We could play madlibs... copy and paste it into MS Word...
find and replace; example Child > replace with > *****.
I'm sure you can think of plenty of humorous words for common nouns, adjectives, and verbs. Perhaps this could make the thread much more enjoyable for the rest of us.
Edited, Wed May 10 02:28:04 2006 by avanent
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I support gil buying.Follow
#303
May 10 2006 at 1:28 AM
ok, this is getting way out of hand. we dont have another poster with 8 ratebots do we?
as usual, there was some crazy following her around and insulting her/making threats.
if everyone around is crazy except for you, well......
this thread has now gone haywire
danger will robinson
as usual, there was some crazy following her around and insulting her/making threats.
if everyone around is crazy except for you, well......
this thread has now gone haywire
danger will robinson
#304
May 10 2006 at 1:32 AM
Alchemist, Monx was the only one making threats. The word "crazy" was used in the same context as "lunatic," not that I had a crazy following of people trailing me around and threatening me. So.. yeah. I can understand that you'd read it the way you did, but that's not the way it was intended. The reaction has been mixed in both directions in this topic so far, and Monx has been the only ridiculous zealot.
Edited, Wed May 10 02:38:13 2006 by CellyO
Edited, Wed May 10 02:38:13 2006 by CellyO
#305
May 10 2006 at 1:39 AM
Yeah I mean just by the general tone of this thread, if you guys didn't make any posts in the server forums i'd just as soon assume that you were being paid by IGE to rationalise gil buying in a public forum.
Thats is all.
Edited, Wed May 10 02:40:40 2006 by blowfin
Thats is all.
Edited, Wed May 10 02:40:40 2006 by blowfin
#306
May 10 2006 at 1:46 AM
I'm going to go ahead and take that as a compliment. If you really think I make a believable paid IGE spindoctor, I'm honestly pretty flattered. Thank you.
#307
May 10 2006 at 1:52 AM
Caes wrote:
What a cop out... You're right you're not good at articulating your point, GalkaAnimal, so just what is your point?
Eh- I've pretty much given up repeating myself. But I'll humor you. My point was, in a nutshell, that RMTs and people that use 3rd party programs are in the same boat. I think I had another point before that, but it's late and I'm tired, and damned if I can remember what it was.
Caes wrote:
What do you support?
I support people that ***** about violations of the ToS equally.
Caes wrote:
Don't you get the concept of all for one?
Yes. Don't you get the concept of personal freedom to choose, or not to choose, to believe in this concept?
Caes wrote:
"Lol, So what? People are selfish, get over it." Uh, right...
Yeah, pretty much.
Caes wrote:
So, are you gonna start busting people for the size of pickles on their hamburgers? 'cause guess what? That's a law, too.
Maybe in your universe.
Caes wrote:
Get your facts straight first and quit trying to derail this off-topic with your nonsense. It's about gilbuying.
Using windower violates ToS. What more do I need to know, really?
If I make a game, and I say people that have red hair are not allowed to play, then that means I can ban you from my game for having red hair. I don't have to get your approval before I enforce that rule. You don't even have to like it.
By the same token, as harmless as using Windower may be, it's still violates ToS. I'm not trying to derail the topic- but merely pointing out that public opinion doesn't enter into a private company's set of terms for participating in a game. Violating ToS is violating ToS. And ToS does not equal government law. But whatever. You either agree with me or you just call me more names. I'm pretty much done with this thread and could care less anymore.
As for RMT negatively affecting the game world- of course it does. But it's not going anywhere. So crying about it is equally pointless. Just as all of these "Goodbye, Alla" threads are. You want to leave? Fine. You want to stop paying for service? Fine. But do it and STFU. I'm tired of hearing about it.
However if you have any ideas for eliminating RMTs in game, I'm sure SE would be all ears.
#308
May 10 2006 at 1:53 AM
Quote:
I'm going to go ahead and take that as a compliment. If you really think I make a believable paid IGE spindoctor, I'm honestly pretty flattered. Thank you.
I wouldn't take it as one...
Paid anonymous endorsing is contrived by definition, and in majority... *********
Edited, Wed May 10 02:55:56 2006 by avanent
#309
May 10 2006 at 1:59 AM
Double false, Avenant. Lobbyists are always some of the most creative debators in the field, otherwise they wouldn't get the job. Corporations don't hire schill sellouts to peddle lies, they hire people skill in wordplay to put a positive spin on their financial interests. It's almost always well-done. Being able to argue anything effectively, whether or not they agree or feel right about it, is the goal of anyone involved in debate. Whether or not they personally agree.
#310
May 10 2006 at 2:06 AM
paid anonymous internet endorsing is not the same as a lobbyist
companies do hire people to promote their product "word of mouth" on the internet, as well as spread bad reviews "word of mouth" abotu their competitors. It's a dirty practice, and I don;t know how many companies bother with it... but I do know it is in practice, and I know a few companies that use the tactic.
Edited, Wed May 10 03:21:10 2006 by avanent
companies do hire people to promote their product "word of mouth" on the internet, as well as spread bad reviews "word of mouth" abotu their competitors. It's a dirty practice, and I don;t know how many companies bother with it... but I do know it is in practice, and I know a few companies that use the tactic.
Edited, Wed May 10 03:21:10 2006 by avanent
#311
May 10 2006 at 2:10 AM
I'm not talking about lobbyists, i'm talking about cash for comments.
Usually it makes the people look like money grabbing idiots when they do it. In your case someone who values status in a video game over real life finances. I'm not sure what your motivation is but you can rest assured that a large amount of your server would now consider you the scum they scrape of their shoes when they step in a freshly laid ****.
Usually it makes the people look like money grabbing idiots when they do it. In your case someone who values status in a video game over real life finances. I'm not sure what your motivation is but you can rest assured that a large amount of your server would now consider you the scum they scrape of their shoes when they step in a freshly laid ****.
#312
May 10 2006 at 2:15 AM
To the OP,
I read your OP and subsequent posts and I just wanted to comment a little bit. First of all:
This frankly isn't true for many players. I have many friends who rarely if ever exp. They maybe have leveled some jobs into the 50's or 60's and either do activities besides exp or only occassionally exp with friends because thats what the game is about to them. I'm not attempting to discredit your argument by this, I'm simply pointing out that this is not the case for everyone. While you may feel you benefit from people who RMT it is not necessarily true that others do.
You have mentioned several times that items never run out on the AH that there are alway some listed. This is for the most part true, however at times items do run out. Leaping boots became in short supply after the expansion, gun belts went from 200k to 2.5 million and you had to camp to pay that price. Even right now there are no peacock charms on the AH. However you're right this isn't the norm. In fact what can and does happen is the supply increases when the demand and price does. There were no leaping boots on the auction house after the expansion, people wanted them for there low level jobs. Leaping boots went from 1.3 million to 3.5 million within 2 days. Everyone was buying them at rediculous prices, however instead of 3-4 selling a day like pre-expansion 10+ were selling a day. Suddenly there were never less 8 boots listed on the AH. Eventually yes the price rebounded, because so many pairs were being listed. Yes this is an item that you can get from bcnm so its supply can be erratic, but I know quite a few people who sold their boots simply because the demand had increased.
Gil buying affects me in a very negative way. Actually the way in which it affects me might benefit others, but from my perspective its still negative (we each have our own bias). I am a high level crafter (in multiple crafts). There was a time when we were few and far between. There was a natural progression of new crafters coming up. Many people give up on crafting though (if you are active in the crafting community you'll know this). Lots of people get to the 50's/60's and it just becomes too expensive to level, the skill ups have slowed down dramatically and it becomes hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel so they quit. However due to RMT what now can and does happen (I see it all too often on the boards and in the game) is people buy gil to level their craft. They believe that its not so bad because they are just buying gil so that they can make gil later on and never have to buy it again. They level it up (its not hard if you have lots of gil) and then they compete with me. YOu clearly have some economics savvy and so I think we can both agree that if you increase the number of producers the margins go down. The more competition I face the slimmer it gets. Now I have 100 million gil that I worked 2 years to earn invested into goldsmithing so that I can sell level 14 stat rings for 10k profit. There are some other synths, but most require AH camping to get the materials because there are many people who want it.
Now since you have contended that players who do not work for gil will just stay gimp if they couldn't buy money. I will content (from quite a bit of experience) that people who have limited money supplies and no means to make gil will typically give up on crafting. Certainly not always, but I would hope that we could agree that just as some players wouldn't buy the SH+1 if they couldn't afford it with irl money some wouldn't level crafting. The competition hurts margins, it discourages crafting even moreso which is a large reason of why I enjoy the game (we each get something different out of it). Is this good for the consumer? Probably, but again you are pro gil selling because it might mean more exp/hr which is your own agenda, and this is mine.
You have acknowledged that gil buying might hurt some other players so I will leave it at this one example. You might want to counter that because of extra competition I have to pay less for items so its okay that I make less. This is true to an extent, but not everything is crafted, and often the lost margin is from an increase in material cost (although sometimes an decrease in final product price).
As to the flaw in your argument (as has been pointed out in other posts) you quite frankly don't need expensive gear to get tons of experience. A bard in the party alone I think of as adding about 10+ million gil to every players equipment setup. We now have corsair as other support options. Even without a bard there is plenty of good equip. There are tons of players out there who do poorly not because of their equipment but rather because of their playstyle. I see the players using peacock charm, haubergon +1, snipers, etc. and then I see them pop sushi and I want to cry. I see players who don't pay attention and don't engage for the first 10-15 seconds of fights. I see rdms who don't stick to a good refresh cycle, whms who don't haste. If I had my choice I'd take the whm wearing AF who hastes the melee over the whm in the noble's who doesn't (I know nothing prevents the noble's tunic whm form hasting, but come on how often do whms haste?). There are so many ways to speed up exp with buying a good combination of gear instead of 1337 gear. Might in some instances exp be sped up by the party members buying gil? Sure, I can't deny that. However there is no reason people can't get great exp with mediocre gear. Its still quite possible to get horrible exp playing with people who buy gil. If you want good exp party with friends. Pickups will always be a mixed bag, even if people bought gil. Party with friends who know what they are doing and you certainly don't need the best stuff to always pull 5k+. If you're miserable partying with friends making 5k+ an hour maybe ffxi has lost your interest.
I read your OP and subsequent posts and I just wanted to comment a little bit. First of all:
Quote:
But, the bottom line, the overriding factor of this game, is how much EXP you get per hour.
This frankly isn't true for many players. I have many friends who rarely if ever exp. They maybe have leveled some jobs into the 50's or 60's and either do activities besides exp or only occassionally exp with friends because thats what the game is about to them. I'm not attempting to discredit your argument by this, I'm simply pointing out that this is not the case for everyone. While you may feel you benefit from people who RMT it is not necessarily true that others do.
You have mentioned several times that items never run out on the AH that there are alway some listed. This is for the most part true, however at times items do run out. Leaping boots became in short supply after the expansion, gun belts went from 200k to 2.5 million and you had to camp to pay that price. Even right now there are no peacock charms on the AH. However you're right this isn't the norm. In fact what can and does happen is the supply increases when the demand and price does. There were no leaping boots on the auction house after the expansion, people wanted them for there low level jobs. Leaping boots went from 1.3 million to 3.5 million within 2 days. Everyone was buying them at rediculous prices, however instead of 3-4 selling a day like pre-expansion 10+ were selling a day. Suddenly there were never less 8 boots listed on the AH. Eventually yes the price rebounded, because so many pairs were being listed. Yes this is an item that you can get from bcnm so its supply can be erratic, but I know quite a few people who sold their boots simply because the demand had increased.
Gil buying affects me in a very negative way. Actually the way in which it affects me might benefit others, but from my perspective its still negative (we each have our own bias). I am a high level crafter (in multiple crafts). There was a time when we were few and far between. There was a natural progression of new crafters coming up. Many people give up on crafting though (if you are active in the crafting community you'll know this). Lots of people get to the 50's/60's and it just becomes too expensive to level, the skill ups have slowed down dramatically and it becomes hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel so they quit. However due to RMT what now can and does happen (I see it all too often on the boards and in the game) is people buy gil to level their craft. They believe that its not so bad because they are just buying gil so that they can make gil later on and never have to buy it again. They level it up (its not hard if you have lots of gil) and then they compete with me. YOu clearly have some economics savvy and so I think we can both agree that if you increase the number of producers the margins go down. The more competition I face the slimmer it gets. Now I have 100 million gil that I worked 2 years to earn invested into goldsmithing so that I can sell level 14 stat rings for 10k profit. There are some other synths, but most require AH camping to get the materials because there are many people who want it.
Now since you have contended that players who do not work for gil will just stay gimp if they couldn't buy money. I will content (from quite a bit of experience) that people who have limited money supplies and no means to make gil will typically give up on crafting. Certainly not always, but I would hope that we could agree that just as some players wouldn't buy the SH+1 if they couldn't afford it with irl money some wouldn't level crafting. The competition hurts margins, it discourages crafting even moreso which is a large reason of why I enjoy the game (we each get something different out of it). Is this good for the consumer? Probably, but again you are pro gil selling because it might mean more exp/hr which is your own agenda, and this is mine.
You have acknowledged that gil buying might hurt some other players so I will leave it at this one example. You might want to counter that because of extra competition I have to pay less for items so its okay that I make less. This is true to an extent, but not everything is crafted, and often the lost margin is from an increase in material cost (although sometimes an decrease in final product price).
As to the flaw in your argument (as has been pointed out in other posts) you quite frankly don't need expensive gear to get tons of experience. A bard in the party alone I think of as adding about 10+ million gil to every players equipment setup. We now have corsair as other support options. Even without a bard there is plenty of good equip. There are tons of players out there who do poorly not because of their equipment but rather because of their playstyle. I see the players using peacock charm, haubergon +1, snipers, etc. and then I see them pop sushi and I want to cry. I see players who don't pay attention and don't engage for the first 10-15 seconds of fights. I see rdms who don't stick to a good refresh cycle, whms who don't haste. If I had my choice I'd take the whm wearing AF who hastes the melee over the whm in the noble's who doesn't (I know nothing prevents the noble's tunic whm form hasting, but come on how often do whms haste?). There are so many ways to speed up exp with buying a good combination of gear instead of 1337 gear. Might in some instances exp be sped up by the party members buying gil? Sure, I can't deny that. However there is no reason people can't get great exp with mediocre gear. Its still quite possible to get horrible exp playing with people who buy gil. If you want good exp party with friends. Pickups will always be a mixed bag, even if people bought gil. Party with friends who know what they are doing and you certainly don't need the best stuff to always pull 5k+. If you're miserable partying with friends making 5k+ an hour maybe ffxi has lost your interest.
#313
May 10 2006 at 4:15 AM
Gweivyth wrote:
Also, CellyO never denied what gil buying was. She said she supported it and its repercussions in favor of avoiding what would be without it there. Again, you exploited this to death in order to make a fool of yourself. Kudos to you, Ronald.
Don't you mean Richard?
Gweivyth wrote:
Baron von Fhqwghads, I don't know who you're trying to kid. If RMT was gone, there would be crazy players camping and botting that stuff for gil.
Instead, there are crazy RMT camping and botting. What you fail to understand, is a NORMAL player doesn't cheat, doesn't bot, doesn't camp an NM 24 hours a day.
Gweivyth wrote:
And no, if gil sellers never went and camped certain items, it wouldn't be on the auction house even close to as much. A lot of people would avoid going to get it. Not even everyone CAN go get it, because of how the game works. There are plenty of gamers who play games lazily. Not everyone is a back-breaking, accomplishment craving player. Hardly. You know this.
If no RMT monopolized the items, legitamate players could camp the drop themselves, for that one drop they needed. A lot of people avoid going to get it BECAUSE RMT HAVE ALREADY MONOPOLIZED IT. If they pissed off, legit players would NOT camp it 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Things would return to the way SE designed them. Laziness seems to be your excuse for RMT. If you are lazy, you don't deserve good items or a high level. These things you work for, you earn. If you are lazy, buying gil will make you poor and lazy, NOT a good player.
Gweivyth wrote:
In the case of when people can go get things, they would still be monopolized by real players trying to make money. Don't tell me you've never run into an English-speaking person, or even someone you know, competing on a spawn for gil. Please, it's rampant.
Have you met a legitimate camper who camps 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? If not, they are not monopolising, and your point is invalid.
Gweivyth wrote:
If people were too lazy to go spend hours getting an item, and gil selling didn't exist, there would be a lot of what we call gimp players running around.
Lazy gilbuyer=gimp in my book.
Gweivyth wrote:
Without gil buying, lazy players will be gimps, hard-working players won't. With gil buying, some lazy players will be gimps, hard-working players won't. You people have mutated it into something completely different. How, I don't know.
By 'hard-working' you mean 'not cheating' right? I am a hard working player and gilselling makes it MUCH more difficult for me to get good equipment. I suppose you are a lazy player, and have never tried to get items that RMT camp 24/7? They are a blasted curse on this game, and make it much more difficult for a legitimate, hard-working player to get where they want, not to mention the direct inflation caused (eg. Christmas Sales) and indirect inflation from monopoly items that they can set at whatever price they wish.
Gweivyth wrote:
If your grudge against gil selling is that people don't earn their items the same way as you, and not against economic problems, that's a completely different story. That's very, extremely opinionated and not everyone is obligated to care. It's been stated multiple times throughout this thread that everyone's way of enjoying the game is different. Not everyone wants to feel a sense of accomplishment, and I'd expect you to know that. Some people just like to EXP and fight things.
So you play not for accomplishment, but disappointment? You still play the game, but where is the satisfaction? Where is the enjoyment in cheating? Cheating is pointless, stupid and above all detracts from the enjoyment of legitimate players.
Gweivyth wrote:
On this level, it's the same as getting upset with someone who uses cheat codes on a single-player game.
No, I just pity the poor fools who think they beat DOOM when they had god mode on and collision detection turned off. Pathetic players like this should stop gaming and just go watch a movie or something else non-challenging and non-interactive.
Cellyo wrote:
"I acknowledge that gil buying does hurt players, but I feel that it has a positive effect on EXP parties, and in my mind that's a worthy tradeoff."
How does hurting players have a positive effect on anything? You now have a party member who cheated to the detriment of the rest of the party. His uber gear won't make up for the fact that he's a lazy cheating piece of *****, or the inderect damage to the rest of the party, who probably couldn't afford all the uber gear the cheater has because of RMT monopolies. To have a positive effect on an element while corrupting the whole is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Cellyo wrote:
I mentioned a case of an honest player leaving the game because of Christmas inflation, which was caused 100% by gil buying.
I wholeheartedly said ... that gil buyers can hurt the economy and damage innocent players.
I wholeheartedly said ... that gil buyers can hurt the economy and damage innocent players.
I'm sure that helps your party. Hard working players quitting, innocent players being negatively affected so they can't get the good gear and are labelled 'gimp' by morons like you.
Cellyo wrote:
I told you in my first post that there are downfalls, I named the downfalls, I explained them in great detail, and my overall conclusion was that my EXP was more important to me. Not that it was fine to buy gil. I encouraged people to do what they had to do to improve their characters.
By stating 'do what they had to do' you are inferring 'buy gil', and you believe all the negatives like good players quitting, hard working players unable to camp or afford items doesn't negatively affect your EXP? How can you not see they make the playerbase as a whole less effective?
Cellyo wrote:
You can't possibly assert that there are only negative effects to gil buying, so don't even try. My EXP argument is forever valid that there are, in fact, upsides to this, and depending on where your priorities lie, gil buying may not be such a bad thing for you.
Not bad for you, just bad for everyone else. This game reqires co-operation like no other, someone who will drag down everyone else to prop themselves up is a parasite, and there is NOTHING good for the community as a whole about buying gil, only the individual.
Cellyo wrote:
... Start over and play the game legitimately? Are you joking? Are you telling me you've never, ever partied with a gil buyer? You don't even have a clue where a person's money came from, all you can go by is word of mouth. The fact that a gil buyer is or isn't "known," is irrelevant. I told you in my first post that I never ask questions, and I, too, am going on assumptions as to which of my party members buy gil. There's no conclusive evidence to prove or disprove the legitimacy of anyone's items unless they personally come out and tell you.
I may have patried with a gilbuyer, hell I might have partied with a seller, I don't know for sure. All I know is I don't want to party with either, and if someone admits it they will get a /blist. I also know they ***** with the game so badly I want them all rounded up and banned.
[quote=Cellyo]If we're judging the legitimacy of someone's accomplishments soley on the merit of never being near gil buyers, we're all guilty. Some of us just have the nerve to acknowledge it as a non-issue.[/quote]
Some can ignore the issue, but I can proudly state I have never knowingly accomplished anything in game with the help of gilbuyers or sellers, and know for a fact I have been hindered on several occasions by gilsellers.
[quote=Cellyo]The most I can do is say that I empathize with the plight of people who are slightly hurt by gil buying, but don't feel the bad outweighs the good.[/quote]
You say 'slightly' hurt? You are delusional. The benefits detract from EVERY player who doesn't buy into the RMT scene. The benefits go to ONE player. How does the detriment of the entire legitimate community weigh against the benifit to the individual?
[quote=Cellyo]Support doesn't mean unwaivering faith that what you're supporting is okay, sometimes it boils down to what works to your advantage. This, as I've specified, does decidedly that.[/quote]
You can see the direct benefits easily, while ignoring the indirect consequences. It's not seeing the forest for the trees. Look at the whole picture, not just an isolated exp party.
#314
May 10 2006 at 4:58 AM
Gweivyth wrote:
Baron von Fhqwghads, I don't know who you're trying to kid. If RMT was gone, there would be crazy players camping and botting that stuff for gil.
CellyO wrote:
To the guy with the boxer as his avatar. I never, EVER said gil buying was okay, ever. I said that I support it. People support abortion, people supported the **** regime. Support doesn't mean what you're supporting is right or wholesome, give it a rest. The world is not black and white, we've got to deal in shades of gray if we're going to make sense. Support doesn't mean unwaivering faith that what you're supporting is okay, sometimes it boils down to what works to your advantage. This, as I've specified, does decidedly that. Therefore I support it, whether or not it's okay. Okay?
CellyO wrote:
Maybe if you stopped writing everything off as drivel, you'd have gotten this by now.
#315
May 10 2006 at 9:37 AM
Scholar
37 posts
MonxDoT... Maybe you didn't notice but I've been indirectly supporting you this entire thread. So, you've let me down, in failing to realize that when I said you can't argue opinions, I'm referring to many of the other posters concerned with whether buying gil is right or wrong. Everyone has their reasons as to why it's right or wrong, as does everyone have their own ethics/morals/justice system, etc. But I'm supprised to see you take a defense against my legit claim. Now... I'm not arguing with you in anyway, but you should know that I do agree with everything you bring to the table, and I support it entirely.
Now, if you take the statement I made, and applied it to your argument... yes, it is wrong. Everything you have written is correct, whether CellyO agree's or not. It's not her fault she lead herself to believe she is superior, It's not your fault she has made herself deaf, dumb, and blind to the effects and affects of gil buying/selling. Arguing with her wont change her mind, she's stubborn and for some reason believe that she is correct. She's the product of her own stupidity and stubbornness... And to put it plainly? She's not going to change. You can throw raw, black and white facts at her and she'll denie it because she doesn't believe that it is correct, as long as she still see's it another way. I personally wouldnt bother arguing with her.
Now, if you take the statement I made, and applied it to your argument... yes, it is wrong. Everything you have written is correct, whether CellyO agree's or not. It's not her fault she lead herself to believe she is superior, It's not your fault she has made herself deaf, dumb, and blind to the effects and affects of gil buying/selling. Arguing with her wont change her mind, she's stubborn and for some reason believe that she is correct. She's the product of her own stupidity and stubbornness... And to put it plainly? She's not going to change. You can throw raw, black and white facts at her and she'll denie it because she doesn't believe that it is correct, as long as she still see's it another way. I personally wouldnt bother arguing with her.
#316
May 10 2006 at 9:39 AM
Message has high abuse count and will not be displayed.
#317
May 10 2006 at 9:47 AM
Nazlfrag:
No, I don't mean Richard. I called the insulting guy I was arguing with a clown, and eventually started calling him Ronald (after Ronald McDonald).
I haven't failed to understand anything you've mentioned. You've missed people saying it time and time again. We know the gil sellers are there doing it. We know it's an issue. We also know that people would definitely be there doing it if gil sellers wouldn't. Whether or not a player is actually there "24/7" doesn't mean they can't spend 8 hours a day doing it anyway. It doesn't mean they aren't monopolizing a great portion of that drop. Someone else will be there when he/she is doing it, and that someone will move in and continue to do it, too.
It just isn't true to say that people would go compete for items if gil sellers were there. They wouldn't, because there would be other known farmers there, or it would be known that the spot is a hot spot for camping. On my server, for example, people don't usually go after Peacock Amulet because there are still people there crowding the room for a free Peacock Charm.
I actually do derive satisfaction from earning my items. Most of them are drops, and I enjoy rare/ex armor. You seem to think that both CellyO and I support gil buying because we buy some. First of all, it's not me who supports it, it's her. I don't care if it's in the game or not. Second, neither of us buy any gil, and neither of us cares if you don't believe us, and I'd like you to cry me a river if you still think we buy it.
My entire point is that, despite what I enjoy in the game and how I feel about it, I simply have more sympathy for the fact that there are mixed feelings on the subject. I don't see a need for people to insult each other over it. You disagree with each other on a simple ethic, big deal. It's an opinion and I wish people would see that. Buying gil is seriously not akin to all of these heinous crimes that people propose. It's not rape. It's not murder. It's not molestation. It's gil buying. If you want to talk about gil buying, it's gil buying. I'm really tired of seeing people reach into deep values, insults, and the outside world to combat the opinions of other players instead of providing harmless, legitimate analogies, debating the actual subject, and keeping it clean. That's how you change someone's mind. That's why I'm posting here. Accept it.
To Baron von Fhqwghads:
I wrote that. I think you skimmed through it somehow. I clearly stated that I may be misunderstanding your angle, and I don't know if it's that you hate cheating and illegitimacy or if you have a problem with the economic repercussions.
It's fine that you hate cheaters and want things only to circulate through legitimate players. My only issue with you is that you're kind of offensive to people about this. Your stance seems to be very black and white. CellyO has posted her reasoning as to why she disagrees with you. It's the same concept that not everyone cares that someone cheated at DOOM to get through the game. People are seriously entitled to their own opinion and it's going too far to berate them for it. Whether or not you think something is "wrong," it doesn't mean everyone else thinks it's so wrong that they care about it. I'm not comparing it to gil selling, but another example of this is people stealing 5 cent candy from the super market. Lots of 13 year old kids do it. Most people would prefer they not, it's "wrong," but most people don't really care.
A lot of people see gil buying/selling as a necessary evil. Just because you don't, it doesn't mean that:
a) You're absolutely, 100% correct because..
b) It's an opinion.
If you do hate the economic issues that gil selling causes, it's still not a reason to be offensive about it. I addressed Nazlfrag with this above.
Kwontos is an extremely good example of the kind of post that I'd like to see between people. He doesn't stop to try and make CellyO out to be a loser, feel like a ******, or generally waste time insulting her when he could be and is just trying to get his point across like a general human being. And although I disagree with his stance on equipment, I'm not here to debate that. At least not right now. I'm just glad he was civilized.
Finally, yes, it may be your opinion that it's okay to be an *** to someone who disagrees with you, but I disagree with this base fundamental. The only time I condone being a jerk directly is when someone did the same to you. Out and obvious. Someone isn't automatically a jerk, especially not to you individually, because they bought gil. If you think they're in the wrong, you don't have to be a jerk to tell them. If you just can't level with me on that one then I completely don't know what to tell you. It's simple disagreement.
No, I don't mean Richard. I called the insulting guy I was arguing with a clown, and eventually started calling him Ronald (after Ronald McDonald).
I haven't failed to understand anything you've mentioned. You've missed people saying it time and time again. We know the gil sellers are there doing it. We know it's an issue. We also know that people would definitely be there doing it if gil sellers wouldn't. Whether or not a player is actually there "24/7" doesn't mean they can't spend 8 hours a day doing it anyway. It doesn't mean they aren't monopolizing a great portion of that drop. Someone else will be there when he/she is doing it, and that someone will move in and continue to do it, too.
It just isn't true to say that people would go compete for items if gil sellers were there. They wouldn't, because there would be other known farmers there, or it would be known that the spot is a hot spot for camping. On my server, for example, people don't usually go after Peacock Amulet because there are still people there crowding the room for a free Peacock Charm.
I actually do derive satisfaction from earning my items. Most of them are drops, and I enjoy rare/ex armor. You seem to think that both CellyO and I support gil buying because we buy some. First of all, it's not me who supports it, it's her. I don't care if it's in the game or not. Second, neither of us buy any gil, and neither of us cares if you don't believe us, and I'd like you to cry me a river if you still think we buy it.
My entire point is that, despite what I enjoy in the game and how I feel about it, I simply have more sympathy for the fact that there are mixed feelings on the subject. I don't see a need for people to insult each other over it. You disagree with each other on a simple ethic, big deal. It's an opinion and I wish people would see that. Buying gil is seriously not akin to all of these heinous crimes that people propose. It's not rape. It's not murder. It's not molestation. It's gil buying. If you want to talk about gil buying, it's gil buying. I'm really tired of seeing people reach into deep values, insults, and the outside world to combat the opinions of other players instead of providing harmless, legitimate analogies, debating the actual subject, and keeping it clean. That's how you change someone's mind. That's why I'm posting here. Accept it.
To Baron von Fhqwghads:
Quote:
If your grudge against gil selling is that people don't earn their items the same way as you, and not against economic problems, that's a completely different story. That's very, extremely opinionated and not everyone is obligated to care. It's been stated multiple times throughout this thread that everyone's way of enjoying the game is different. Not everyone wants to feel a sense of accomplishment, and I'd expect you to know that. Some people just like to EXP and fight things.
On this level, it's the same as getting upset with someone who uses cheat codes on a single-player game. You're trying to enforce your method of self-gratification on others, which is a little too much. This all is, if you really have issues with how people get their items and not with what gil selling does for or against the economy.
On this level, it's the same as getting upset with someone who uses cheat codes on a single-player game. You're trying to enforce your method of self-gratification on others, which is a little too much. This all is, if you really have issues with how people get their items and not with what gil selling does for or against the economy.
I wrote that. I think you skimmed through it somehow. I clearly stated that I may be misunderstanding your angle, and I don't know if it's that you hate cheating and illegitimacy or if you have a problem with the economic repercussions.
It's fine that you hate cheaters and want things only to circulate through legitimate players. My only issue with you is that you're kind of offensive to people about this. Your stance seems to be very black and white. CellyO has posted her reasoning as to why she disagrees with you. It's the same concept that not everyone cares that someone cheated at DOOM to get through the game. People are seriously entitled to their own opinion and it's going too far to berate them for it. Whether or not you think something is "wrong," it doesn't mean everyone else thinks it's so wrong that they care about it. I'm not comparing it to gil selling, but another example of this is people stealing 5 cent candy from the super market. Lots of 13 year old kids do it. Most people would prefer they not, it's "wrong," but most people don't really care.
A lot of people see gil buying/selling as a necessary evil. Just because you don't, it doesn't mean that:
a) You're absolutely, 100% correct because..
b) It's an opinion.
If you do hate the economic issues that gil selling causes, it's still not a reason to be offensive about it. I addressed Nazlfrag with this above.
Kwontos is an extremely good example of the kind of post that I'd like to see between people. He doesn't stop to try and make CellyO out to be a loser, feel like a ******, or generally waste time insulting her when he could be and is just trying to get his point across like a general human being. And although I disagree with his stance on equipment, I'm not here to debate that. At least not right now. I'm just glad he was civilized.
Finally, yes, it may be your opinion that it's okay to be an *** to someone who disagrees with you, but I disagree with this base fundamental. The only time I condone being a jerk directly is when someone did the same to you. Out and obvious. Someone isn't automatically a jerk, especially not to you individually, because they bought gil. If you think they're in the wrong, you don't have to be a jerk to tell them. If you just can't level with me on that one then I completely don't know what to tell you. It's simple disagreement.
#318
May 10 2006 at 9:51 AM
I think there's a lot of misplaced blame when it comes to RMT.
Buying gil is pretty lame, but I do not blame people too badly for it. Gil sellers suck when they camp a mob 24/7, or take up areas for farming and such. It can get extremely frustrating. I have tried to compete with them on items I've wanted and watched their underhanded tactics and exploitations. But while a problem, they are not the problem at it's core. The game mechanics and design are the problem. I'm sure some people are skeptical, let me explain why I say this;
What do you really expect to happen in a game where the grind is hard, with very small allowable level gaps for grouping, and very minute gear options per class? FFXI is not the first game to have RMT troubles, but it is the game with the worst (possibly tied with L2, but for different reasons). FFXI at it's core, is a grind. Grind for levels, grind for missions, grind for money to do the previous two. Everything is in limited supply, and if you look carefully, specifically designed to take extreme ammounts of time and money to progress at all. This is nothing new for an MMORPG, but FFXI seems to have all of it the worse possible side of time sink.
So we take this concept of time sink grind with a narrow window of equipment, stir. you get the makings for what we have today, a rabid fan base this is elitist about their play time, their parties, and selfishness to be matched by none. we take our elitist fan base, and we throw into the mix people that figured out what any moron could: he who controls what this fan base wants stands to make a lot of money.
SE if they really wanted to have several ways to curb the obviously rampant RMT they have in their game. One is the one most people want. They could start swinging the banstick, and swinging hard. Not stopping untill they've gotten every last one of them, and a few innocents along the way. Hey, there's always some innocent casualties in a war.
They started to experiment with the other option, but stopped for no appearant reason. Alternate gear and progression options. Rare/Ex versions of the items in addition to adding the regular drops to BCNMs was a great way to relive some of the pressure from RMT and bring inflation back down. why they did not continue with this trend I will NEVER understand. Think about it. if there were Rare/Ex version of O.Kote's, Scorpion Harnesses (harnii?) or any of the other high ticket items we see today? what if these items not only had multiple versions, but multiple ways to get them? Imagine a game where Mobs or Guilds or Mining Points can't be controlled by a few individuals! Why does SE not do this?
The core problem is game design, and the symptom is drastic RMT. SE does not fix it because to fix it would mean to ease off on their grind. Instead they use RMT to their advantage. What better way to take heat off of themselves than to pass the buck off on some people trying to make... well a buck? If everyone had a chance to get the items they felt they needed (this would be a related essay on the player mindset I should publish one day) how long before people complain of drop rates or pop times or failure rates on synths, or imbalance of trade skills? they avoid this scenario by having a very easy scapegoat. We players can't get the items because of the evil RMT, but SE is trying!
I don't blame people that buy gil because in most cases what you hear are people doing it not to be better than you, or feel superior (there are those that do that, but they are clearly not the majority) but just to keep up and have fun with their hobby that they may or may not have the time you or I or others have. Especially with so much more of the game being a timesink itself.
I continue to hope for all people (and this game) SE eventually do decide to do something about it. Something real, and not posturing.
Buying gil is pretty lame, but I do not blame people too badly for it. Gil sellers suck when they camp a mob 24/7, or take up areas for farming and such. It can get extremely frustrating. I have tried to compete with them on items I've wanted and watched their underhanded tactics and exploitations. But while a problem, they are not the problem at it's core. The game mechanics and design are the problem. I'm sure some people are skeptical, let me explain why I say this;
What do you really expect to happen in a game where the grind is hard, with very small allowable level gaps for grouping, and very minute gear options per class? FFXI is not the first game to have RMT troubles, but it is the game with the worst (possibly tied with L2, but for different reasons). FFXI at it's core, is a grind. Grind for levels, grind for missions, grind for money to do the previous two. Everything is in limited supply, and if you look carefully, specifically designed to take extreme ammounts of time and money to progress at all. This is nothing new for an MMORPG, but FFXI seems to have all of it the worse possible side of time sink.
So we take this concept of time sink grind with a narrow window of equipment, stir. you get the makings for what we have today, a rabid fan base this is elitist about their play time, their parties, and selfishness to be matched by none. we take our elitist fan base, and we throw into the mix people that figured out what any moron could: he who controls what this fan base wants stands to make a lot of money.
SE if they really wanted to have several ways to curb the obviously rampant RMT they have in their game. One is the one most people want. They could start swinging the banstick, and swinging hard. Not stopping untill they've gotten every last one of them, and a few innocents along the way. Hey, there's always some innocent casualties in a war.
They started to experiment with the other option, but stopped for no appearant reason. Alternate gear and progression options. Rare/Ex versions of the items in addition to adding the regular drops to BCNMs was a great way to relive some of the pressure from RMT and bring inflation back down. why they did not continue with this trend I will NEVER understand. Think about it. if there were Rare/Ex version of O.Kote's, Scorpion Harnesses (harnii?) or any of the other high ticket items we see today? what if these items not only had multiple versions, but multiple ways to get them? Imagine a game where Mobs or Guilds or Mining Points can't be controlled by a few individuals! Why does SE not do this?
The core problem is game design, and the symptom is drastic RMT. SE does not fix it because to fix it would mean to ease off on their grind. Instead they use RMT to their advantage. What better way to take heat off of themselves than to pass the buck off on some people trying to make... well a buck? If everyone had a chance to get the items they felt they needed (this would be a related essay on the player mindset I should publish one day) how long before people complain of drop rates or pop times or failure rates on synths, or imbalance of trade skills? they avoid this scenario by having a very easy scapegoat. We players can't get the items because of the evil RMT, but SE is trying!
I don't blame people that buy gil because in most cases what you hear are people doing it not to be better than you, or feel superior (there are those that do that, but they are clearly not the majority) but just to keep up and have fun with their hobby that they may or may not have the time you or I or others have. Especially with so much more of the game being a timesink itself.
I continue to hope for all people (and this game) SE eventually do decide to do something about it. Something real, and not posturing.
#319
May 10 2006 at 9:58 AM
To MonxDoT:
You moron. You just repeated yourself to the things I disproved. You are easily the most retarded person I have had the pleasure of meeting for a long, long time. You can't even interpret simple rhetoric, something you think you're an expert with. I'm not going to bother and analyze why, because I'm bored of your offensive retardation.
You live in your own little world and think that once you say something, you are correct, and that you should try to insult people with it. I simply can't drill it into your skull that you don't understand what you're talking about. You're sitting there saying 2+2 is 5 when someone is showing you two pairs of something together is clearly 4. I told you that you can only help yourself in this regard. Stop talking and start thinking. The only person hearing it is you, either way.
Maybe you should go back and read what she said about you putting words in her mouth. Moron.
Let me spell it out for YOU:
WRONG. I'm not even going to explain why again. You just don't get it. You're a lost cause, you troll. Thanks for the fun.
Edit: I wanted to address who this was to, although I imagine it'd be obvious by now.
Edited, Wed May 10 10:58:49 2006 by Gweivyth
You moron. You just repeated yourself to the things I disproved. You are easily the most retarded person I have had the pleasure of meeting for a long, long time. You can't even interpret simple rhetoric, something you think you're an expert with. I'm not going to bother and analyze why, because I'm bored of your offensive retardation.
You live in your own little world and think that once you say something, you are correct, and that you should try to insult people with it. I simply can't drill it into your skull that you don't understand what you're talking about. You're sitting there saying 2+2 is 5 when someone is showing you two pairs of something together is clearly 4. I told you that you can only help yourself in this regard. Stop talking and start thinking. The only person hearing it is you, either way.
Quote:
Even CellyO disagrees with you here.
Maybe you should go back and read what she said about you putting words in her mouth. Moron.
Let me spell it out for YOU:
Quote:
Different people will be well equipped and other different people will be less well equipped. The net change in well equipped people will be zero.
WRONG. I'm not even going to explain why again. You just don't get it. You're a lost cause, you troll. Thanks for the fun.
Edit: I wanted to address who this was to, although I imagine it'd be obvious by now.
Edited, Wed May 10 10:58:49 2006 by Gweivyth
#320
May 10 2006 at 10:11 AM
Gweivyth you are the troll who is contriubting nothing substantive and admittedly only chiming in to "help your friend". She's smarter than you and doesn't need any of your dumbass help. You are a pure admitted troll to this thread, just blocking useful informative debate with your garbage posts. GTFO the way, sit down, and STFU.
#321
May 10 2006 at 10:20 AM
Seven pages, and you guys still haven't figured out that gil selling is bad for everyone that plays the game...how sad.
Breaking the ToS is bad. Selling gil is bad. Buying gil is bad. Rather simple when you break it down.
I know, that some of the arguments have been hard for you guys to understand it seems...so I broke it down for you. Hopefully you can understand simple. There is right and wrong everywhere. Gil buying is wrong. Gil selling is wrong. Breaking the ToS is wrong, and there isn't one single example that you can tell me it's right, so please, save the idiotic arguments for people that live in your bell with you.
Breaking the ToS is bad. Selling gil is bad. Buying gil is bad. Rather simple when you break it down.
I know, that some of the arguments have been hard for you guys to understand it seems...so I broke it down for you. Hopefully you can understand simple. There is right and wrong everywhere. Gil buying is wrong. Gil selling is wrong. Breaking the ToS is wrong, and there isn't one single example that you can tell me it's right, so please, save the idiotic arguments for people that live in your bell with you.
#322
May 10 2006 at 10:26 AM
You're hilarious. You really are.
I'm not trying to help my friend, I'm trying to make you out for the waste of flesh you really are. You keep sitting there talking to yourself whenever she answers you.
You don't realize she doesn't give a damn about your anti-gil selling examples. You don't realize that half of your lame-*** examples aren't even complete. Not once, not ONE TIME have you defeated her stance. Her stance was an opinion, you idiot. You still think that your theorizing about how many people have equipment is correct, when it's not. You ommitted the human margin in the equation and you can't admit it. You DARE tell me to shut my mouth about the economy, when you sit there spouting self-contradicting nonsense that only even exists in one state of time.
You call CellyO cowardly for hiding behind the diction of these posts when you are quite clearly doing the same, albeit, nowhere near her level of doing so. She's actually doing it to a legitimate effect, whereas you are just looking like a ****** who can only read things as he wants to read them. You still won't address that it was completely unnecessary for you to be an asshole, you coward. You made one pathetic little statement about how people deserve to be assaulted because you're superior to them. "GTFO."
Here's a falsehood for you:
Good job trying to turn us against each other by comparing our intelligence. Your sneakiness blows my mind.
The weakness of your argument shone through the moment you decided to try to insult and threaten her, the original post, before she even addressed you. You're the coward here. You're the troll. You've lost. Give up, and find a new life's work more suited to you; like being a lab rat.
I'm getting bored of you now, though. I'll grant your wish, although not through the reasoning you would prefer. Sorry. I'll let CellyO finish you off whenever she comes back to this forum, because you're right - she needs no one's help to destroy you. Which she has done repeatedly.
Edit: Corrected a typo in one of the lab rat's token essay fillers for him.
Edited, Wed May 10 11:49:19 2006 by Gweivyth
I'm not trying to help my friend, I'm trying to make you out for the waste of flesh you really are. You keep sitting there talking to yourself whenever she answers you.
You don't realize she doesn't give a damn about your anti-gil selling examples. You don't realize that half of your lame-*** examples aren't even complete. Not once, not ONE TIME have you defeated her stance. Her stance was an opinion, you idiot. You still think that your theorizing about how many people have equipment is correct, when it's not. You ommitted the human margin in the equation and you can't admit it. You DARE tell me to shut my mouth about the economy, when you sit there spouting self-contradicting nonsense that only even exists in one state of time.
You call CellyO cowardly for hiding behind the diction of these posts when you are quite clearly doing the same, albeit, nowhere near her level of doing so. She's actually doing it to a legitimate effect, whereas you are just looking like a ****** who can only read things as he wants to read them. You still won't address that it was completely unnecessary for you to be an asshole, you coward. You made one pathetic little statement about how people deserve to be assaulted because you're superior to them. "GTFO."
Here's a falsehood for you:
Good job trying to turn us against each other by comparing our intelligence. Your sneakiness blows my mind.
The weakness of your argument shone through the moment you decided to try to insult and threaten her, the original post, before she even addressed you. You're the coward here. You're the troll. You've lost. Give up, and find a new life's work more suited to you; like being a lab rat.
I'm getting bored of you now, though. I'll grant your wish, although not through the reasoning you would prefer. Sorry. I'll let CellyO finish you off whenever she comes back to this forum, because you're right - she needs no one's help to destroy you. Which she has done repeatedly.
Edit: Corrected a typo in one of the lab rat's token essay fillers for him.
Edited, Wed May 10 11:49:19 2006 by Gweivyth
#323
May 10 2006 at 10:34 AM
Quote:
I haven't failed to understand anything you've mentioned. You've missed people saying it time and time again. We know the gil sellers are there doing it. We know it's an issue. We also know that people would definitely be there doing it if gil sellers wouldn't. Whether or not a player is actually there "24/7" doesn't mean they can't spend 8 hours a day doing it anyway. It doesn't mean they aren't monopolizing a great portion of that drop. Someone else will be there when he/she is doing it, and that someone will move in and continue to do it, too.
I call BS on 'I'm not a gilbuyer' for a couple of reasons, namely,
Quote:
I actually do derive satisfaction from earning my items. Most of them are drops, and I enjoy rare/ex armor. You seem to think that both CellyO and I support gil buying because we buy some. First of all, it's not me who supports it, it's her. I don't care if it's in the game or not. Second, neither of us buy any gil, and neither of us cares if you don't believe us, and I'd like you to cry me a river if you still think we buy it.
...I don't see a need for people to insult each other over it. You disagree with each other on a simple ethic, big deal. It's an opinion and I wish people would see that.
...I don't see a need for people to insult each other over it. You disagree with each other on a simple ethic, big deal. It's an opinion and I wish people would see that.
It's not opinion, it is fact. Gilsellers/gilbuyers ruin the game experience, no matter how you sychophants twist it. Tell it to someone who cares about your cheating scum behaviour.
Quote:
It's fine that you hate cheaters and want things only to circulate through legitimate players. My only issue with you is that you're kind of offensive to people about this. Your stance seems to be very black and white.
{Hmm..}, is it offensive to you that I want items circulated amongst legitimate players? So are you a cheater or not? 'Fess up, come on...
Quote:
CellyO has posted her reasoning as to why she disagrees with you. It's the same concept that not everyone cares that someone cheated at DOOM to get through the game. People are seriously entitled to their own opinion and it's going too far to berate them for it. Whether or not you think something is "wrong," it doesn't mean everyone else thinks it's so wrong that they care about it. I'm not comparing it to gil selling, but another example of this is people stealing 5 cent candy from the super market. Lots of 13 year old kids do it. Most people would prefer they not, it's "wrong," but most people don't really care.
No, that is a beautiful example of the 'Straw Man' argument that Cellyo is so exubriant about. 'People are seriously entitled to their own opinion'?, yeah like that those that cheated to finish doom have any place amongst those who refused to cheat...
Quote:
A lot of people see gil buying/selling as a necessary evil. Just because you don't, it doesn't mean that:
a) You're absolutely, 100% correct because..
b) It's an opinion.
a) You're absolutely, 100% correct because..
b) It's an opinion.
If you do hate the economic issues that gil selling causes, it's still not a reason to be offensive about it. I addressed Nazlfrag with this above.[/quote]
You don't deserve to address me, but here goes.. 'gil buying/selling as a necessary evil.' Evil is not neccesary. Please quit this game for my, and everyone else's benefit.
#324
May 10 2006 at 10:37 AM
Dear Nazlfrag,
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion
and
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ethics
Also, cry me a river.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion
and
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ethics
Also, cry me a river.
#325
May 10 2006 at 10:54 AM
All this hot air because some gimp cheats and still wants love. The OP is a clown.
With respect to game titles operated by the PlayOnline service, including FINAL FANTASY XI, it is specifically prohibited to sell game currency, characters, or any other in-game items for real money or any other consideration for value (known as Real Money Trade "RMT"). This prohibition is expressly referred to in the following two clauses, which are part of the respective agreements which all registered users of the FINAL FANTASY XI and/or PlayOnline services have agreed to abide by:
*PlayOnline Member Agreement: Article 4.4
*FINAL FANTASY XI User Agreement: Article 3.1
This prohibition is due to the possibility of fraud during transaction in the real world which may lead to legal sanctions, including possible criminal sanctions, being imposed on those involved in such trade. In addition, Real Money Trade was not initially a part of the design for any of our game titles.
We are already investigating this issue and putting into effect appropriate measures for such actions within the game environment, and we will continue to do so in the future. Players found to be participating in Real Money Trade will be deemed to be in breach of the clauses set out above and will be subject to any appropriate legal sanction. We expressly reserve our rights in the event of such a breach, including the right to cancel the PlayOnline account of any user in breach of the clauses above, without any prior notice to such user.
*PlayOnline Member Agreement: Article 4.4
*FINAL FANTASY XI User Agreement: Article 3.1
This prohibition is due to the possibility of fraud during transaction in the real world which may lead to legal sanctions, including possible criminal sanctions, being imposed on those involved in such trade. In addition, Real Money Trade was not initially a part of the design for any of our game titles.
We are already investigating this issue and putting into effect appropriate measures for such actions within the game environment, and we will continue to do so in the future. Players found to be participating in Real Money Trade will be deemed to be in breach of the clauses set out above and will be subject to any appropriate legal sanction. We expressly reserve our rights in the event of such a breach, including the right to cancel the PlayOnline account of any user in breach of the clauses above, without any prior notice to such user.
#326
May 10 2006 at 10:58 AM
if alla dont mind doing business with RMT - that sends the message to me that doing business with RMT is ok.... I look up to alla, afterall they are players themselves and understand the implications that dealing with RMT can incur.
Edited, Wed May 10 12:04:54 2006 by hellotaru
Edited, Wed May 10 12:04:54 2006 by hellotaru
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