Other than the claims made by SE, has anyone actually ever *seen* an account banned for gilbuying?
I can tell you they won't so just try to follow along.
SE doesn't give a crap what the FFXI userbase feels about RMT. SE loves RMT. Plain and simple. How can I say this when I know the SE Fanboys will jump all over me? It keeps people playing and it keeps money rolling into SE's coffers. It increases a players commitment to the game more than the $12.95/mo or even game content ever could. Why? Because if you dumped $1000.00 in gil (I have no idea what the going rate is) you would be *LESS* inclined to move to another game and that keeps the monthlies rolling in. In a way, SE wants people to use RMT as a way to "invest" in a char, which is essentially what RMT is about in the end. People will not dump money into an investment and just turn away. SE knows this, and is exploiting it. SE will only seriously step in, if and only if, there ever arises a massive cancellation revolt, which will never happen, because people will have dumped a lot of money and time in the game. SE knows this. IGE definitely knows this.
Given how the in-game economy is unfolding, and the continual retarded steps SE has used to address this issue, it seems obvoius that SE keeps implementing features that seem to be tailored for RMT purchasing. *cough* Relic Weapons *cough*. You cannot tell me with a straight face that SE didn't see how RMT would rape everyone with that now did you? You actually thought SE created that so people could take their sweet time, four years, to upgrade to Relic? If you believe that, I have swampland is central Florida I think you might like to purchase... You can't feel how the whole Relic system has a kind of "peace offering" feel to the RMT industry do you?
Then, all SE has to do is put on a fake "War on Drugs" type bust for public consumption to keep the masses from turning away from the game en masse, while in the game nothing has really changed and the RMT train continues to roll on without any serious interruptions. Seriously, when SE banned all those accounts and removed all that gil, did it really change anything? Nope. Prices are out of control as they ever were before. You can't keep chalking up their inability to control prices as sheer incompetence. Occam's Razor (and history) shows that SE all but publicly condones RMT.
I go one step further. I remember a time when you could log and make money. You had to scramble past a dozen others to get logging points in Ghelsba Outpost. Now, only the Orcs are the only things chopping, when they attack passers by. Now, with full logging gear you can log fruit seeds and other crap and this logging nerf happened EXACTLY during a time of exploding prices. So SE raped you on both ends. One, it allowed prices to explode uncontrollably, then reduced your ability to raise funds in any legitimate way. I really got negatively impacted by this and when the RNG nerf happened, I was left with a craft (woodworking) that was pretty much useless as a money raiser (at least on my server).
Hate to burst your bubble but SE won't do anything to stop gilbuying or gilselling. Any attack on RMT hurts their bottom line. The whole SE-RMT dichotomy is little more than a Mutt-And-Jeff routine. I go one step further. SE is shilling for the RMT industry by trying to portray itself as the valiant defender of their product against the evil scourge that is RMT while continually taking steps that in the end strengthen RMT.
The only hope for price sanity will occur only when the unregulated Vana'diel bubble economy bursts as all capitalist/exploitive systems continually do.
What I'm saying can be best desribed as follows:
"Square-Enix's campaign against RMT is as fake as a three dollar bill."
Edited, Tue May 9 01:25:27 2006 by bazkoare
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#228
May 09 2006 at 12:11 AM
Scholar
30 posts
I dont know if this has been brought up, but you do know that at this very instance a Gil Buyer could be purchasing your crafted masterpiece? Without Gil buyers there could potentially be less buyers on the market and make it even harder for those who craft to earn gil.
Just playing Devil's Advocate.
Just playing Devil's Advocate.
#229
May 09 2006 at 12:37 AM
EonsdarkCaitsith wrote:
I bought gil, and I most certainly never felt guilt. When it allowed me to do what I wanted to do in game without spending hours farming. Its my time to spend the ways that I want, its my life, and my money.
You suck, what a loser...
BST95/WHM93/BLM90/RDM87/SCH76/DRG48/SMN39/NIN37/BRD37
Susy: Mithra, Bastok, Rank 10 Fairy Server
(Dec 26 2003 - May 31 2010)
(Feb 15 2011 - ???) (On hold, trying to find a reason to come back...)
ACN10/ARM4/CUL6/MRD7/BSM4/FSH8/PGL13/GSM7/ALC7/WVR8/GLA11/MIN16/THM14/LCN6/BTN7/ARC8/CNJ13
Rammy Lozano: Miqo'te, Lamia Server
Susy: Mithra, Bastok, Rank 10 Fairy Server
(Dec 26 2003 - May 31 2010)
(Feb 15 2011 - ???) (On hold, trying to find a reason to come back...)
ACN10/ARM4/CUL6/MRD7/BSM4/FSH8/PGL13/GSM7/ALC7/WVR8/GLA11/MIN16/THM14/LCN6/BTN7/ARC8/CNJ13
Rammy Lozano: Miqo'te, Lamia Server
#230
May 09 2006 at 1:55 AM
I can only be bothered to say this once more for Eonns benefit. Congratulations you bought gil, you understand from that point forward none of your characters achievements were yours.
Argue that anyway you choose, the simple point is you will be wrong and a C*NT a dirty great stinking one. The only C*NT I suspect that would be more rancid would be the one the pulsating mound of trash you call mother dumped you from whilst watching Jerry Springer. Mind you at least she porbably removed her client D*CK from her mouth for 2 mins to breath which must have been nice for her.
Proud boyfriend of Poochie, jesus have your balls dropped yet you RMT suckling *** wipe.
I enjoyed that, right time to head out!
Edited, Tue May 9 03:02:44 2006 by TsingtaoSeraph
Argue that anyway you choose, the simple point is you will be wrong and a C*NT a dirty great stinking one. The only C*NT I suspect that would be more rancid would be the one the pulsating mound of trash you call mother dumped you from whilst watching Jerry Springer. Mind you at least she porbably removed her client D*CK from her mouth for 2 mins to breath which must have been nice for her.
Proud boyfriend of Poochie, jesus have your balls dropped yet you RMT suckling *** wipe.
I enjoyed that, right time to head out!
Edited, Tue May 9 03:02:44 2006 by TsingtaoSeraph
#231
May 09 2006 at 2:26 AM
After I read the OP i just laughed off the chair.
"In order to buy good equipment you need to buy gil"
I have been watching my sever economy.
everyday since I paly.
everything was affordable.
just the gilseller screwed up the economy and make it inflat
more than 10000 fold averagly.
A stack of Fire Crstyal just cost 300-500 onDec 02.
It is still wrong no matter how many selfish ppl say its right.
Rules are rules.
Edited, Tue May 9 03:37:08 2006 by timmyofalex
"In order to buy good equipment you need to buy gil"
I have been watching my sever economy.
everyday since I paly.
everything was affordable.
just the gilseller screwed up the economy and make it inflat
more than 10000 fold averagly.
A stack of Fire Crstyal just cost 300-500 onDec 02.
It is still wrong no matter how many selfish ppl say its right.
Rules are rules.
Edited, Tue May 9 03:37:08 2006 by timmyofalex
#232
May 09 2006 at 4:39 AM
Quote:
You're an idiot. The only reason your stupidity is being rewarded with rate-ups is because this site now condones RMT by association. You suck, your outlook on RMT sucks, and every single person who rated you up and agrees with you sucks. You and your supporters are one reason why this and other MMORPGS can be a frustrating and very unrewarding experience. If you're too goddamn stupid to understand the impact that gil buying has on this game (or just don't care), and have the nerve to condone and support it on top of it, then you just suck, period.
Its not so much the fact that this post got rated up to excellent for being nothing but a personal attack. Its the fact that in his sig, he says...
Quote:
Allakhazam owned by RMT corporation.
{Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.}
{Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.}
...and yet still uses the site. Either stick with your ethics, or don't bother telling people how unethical they are being.
Honestly, what have any of you done to stop RMT? Have you camped agains them to deny them gil? No. Do you not party with people who are knwon to be gil buyers? No. Do you do anything but whine about how much it sucks? No. And yet you all want change.
Yeah, good luck with that.
#233
May 09 2006 at 10:25 AM
bazkoare wrote:
Other than the claims made by SE, has anyone actually ever *seen* an account banned for gilbuying?
I can tell you they won't so just try to follow along.
I can tell you they won't so just try to follow along.
Yes, I have. Congratulations, you lose at the internet! Nice fellow on Ragnarok who decided it was easier to buy an second account and some Gil for a crafting mule. Did so. Got the account jacked out from under him. Complained to a GM about it. First AND second account banned. Needless to say, he quit the game immediately afterwards.
Quote:
SE doesn't give a crap what the FFXI userbase feels about RMT. SE loves RMT. Plain and simple. How can I say this when I know the SE Fanboys will jump all over me? It keeps people playing and it keeps money rolling into SE's coffers. It increases a players commitment to the game more than the $12.95/mo or even game content ever could. Why? Because if you dumped $1000.00 in gil (I have no idea what the going rate is) you would be *LESS* inclined to move to another game and that keeps the monthlies rolling in. In a way, SE wants people to use RMT as a way to "invest" in a char, which is essentially what RMT is about in the end. People will not dump money into an investment and just turn away. SE knows this, and is exploiting it. SE will only seriously step in, if and only if, there ever arises a massive cancellation revolt, which will never happen, because people will have dumped a lot of money and time in the game. SE knows this. IGE definitely knows this.
RMT actually damages the cashflow for S-E. Why? Listen up.
Endgame users give S-E exactly as much money as new players. It's all $12.95/month (plus a dollar per extra). MMORPG's survive and thrive on keeping a playerbase- and endgame players are not a winning situation for MMORPG owners. Why?
They quit. They get bored. They leave. What's worse is, the harder it gets to progress overall, the fewer people even last THAT long- and each one that quits due to anger with a game is one more chunk of bad publicity. It's why so many MMORPG's have "Welcome Back" options. It's to try and draw people back after they hit a point at which the game is no longer fun for them- I had a wave of returns post-ToAU because of this from 75's from my LS who got bored with the endgame and canceled until something changed. And those are the most likely to come back.
The guy who looks 60+ for his hauby and goes "***** this" because it's got from "expensive" to "insane" isn't coming back. The game has gotten to the point of frustrating larger and larger amounts of it's playerbase...because of RMT'ers. They deliberately attempt to adjust the game world to make it less fun- unless you want to get around that by buying their "products". Which happen to actually not be theirs in the first place, but since they have accounts with humans running them 24/7 for Gil production and resource denial (and handily enough, by snagging these resources they inflate the market by artificially increasing player demand), they get to play both sides AND make a mint doing so.
RMT'ers do not care what game you play. They only care that it's popular and can be milked for all it's worth. The better a game is, the more the RMT company wants to mess with it- because if they destroy it, it doesn't MATTER. They lose nothing. The company simply will move to other games if they destroy one, as long as there are other MMORPG's to corrupt for profit. All it costs them is a few accounts worth of affordable time and money to rake in the dollars. The only way to stop this is dedicated efforts on the part of the MMORPG's owners to purge (and continually do so) the RMT accounts.
So heck yes, S-E isn't going to give gilsellers a big hug. They eat into their playerbase, their profit margin, and having to police them is in and of itself a significant expenditure in manpower and hence money. Frankly, SOE is blowing it's own head off- even with "legal" real-money-sale servers, they're going to end up with RMT'ers doing the job better than they will, short of destroying their own server by hyperinflation via flooding the game with items and currency.
IGE is so fat because it's incredibly tough to burn off all of it's leeches. And Allakhazam has just become another pawn in their game. Damn shame. And for the record- no gilbuying here, nor do I use third party programs on FFXI. Ever.
#234
May 09 2006 at 10:40 AM
The last time I checked on SH, V-Claw, Hauby, and Vermy, they were being sold by people I know aren't gilsellers.
The last time I looked at ingredients they weren't being sold by gilsellers.
The last time I camped King Artho, not a gilseller in sight. I said it in my post above and I'll say it again. Everyone one of us creates the economic mire we are in right now.
The last time I looked at ingredients they weren't being sold by gilsellers.
The last time I camped King Artho, not a gilseller in sight. I said it in my post above and I'll say it again. Everyone one of us creates the economic mire we are in right now.
#235
May 09 2006 at 10:51 AM
A lot of gil sellers now are pretty good in hiding their identity in sales. Some gil sellers also move onto item that are better than V Claw etc...... Cerberus Gilsellers are camping Ullikumi and Despot now o.O
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
#236
May 09 2006 at 10:56 AM
Scchan, I won't deny some are good at hiding it. I'm not even saying they don't effect (affect?) the economy. They don't do it any more than you and I do when we BCNM, or camp a NM.
#237
May 09 2006 at 12:35 PM
Caia wrote:
Its not so much the fact that this post got rated up to excellent for being nothing but a personal attack. Its the fact that in his sig, he says...
...and yet still uses the site. Either stick with your ethics, or don't bother telling people how unethical they are being.
Honestly, what have any of you done to stop RMT? Have you camped agains them to deny them gil? No. Do you not party with people who are knwon to be gil buyers? No. Do you do anything but whine about how much it sucks? No. And yet you all want change.
Yeah, good luck with that.
Quote:
Allakhazam owned by RMT corporation.
{Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.}
{Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.}
...and yet still uses the site. Either stick with your ethics, or don't bother telling people how unethical they are being.
Honestly, what have any of you done to stop RMT? Have you camped agains them to deny them gil? No. Do you not party with people who are knwon to be gil buyers? No. Do you do anything but whine about how much it sucks? No. And yet you all want change.
Yeah, good luck with that.
First off, where in my sig does it say I'm not going to use this site? Let's see, could it be nowhere? Ya, mmm hmm. If you must know, my stance is I will never post another message that contains helpful gaming advice, strategies, or anything else that would assist people with the game. The only posts I'll be making will revolve around RMT for the most part, or off-topic discussions. Strike one for you.
I have done my part to stop RMT by creating a list of people who the server agrees are 99% likely to be RMT. This will assist people on my server to not help RMT with teleports, parties, or anything else if they choose to do so. Strike two.
I camp against them as time permits. In case you live under a rock, honest players have finite time on their hands. Nobody in their right mind is going to spend all of their in-game time trying to camp against RMT bots and RMT players who work in shifts to effectively be on 24/7. There are better ways to try to counter RMT on a server. Use some common sense. Strike three. You're out.
No, I absolutely positively do not party with suspected RMT. That includes known buyers or sellers. You've now been ejected from the game.
Anyway, even if all people do is "whine" about it (as you so stupidly put it) it's better than burying your head in the sand and pretending the problem doesn't exist. Apparently that's what you must do, unless you follow your own suggestions which for some reason I highly doubt you do. So, unless you can take your own advice, stfu and gtfo.
#238
May 09 2006 at 12:55 PM
The only thing I find pathetic here is the sheer amount of assholery.
I don't care one way or another for gilselling/buying, I really don't, I'm completely apathetic. I've seen hundreds of posts both from both supporters and non-supporters. Lengthy, drawn-out posts about how it's helpful, not helpful, how it actually helps the economy, how it destroys the economy. I really don't care for any of them anymore, and it frustrates me to see people think they are so much better than everyone with their damn morals.
In the case of this particular thread, which I've been following on my down time (nothing to do, now maintenance), I've seen a hysteric BARRAGE of people berating the original post with their outrageous self-righteous banter and made-up theories. They all sound like completely different explanations, or not even explanations half the time but scapegoating, yet all retain a sense of absolution.
What I do care about is people treating each other with respect first and foremost. Above and beyond their **** morals. One guy who posted here was so ridiculous that he suggested there be a bounty put out for the original post's account to be, in one word, raped.
The original post may have posted an essay that steps on your moral toes, it may have annoyed you because you strongly believe against it, but you're going too far when you become insulting. The original post was hardly a personal attack, and you need to grow up if you think it was.
Most of you don't even know what you're talking about when you condone or hate on gil buying/selling. You just spout some different opinion based on your uneducated guesswork and pretend that you're some new catalyst for someone's thinking. News flash: I only even have seen this work twice, and I've done my damn reading. And you know what? In both cases, the mind-changing was done because the person was either kind or uninsulting. You don't even begin to have the right to be an asshole to someone with these kind of odds. Get a damn clue. I hope you don't beat your kids with things when you want them to "learn a lesson."
Why don't you try making a point by debating the actual issue and not the integrity of an individual? You don't even KNOW this person, and a belief system is HARDLY enough to judge a person's character, ethics, ideals, etc.
I'm just one of many posters who is sick and tired of spending her time here reading your psychopathic banter. I'm sick of wading through your forum religion with a single commandment of being an ***hole every time an otherwise harmless debate pops up.
Two wrongs don't make a right, and it certainly doesn't make a right to mistake a wrong and create one in response. And don't even give me your "but Gweiv you're yelling at us and accusing us!!" nonsense, because I really don't care for your paper-thin defense of splitting hairs. This post is specifically about how courtesy's pump was brutally ripped from the vessel that sustains it. You have no courtesy with which to feel assaulted over.
I may be sounding like the type of person I'm targeting, but go fuck yourselves. Morals and compassion my ***. Fucking hypocrites.
I'm sorry for jumping around in my post or having any run-ons, and have a nice damn day.
I don't care one way or another for gilselling/buying, I really don't, I'm completely apathetic. I've seen hundreds of posts both from both supporters and non-supporters. Lengthy, drawn-out posts about how it's helpful, not helpful, how it actually helps the economy, how it destroys the economy. I really don't care for any of them anymore, and it frustrates me to see people think they are so much better than everyone with their damn morals.
In the case of this particular thread, which I've been following on my down time (nothing to do, now maintenance), I've seen a hysteric BARRAGE of people berating the original post with their outrageous self-righteous banter and made-up theories. They all sound like completely different explanations, or not even explanations half the time but scapegoating, yet all retain a sense of absolution.
What I do care about is people treating each other with respect first and foremost. Above and beyond their **** morals. One guy who posted here was so ridiculous that he suggested there be a bounty put out for the original post's account to be, in one word, raped.
The original post may have posted an essay that steps on your moral toes, it may have annoyed you because you strongly believe against it, but you're going too far when you become insulting. The original post was hardly a personal attack, and you need to grow up if you think it was.
Most of you don't even know what you're talking about when you condone or hate on gil buying/selling. You just spout some different opinion based on your uneducated guesswork and pretend that you're some new catalyst for someone's thinking. News flash: I only even have seen this work twice, and I've done my damn reading. And you know what? In both cases, the mind-changing was done because the person was either kind or uninsulting. You don't even begin to have the right to be an asshole to someone with these kind of odds. Get a damn clue. I hope you don't beat your kids with things when you want them to "learn a lesson."
Why don't you try making a point by debating the actual issue and not the integrity of an individual? You don't even KNOW this person, and a belief system is HARDLY enough to judge a person's character, ethics, ideals, etc.
I'm just one of many posters who is sick and tired of spending her time here reading your psychopathic banter. I'm sick of wading through your forum religion with a single commandment of being an ***hole every time an otherwise harmless debate pops up.
Two wrongs don't make a right, and it certainly doesn't make a right to mistake a wrong and create one in response. And don't even give me your "but Gweiv you're yelling at us and accusing us!!" nonsense, because I really don't care for your paper-thin defense of splitting hairs. This post is specifically about how courtesy's pump was brutally ripped from the vessel that sustains it. You have no courtesy with which to feel assaulted over.
I may be sounding like the type of person I'm targeting, but go fuck yourselves. Morals and compassion my ***. Fucking hypocrites.
I'm sorry for jumping around in my post or having any run-ons, and have a nice damn day.
#239
May 09 2006 at 1:21 PM
Quote:
I don't care one way or another for gilselling/buying, I really don't, I'm completely apathetic.
Quote:
One guy who posted here was so ridiculous that he suggested there be a bounty put out for the original post's account to be, in one word, raped.
Why do you care about one and not the other when I pointed out they are essentially the same thing? Be nice? Be courteous? That hasn't worked because people like you are too stupid and shortsighted to see that those two examples end with exactly the same result. Someobody who does not deserve, has not earned their items, has taken them away from somebody who does deserve, who has earned their items, yet those items are sitting on the accounts of cheaters. What's with moral outrage hypocritic bs? Get off the short bus and realize gil buying is the same as hacking an account directly. So if you don't care about gilselling/buying than wtf do you care whether the OP or your account is hacked and raped?
Maybe we need a bounty on your account too. Why? Because you are publicly stating and influencing a culture of theft. What goes around comes around. I'm frankly sick of having my time stolen by cheaters and their supplier minions. You and the OP are no better than fences that traffic and make markets for theives converting stolen dvd players and car stereos into cash. She admitted that she is this type of scum by stating clearly she is willing to party with gil buyers and could care less about the effects or consequences for anyone else. Just like you. You make this game worse for the vast majority. You help IGE rob SE of their due profits. You're trash. It's no wonder you're upset. Maybe you should try redeeming yourself, or at least cease posting your bogus apathetic crap which shelters the problem.
#240
May 09 2006 at 1:33 PM
FFXI was the first MMORPG I played seriously, and I didn't start until it was released on PS2. I had fun in the beginning, though I had a tough time leveling to 30 (yeah, only 30) because I don't really enjoy the exp grind, and because I was a thief and I hated the jungles.
Anyways, after I got 30 I stopped playing for a while (6 months), but I missed it and my ls. So I got back on. Most of my ls was way higher than me, so I wanted to level so we could do stuff. But before I did that, I felt that I had to be properly 'equipped'. I mean, ffs, I didn't even have leaping boots. So I leveled my ranger, so I could sub it to camp lizzy. Then I camped lizzy, for 5 days of after-work. Can you say boring? During that time, I was chatting on my ls, hearing what they were doing, wishing I could do fun stuff, but I couldn't because I was determined not to be gimp anymore.
Well, after 5 days, I got too bored to continue - I had seen lizzy about 7-9 times, got her 3-4 times (yeah!) got the drop = no times. I thought for that amount of wasted time(and frustration) I'd rather farm and save up the gil to buy them. So I went off and tried to farm silk thread. A couple hours later, I have a few - very few. Well, I had enough money for some food anyways...
Shortly after that, I quit the game - for good. It just wasn't fun anymore (and hadn't been for a while except for ls chat). I kept my character for a while, even tried going back just to fish a little - but I got almost nothing in a couple hours of fishing and just ended up frustrated.
So I deleted my character and bought WoW, though I had a lot of misgivings because (1) I like Final Fantasy, I like the aesthetic and storyline and wasn't sure WoW would measure up, and (2) I had heard SO much about how juvenile WoW was, how it was 'too easy', etc.
That was 6 months ago. I'm still on WoW, and *gasp* I'm still having fun! I'm not at the level cap yet though I easily could be, but that's not the point - the point is that I enjoy all the time I spend playing WoW - without having to buy extra money.
There are a couple things that I think SE could easily do to reduce the frustration/ increase enjoyment of FFXI - take away exp loss after death, improve item/ingredient drops, make more equipment rare/ex, etc., and I've often wondered why they don't put them into effect. Now, after months spent away, I feel like FFXI is designed for the 'hardcore' player, the 'uber' players, the ones that are willing to spend days and days grinding in one spot on one type of mob, so that when they finally get to 'the top' they feel a tremendous sense of accomplishment. Or for gil-buyers. And I am evidently not one of those players, and I wasn't lucky enough to be there in the beginning when the economy wasn't so bad. And I don't have the nerve to try and party with people who are expecting me to have uber gear, or even frickin leaping boots (bounding boots, whatever), and who are depending on me not to endanger the whole party's exp (I don't care about uber exp, but I still worry about getting the party killed and LOSING exp).
So though there are things about FFXI that I miss, I figure that it's not targeted towards players like me, and that's fine. But there's no way in hell I'd spend extra money on top of the 60$ initial game, 30$ expansion, and 13$/month just so I don't have to spend hundreds of hours doing drudge work like farming.
Eventually, RMT will follow the flock, people will get annoyed, years will pass, it'll get unbearable, then they'll move onto another MMORPG. Rinse, repeat. There is no such thing as a popular 3D MMORPG that isn't @#%^ed by RMT, alright? Everquest, WoW, FF11, all are @#%^ed by this, if not as bad as the other now, RMT will catch up. Eventually, all three games will be unbearable, but by the time that happens, other MMORPG's will have been released.
I don't agree with this - WoW is quite easy to play without RMT, and even up at the top the most common complaint isn't that items are expensive (because quite a lot are from raids or are BoP), but that raid groups are inflexible, which is a totally unrelated issue.
Now feel free to make fun of me for playing WoW, or whatever - I just saw this thread in passing and felt like adding a (now) outsider's point of view - as well as wasting time at work >:)
(Edit): What was my point again? Erm, well I guess my point is, if you're not having fun in FFXI anymore, because of inflation or gilbuyers, there are other options - not all MMORPG's are like it. It hurts to give up all that time you spent, but if you're annoyed/frustrated during most of your playing time, it's not a game anymore, it's not fun, and it's not worth it.
Edited, Tue May 9 14:46:26 2006 by FenrirSulis
Anyways, after I got 30 I stopped playing for a while (6 months), but I missed it and my ls. So I got back on. Most of my ls was way higher than me, so I wanted to level so we could do stuff. But before I did that, I felt that I had to be properly 'equipped'. I mean, ffs, I didn't even have leaping boots. So I leveled my ranger, so I could sub it to camp lizzy. Then I camped lizzy, for 5 days of after-work. Can you say boring? During that time, I was chatting on my ls, hearing what they were doing, wishing I could do fun stuff, but I couldn't because I was determined not to be gimp anymore.
Well, after 5 days, I got too bored to continue - I had seen lizzy about 7-9 times, got her 3-4 times (yeah!) got the drop = no times. I thought for that amount of wasted time(and frustration) I'd rather farm and save up the gil to buy them. So I went off and tried to farm silk thread. A couple hours later, I have a few - very few. Well, I had enough money for some food anyways...
Shortly after that, I quit the game - for good. It just wasn't fun anymore (and hadn't been for a while except for ls chat). I kept my character for a while, even tried going back just to fish a little - but I got almost nothing in a couple hours of fishing and just ended up frustrated.
So I deleted my character and bought WoW, though I had a lot of misgivings because (1) I like Final Fantasy, I like the aesthetic and storyline and wasn't sure WoW would measure up, and (2) I had heard SO much about how juvenile WoW was, how it was 'too easy', etc.
That was 6 months ago. I'm still on WoW, and *gasp* I'm still having fun! I'm not at the level cap yet though I easily could be, but that's not the point - the point is that I enjoy all the time I spend playing WoW - without having to buy extra money.
There are a couple things that I think SE could easily do to reduce the frustration/ increase enjoyment of FFXI - take away exp loss after death, improve item/ingredient drops, make more equipment rare/ex, etc., and I've often wondered why they don't put them into effect. Now, after months spent away, I feel like FFXI is designed for the 'hardcore' player, the 'uber' players, the ones that are willing to spend days and days grinding in one spot on one type of mob, so that when they finally get to 'the top' they feel a tremendous sense of accomplishment. Or for gil-buyers. And I am evidently not one of those players, and I wasn't lucky enough to be there in the beginning when the economy wasn't so bad. And I don't have the nerve to try and party with people who are expecting me to have uber gear, or even frickin leaping boots (bounding boots, whatever), and who are depending on me not to endanger the whole party's exp (I don't care about uber exp, but I still worry about getting the party killed and LOSING exp).
So though there are things about FFXI that I miss, I figure that it's not targeted towards players like me, and that's fine. But there's no way in hell I'd spend extra money on top of the 60$ initial game, 30$ expansion, and 13$/month just so I don't have to spend hundreds of hours doing drudge work like farming.
Quote:
Eventually, RMT will follow the flock, people will get annoyed, years will pass, it'll get unbearable, then they'll move onto another MMORPG. Rinse, repeat. There is no such thing as a popular 3D MMORPG that isn't @#%^ed by RMT, alright? Everquest, WoW, FF11, all are @#%^ed by this, if not as bad as the other now, RMT will catch up. Eventually, all three games will be unbearable, but by the time that happens, other MMORPG's will have been released.
I don't agree with this - WoW is quite easy to play without RMT, and even up at the top the most common complaint isn't that items are expensive (because quite a lot are from raids or are BoP), but that raid groups are inflexible, which is a totally unrelated issue.
Now feel free to make fun of me for playing WoW, or whatever - I just saw this thread in passing and felt like adding a (now) outsider's point of view - as well as wasting time at work >:)
(Edit): What was my point again? Erm, well I guess my point is, if you're not having fun in FFXI anymore, because of inflation or gilbuyers, there are other options - not all MMORPG's are like it. It hurts to give up all that time you spent, but if you're annoyed/frustrated during most of your playing time, it's not a game anymore, it's not fun, and it's not worth it.
Edited, Tue May 9 14:46:26 2006 by FenrirSulis
#241
May 09 2006 at 1:40 PM
Oh my gosh, some of these replies are just hilarious.
What I said offended you so badly that you'd put a bounty out on me? That's hysterical. My character is in my profile, Celisse on Gilgamesh. Please try to torment me in the game, I absolutely dare you. Please make a character on Gilgamesh, private message me for a World Pass and I will seriously buy you one. Come find out how little I actually care about your feelings in person, and watch my friends and I sit around and "be just as bad as gil sellers" while we help players in need, level up, do Dynamis and in general just play the game without a political agenda. We're so evil and sinister, someone's got to put a stop to us. XD
Seriously, step back and care a little less about all this nonsense. Gil buying actually affects you on an emotional level, to the extent where you think about it when you're not on the game, and would sit here calling me names all weekend long while I studied for finals? Do you think I'm going to be offended by any of this? It's just silly. Why would I even leave myself open for these kinds of replies if I cared in the least what you all thought of my opinion? That's how I feel, it's out there, agree or disagree, I don't care. There's no use wasting any time being politically correct about it, and in-game ethics are overrated.
Also, a word to the wise: When dealing with opinions, nothing is absolute. It's just how you feel, stop trying to state it as a fact. It just makes you look, for lack of a better term, ignorant. I honestly can't believe people spent the time trying to prove my *opinion* wrong here, in very lengthy and very nonsensical replies, when it's impossible to mix fact and opinion in the first place.
"I disagree with you, and here's why" is how you debate opinions. You try to influence change by putting up a convincing argument. Trying to present your opinion as if you're right, and I'm wrong, isn't dealing with opinion at all. Given that ethics are all opinion and no fact, I'm going to have to ask you to please research debate a little bit and then get back to me. The only absolutes in opinions come when you use absolutes, in which case you are absolutely clueless.
Also, I read a psychoanalysis of me a few pages back that was just great. Here's the psychological drift behind my posts, just to correct you a tad bit. "Wow, these people never shut up about IGE and Allakhazam being owned by the same company." *wait a day* "Geez, these goobers are still at it. This is getting too annoying to sit here and watch." *post* ...
Seriously, you can't clutter the boards with your nonsense for two full days and expect nobody to be annoyed, and everyone to just go along with you. Everyone who would not shut up about this brought the backlash on themselves, and I'm sure you pushed several people to the brink of actually buying gil just to avoid being associated with you. Half the posts slamming those who freaked out about IGE and Allakhazam as bedfellows were from people who didn't even disagree, but were so annoyed by the incessant rambling that they could take no more. You all ignored the "Shut up, let's get back to talking about FFXI" posts that were 100% correct, and those who were leaving took their sweet time to get out. If you're so disgusted by the backlash and my post, look in the mirror, that's what caused it. If someone doesn't listen to you the 999th time you spew the same nonsense, please, do everyone a favor and don't go for 1,000.
Oh, and to those who want to default me all over all the forums, private message me and I'll give you a list of all my posts, ever, for you to do it on. No sense wasting hours of your time doing something I don't care about, and doesn't hurt me, when I'll just give you the information you want up-front. Also, if you want that world pass to come torment me (don't bother, I'll rip you apart), send a private message as well. I'll get you one as soon as I can. If you want to make this a part of your life, I'll accomodate you, because all of this is just so entertaining to me. You'll tire yourself out in about five seconds anyway. I'm not going to hide from you crazy zealots because I have an opinion.
To everyone who responded thoughtfully and didn't act like a little child: Thank you. I unfortunately was offline all weekend, so I can't reply to everything, but I wish I had the time and the space to debate you or respond.
To everyone who did act like a little child: Nya nya! *sticks tongue out* I know you are, but what am I? :3 (Maybe communicating on your level would help?)
Toodles, I'm off again. See you all this weekend if the thread's still going, but I have three more finals. >.<
Edited, Tue May 9 15:19:35 2006 by CellyO
What I said offended you so badly that you'd put a bounty out on me? That's hysterical. My character is in my profile, Celisse on Gilgamesh. Please try to torment me in the game, I absolutely dare you. Please make a character on Gilgamesh, private message me for a World Pass and I will seriously buy you one. Come find out how little I actually care about your feelings in person, and watch my friends and I sit around and "be just as bad as gil sellers" while we help players in need, level up, do Dynamis and in general just play the game without a political agenda. We're so evil and sinister, someone's got to put a stop to us. XD
Seriously, step back and care a little less about all this nonsense. Gil buying actually affects you on an emotional level, to the extent where you think about it when you're not on the game, and would sit here calling me names all weekend long while I studied for finals? Do you think I'm going to be offended by any of this? It's just silly. Why would I even leave myself open for these kinds of replies if I cared in the least what you all thought of my opinion? That's how I feel, it's out there, agree or disagree, I don't care. There's no use wasting any time being politically correct about it, and in-game ethics are overrated.
Also, a word to the wise: When dealing with opinions, nothing is absolute. It's just how you feel, stop trying to state it as a fact. It just makes you look, for lack of a better term, ignorant. I honestly can't believe people spent the time trying to prove my *opinion* wrong here, in very lengthy and very nonsensical replies, when it's impossible to mix fact and opinion in the first place.
"I disagree with you, and here's why" is how you debate opinions. You try to influence change by putting up a convincing argument. Trying to present your opinion as if you're right, and I'm wrong, isn't dealing with opinion at all. Given that ethics are all opinion and no fact, I'm going to have to ask you to please research debate a little bit and then get back to me. The only absolutes in opinions come when you use absolutes, in which case you are absolutely clueless.
Also, I read a psychoanalysis of me a few pages back that was just great. Here's the psychological drift behind my posts, just to correct you a tad bit. "Wow, these people never shut up about IGE and Allakhazam being owned by the same company." *wait a day* "Geez, these goobers are still at it. This is getting too annoying to sit here and watch." *post* ...
Seriously, you can't clutter the boards with your nonsense for two full days and expect nobody to be annoyed, and everyone to just go along with you. Everyone who would not shut up about this brought the backlash on themselves, and I'm sure you pushed several people to the brink of actually buying gil just to avoid being associated with you. Half the posts slamming those who freaked out about IGE and Allakhazam as bedfellows were from people who didn't even disagree, but were so annoyed by the incessant rambling that they could take no more. You all ignored the "Shut up, let's get back to talking about FFXI" posts that were 100% correct, and those who were leaving took their sweet time to get out. If you're so disgusted by the backlash and my post, look in the mirror, that's what caused it. If someone doesn't listen to you the 999th time you spew the same nonsense, please, do everyone a favor and don't go for 1,000.
Oh, and to those who want to default me all over all the forums, private message me and I'll give you a list of all my posts, ever, for you to do it on. No sense wasting hours of your time doing something I don't care about, and doesn't hurt me, when I'll just give you the information you want up-front. Also, if you want that world pass to come torment me (don't bother, I'll rip you apart), send a private message as well. I'll get you one as soon as I can. If you want to make this a part of your life, I'll accomodate you, because all of this is just so entertaining to me. You'll tire yourself out in about five seconds anyway. I'm not going to hide from you crazy zealots because I have an opinion.
To everyone who responded thoughtfully and didn't act like a little child: Thank you. I unfortunately was offline all weekend, so I can't reply to everything, but I wish I had the time and the space to debate you or respond.
To everyone who did act like a little child: Nya nya! *sticks tongue out* I know you are, but what am I? :3 (Maybe communicating on your level would help?)
Toodles, I'm off again. See you all this weekend if the thread's still going, but I have three more finals. >.<
Edited, Tue May 9 15:19:35 2006 by CellyO
#242
May 09 2006 at 1:44 PM
Hope you do well on them^^.
#243
May 09 2006 at 1:44 PM
You missed the entire point.
The point was that you're being a jerk to someone to try and change their opinion. It doesn't work. The fact you're calling people stupid is, quite frankly, amusing at best.
And the reason I said I don't care about the gilbuying thing is because:
a) I don't.
b) I didn't want people to think that was the focus of my post.
Gil buying and being asinine are not the same problem. I could run circles around you, it's so easy. By harping on apathy, you've already shown me that you EXPECT people to be activists for your morals and throw their time away. I don't think you could get any less in touch with the real world, which you're so powerfully defending.
Insulting someone directly is direct. Having some kind of economic system which may or may not cause grief (something I'm almost certain you know nothing about, with the attitude you propose) is indirect. There is a big difference as to how these two actions influence people.
You make it apparent that you're an "ends justify the means" person, at least as shown thus far. You have no business being outraged by "cheating" in this sense.
Go ahead and threaten me, you're backing me into no corner. You're not going to make me "redeem" myself. The only thing you're succeeding at doing is feeling superior over false notions. I'm yawning.
Somehow, I think if you were a community cop, you'd be the guy who ends up in the papers for bludgeoning a 13-year-old girl who stole cigarettes from a convenience store. Then you'd be in court saying she's a criminal and has to be executed, and you'd be calling people scum for covering their mouths and staring at you. The vein in your forehead is showing, sir.
Heck, I don't even know why I'm replying. You sound exactly like an advanced troll.
Remove the stick, please, and replace it with a fork. I'm done with you.
Edit: Edited for flair. What else?
Edited, Tue May 9 15:08:33 2006 by Gweivyth
The point was that you're being a jerk to someone to try and change their opinion. It doesn't work. The fact you're calling people stupid is, quite frankly, amusing at best.
And the reason I said I don't care about the gilbuying thing is because:
a) I don't.
b) I didn't want people to think that was the focus of my post.
Gil buying and being asinine are not the same problem. I could run circles around you, it's so easy. By harping on apathy, you've already shown me that you EXPECT people to be activists for your morals and throw their time away. I don't think you could get any less in touch with the real world, which you're so powerfully defending.
Insulting someone directly is direct. Having some kind of economic system which may or may not cause grief (something I'm almost certain you know nothing about, with the attitude you propose) is indirect. There is a big difference as to how these two actions influence people.
You make it apparent that you're an "ends justify the means" person, at least as shown thus far. You have no business being outraged by "cheating" in this sense.
Go ahead and threaten me, you're backing me into no corner. You're not going to make me "redeem" myself. The only thing you're succeeding at doing is feeling superior over false notions. I'm yawning.
Somehow, I think if you were a community cop, you'd be the guy who ends up in the papers for bludgeoning a 13-year-old girl who stole cigarettes from a convenience store. Then you'd be in court saying she's a criminal and has to be executed, and you'd be calling people scum for covering their mouths and staring at you. The vein in your forehead is showing, sir.
Heck, I don't even know why I'm replying. You sound exactly like an advanced troll.
Remove the stick, please, and replace it with a fork. I'm done with you.
Edit: Edited for flair. What else?
Edited, Tue May 9 15:08:33 2006 by Gweivyth
#244
May 09 2006 at 1:49 PM
Scholar
37 posts
Gil buying is whats made it impossible for people to afford anything in the first place... Without a gil buyer there can be no gil seller, and vice-versa... the prices are high so gil sellers can bring in more money to sell, and of course some people are just greedy. But if there was no gil selling/buying the prices would be low, and a lot more people would be able to afford the items you support gil buying to buy... Your argument eats itself... basically youre saying you support our economy going out the ***... and like yourself: not everyone can even afford to buy gil. So what do you expect them to do? I do not support gil buying simply because... without it and its accomplice, gil selling; Prices on everything would be much lower, because simply? theres no reason for items to cost as much as they do without gil buyers/sellers...
Edited, Tue May 9 15:31:45 2006 by Sensetsu
Edited, Tue May 9 15:31:45 2006 by Sensetsu
#245REDACTED,
Posted: May 09 2006 at 1:56 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) MonxDoT, you are hysterical. I love people who are so upset and up in arms about something that they make empty threats instead of just making sense in their replies. "I can't debate on your level, so I'm going to beat you up in the parking lot after the argument is over."
#246
May 09 2006 at 2:15 PM
Exactly as I said, the OP will not understand until she has her account hacked and items stolen. Guess you're just going to completely ignore the "opinion" (lmao you idiot when it's clearly self-evident fact) that gil buyers bid items away, steal time away, from honest deserving players that don't cheat. I employ strict economic scientific analysis with the rhetoric of a crusader. Your short bus "opinions" ignore facts which have slapped your posts in your face.
What to you people expect when you repeatedly ignore fact and try to muddle things and hide in some cesspool of opinions none better or worse than others? It's cowardly.
What does someone need to join your server for to teach you the lesson you need to learn, which is get your account hacked and your items taken away. I didn't see you clearly state that you would not care if this happened so go ahead and post your user name and password and you can experience first hand the effect which gil buyers have on non cheaters. But you're just a coward wasting bandwith with opionions which are easily smashed by facts.
How convenient that you ignore any response or recourse to morality, amorality, or whatever, when it comes to your personal account. You're selfish. You contribute to the hardship of the honest members of the community.
Just because you've been experienced to a subpar education which results in your silly declarations of ethics being all opinion and no facts, the results and consequences of systems of ethics and the lack are easily discernable as factual consequences. Again, you missed a chance at upbraiding yourself.
Why should I pussyfoot around the bush when I can dimiss your wrong opinions with fact and logic?
For everybody else it's clear the OP and another poster have chosen to ignore the lucid point which destroys their apathetic advocation:
Gil buying has the exact same effect as hacking accounts and taking items from those hacked accounts.
There's no "opinion" about the result. There is just your crappy opinion that you don't care and your crappy opinion that all ethics are a matter of opinion. Ideas have consequences and you fail to acknowledge and welcome to you yourself what you welcome to others. Probably because of your opinion that ethics are not universally applicable. Flash: I'm a badass econ guy who uses analysis of cause and effect to make my points. The rest is pretty dressing in the form of fancy rhetoric or colorful language. I don't need any wimpy opinions like you. You cry it's "mean". The only children are you who dare post nonsense, get intellectually spanked, and then proceed to ignore pages of lucid facts which have laid your measley opinion to waste. But I guess that's hard to comprehend when every day you get told you'r e"special" because you ride the short bus.
You support cheating. Period. Cheating has consequences. You're just to cowardly and stupid to look at the consequences.
What to you people expect when you repeatedly ignore fact and try to muddle things and hide in some cesspool of opinions none better or worse than others? It's cowardly.
What does someone need to join your server for to teach you the lesson you need to learn, which is get your account hacked and your items taken away. I didn't see you clearly state that you would not care if this happened so go ahead and post your user name and password and you can experience first hand the effect which gil buyers have on non cheaters. But you're just a coward wasting bandwith with opionions which are easily smashed by facts.
How convenient that you ignore any response or recourse to morality, amorality, or whatever, when it comes to your personal account. You're selfish. You contribute to the hardship of the honest members of the community.
Just because you've been experienced to a subpar education which results in your silly declarations of ethics being all opinion and no facts, the results and consequences of systems of ethics and the lack are easily discernable as factual consequences. Again, you missed a chance at upbraiding yourself.
Why should I pussyfoot around the bush when I can dimiss your wrong opinions with fact and logic?
For everybody else it's clear the OP and another poster have chosen to ignore the lucid point which destroys their apathetic advocation:
Gil buying has the exact same effect as hacking accounts and taking items from those hacked accounts.
There's no "opinion" about the result. There is just your crappy opinion that you don't care and your crappy opinion that all ethics are a matter of opinion. Ideas have consequences and you fail to acknowledge and welcome to you yourself what you welcome to others. Probably because of your opinion that ethics are not universally applicable. Flash: I'm a badass econ guy who uses analysis of cause and effect to make my points. The rest is pretty dressing in the form of fancy rhetoric or colorful language. I don't need any wimpy opinions like you. You cry it's "mean". The only children are you who dare post nonsense, get intellectually spanked, and then proceed to ignore pages of lucid facts which have laid your measley opinion to waste. But I guess that's hard to comprehend when every day you get told you'r e"special" because you ride the short bus.
You support cheating. Period. Cheating has consequences. You're just to cowardly and stupid to look at the consequences.
#247
May 09 2006 at 2:22 PM
Scholar
37 posts
Another thing... either you like to start debates... or you have nothing better to do... Youre original post was understandable though i dont agree with it. But youre no better than the people arguing with you if youre just arguing back, and insulting them for their opinions. Whats wrong with some people being more involved in this game than you? Does it make it right for you to belittle them because you are not as attached to this game than others? I think not. Your previous post suggests you have some knowledge in philosophy so i expect you to understand my point in this post. Admit it or not, you seem to have put yourself up on a pedestal compared to these people... "Look how great I am."
You cant belittle these people for their emotions/opinions, no earthly or heavenly reason gives you the right to. You made your statement... now get out, because otherwise youre just causing worthless arguments, debates if you would have it. I also agree with MonxDoT on some points. Such as you do not either understand or want to look at the results of what you support... which is cowardice. I still rest on my first post in this thread...
You cant belittle these people for their emotions/opinions, no earthly or heavenly reason gives you the right to. You made your statement... now get out, because otherwise youre just causing worthless arguments, debates if you would have it. I also agree with MonxDoT on some points. Such as you do not either understand or want to look at the results of what you support... which is cowardice. I still rest on my first post in this thread...
#248
May 09 2006 at 2:57 PM
The only thing I'm going to "understand" if I have my account hacked and my items stolen is that insane message board people are jerks, and some goofballs will go way too far when they don't stand a chance in an argument. Trust me, there will be no epiphany made about gil selling, because the two are unrelated. Some zealot hacking my account is only going to make me hate "crusaders" even more. That you would hack an honest, legitimate player just to prove your usless point only makes you a hypocrite.
I see no strict economic scientific analysis in your posts, it's just a bunch of hogwash and self-entitlement. Actual analysis has supporting evidence, for one, of which you have zilch. Actual "strict economic scientfic analysis" shows shapshots of a market before and after gil buying. What you're doing is just boasting a foolhardy opinion, and not a very well thought out one at that. Have you even looked at the market? Where are you getting your research? Scorpion harnesses on my server were 4 million gil before gil buying took off, now they're 5 million. It's an effect, but it's not dramatic, and the item wouldn't be easily affordable if gil selling weren't a part. Also, you need to factor in actual, non-RMT related inflation to the whole thing, of which there's been a lot in the last year and a half. The actual effect of gil buying on a scorpion harness is probably about 500,000 gil, and that's just one example. Please show me your evidence that it's destroying the economy. One Christmas gil sale that caused ridiculous inflation that died out in about a month is absolutely no evidence whatsoever, but that's probably all you've got.
"Good, hard working players" do get what they have coming, I said I preferred them in my first post, which, if you weren't practically illiterate, I'm sure you would've read. If you don't like the way things are, you just need to work harder. Removing the gil buyers wouldn't make a scorpion harness one million gil, and you know it. People like you just don't have any coping skills, child. The game presents you with a problem that's not going away, and instead of dealing with it, you whine about it. Instead of going, working hard and overcoming the economy like I have, you come on here and berate me because you're frustrated about your progess and feel it's being impeded by gil buyers.
The more gil gets pumped into the economy, the more you can personally get out of it. You're being naive and acting like all legitimate players still sell all of their items at pre-inflation prices, and that's idiotic. The same amount of work in this game will always give you the same reward, because all items inflate proportionately. Venomous claws may cost a million more, but you also make a million extra when you sell them. Silk thread may cost a bit extra nowadays and you may feel that gil buying hurts your craft, but Aristocrat's Coats and HQ Zenith sell for the same percentage more because of the inflation, and the rewards you reap from your craft are as proportionate as ever.
If you're dirt poor, you're not working. That is an absolute fact, unlike every sweeping generalization and bit of garbage you tried to shove down my throat in your sloppy, ill though out reply. HQ scorpion harnesses shot to 30 million over Christmas inflation because the claws were 15 million. Legitimate players could HQ a harness and still have the same exact profit margin as they ever did, and after inflation cooled back down, have a lot more gil to their names. If you actually play the market, play the game, work, and don't expect everything to be handed to you, the game is the exact same way it always was. Everything, from fire crystals to Aristocrat's Coats, generally inflates at the same rate. Maybe you're too stupid to see the pattern and just look at the base numbers, but if you actually thought for two and a half seconds, you'd realize that legitimate players profit in the exact same way they ever have, off of anything. The only issue is that gil buyers don't have to work for what they get. Not that the same amount of work won't still get you a scorpion harness.
And onto the rest.
Child (and I'm sure I'm correct in assuming that), ethics ARE ALL OPINION. Ethics are taught in the philosophy department, ethics are not a science. Take Intro to Ethics next semester, or if you ever get to college, then come tell me you know what they are. Maybe you actually will. There is no fact in ethics, none at all. Eating babies may seem perfectly ethical to one person and unethical to you, it's all in self-perception. If you're trying to tell me your ethics are fact, you're as naive and pathetic as I thought you were the second you called for my account to be hacked. "I can't debate on your level, so I'm going to beat you up! Duhurhurhurh!"
Seriously, stop pretending we're even in the same league intellectually. Every attempt you make against me will just lead to me destroying you. You're ignorant, you know nothing of the nature of the ethics that you hold so dear, you use big words out of context to make yourself look smart to the casual observer. "Strict economic scientific analysis," where it pertains to your post, is just fancy talk for "Me disagree me mad me insult you without making point! Robble robble! *smashes rock with club*"
And, if I may reiterate, there are no such things as wrong opinions or wrong ethics. Stop being a narrow-minded fool. The least you can do is look ethics up on the internet and find out what they actually are, before assuming they delve into the realm of fact. If ethics were faction, the subject would be a science, not a liberal art. Seriously, get a clue. We're talking opinions here, and all you're allowed to do is disagree. Don't overstep your bounds, child, and please, know what your bounds actually are.
I know it tears you up that I'm smarter than you are. That's why there's all this rage from your direction in the first place. That someone came along with a viewpoint you don't like, and presented it better than you could a rebuttal. It's probably eating away at you right now, but you're going to have to deal with it. Threatening to hack my account and teach me a lesson because I hold a different opinion than you do is a way worse offense than supporting a controversial stance, it's going beyond being civil and into the realms of dictatorship. "Do what I say, or I will hurt you." "Redeem yourself, repent now, or suffer the consequences!" ... You're sounding like a lot of people who were truly and utterly monsters, to say the very least.
A person has no moral responsibility on FFXI. They can choose to fight against gil selling, they can choose to support it, and they can choose not to care. The only, ONLY responsibility a player has on a game is to themselves, and to play it.
Bolded for emphasis. Playing FFXI doesn't mean you have to fight against imaginary oppressors. There's no requirement to care what goes on, as long as you enjoy your time playing. That is a fact.
Oh, and crusaders are totally lame, for the record. The fact that you compared yourself to one as some sort of brag was extra funny.
MonxDoT, your attempts to intimidate people and squash their opinions will never work, because no one is afraid of people like you. Bullying other people on the internet is the lowest of the low, and when you look back on how badly I just destroyed you, I hope you understand how it feels.
I'm not going to read your reply. To this point you've proven yourself capable of only nonsense, self-righteous drivel and empty threats and insults. So, when you go "duh duh duh, ur stuped me is smrt, ethics are factjewel, rahoffleoffle, hack ur account good, me kill u en rl," just pretend I saw it, got scared, ran off, and am throwing myself a pity party because of how great you are. Anything that helps you sleep at night, kiddo.
Gone for real this time. Any MonxDoT stupidity is going to fall on deaf ears from now on. Not that I cared what you had to say in the first place, but it was indeed very pertinent to flatten you like this. It's the only way people like you will learn.
I see no strict economic scientific analysis in your posts, it's just a bunch of hogwash and self-entitlement. Actual analysis has supporting evidence, for one, of which you have zilch. Actual "strict economic scientfic analysis" shows shapshots of a market before and after gil buying. What you're doing is just boasting a foolhardy opinion, and not a very well thought out one at that. Have you even looked at the market? Where are you getting your research? Scorpion harnesses on my server were 4 million gil before gil buying took off, now they're 5 million. It's an effect, but it's not dramatic, and the item wouldn't be easily affordable if gil selling weren't a part. Also, you need to factor in actual, non-RMT related inflation to the whole thing, of which there's been a lot in the last year and a half. The actual effect of gil buying on a scorpion harness is probably about 500,000 gil, and that's just one example. Please show me your evidence that it's destroying the economy. One Christmas gil sale that caused ridiculous inflation that died out in about a month is absolutely no evidence whatsoever, but that's probably all you've got.
"Good, hard working players" do get what they have coming, I said I preferred them in my first post, which, if you weren't practically illiterate, I'm sure you would've read. If you don't like the way things are, you just need to work harder. Removing the gil buyers wouldn't make a scorpion harness one million gil, and you know it. People like you just don't have any coping skills, child. The game presents you with a problem that's not going away, and instead of dealing with it, you whine about it. Instead of going, working hard and overcoming the economy like I have, you come on here and berate me because you're frustrated about your progess and feel it's being impeded by gil buyers.
The more gil gets pumped into the economy, the more you can personally get out of it. You're being naive and acting like all legitimate players still sell all of their items at pre-inflation prices, and that's idiotic. The same amount of work in this game will always give you the same reward, because all items inflate proportionately. Venomous claws may cost a million more, but you also make a million extra when you sell them. Silk thread may cost a bit extra nowadays and you may feel that gil buying hurts your craft, but Aristocrat's Coats and HQ Zenith sell for the same percentage more because of the inflation, and the rewards you reap from your craft are as proportionate as ever.
If you're dirt poor, you're not working. That is an absolute fact, unlike every sweeping generalization and bit of garbage you tried to shove down my throat in your sloppy, ill though out reply. HQ scorpion harnesses shot to 30 million over Christmas inflation because the claws were 15 million. Legitimate players could HQ a harness and still have the same exact profit margin as they ever did, and after inflation cooled back down, have a lot more gil to their names. If you actually play the market, play the game, work, and don't expect everything to be handed to you, the game is the exact same way it always was. Everything, from fire crystals to Aristocrat's Coats, generally inflates at the same rate. Maybe you're too stupid to see the pattern and just look at the base numbers, but if you actually thought for two and a half seconds, you'd realize that legitimate players profit in the exact same way they ever have, off of anything. The only issue is that gil buyers don't have to work for what they get. Not that the same amount of work won't still get you a scorpion harness.
And onto the rest.
Child (and I'm sure I'm correct in assuming that), ethics ARE ALL OPINION. Ethics are taught in the philosophy department, ethics are not a science. Take Intro to Ethics next semester, or if you ever get to college, then come tell me you know what they are. Maybe you actually will. There is no fact in ethics, none at all. Eating babies may seem perfectly ethical to one person and unethical to you, it's all in self-perception. If you're trying to tell me your ethics are fact, you're as naive and pathetic as I thought you were the second you called for my account to be hacked. "I can't debate on your level, so I'm going to beat you up! Duhurhurhurh!"
Seriously, stop pretending we're even in the same league intellectually. Every attempt you make against me will just lead to me destroying you. You're ignorant, you know nothing of the nature of the ethics that you hold so dear, you use big words out of context to make yourself look smart to the casual observer. "Strict economic scientific analysis," where it pertains to your post, is just fancy talk for "Me disagree me mad me insult you without making point! Robble robble! *smashes rock with club*"
And, if I may reiterate, there are no such things as wrong opinions or wrong ethics. Stop being a narrow-minded fool. The least you can do is look ethics up on the internet and find out what they actually are, before assuming they delve into the realm of fact. If ethics were faction, the subject would be a science, not a liberal art. Seriously, get a clue. We're talking opinions here, and all you're allowed to do is disagree. Don't overstep your bounds, child, and please, know what your bounds actually are.
I know it tears you up that I'm smarter than you are. That's why there's all this rage from your direction in the first place. That someone came along with a viewpoint you don't like, and presented it better than you could a rebuttal. It's probably eating away at you right now, but you're going to have to deal with it. Threatening to hack my account and teach me a lesson because I hold a different opinion than you do is a way worse offense than supporting a controversial stance, it's going beyond being civil and into the realms of dictatorship. "Do what I say, or I will hurt you." "Redeem yourself, repent now, or suffer the consequences!" ... You're sounding like a lot of people who were truly and utterly monsters, to say the very least.
A person has no moral responsibility on FFXI. They can choose to fight against gil selling, they can choose to support it, and they can choose not to care. The only, ONLY responsibility a player has on a game is to themselves, and to play it.
Bolded for emphasis. Playing FFXI doesn't mean you have to fight against imaginary oppressors. There's no requirement to care what goes on, as long as you enjoy your time playing. That is a fact.
Oh, and crusaders are totally lame, for the record. The fact that you compared yourself to one as some sort of brag was extra funny.
MonxDoT, your attempts to intimidate people and squash their opinions will never work, because no one is afraid of people like you. Bullying other people on the internet is the lowest of the low, and when you look back on how badly I just destroyed you, I hope you understand how it feels.
I'm not going to read your reply. To this point you've proven yourself capable of only nonsense, self-righteous drivel and empty threats and insults. So, when you go "duh duh duh, ur stuped me is smrt, ethics are factjewel, rahoffleoffle, hack ur account good, me kill u en rl," just pretend I saw it, got scared, ran off, and am throwing myself a pity party because of how great you are. Anything that helps you sleep at night, kiddo.
Gone for real this time. Any MonxDoT stupidity is going to fall on deaf ears from now on. Not that I cared what you had to say in the first place, but it was indeed very pertinent to flatten you like this. It's the only way people like you will learn.
#249
May 09 2006 at 3:20 PM
CellyO wrote:
Blah blah blah.
#250
May 09 2006 at 3:30 PM
"Removing the gil buyers wouldn't make a scorpion harness one million gil, and you know it." - CellyO
I keep saying that, but no one is listening.
I keep saying that, but no one is listening.
#251
May 09 2006 at 3:51 PM
When I join a party, I expect everyone to bring a pointy object appropriate to his or her job and try their damnedest. I'm not looking down on someone for having a pointy without a white square around it. If someone shows up to my party in mostly AF, I'm not going to be running a damned parser and making sure he's doing the damage the one guy did that one party, and meeting his "potential." I'm not scanning our exp per level looking for an excuse to kick him out.
For those who work hard for their gear and this game, I salute you.
I realize people work hard at their jobs, or at school, earning their allowance, walking the neighbor's dog, whatever. But I just can't find the same respect for people who do what I consider cheating. I'd much rather have a player who realizes how god damned satisfying it is when you finally get something. Even if it's chump change to other people, you know?
I like to be able to go on tangents with people in my parties, and talk about hard work we've done, and how we like it. I like people who can relate what they have now to the stacks of silk/beehive chips they farmed as a newbie.
I don't know. I like people I can talk to, and I have a lot in common with, simply because we both played this game, and had fun with it, and stuck with the busy work.
That make any sense?
EDIT: I can't identify basic geometric shapes.
Edited, Tue May 9 16:58:31 2006 by Uschi
For those who work hard for their gear and this game, I salute you.
I realize people work hard at their jobs, or at school, earning their allowance, walking the neighbor's dog, whatever. But I just can't find the same respect for people who do what I consider cheating. I'd much rather have a player who realizes how god damned satisfying it is when you finally get something. Even if it's chump change to other people, you know?
I like to be able to go on tangents with people in my parties, and talk about hard work we've done, and how we like it. I like people who can relate what they have now to the stacks of silk/beehive chips they farmed as a newbie.
I don't know. I like people I can talk to, and I have a lot in common with, simply because we both played this game, and had fun with it, and stuck with the busy work.
That make any sense?
EDIT: I can't identify basic geometric shapes.
Edited, Tue May 9 16:58:31 2006 by Uschi
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