I support gil buying.Follow

Yes, I support gil buying with every fiber of my being.

... There, now that I've ensured that I'll be defaulted by the 90% of people on this forum that only read the topic and the first sentence, then rate a post, I'll get further into this with only the people who are actually going to listen as my audience.

I support gil buying. No, I do not buy gil. I am a dirt-poor college student who couldn't afford gil if she wanted to, and believes anything past the $15 membership fee for my character and my three mules to be a waste of money I need for food and rent. So, the "u onleh suppert it cuz u'z a gil buyerer" argument, though the trump card of most people's ********* does not apply here.

And no, I do not go to college in China, so I don't support gil buying because it feeds my nonexistent family.

I do, however, strongly support buying gil. If you've been around this game like I have, and been in the amount of parties I've been in, maybe you would too. This is going to sound a little like bragging about my jobs, but don't try to confuse the two, I'm actually slightly ashamed of how much I've played this stupid game. But, I am a WHM75, BLM75, BRD75, DRG73, PLD66, NIN60, THF54, WAR/MNK/RNG/SAM/RDM/SMN 37, and no other job I have is below L:10.

Yes, it's sad. Yes, I know. But that is neither here nor there. The point is, in my extensive experience with EXP parties, I have been in my share of bad ones. I've seen a Warrior with equipment so bad that he missed a whole Rampage on a Very Tough enemy. I've partied with a Ninja in the 40s who did not have Utsusemi: Ni because he couldn't afford it. I've had a Ranger in my party meleeing with daggers and not shooting arrows because they were too expensive. I've invited a full AF Monk with a L:50 weapon to a L:75 merit party because I figured it was a trustworthy enough venture. I've had my EXP dragged through the ground by these sorts of people, all of whom don't buy gil.

On the other hand, I've been in parties with Warriors with Peacock Charms, Haubergeons +1 and all sort of crazy equipment, who know so little about the game that you can be sure they didn't earn any of it. But, they did their job, because it's brainless work playing a melee damage dealer, and the EXP came rolling in. I've partied with all sorts of decked out melees, some of which earned all they had, some of which didn't, neither time did I ask or care. In each case that this has happened, I was happier in my party than I would've been with an honest gimp, any day.

.. And no, I'm not saying everyone who buys gil is a bad player. That's just stereotyping, and there are plenty of gil buyers who keep it a secret and no one ever knows, who are very respected players across all servers. In fact, usually one's book knowledge of FFXI has very little bearing on their ability to do their job. I've seen people who know a heck of a lot about the game come out and stink up the joint in a party, trust me.

But, the bottom line, the overriding factor of this game, is how much EXP you get per hour. You can tell me you'd take an honest party of hard-working Joes and Janes without good equipment, bringing in 3,000 EXP an hour, over a group where you and five gil buyers tear up the area for 6-8,000 EXP in the same amount of time if you want. Trust me, I won't believe you unless you make a really good case for yourself, because morals are out the window at that point. Nearly everyone will turn a blind eye to the blatant signs of bought gil when faced with going literally twice as fast as a gimp party, and I will eagerly admit I'm no exception. Forget morals, making a statement and playing with badly-equipped EXP voids isn't worth the time I have to devote to it.

I understand the fact that gil buying messes up the economy. I saw it firsthand over Christmas when Behemoth Hides were 20 million gil each on my server. I broke a pair of Unicorn Leggings someone was having me make, and they quit the game because their life savings was gone in that one second. I felt bad about that, that inflation can ruin a person the way it ruined my client. But, life goes on. Inflation is only temporary, and only half caused by gil buying anyway. The other half is Japanese players who don't buy gil, but have an infinite supply, and will pay whatever it takes to get an item. Hence why Gun Belts jumped from 30,000 to 7 million gil in one sale on my server. Risatan to Misapon is definitely not a gil buyer sale, I can assure you. Although gil buyers are responsible for part of the problem, and I acknowledge that, it's not the whole deal or even close.

But why, if these things happen in the economy, do I still support gil buying? Well, I am an endgame player. I have a L:100 craft and endgame linkshells, I have no shortage of money and, if things ever look grim, I just spam craft and I'm back on my feet. The average economy that players toil under doesn't affect me anymore, so I'm free to not care about it. I am not the only endgame player in this sort of situation, either. Many of my friends are also free of the shackles of the economy, and can concentrate soley on playing the game.

I feel bad for people who see the items they desperately want being pricejacked, and then bought by some gil buyer or loaded JP player, but there's nothing I can do about it. Regardless of whether or not I support or protest the sale of gil, it will continue unabated. There's no use trying to fight it.

... But, back to the topic at hand. A lazy person who won't go out and farm, craft, camp NMs and do whatever it takes to get good equipment is a worse burden to a party than any gil buyer could ever be. In melee jobs in particular, it's not enough to know what you're doing, you need the money to back it up. Ninja, an increasingly popular job, can only function if the person is loaded--both with talent and gil. The almighty dollar is the overriding force in the efficiency of most jobs to a party.

Do I prefer honest, hard-working people who got their money legitimately, but still tear enemies apart as well as or better than any gil buyer? Of COURSE I do. Those are my favorite types of players, and if everyone was that way, I would be protesting the sale of gil like the rest of you.

But, we live in the real world here, and the general mentality of players on FFXI is "if I can't afford it, it's optional." Erase is optional, Utsusemi: Ni is optional, elemental staves are optional, food is optional, critical spells and items are optional, everything that makes a player worth a party spot is considered in this day and age to be OPTIONAL. And trying to be anything but a sponge is most definitely optional.

To be a worthy party member, a person needs certain things. The only ways to get those things are to go out and work hard, level a craft and take part in a good linkshell... or to buy gil. While I would prefer the former to the latter, I would take the latter in a heartbeat over just doing neither.

I've had too many parties ruined by lazy sponges and people who won't earn money to care how they get gil anymore, as long as they have it. If that means buying gil, I support their decision to do so, because it'll lessen the amount of horrible parties significantly.

In a utopian world, no one would have to do their part to contribute to a party. But FFXI is no utopia. I support people doing what they have to to contribute to my parties, even if what they have to do is buy gil. They're wasting their money, but hey, I don't know them. They can do whatever they want the other 364 days of the year, but as long as they come prepared to EXP and put their whole heart into it while they're there, I couldn't possibly care any less if they have bought gil, have stolen items, have MPK'd people for NMs. It all just seriously doesn't matter to me.

Ethics are out the window. The only true factor in this game is how fast a party gets EXP. Put your morals aside and think about your character, because it's a video game, and you play it to have fun. Go out and fight for your causes in the real world, where your voice could actually help a lot of good things. Leave FFXI for enjoyment and the betterment of your character.

Now default me please, any publicity is good publicity. Agree with me or disagree, I'm just happy people have opinions. :3

Edited, Fri May 5 14:06:55 2006 by CellyO

Admin Edit: Locked for necro posting.

Edited, Apr 5th 2008 5:01pm by Exodus

I don't care if this website stands for the slaughter of kittens and puppies, as long as there's good discussion here.

I have no morals.

it's OK, so does Feba.

I would definately take the 3,000 xp per hour party over the 6-8,000 gil buyer party. And I honestly don't really care whether you believe me or not. My morals aren't going to go "out the window" because of how fast I can level up in a video game.

My jobs levels are no where near where yours are. I've been playing over a year. My highest job is a lvl 62 whm. And that's my static party job. My static party, where we don't buy gil, we help each other get our AF, and we only pt once a week. Most likely, it'll be the first job I get to 75. But I don't play the game to race to lvl 75. I play to have a good time, hang out with my friends, make new friends, and just have fun. I am a firm believer in that gil buyers / gil sellers play a LARGE part in helping prices to get so high that people can't just enjoy this game, it has to be like a job. You have to constantly wonder how you can make money. You have to grind out crystals or silk threads instead of lvls with friends. It's boring, but it's what you have to do in order for people will think you're worthy enough to party with them because you have the gear that's required for your level.

You know, so that people won't expect you to slow down their xp in a party because they don't buy gil.

You hit the nail right on the head. Rate up to you, excellent post! I agree with you to a "T". Now, I may not go and buy gil, but I could really care less about others that do. The economy already went out the window, so if you do what you need to do to get ahead in this game, then by all means that's fine with me. True, gil buying raises prices, but so do the people that are willing to pay those prices. It's a catch-22. All I know is that I am happy where I am as a player, being I've been playing almost a year. I can keep a steady gil-bank with some crafting and farming and that's fine with me.

Belkira, I respect the moral stand you would take, though I couldn't agree with it. You gave the sort of good reason I was asking for for doing so, so I'm actually really happy with your answer. I'm a much more jaded player than you are, I don't take moral stands anymore, but I'm glad to see that people still would. Half the reason I said what you quoted was to see if anyone actually had a reason past just saying "bcuz" for doing so, and you do. Bravo.

Also, I do encourage people to make their own money. That was the major point of my post. I was simply saying that I'd rather a person bought gil than did nothing, not that I'd prefer they go blow their paychecks on gil before trying to do the work.

Anyone you invite to a party is a gamble, and when someone gets to the team, I'm too compassionate to kick them no matter how bad they are. There's an actual person behind every character, and I try to tell them what they can be doing better and nurture them into being better players if I do have them. But, I'd still prefer killing machines any day of the week, who I didn't have to talk to, and brought me good EXP.

I prefer statics to pickups anyway though. <.<

Double edged sword i suppose. Truth behind the words above thats for sure. Exp gets boring after a while on any job. I am enjoying lvling the lowbie Blu, and have had some fun exp parties with REAL-newb's not noob's, and they have draged exp down while they learned there role in their job.

Again, its clearly stated, this is an endgame opinion...free of the constraints that bind alot of players that do not take the time to learn how to make gils, or did not have restraint over the dec to feb craziness of the economy...so take whats said above with a grain of salt...

hell take what's posted in all forums with a grain of salt...

I don't require people to have the best gear in order for them to party with me, but like others i like people to do their job...or atleast learn how it should be done...don't like a persons gear, give them advise and don't invite again without finding out if they have better gear??

food usuage, is not optional...its pretty much required...give them food? show them the value? TEACH and move on...

As for Japanese players not buying gil...thats a laugh (hope the above comments are sarcastic)...as many JP's buy gil as we, NA's do, as EU's etc...the economy did not go nuts while JP's slept...and the above speaks of JP awe or hidden sarcasim...hopefully the second, not the first as they are no better than any other player on any given day (atleast now and have been so for the past year).

As to breaking such an expensive synth leading to a person quiting...if you where gonna charge for the hq...you should have replaced it...unless that was stated in your agreement before hand, (ie I break it, you lose, I synth I win, I HQ I win again)...

I don't really care about gil buying, I am not gonna flip out on people who are for or against it...it, like the person above, does not really effect me to any great degree that i can't compensate in some way...i go broke, i craft, undercut the market huge, make gils by volume and move on...again, an endgame opinion...


I ramble and have lost track of my thoughts i will edit later...

The utility spells and equipment are not that expensive. Granted we can't expect every War to have a full Unicorn set for example, but the basic stuff doesn't really cost that much. Elemental Staffs and spells like Erase can be bought simply with the beastmen seals you get a long the way.

You're basically saying that the utility equipment/spells are impossible to get for the average lazy player. I'm saying that even a lazy player should have enough gil to buy the basic necessities. Everything else is superfluous. Peacock charms and Scorpion Harnesses +1 don't make the difference between 3k/hour parties and 8k/hour parties. Granted they help, but from what I can tell (I've been playing since the NA release) this game relies much more on skill than it does equipment.

A bad player isn't bad because he didn't buy gil. He's bad because he doesn't understand the mechanics of how to play his job.

**example** (just had to add this)
I join a ~lvl65 party in Bibiki Bay. I notice we have a Galka Blm and my initial impression was worry that he wouldn't be able to hold his own. Then I notice how much mp he has and I'm astonished. Unable to resist the urge, I /check him, only to see... he's got the absolute best possible equipment possible. I'm no longer worried. However, that worry quickly returns during the first few fights when we discover that he has no idea how to play his job, much less MB. He doesn't even understand the concept of hate.

To make a long story short, we kicked him before we even had a replacement. Gear means a lot less than you think in the grand scheme of things.
**end example**

A good player isn't good because he bought 500mil gil from IGE to pimp out his character with +1 gear. He's good because he understands how to play his job.

NQ gear is just fine, as long as it's the right NQ gear. It does not cost a fortune to do well in exp parties.

There's no rationalizing gilbuying.

I would rate the OP down, but I respect a well presented and well thought out opinion.

Edited, Fri May 5 14:55:43 2006 by SeleneGaruda

Fair enough. I'm just too talkative for my own good. ;)

Selene, that's just my point. Elemental staves, arrows and a few scrolls here and there really aren't that expensive, but there are people all over every server who are still unwilling to earn the money to buy them. I've played with countless. Regardless of whether or not it's so hard to earn that kind of money, the fact remains that there's a large crowd of players who don't. Players who log in and only EXP, neglecting to do anything outside of a party to make any gil whatsoever, skipping whatever they can. A Warrior who misses a whole Rampage doesn't have passable NQ equipment, nor does a Ranger who won't fire arrows and melees with daggers. I love passable NQ equipment as much as you do, and have no problem with people who use it, but I was really talking about those who don't even go that far.

.. And yes, I'm aware that gil buying does have an adverse effect on parts of the game, and gil sellers themselves are total locust pests. But, life goes on, and this is going to be here forever, regardless of how long we protest. We all live in a Vana'Diel that will always have gil buying, so we've got to come to terms with how we feel about it, because it's not going away.

----

Edit: Micitan. I don't buy gil. I don't live with my parents or mooch their money, otherwise I wouldn't be broke. I'm not male, so I have no *****, real or E-. To top it all off, I'm pretty sure you didn't read a word of my post. Are you one of those topic-and-first-sentence readers I mentioned right off the bat? Weren't you supposed to just rate me down and go away? XD

Edited, Fri May 5 15:03:20 2006 by CellyO

CellyO, the type of player you describe as being unable to even buy the basic necessities is extremely rare in my book. What's the % of people who play ffxi that fall into this category? You're saying it's this percentage that makes gilbuying ok.

As far as I can tell, this part of the ffxi community that falls under the "ok to buy gil" category for you is as least less than 5%. It's ok for this minority to support the rmt that ruines the experience for the large majority of the community?

Credos, I said I prefer players like you, we don't actually have a disagreement. Go back and read the topic.

Selene, it's a large enough number that I've had many parties ruined by it. I'm not supporting full-scale gil buying for all, I'm saying that it's better than doing nothing to support yourself. One faulty member can kill the EXP per hour of a whole team, and the less of those, the better. In pickup parties, it's common enough that it happens once or twice a week, and since I've been playing for over two years, it's enough to drive me to this point. Perhaps your server is better off than mine, perhaps it's not and you're just getting lucky, but there are EXP sponges like this in all walks of life.

Dragonbruce, we can hardly compare this to slavery. It doesn't even compare well to blood diamonds or retail clothing sweat shops. Even though all are money-making ventures, gil buying doesn't take such horrible advantage of a person as these other things, or anywhere close. Being a gil seller is actually a fairly good job in China, and they are hardly forced to work until they die. ... Unless you were comparing us players to the slaves, and the slight inconvenience it all brings upon us to the plantations, but that's even sillier. Gil selling will stop when SquareEnix puts a stop to it. They know it's a problem, they know everyone's frothing at the mouth for a fix, they're not ignorant of the issue. They're the only ones with any power to do anything, and a grass-roots movement on a message board won't change this.

Edited, Fri May 5 15:14:12 2006 by CellyO

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?fitem=1789 ?