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RNG's in HNMLSFollow

#1 Jul 07 2005 at 12:37 PM Rating: Default
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I have never posted anything before here but I do have a general question that I would like to get everyone feedback on. Especially RNGs that are currently in a HNMLS.

Recently several friends and I joined a newly started HNMLS. (it has only been around for about 2 months) Their rules were simple and items are given out on a point system and if you can use the item. Fair enough right?
Well points are accumulated by being in sky helping the LS, IE: You helped farm pop items for 6hrs in sky you got 6pts ect.
We got around to killing gods and recently we were finally able to kill Kirin. At first they wanted to sell the Shinning Cloths which made a few WHMs kinda upset if you know what I mean. So they decided that the WHM with the most points(minimum50) would be allowed to lot the shinning cloth, and that then would reset their points.
Ok so far not to bad right.
Well heres the part that upset me. For the Osodes (every RNGs dream) the leader said that there was "4 MAIN RNGs" (leader showing favoritism ~_~;) in the LS
(currently there are about 8-10RNGs total that actually show up) These 4people were given the Osodes with our regard to their total points (although their points did get reset to zero)After the "4 MAIN RNGs" received their Osodes the leader then stated that the next Osodes that dropped will be given to the people with the highest points and if they can wearit.
IE: RNGs do not get first choice on the Osodes. The 75 WARs MNKs BRDs SAMs in the LS would now be able to get the Osodes over all the RNGs. as long as they had the points for it.
Does this make any of you RNGs upset yet?
Well this is my question, if the LS is point based then why the heck did 4 RNGs get it first with out regard to their points (The leader had already stated to the LS several times before we were even able to beat Kirin that these 4 people are the first to get the Osodes no matter what) Why pick favorites then turn around and say "Ok now its back to a point system again good luck all you RNGs in the LS I hope you save up those points for a long time, maybe you'll get lucky"?

I am not a RNG in fact I have never even unlocked RNG yet >_<; But I am not oblivious to how much RNGs do for a HNMLS they by far spend the most money and they work hard for ever pop item, and every GOD that is killed.
(and in that LS die the most as well)
I fail to see how a leader can pick 4 RNGs lock them in for an Osodes and then go back to a point system. It should be one way or another.
Either all RNGs get first choice on the Osodes willing that they have points and that they are 75.
Or ANY one who can wear it and ANY one with the points gets the Osodes.
NO PICKING FAVORITES
NO 4 MAIN RNGS (if you a RNG you work hard and spend a lot of money anyways)
NO SAYING THESE PEOPLE GET THEM OSODES FIRST BECAUSE I SAID SO.
Now I could be way out of line. Like I said I don't even have RNG unlocked but I am not a noob I have 75SMN,70BRD,67DRG,65RDM NONE of which really qualify for anything that Kirin drops. So I am not posting this out of greed but I am in fact posting it out of concern that if this is the way all HNMLS's are then ***** it I don't want to be a part of any.
Sorry for the long post but I would appreciate anyone's feedback on this EXCEPT the "4 MAIN RNGs" and the LS leader of course you guys would be a little bias ^-^;;

EDIT: Below is the LS rules
http://www.neveraftergaru.proboards7.com/index.cgi?board=Business&action=display&thread=1115211302
Once I reread the LS Rules I realized that its kinda of sketchy on what the LS should be doing with the drops. Its not 100% point based rules but what happened the other day certainly does fit with in the rules either.


Edited, Thu Jul 7 20:05:58 2005 by ShiroWolf
#2 Jul 07 2005 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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it's stupid, just quit the LS.

you should get another one easily.
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#3 Jul 07 2005 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
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The fact that you say there are 8-10 RNG in the LS and the leader decides that 4 get precedent over the others shows he is clearly playing favorites.

Worse, using his own logic the next drops should have gone to the 'lesser' RNG before being opened up to the general LS. So he wasn't playing favorites to those RNG, he was playing favorites directly to those 4 players.

Obviously you have had your first taste of why I despise so many HNMLS. The majority seem to be run according to the rules of 7th grade Studnt Council.


Good luck finding a new one.
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#4 Jul 07 2005 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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Actually it's my LS and the reason I called them the 4 main rangers is because they are at just about every event and helped me build up the LS from the ground up. They got "favoritism" as a thank you for teaching all the newer members...many of whom only exp'd in sky before joining the LS.

The RNG in question is Worthlessone. He attended a fair amount of events, but was with the LS for only 1 month or so and got the Crimson hands abj and Sieryu's Kote if I remember correctly. It's not like I shafted him, he just lost it when I told him future osodes will be based on points.

1 hr = 1point, I've said it 100 times that your points are a pure reflection of your work. Just becuse you are a RNG soed not give you preference over other jobs who could also benefit from such a piece of equipment. WAR MNK BRD SAM RNG etc all have some use for it.

Some people have cashed in their points for gil and some decided to hold points for equipment. This is their reward for hard work, some would rather have gil. It's not easy taking 40 people and teaching them how to farm and kill, then getting them the things they want/need.

Just because someone is a RNG doesn't make them entitled to whatever they want. Sadly the amount of RNG on Garuda has become 10x what it was pre-COP and I did not want to give a new RNG (worthlessone) preference over someone who was there for the whole 2 months trying to get an osode. THOSE 4 MAIN RANGERS WERE THE BACKBONE OF THE LS SINCE DAY 1. THE RNG WHO LEFT WAS STILL PRETTY NEW There are members who were there for the same amount of time as him that accumlated twice the amount of points as him. RNG shouldn't get preference when others work harder, that's my beef as a BLM who pretty much helps others to get mitts and...o yeah nothing.

Ironically enough he was the next one to get Osode based on the points after that night, but he threw a fit and made a stink so we kicked the drama out of the house. I'm sending Shirowolf and Worthlessone their share of the gil tonight so I'm not shafting them either. Hate me, hate my sytem, go mooch off someone else's work.

What kills me is when people feel entitled to things when they show up for MAYBE half of the planned events (usually when it directly benefits them). Shirowolf go join MPK or Stelvia (they'll take you but I doubt they'll take Worth) and good idea on dragging your drama **** out to the main forums. I try to take care of people fairly, and it isn't easy. Go make your own LS with your little boyfriend and see who gets the drops. It's not easy trying to appease 40 people, and I ******* hate whiners. bte nice 180 you pulled on us last night guys...

-Hop

(sorry for the semi-rant, but it ****** me off when people only tell half of the story to make others look bad while making themselves seem like angels)
#5 Jul 07 2005 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Nice to hear both sides. AS they say, 3 sides to every story: yours mine and the truth. But good to see none the less.

IMO the preference thing is understandable as presented, but in my view still not exactly just for the rest of the LS. but at least I understand where you are coming from.

personally neither of my LS has members I consider 'the back bone'. Do I have some who help more than others? Yep. Does this place them somehow above the others in importance, preference or anything? Not a single bit.

Not condoning or condemming. Just my 2 gil.
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#6 Jul 07 2005 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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By the way I love RNG's...helpful, unselfish, teamplaying RNGs. Too bad its the bad apples that ruin the reps of all the good ones.


#7 Jul 07 2005 at 1:28 PM Rating: Default
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/out-of-topic
Well, I don't know anything about HNMLS's, but.... that point system doesn't make any sense.

I'll take your whm example. Lets say the situation is as follows: WhmA has 200 pts, WhmB has 50 pts. LS kills one Kirin. Yay, shining cloth drops. WhmA lots and gets it, and loses 200 pts. LS kills another Kirin. Yay, another shining cloth drops. WhmB lots and gets it, and loses 50 pt. Please tell me I misunderstood... please, please.

Sorry, had to ask about that, it sounds so weird. /em hides scared of all the HNMLS's and their drama.
/out-of-topic end

On the actual topic, I agree that there's no reason that rngs should get anything over any other job that could use it just because they spend gil and have to do a lot against gods (blame squeenix for making melees hit for nothing and ranged attacks nof affected... maybe it'll change with the update)... you chose your job. I'm not going to comment on the "playing favorites" part, because I don't know about the LS and I wasn't there when it happened, so I can't possibly know the full story.
#8 Jul 07 2005 at 1:37 PM Rating: Default
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My whole point was there should have never been 4 MAIN RNGs if they in fact are the backbone in the LS then their points should prove that right?
You should have left the Osode completely open to who ever can wear and who ever had the highest points plain and simple like everyother drop was. What makes those 4 any better then anyone else? The points would show their hard work right? That is the whole reason you have a point system to reward other for their hard work. Why did you have to CHOOSE them? Bassed on your system no one should have to question it. My issue was that YOU PICKED THESE 4. You told everyone that they are getting the osodes first and that is that. You didnt say they have the highest points or they are able to wear it and have the highest points. You just plain out said they get the Osodes first end of story.
If you want to have your LS bassed on points, base it on points and thats should make everyone happy. Dont say "these people help more so I want them to get the Osodes first". If they cashed out their points last month then that means they had the EXACT same points as everyone else this month. That doesnt put them ahead of anyone.
And furthermore I never said names. I am speaking on my own accord I don't need you to toss in Worth just because you think it was him that was mad at you. I am, in fact the one who thinks it is unfair that you can't stick to your point rules. I am not bashing you and I am not trying to make you look bad. I did not tell half the story so don't get mad at me or anyone else for what you did.
I agree that those 4 RNGs do work hard and helped the LS out alot. BUT the simple fact is you said the LS was point based right?Then let it be point based dont just pick those 4 people because you think they do a better job contributing to the LS thats an opinion that can be objected to. POINTS on the other hand you can't really object to can you?
#9 Jul 07 2005 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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Those 4 had the highest points anyways Shirowolf, it was posted on the forums. The only reason KM didn't take the first one is becuase he is too **** nice :p

Also, about the WHM points issue...it works out ok since our highest WHM had 70 points when she got the 1st cloth and I'm pretty sure the others will be 50-70points when they get theirs as well.

I don't need to defend myself anymore, you obviously weren't happy so you left. Kudo's to you. I don't and can't force people to stay. If people didn't like the lotting rules they shouldn't have joined in the first place.

We try to be like family and take care of one another, but I guess that's not good enough for some. Go to the other HNM shells on our server and tell me what you think of the people there...I'm done with this conversation, get your counseling from people outside of the LS if it makes you fell better, I'm done with yuo after the gil is sent. Good bye
#10 Jul 07 2005 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I have no idea why there isn't set amount of points per item and why Shinning cloths and Osodes are a complete reset of points. But what you say is true, I never thought of it that way but now I am very glad I am not a WHM or RNG ^-^;;
#11 Jul 07 2005 at 1:58 PM Rating: Decent
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All I am saying is you stated that they get the Osodes no matter what, This was before we even were able to beat kirin. When the Shinning Cloth dropped you looked at the point list and said Gina had the highest points she gets the cloth. THAT is fair.
But for the Osode drops it was different you told us:
"This is the Osode order:Xy,Shua,Enoeht,KM"
You never ONCE stated Xy has the most points he gets first Osode
You made an Osode drop order for 4 people there is NO WAY you could know their FUTURE points especially since the 4 osodes spanned JUN-JUL
I don't think you should ever have PICKED them like I said if you would have stated:
"Soandso has the highest points they get the osode"
Then there would have been no doubt to your actions.
But YOU PICKED them. That in my opinion shows favoritism.
#12 Jul 07 2005 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
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For the leader of the LS
Quote:
Noun
1. favoritism - an inclination to favor some person or group


Well, that doesn't help much. What is "favor?"
Quote:
Verb
1. favor - promote over another; "he favors his second daughter"


You favor those who helped you build the LS (they just happen to be RNG's) you can't claim that you don't. Since they helped you build the LS you automatically gave them *the best* body piece in the gear. Would you have done it if one of those weren't a RNG? I'd be willing to bet that you started the LS with more than yourself and the 4 RNG's. Either way, you showed favortism and, in my opinion, thats just not right. Linkshells put a point system into effect so that ANYONE who participates enough can acquire an item. If you have a LS point system and someone wants a RA/EX piece of gear that is useful for them, its there choice. In this case, anyone with points should have been allowed to get the item in question (Kirin's Osode.) If only those 4 have the points to get it, so be it. But who is to say someone that spends 100 hours farming in sky hasn't put as much effort forth as those who helped you start the linkshell?

To the OP
It's clearly favoritsm. No matter how you cut it. I'd talk to the leader and tell him to change his ways, or I'm out. If my LS leader did that I'd have some serious issues. If people meet the critia to get an item, they should have an equal chance as anyone else.

EDIT : You should really listen to what members are telling you... espically if you are having a lot of people leaving. Simply remaining bull heading and on track of "If you didn't like the way we did it you should have left." is the wrong way to go about it. Adapt and change your methods if your crew isn't happy.

Edited, Thu Jul 7 15:10:54 2005 by Trinitee
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#13 Jul 07 2005 at 2:13 PM Rating: Default
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I agree with you about the favoritism thing.

I deeply disagree with your idea that the osode is a ranger prize, every job that can wear it should have the same chance to get it.

Edit: Yeah the leader seems a complete idiot, you don't just invent rules overnight.

Edited, Thu Jul 7 15:24:29 2005 by Ilean
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#14 Jul 07 2005 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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The OP lost my respect when he insinuated that RNGs work harder than anyone. Giving someone preference just because they play RNG is stupid and if my LS did that I'd leave.

The OP said that the leader made it clear before they even got the claim that those 4 RNG would get the first Osodes. Yes that's favoritism and everyone knew it was there going in. Too late to complain about it now.

If the point system awards players for their contribution then it makes sense that any player with enough points can lot on the drop, not just RNG.

It would also make sense to make each drop a person wants to lot on cost a fixed amount of points. So, you'd spend your points for the right to lot on a drop not just loose all of the points you have.

Sounds fair to me.
#15 Jul 07 2005 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sorry if I made it seem like I ment that ONLY RNGs deserve the Osode or that they work HARDER. That infact is not what I ment.
I just ment that they do work hard and spend alot of gil. I don't think I ever said they were better then any other job or class, or that they work any harder then the next.
The reason I put such an emphisis(sp?) on RNGs is because in that LS they do have priority over items IE:CrimsomGauntlets,Seiryu Kote, and originally it was stated that they would have priority on Osodes as well.
I am not saying that it was right Im just saying that is how the LS is set up.
In the LS there is specific items that have a job priority according to the leader.
Which actually was an issue for me When a brand new BLM who was there with our LS for the first time was allowd to have Zmitts over me, even though I had already had well over a months worth of points accumulated. Because BLM>SMN for Zmitts ~_~;
Needless to say yes I did get the mitts after all BLMS recieved them first and YES the BLM who got the mitts over me left the LS right after /(>.<)\
#16 Jul 07 2005 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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I'm just gonna turn QM on from now on and say F the abjurations and take a wind crystal to the next osode so that I don't have to listen to crap like this anymore.

That way there is no favoritism or complaining. Moral of the story is: Can't keep everyone happy all the time no matter how hard you try. Some people will always find something wrong everything, that's just what keeps them ticking...

Is shining cloth the NQ desynth for Osode? only one way to find out
#17 Jul 07 2005 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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Making up rules as you go is why alot of HNMls' fail.

As a leader, you came up with an idea of a points system as a fair way to prevent leeching within the ls. You earn points for your time and effort helping the ls. Thats great, I'm a fan of this system.

Now for point systems to work, items must have assigned values right? What was the assigned value of Osode and Shining Cloth? Because you're relatively new linkshell and are advancing quite well, it looks to me like people haven't got the points needed for these items?

You as leader need to hold on to these items until people have the amount of points needed to purchase them. Even if you've posted job priority on it,(which is so wrong) nothing should be given out until enough points are accumulated. And should be available to the first person to collect said amount of points.

Edited, Thu Jul 7 16:02:16 2005 by Vaala
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#18 Jul 07 2005 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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If those 4 RNGs helped build the LS and were there from day 1 I don't see where the issue is. Those who have been the longest and work the hardest should be first in line.
#19 Jul 07 2005 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
He could also mean that those 4 rangers have been the most loyal or been there the longest or participate the most. A backbone per say.
I know it really sucks when you give someone something then they run off to another ls immediatly after receiving the item they wanted. And that's happened in my ls A number of times. Item's are given out in order to strengthen your ls not for personal gain. And when you give someone something and they leave its a tremendous waste of time for everyone who participated in getting the item to begin with. Not to say anything about the people in your ls because
I obviously don't know them but this could have something to do with the reason they got taken care of first.
#20 Jul 07 2005 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm just gonna turn QM on from now on and say F the abjurations and take a wind crystal to the next osode so that I don't have to listen to crap like this anymore.

'atta boy. Destroy something of value to teach us allakhazam'ers a lesson. It will really hurt me if you actually decide to do this.

Quote:
That way there is no favoritism or complaining.

Yes, there is favoritsm. You said "These 4 get the Osode, no matter what." That, my friend, is favoritsm. No matter how you want to slice it.

Quote:
Moral of the story is: Can't keep everyone happy all the time no matter how hard you try. Some people will always find something wrong everything, that's just what keeps them ticking...

No, people don't like to see favoritsm. Treat people fairly and they will have no right to complain. If you had let everyone who had enough points lot on the Osode, I'm sure a lot of us wouldn't give sympathy to the person(s) who lost the lot.

Quote:
Is shining cloth the NQ desynth for Osode? only one way to find out

Once again, it will really hurt me if you decide to do that. Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic... I swear.
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#21 Jul 07 2005 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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Favouritism should be shown to those who have been there the longest and worked the hardest. Why should JoeBob who's been in the LS for a month get to lot (regardless of points) against MrUber who's been with the shell from the get go?
#22 Jul 07 2005 at 3:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Favouritism should be shown to those who have been there the longest and worked the hardest. Why should JoeBob who's been in the LS for a month get to lot (regardless of points) against MrUber who's been with the shell from the get go?


Favoritsm should not be shown to people, simply because they have "been around longer." I've been in my linkshell for over a year and half. I was one of the original members, consquently, I should get any god drop I want... right? No! I show up for god farming when I can (which isn't very often with a 30 hour/week job and full time in college.) The items should go to people who put the time into getting god items to pop the gods. THIS IS WHY POINT SYSTEMS WERE CREATED. They were made to reward people who put the effort into getting the LS to the god fight. If I was farming non-stop to help the LS fight gods, and I had over 100 points... then I have every right to lot on the item, regardless of my time in the linkshell.

You say "regardless of points" when it is NOT regardless of points. It should be completely reliant on points. If you have the points for the item, you can lot on it. If not, then you can't. If no one has the points for the RA/EX item, then ANYONE can lot.

To simply say, "Oh... this item dropped but no one has enough points, so I'm giving it to Bob... because he has been in the linkshell the longest." is simply bad leadership. Reward those who put the effort into making the LS better, not those who have simply been there the longest.
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#23 Jul 07 2005 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
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80.5 3rd osode
120 4th osode by choice
82 2nd osode
88 1st osode

Next closest...37...the ranger who left...anyone else who had WAY more than 50 points couldn't wear it anyways (BLM & PLD) Our Ninjas electerd to take gil over osode...yeah fscking favoritism at its finest. He's crying over something we put a 50point minimum value to. I'm so unfair...

People hate having to wait, that's what there is to it.

Trinitee you're awesome and I wish I could be more perfect like you. I should level SAM up just to be like you then brag about how much sky farming I've done...wooptidoo~

At least if I desynth the osode to a shining cloth the WHMs will be happy, and I can tell you that they don't ***** like 2 of these RNG who thought they deserved the world.
#24 Jul 07 2005 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Im in this LS. The system is actually very very fair. Worthless and Shiro threw a ***** fit. They were handled by points correctly. If they had checked the website instead of crying like pussys theyd of seen it was handled according to the rules that were setup in the begining. All changes to these rules are decided by the ls leadership and they make it easy for the ls to know if anything has a chance of changing. The ls is very fair on every account. Its all fair. Not our fault they threw a fit. You cant keep everyone happy
#25 Jul 07 2005 at 4:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Trinitee wrote:

Favoritsm should not be shown to people, simply because they have "been around longer."


Yes, it should. People who have been in the LS from the start have obviously put more time and effort in, prior to a points system being put in place. If longevity and effort put into the shell prior to the point system was put in place as giving points in the OPs linkshell, they would have dwarfed the newbie members anyways, it's the same shi[/b]t. I'd never join a HNMLS and expect an Osode after a month or before anyone who came before me. To expect that is just stupidity.
#26 Jul 07 2005 at 4:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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When i read the topic i was so sure this would be a RNG wont be wanted in HNM's after the next patch. ^^


But after reading this. I am on engspot side.
Favoritism is good and bad, depending on wich kind.

1. Giving someone a item to thank them for building up the LS.
Is "good" favoritism. They also bought it with their points.

2. Giving someone an item just because hes the RL best friend of the leader. Is bad favoritism.



I dont like point systems at all. I am for giving the item to the one that deserves it, and can have use for it. This way a THF can save up for Osode and get it before a MNK(Wich osode is best for).

I dont like people thats like "I have been here a while, but i havent gone to many events. But i am a RNG, and i need a osode, so i have to get one, or its not fair" kind of people. Just like the OP.

engspot did nothing wrong in giving the osodes to those RNG's.
And it seems to me, that you are doing sky pretty often.
#27 Jul 07 2005 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Those first 4 Osodes were never based on points the leader even said so:
Quote:
I called them the 4 main rangers is because they are at just about every event and helped me build up the LS from the ground up. They got "favoritism" as a thank you for teaching all the newer members...


Furthermore Its nice that they have all those points todate but what were their points when the Osodes dropped? Some dropped in June some dropped in July so the has to be a variance of points between those months.
The fact still is it was never based on points for those 4 people. If the had zero points you would have still given them the Osodes this was clearly stated by you the first time we killed Kirin. Not only that but Im pretty sure you have it posted in your web jurnal as well. This was stated before the drops even happened. If its point based, then how did you know everyones future points?
#28 Jul 07 2005 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Whitewinter you were in that LS for what 2 weeks now? You werent even there when we killed our first 4+ Kirins nor were you there for the first 2 Osode drops
You weren't there when the VERY FIRST Osode dropped or there when Hoppy made the Osode order so I dont think you can really comment...
#29 Jul 07 2005 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
The fact that they kept participating even though they didnt need to seems like it would make them even more likely candidates to receive an osode.. If one payed X% and the next paid Y% when he knew he could get it for no points at all then it seems like hes not there because hes greedy and trying to better himself but the ls as a whole.
#30 Jul 07 2005 at 5:09 PM Rating: Good
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Shiro: its real easy to look at the forums we have setup and see who got what where there points went everything. I can go look at them and see, its soo easy
#31 Jul 07 2005 at 5:43 PM Rating: Default
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OK this is the last post from me. I didn't expect it to go this far. More or less what my concern was favoritism and the points rule.
If the rules are items are given by seniority, fine.
If the rules are based on points, fine.
If the rules are based on jobs that can wear the item fine.
Or any combination of those, fine.

But the rules shouldn't have been changed after your first 4 chosen RNGs got the drops. It makes it unfair for all the other thinking that there is set rules for drops when there isn't.
Everyone knew that those 4 would get the Osodes first because that is what you said. Then based on your original LS rules GOD items go to people who 1:Have JOB priority 2:Can wear the item.
And recently you stated 3:GOD items you need a minimum of 20pts or for Kirin item 50pts. Since more then one person fit that description you picked 4 people to get the drops because they deserved them
Finally after 2 months all 4 people you picked received the Osodes.
You then decided to change the rules to most points and whoever can wear it gets the item.
But even with that rule you still don't keep that the case foreverything-
IE:BLM>RDM>WHM>SMN for Zmitts. RNG>ALL for SeiryuKote. MOST JOBs>RDM for CrimsomGear. WHM ONLY for Shinning Cloth.
Just keep the rules the same you can't keep changing them. There can't be exceptions to the rules.(these 4 are the backbone of the LSthey get the first Osodes) Pick What rules you want and stick with them. Make it an all point based LS or Make it JOB based. Just stick to what you chose.
I have no animosity to you or any one in that LS.
I think for the most part you have wonderful members.
I think if you can stick to a specific set of rules and everyone understands them then everything will be just fine.

Edit:
Since you left out the other top points I figured I would post them. These are the top points and who recieced it and who did not.
100pts-yes4th,osode
92.5pts-no
88pts-yes1st,osode
83.5pts-no
82pts-yes2nd,osode
81.5pts-no
80.5pts-yes3rd,osode
Now if this was based on points shouldn't the others been able to lot?

Edited, Sat Jul 9 09:17:55 2005 by ShiroWolf
#32 Jul 07 2005 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, I normally stay out of things like this. I am not involved and wasn't there to know how things really happened.

But it isn't uncommon for companies to give a bonus to employes for long and loyal service. It is up to the leadership to decide such things, and to provide good resons for it. Right or wrong? I don't care.

By the sound of it your LS was killing gods regularly so in time you would have had your chance. And in time YOU would have been one of those long time members yourself, if you had put the same ammount of work into it. ;)

/Phycho~




Edit: I guess that with all the shell hopping going on in this game I like to see loyality rewarded. If people could only be patient and work with what they have, instead of letting others do the work for them, my own LS (wich I have been in since my newbee days) would be able to do Kirin by now.

But then again, that's what the point system is there for, to reward layalty. So I am not siding with either part. Just stating some thougts.

Edited, Thu Jul 7 19:09:25 2005 by Phycho
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#33 Jul 07 2005 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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Shiro, the rules never changed. Ony difference is he said it was the order according to points, it remained that way when osodes were given out. he can go ahead and say it and continue out
#34 Jul 07 2005 at 6:34 PM Rating: Default
11 posts
WW I know you are new to that LS so I guess you havent read the rules yet
This Is RULE 3 and RULE 4 posted ON THE LS WEBSITE

Quote:
3.All God Drops are open lot by job. For example if Sieryu Kote falls, RNG get to open lot on it, if Genbu's Kabuto drops NIN and WAR get open lot on it. If you would like to lot on a 75 God armor I ask that you be within 10k exp of 75. If someone else can equip the armor now and use it, they have rights to it. Abjurations are treated as god armor in this LS except the level to equip is 73.
4.If you don't want to cast lots and would rather clinch in your item, you can "call it" and bid points. Whoever bids the highest points will win the right to be the ONLY lot cast. Keep in mind that these points are deducted from your share of the LS bank, so being the sole lotter on an item will cut into your gilshare.


If you need help finding it heres the link
http://www.neveraftergaru.proboards7.com/index.cgi?board=Business&action=display&thread=1115211302



Edited, Thu Jul 7 20:02:16 2005 by ShiroWolf
#35 Jul 07 2005 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
2 posts
OMFG this is my one and only post about all this **** the reason why the 4 rng got the osode first is they are ls leadership and they where there from the beginning and they did lose points there are many jobs that can use but rng see to think they automaticly have pressedence over everyone but i say **** that everyone has chance to lot it they have the points now that the leaders have their osode and the reason they get first again is because THEY ARE LEADERSHIP IN THIS LS!!!

now as far as rng being the ones that most important and die the most im offended being the 75 pld that cant use osode and die because the rng shadowbind cant stick or doesent come fast enough for me to get away from seiryu 100 fist or suzaku chainspell and i die the most or other pld die the most so as far as being most important a rng is easily replaceable by a 75 blm. well thats all i have to say but dont get me wrrong i love rng i also am lvling my rng to help out our leader is doing a great job and only greedy ******* make a stink like this as far as shiro goes i dont know why he is making a stink it wasnt him that was next im line to get osode it was the selfish rng arguing about it saying that it wasnt fair that he should get chance to lot with a leader when it was know that the leader would get it first oh well bye bye
#36 Jul 07 2005 at 7:18 PM Rating: Decent
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1,215 posts
i agree there should be a priority system, jobs, seniority, points... all that should be taken into consideration.

what would trouble me.. and someone lightly touched on is the resetting of points. not sure if that is the actual rule.. but if whmA with 200pts gets Shining this week.. and whmB with 50pts gets Shining next week... both will be reset to ZERO. that wouldnt be fair for the whm that lost his hard earned 150pts for nothing.

reward the hardworking LS members who've accrued a lot of points. a person has 200pts total? Osode is worth 50? subtract 50 points only .. instead of resetting him to zero points. that would seem more fair.
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#37 Jul 08 2005 at 2:04 AM Rating: Decent
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120 posts
I am also in this LS and feel that what's being said is highly inaccurate. The "4 main rangers" are all founding members that have been in the shell since day 1. They are in sky helping the shell do the boring pop item runs (ya know, the dull-as-dirt ones that you used to complain about having to show up to Shiro b/c it "takes so much time") night after night after night. They have put on hold their leveling, missions, quests, etc for the good of the linkshell so that we can do gods whenever we **** well please .. and they have the sky points to prove it. They are the "4 main rangers" because they are the reliable ones who show up to work every day - and yes folks I mean EVERY day, not just to come fight gods and ***** over drops. And they deserved their osodes before anyone else in the shell for those reasons ... and just like everyone else in the shell - some of whom have done FAR less work and been members for a much shorter period of time, they had their points reset once they got it.

Call them "favorites" if you will ... **** straight, they are *my* favorites as a member of this shell b/c those four people are four of our most reliable and hardworking members. Just look at the point list ... except for 3 other ppl (and I'm one of them so I can say this XD), they had more points than ANYONE else in the shell, RNG or no RNG. I know that when I show up in sky on any given night, they're gonna be there - and they're probably gonna show up early and stay late.

**sidenote ** I'm a RDM ... there's not much in sky that's designed for me. But I show up every day, I do my thing, I have a lot of fun and I make some money. Hopdevil is an excellent leader with a great head on his shoulders and I respect him. So do the vast majority of our members, which is why our shell is getting stronger.
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#38 Jul 08 2005 at 3:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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91 posts
um... i dont even know where to start.. so much drama here.. but ill tried my best..

First and foremost .. im one of those RNG that got the Osode, yes Hopdevil and myself started this LS together. NeverAfter is a drama free enviroment and we treat our members fairly... im very disappointed that Shirowolf would come out here and hang us out to dry, after LS has shown her nothing but love.

We have no favoritism in the LS. You earn what you get. I'm sorry Shirowolf.. why are you speaking for "YOUR RNG", is it because he dont have any balls to speak for himself? Let him replied to this thread... let him come and say that NA havent take care of him, let him come and say that we are unfair. He was in LS for less than 2 f***ing weeks and didnt do a ****** "POPS" with LS, he got a Crimson Hand at lvl 70, and than you f***ing ***** to me to let him lot on a f***ing Kote, when we had another RNG still needs it, I didnt want to hear your **** ******** so I told Peapod to pass so "YOUR RNG" can have it. Now u want to ***** about a Osode?, and how unfair we are?
What the f**** ever Shirowolf. You can take your worthless *** RNG somewhere else, and maybe next time he can learn how to speak for himself...

~krazee~
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Retire: 2007 Oct 30
#39 Jul 08 2005 at 3:20 AM Rating: Default
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You come here, try swearing and down talking your member. Personally, he should leave you guys, he's a smn75, that's just as important. You ARE treating ppl unfair by having this little exception.

Quote:

Actually it's my LS and the reason I called them the 4 main rangers is because they are at just about every event and helped me build up the LS from the ground up. They got "favoritism" as a thank you for teaching all the newer members...many of whom only exp'd in sky before joining the LS.

The RNG in question is Worthlessone. He attended a fair amount of events, but was with the LS for only 1 month or so and got the Crimson hands abj and Sieryu's Kote if I remember correctly. It's not like I shafted him, he just lost it when I told him future osodes will be based on points.

They earned their own points, you played favorites and made an unfair descission. No one should get to be played favorite. It should have been equal in the firt place.

Just because the RNGs are ls leaders, doesnt mean they should get items first, it should be fair. That's corupt leadership.

Edited, Fri Jul 8 04:33:10 2005 by FFXINETBoshi
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#40 Jul 08 2005 at 3:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Edit: Well after reading what your ldr said, cant argue at all.

If thoses 4 RNGs where the backbone of getting the LS started, then maybe they should get thier HUGE OMFG item first, as long as they use points on it.

Now wait I'm confused though, all your points reset when you get an item? Example.

2 lvl75 BRDs want Genbu's Shield...pretty useless item, but I'm sure fun for some. One has lets say 200 points, the other has 50 points. The one with 200 points would lose all of them? That doesnt really make alot of sense.

Edited, Fri Jul 8 04:40:18 2005 by HunterGamma
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#41 Jul 08 2005 at 3:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:


Now wait I'm confused though, all your points reset when you get an item? Example.

2 lvl75 BRDs want Genbu's Shield...pretty useless item, but I'm sure fun for some. One has lets say 200 points, the other has 50 points. The one with 200 points would lose all of them? That doesnt really make alot of sense.


Not any item, just certain items, like osode ^^
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#42 Jul 08 2005 at 4:10 AM Rating: Decent
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584 posts
Granted, I skimmed over a lot of the drama here. In all honesty the job that can best put an osode to work is a ranger. That's my own opinion, so don't get angry. Next is actually Bard. After that Monks. Then Ninjas. Again, my personal opinion.

Using a point system is all well and good. But eventually you're going to run into that mage or some crap that wants to lot on something they can't even wear for a 'future' job endeavor. Point systems SUCK unless regulated with the 'need before greed' aspect of fair play.

Quit the LS and find one more reasonable FOR YOU. Point systems are only good to a certain degree. Maybe for money drops. Item drops are purely given to the people that can best put them to use for the LS and have shown that they care enough to show up. You don't like the way they do things go somewhere else.
#43 Jul 08 2005 at 4:43 AM Rating: Good
3 posts
I'm in this hnmls as well. I know the rules for the points and shiro you are miss understanding or missed some info cause I was one of the first RNGs to get one. The 2 of us that got them on the second Kirin run did have the most points out of all the rngs and everybody esle that could equip them that night and so was the case on the last run.

It just seems that you really didnt want to be in the hnmls to be honest. My resoning in thinking this is that you would of talked about it in a resonable way instead of throwing a 5 year olds temper tantrum. I'm sorry that you feel that your Boy Friend or Husband got the shaft when in all accuality you gave it to him by doing what you did. Its not like that was going to be our last Kirin/Gaurdian run. If you felt that the system wasnt fair then you should have discussed it out instead of arguing about it.
#44 Jul 08 2005 at 5:37 AM Rating: Decent
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2,315 posts

Quote:
Granted, I skimmed over a lot of the drama here. In all honesty the job that can best put an osode to work is a ranger. That's my own opinion, so don't get angry. Next is actually Bard. After that Monks. Then Ninjas. Again, my personal opinion.


I dont know about that, I'd put Errant Houppelande over more or less the same thing. Trade enmity-4 on Errant for MP+30. At which point I'd say RNG=MNK in overall usefullness, with NIN in second. I'm a little suprised NINs in your LS choose to take money over an osode...since Osode carrys with it a high price tag if someone ever wanted to trade it. Ofcourse I agrue this being that MNK uses almost all the stats on the Osode. STR<duh> DEX<duh> VIT<Chakra and WS mod> MND <Chi Blast>

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#45 Jul 08 2005 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
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I am in that ls. The reason why those 4 RNGs get osode first is because they were the leading RNGs who help bulit the ls. I have been in the ls from the start, as an RDM I didn't get anything in sky so far, because we agree to let the jobs who NEED the items to have it first. Zenith items are nice, but BLM and WHM need them more. I want crimison items too, but I don't NEED it that much. RNGs need it. So big deal, they can have it first, and I don't mind waiting. Worthlessone got crimison items last time, and I was there, but since he is RNG, so he is getting it first. I don't even have any problem with it. Those 4 main RNGs in our ls have been in almost all the sky runs, helped farm and stuff. They deserve what they wanted. You and worthless one wasn't even there when they were already working hard in sky. I joined my ls for fun, I don't even care about drops at all. If some other ppl really want it, they can have it first, big deal. But Worthlessone is just one greedy SOB, you guys were still new to the ls, and Worthlessone already got a few crimison items, and now you guys are whining about osode. THIS NOT A LS YOU JUST COME IN AND GET WHAT YOU WANT RIGHT AWAY ! I don't think there are any ls like that. Our point system is very fair, the person who put more effort to the ls get stuff first. You don't come in and get stuff right away, if you want a ls like that, you can join the RMT ls, pay them and get your ****.

We have been doing very well in all our sky runs, and it's not like we are not going to kill kirin again. If you had the patient to wait like a week or 2, you can prolly get your chance to lot on osode. You guys are just showing your true greedy face, and made a bad name for yourself. The 4 main RNGs in our ls have been working hard long ago before you guys were even there, if you join the ls and get osode before them, HOW FAIR CAN THAT BE ? We have very clear rule in our ls, if you think we are some ppl you can use to get what you want, you shouldn't be in our ls at the first place.

Btw, for the ppl who are not in our ls, you guys don't even know the truth. I don't see why it is wrong we have our favorite RNGs. Think about it, if you work hard for a month, then this new guy came in and took what it was suppose to be yours. What would you think ? We are trying to avoid such things. HNM ls is never bad, the bad part is we have greedy ppl like them playing this game.

Edited, Fri Jul 8 09:01:38 2005 by Rosiel

Edited, Fri Jul 8 09:07:20 2005 by Rosiel
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#46 Jul 08 2005 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
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OK Lets get something streight here. First and formost I AM not a RNG I am a SMN so please stop saying I am the greedy one. I am speaking on my own accord. I started this post because I felt that what hop was doing was wrong and when I asked about it Hop told me to go F off and if "I didn't like it you can leave"(don't believe me I have a chat log picture) NOW WHERE DOES WORTH COME INTO PLAY??? He wasnt even there. Why would you guys condem worth or say RNGs are greedy when a SMN started this thread? This just shows how shallow you guys really are. The RNG you are talking about knew he was next to get the Osodes so why would he complain about it?
NOW THE PROBLEM I HAD WITH THE LS WAS THE RULES
Simply put the rules changed constantly. How can you govern 30+ people if they don't have stable rules that are to be followed?
I was there a COUPLE WEEKs after you started that LS. It was my concern that you were changing the rules to much and too drastically. Do I not have any right to ask why he changed the rules? Do I not have a right to express my concern thats others were picked to have the osodes first.
You guys all say that I should have tried to talk this out right? I asked. I did not yell I didn't not say this is wrong, I simply asked what the rules were, and have they changed.
Well when I did ask, I was told that if I don't like it go F off and leave!
THeres leadership at its finest -.-;
The only question I HAD/HAVE was why the rules changed and why has there been exceptions to the rules. Certain people get certain items, and you know what so far none of you have been able to ANSWER that question.
Heck there are even current members asking this question. You know what they havent gotten and answer yet either.
So to all you current people in the LS who think you know the LS rules tell me them because they have changed constantly and no one seems to understand that.

Edited, Fri Jul 8 12:56:59 2005 by ShiroWolf
#47 Jul 08 2005 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think I said "F Off and leave", but I sure wish I did at this point. If you have a screenshot I'd like to have it to post on the LS Board. Let it die, you're gone from LS and I paid you and worthless your gil so we're straight.

{Take Care.}{Good Bye}

These aren't your rules anymore, so don't sweat it. Dismissed
#48 Jul 08 2005 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
then this new guy came in and took what it was suppose to be yours. What would you think ? We are trying to avoid such things. HNM ls is never bad, the bad part is we have greedy ppl like them playing this game.


if you have a functional points system that should not be able to happen.

the senior RNGs that deserve it simply would have more points than "this new guy".

if the system is functional, the leader(s) shouldn't have to makes these changes on the fly and should've just let the points do what they were designed to do.

"the numbers can speak for themselves" if they can't, fix the way the numbers are distributed.
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#49 Jul 08 2005 at 12:59 PM Rating: Good
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hoppy, i'll let you play with my pigatails for an osode. deal? >.>
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#50 Jul 08 2005 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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kk . it's done, let this be the last thread for this subject.
Shirowolf you are gone.. and therefore u have no rules to follow. For ppl that have answered and gave your point of views, that's great and i totally respected every single one of them. Goodbye and take care .. have fun in FFXI
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#51 Jul 08 2005 at 5:57 PM Rating: Default
10 posts
this sounds a lot like what happened in Portrait. right before debutis broke it. hmmm, this might happen here too.
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