War/mnk not a tank?!Follow

First, I didn't post this in the warrior forums, cause they already know war/mnk tanks... but apparantly the rest of the FF community isn't aware of the fact that war/mnk can TANK!

A little background may help, eh? I'm currently leveling my sub for Dragoon, and I never though I'd run into the same problems with WAR. I can sit LFG for hours before being picked up for xp... and never as a tank (oh, btw... I'm the only tank type job seeking in a sea of whm, blm rdm.. etc). I've been in 3 PTs as a DD / SATA Partner. What is going on?

I got invited to a PT the other day and everyone immmediately wondered whether they needed another Tank. "Nope" I said, "I'm the only tank you need. Get a DD."

They ask if I have nin leveled. "Of course I do".
Can you sub it?
"Nope"
Why not?
"Cause war/mnk > war/nin until 50"

At which point I'm lauged at. WTF?! Apparantly, PLD. NIN. and WAR/NIN are the only viable tanks now?!

As I type this, I'm still LFG in Jeuno... and I'm not gonna switch my sub. I'm used to it... I'm a Dragoon!

So, the point of this /rant is... if you think war/nin is the only sub for war to tank with... post here.... please... lets have this discussion and end it.

Edit: Cause I can't sepll.

Edited, Mon Apr 18 19:57:02 2005 by AmbroseOdin

I would kill to have people choose a WAR/MNK over a WAR/NIN. I have my NIN sub leveled properly, but the constant gil drain from shihei seriously hurts a player who gets on at random intervals like me. Not whining, since I always make up the dough somehow, but it gets frustrating.

A good WHM can keep from getting too much hate except in extreme situation in which they would get hate anyways with a WAR/NIN.

Actually, WAR/NIN's keep horrible hate. A simple Cure II still well into the fight can ***** everything up and get the healer hate, you have to make sure to plan things very carefully when healing a WAR/NIN. WAR/MNK on the other hand you have to heal more, but that's not really a problem since they seem to keep hate a little better (below 40 at least, don't know about above that since I haven't really seen many WAR/MNK's since then).

I never said war/nin was better then war/mnk, just saying thats why they sub nin.

Just wanted to make sure that was clear.

If you counter 6 times in a fight, you're pretty much beating a WAR/NIN's damage mitigation. And doing more damage to boot. And if you're shield breaking.. Gods, that's some sweet stuff.

Yep, War/Mnk make pretty good tanks. Of course a PLD is going to be better...but you have to work with what's available.

What you said about War/Mnk being better than War/Nin until around 50 is absolutely right. Subbing NIN is just not worth it at low levels. Even at 24 when you would get Utsusemi...it's still not worth the VIT and HP you get from MNK (not to mention Counter...probably one of the coolest things when you tank as War/Mnk).

As for LFP...I feel for ya. I experienced similar pains when I brought my Warrior up to 30 as a sub for PLD. It sucks hardcore, but stick with it...you need the sub anyway right?

Thank you for posting this. It's funny how NIN sub only gradually became accepted for WAR, then was suddenly the only viable option. Before Rampage, a WAR/MNK with a Great Axe is a far superior damage dealer, and their hate-holding abilities are incomparable. Even damage intake, the one apparent advantage of a /NIN sub, seems to me to be highly debateable. Between Counter, Dodge, and improved VIT, I would be very interested to see if the WAR/MNK in fact didn't do better in this area as well.

I'm also growing pretty suspicious of NIN sub being used over WAR for Thieves, but I suppose that's another discussion...

No they most certainly do not suck. Most WAR 50+ go for a NIN sub so they can have Dual Wield+2, Utsusemi, and Viking Axes eventually I believe.

Both are valid tank options...it's up to the player what to choose. Both subs have great advantages.

Utsusemi continues to be a broken ability, regardless of one of the patches "nerfing" it so that your ninjitsu skill occasionally might matter.

Warriors have the advantage of having Double Attack and Berserk as main job abilities, something other jobs sub warrior for because they add an incredible amount of damage potential. Because the class does not have to rely on any one subjob, they choose ninja because it gives them the ability to get hate from the tank without taking hits, effectively the same reason Ranger subs ninja.

I would *love* to see Utsusemi: Ichi be reduced to a single shadow when used as a subjob. It would only provide the same one hit dodge security that Samurai's Third Eye ability grants, and might actually force us to see some variance in the subjobs we see for both Warrior and Ranger.

Until then, no Warrior is going to tank after 50, and Rangers will continue to be the absolute masters of Damage Dealing because, unlike the Black Mage, they don't have to hold back from fear of death.

The first time you counter the mandys both punches is just awesome.

My main job is a war/mnk that is sitting at 61 atm because I have a damn hard time finding parties that will invite me, seems as though everyone prefers /nin. I don't mind being a SATA partner at all, and if thats what I am in the party to do, then thats fine by me, but I don't have a problem tanking either.

I am going to blow my own horn here for a minute, because I think that a lot of people tend to dismiss the abilities of a war/mnk (at least on my server anyway). I can effectivly hold hate against a nuke happy blm, and have taken hate away from both nin and pld tanks (unintentionally as I don't strive to tank unless it is what I am in party to do).
I have seen posts where people say that a war/mnk isn't even a good SATA partner because they lack the blink that /nin gives to midigate dmg until SATA goes off onto the tank. I personally think thats crap, cause I can regain the hps I lost waiting for SATA with a CureII and RegenII and be perfectly fine.

I am also fine with my role in the party going from tank (which I was tank up until my 50's) to DD. I think being a war is very versatile... just wish others thought the same way.
There are tons more option for subjobs for a war, such as thf or even sam. The gaming experience for war at 50+ doesn't begin and end with being /nin.

I must say, there is nothing wrong with being /nin if that is how you prefer to play the game. I just don't think it is fair to completely dismiss the war/mnk for dd or even tank.

Anywho, thats my opinion... a war/mnk is a good tank and a good DD. It would be awesome if we were given more chances to prove that we are an asset to the party wether we are a tank or not.

Thanks for reading ^^

Does this happen once in a blue moon? Nope.
Does this happen once every ten fights? Nope.
This happens once every three fights.

WAR/MNK rules.

From a mages perspective, I personally don't care what you do, as long as you can keep hate. You can take all the damage in the world, and as long as you keep enough hate for me to intelligently cure you, that's cool, I can figure out how to manage my MP to suit you.

With WAR/MNK, I do have to cure quite a bit, but I can easily get away with it. Add into that that they do nice damage while tanking, I like being a healer with a WAR/MNK.

PLD's are great to party with. They keeo hate very well and they help me out some by curing themselves. I've been with Pally's who kept hate so well I could spam CureIII and Curaga(while in the 40's and low 50's) and not get hate at all.

WAR/NIN's are nice because they don't take a lot of damage and I don't have to cure them often, but when I do I have to be really careful. I've had them lose hate before when after telling my avatar to assault even right after he provoked. When you do have to cure them, you have to be pretty careful that you do it at the right times or be prepared to take a few hits. The only time I really like having a WAR/NIN tank is when I'm SMN and I can keep them alive with Stoneskin.