I tend to wind up in a lot of NA/JP parties, which is something I rather enjoy. Usually it's for XP purposes, but I also do a lot of Mission and Quest parties (as I run a Linkshell on my server that does nothing but AF quests on certain days of the week), and it's not uncommon to have a few high level JPs in the group skilling up, as well as a few low 50's that need a Key, or need a particular NM killed.
As the Alliance leader, it generally falls on me to keep things organized, and I don't mind the task. It also becomes my responsibility to explain what is going on to the JP players in the group. And it's not always as easy a task as communicating in an XP party, because the conditions and goals of our Alliance gatherings are not as obvious.
So with that in mind, I thought I'd write up a list of suggestions on how to get the most out of the Auto-Translator. I'm not going to tell you obvious things like, "Use Auto-Translation in your macros," and things like that. Nor is this a "How To" guide on using the Auto-Translator. Rather, I'm hoping I can expand what seems to be the very limited definition that some people have of what the Auto-Translator is capable of expressing.
Symbols Are Your Friends
I use symbols constantly when trying to express a concept or an idea to the JP players in the group. The bugger about the Auto-Translator is that a lot of useful phrases are just not in there. Very often, simply telling everyone that we are going to a particular place, or telling them someone is coming to meet us, is a bit of a hassle. Even worse is explaining that one person is leaving, but you already have another player coming to take their place. That's where your friend "--->" comes in.
{White Mage} ---> {/logout} -|- {Red Mage} ---> {Garliage Citadel} {Party}
In truth, any concept that there is no direct translation for ought to be expressed in symbols. Don't overlook, as well, the use of emote faces to express a thought or idea. Often a simple ^.^ can convey a range of responses from "You're Welcome" to "Good Idea" to "I appreciate your help".
Not All Things Translate Well
Sometimes what makes sense (in a Tarzan English kind of way) makes absolutely NO SENSE AT ALL when it's translated into Japanese. The best example I can think of this is {Reward}. You've seen people use {Reward} all the time, shouting in Jeuno.
{Teleport-Holla} {Can I have it?} 500 gil {Reward}!
If you actually go through the Auto-Translator, you will see that the word {Reward} is related to the Beastmaster profession, and actually means {Pet Food}. So let's go back to our original sentence.
{Teleport-Holla} {Can I have it?} 500 gil {Pet Food}!
Not so clever now, eh?
Minimal English and Syntax
Many JP players can understand at least the absolute bare bones of English. They know what "OK" means (though it can often be subsituted with a happy face). They know basic interogatories like Who and What and Where (although these are also in the Auto-Translator). But still, even when speaking to a JP that has a bit of English down, it's often better to use the Auto-Translator. Because eventually you will come across a word that is misunderstood. For example, you may be trying to say that the party is not breaking up:
NO! {Disband} ^.^
But that could be interpreted as saying that the party is not good, so you are going to disband it. Syntax is a tricky thing between even similar languages. Between English and Japanese, it's about as easy as Pi (specificly, about as easy as calculating the hundredth decimal place of Pi. . . by hand).
Aliases
Aliases are your friend. That is to say, things surrounded in < > brackets. Anything you incidate via that sort of nomenclature is going to be translated over. Never forget that you can use <me> in the normal party chat, and it will come up with your name. You can also select a party member and use <t> to indicate them. I suggest this one mostly because spelling errors and odd abbreviation when it comes to names can be very confusing across the language barrier, even for those JPs with some English skills.
Strategy and Game Terms
Another problem with the Auto-Translator is that it lacks many basic game terms that we take for granted. Terms like Tank and Puller aren't actually in there. However, I've found that the following terms tend to express the concept of Tank and Puller, and I use them often with much success.
Tank = {Provoke} {Defender}
Puller = {Ranged Attack} {Fishing}
But you can go beyond assigning roles. With a little bit of Auto-Translating, you can even hammer out strategies to make sure everyone is on the same page before the start of a fight. For examlpe, lets say your melees are a NIN, SAM and THF. You want the THF to pull, have the SAM hit the first voke, and then let the THF trick hate onto the NIN at the start of the fight.
{Thief} {Ranged Attack} {Monster} ---> {party}.
{Samurai} {Provoke}.
{Thief} {Sneak Attack} & {Trick Attack} ---> {Ninja}.
{Ninja} {Provoke}.
Conclusion
I think a lot of the time, people don't think about what they can say with the Auto-Translator, and just consider it as a lazy way to finish their sentences for them. It can do a lot more, and knowing how to use it when you have a JP in your party will make them much more comfortable partying with you.
I get a fair amount of invites into JP parties from people I have played with in a bi-lingual group previously. Now, I feel I am a good player, but I also don't believe that I am the best player on my server or anything like that. And as a Samurai, it's not as though my basic job role is desperately hard to come by. So I'd like to believe (and I have been told by a few friends who can speak both languages) that knowing I can use the Auto-Translator well goes a long way towards "inclusion" with this other 50% of the server.
At any rate, I hope this helped some people, and perhaps gave them a broader idea of what ideas, thoughts and concepts the Auto-Translator can convey.
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Getting the most out of the {Auto-Translator}Follow
The Japanese on Caitsith seem to have figured out the (Reward) thing, I've seen them use it too.
Quote:
The Japanese on Caitsith seem to have figured out the (Reward) thing, I've seen them use it too.
And if no then it's pretty funny :)
{Coffer Key} {Help me out!} --> {Reward} then it means
{Coffer Key} {Help me out!} --> {Pet Food}
Btw very good post, rate up.
No, they just like pet food a lot more.
Actually yeh, they have adapted to alot of our auto-translate mistakes, that being I am sure, only one of them.
Actually yeh, they have adapted to alot of our auto-translate mistakes, that being I am sure, only one of them.
ha, i think it's awesome that my linkshell leader (who is JP) started using {Tarutaru} {Meat} {Shield}
it just cracks me up
it just cracks me up
Also note that {Fishing} translates as "Pulling" to the JP, which explains being in a JP party, one might say {Thief}{Monster}{Fishing}{Please}
Therefore, my pulling macro is {Fishing} <t> {Full Attack!}. Lots of NAs ask "why fishing?" at first, but they get it when I tell them.
Therefore, my pulling macro is {Fishing} <t> {Full Attack!}. Lots of NAs ask "why fishing?" at first, but they get it when I tell them.
Great thread.
Another common "error" is prefacing all your calls for assistance with {Help me out!} - this actually translates to mean something along the lines of "Save me from the monster that is chasing me!" So it's a little odd seeing people yell it when they're seemingly safe infront of the AH.
Of course, the Japanese players on the whole know that it means you're looking for help with something, much like {Reward} and {Cap}{Quest}.
I would like to echo Adennak's advice to use symbols to link phrases and words - don't try to write sentances. Reading what some people shout in English is hard enough to understand, I can only assume it's harder still when it's translated.
Another common "error" is prefacing all your calls for assistance with {Help me out!} - this actually translates to mean something along the lines of "Save me from the monster that is chasing me!" So it's a little odd seeing people yell it when they're seemingly safe infront of the AH.
Of course, the Japanese players on the whole know that it means you're looking for help with something, much like {Reward} and {Cap}{Quest}.
I would like to echo Adennak's advice to use symbols to link phrases and words - don't try to write sentances. Reading what some people shout in English is hard enough to understand, I can only assume it's harder still when it's translated.
By the way, as long as people are talking about auto-translates you shouldn't use, the biggest three I can think of are as follows.
This is a nice post. I see people using the auto-translator a lot and translating total gibberish because they think that things that are auto-translated and then have the other half of the word in English (can't think of any examples, but something like {break}ing) are somehow going to make sense to people who speak Japanese.
Edit: Someone help! The pre tag is messing up my message.
What do I do?
Edited, Fri Mar 11 12:12:20 2005 by Tsukinomahou
NA Version JP Version JP Meaning in English
{Reward} {‚¢‚½‚í‚é} "sympathize"
{Help me out!} {•‚¯‚ÄII} "Save me!!"
{break} {‹x‚Ý} "break" (as in "taking a break," or "rest")
This is a nice post. I see people using the auto-translator a lot and translating total gibberish because they think that things that are auto-translated and then have the other half of the word in English (can't think of any examples, but something like {break}ing) are somehow going to make sense to people who speak Japanese.
Edit: Someone help! The pre tag is messing up my message.
What do I do?
Edited, Fri Mar 11 12:12:20 2005 by Tsukinomahou
As for 'tank', it's not in the auto-translate, so I've always used my own phrase:
{meat}{shield}
And yes, every JP I've come across and used that on understood, and many of them actually laughed. (Well, they w'd if that counts)
{meat}{shield}
And yes, every JP I've come across and used that on understood, and many of them actually laughed. (Well, they w'd if that counts)
Good topic, adennak. I'll share one my favorite illustrative examples before asking a side question...
I was in a mostly-J party (just myself and 1 other fellow who spoke English). The other fellow needed to go afk, but I guess he presumed that the J members wouldn't know what "afk" meant, so he typed in...
I'll be {Right} {Back}
Now, seeing as how both "Right" and "Back" come from the set of directional words, I figured that to a truly non-English-speaking person this looked just as informative as:
*'** ** {Left} {Front}
However, in subsequent discussion with the fellow I was completely unable to get this idea across to him.
It seems to me that probably most J players would know "afk", anyway, and in my experience this extends to at least "brb" and "ok".
So, to my questions 1) do other people find this to be true or am I risking misunderstandings and, 2) can we add to this list other common terms that pretty much any internet-savvy person in the world would know?
I was in a mostly-J party (just myself and 1 other fellow who spoke English). The other fellow needed to go afk, but I guess he presumed that the J members wouldn't know what "afk" meant, so he typed in...
I'll be {Right} {Back}
Now, seeing as how both "Right" and "Back" come from the set of directional words, I figured that to a truly non-English-speaking person this looked just as informative as:
*'** ** {Left} {Front}
However, in subsequent discussion with the fellow I was completely unable to get this idea across to him.
It seems to me that probably most J players would know "afk", anyway, and in my experience this extends to at least "brb" and "ok".
So, to my questions 1) do other people find this to be true or am I risking misunderstandings and, 2) can we add to this list other common terms that pretty much any internet-savvy person in the world would know?
I use things like "<Bard> <Away>" when I go afk in a JP or mixed party. They've always seems to understand what I mean.
If I have to leave the computer for any reason, I usually use something along the lines of:
{Please listen.} <me> {Samurai} {/away} 5:00 {I'm sorry.} OK?
Again, it's an instance where I think the <me> tag works nicely. Though I always put in my job. In most macros, I put my job when the party as to know who is doing what. I know it's harder for me to keep names straight in my head when they are not in my native language, so I assume that it's also harder for JPs to do so. Thus I don't need them stopping to think "Okay, was Esparta the SAM or the SMN. . . "
I also try to put a rough estimate of the time I will be gone. Though when in doubt, I say about 5 minutes. I know that digital clocks read out the same in Japan as they do in America, and people seem to get the idea. Usually, at least one person in the party will reply with {Understood.} and then tell the rest of the group what is going on, if they didn't get it.
{Please listen.} <me> {Samurai} {/away} 5:00 {I'm sorry.} OK?
Again, it's an instance where I think the <me> tag works nicely. Though I always put in my job. In most macros, I put my job when the party as to know who is doing what. I know it's harder for me to keep names straight in my head when they are not in my native language, so I assume that it's also harder for JPs to do so. Thus I don't need them stopping to think "Okay, was Esparta the SAM or the SMN. . . "
I also try to put a rough estimate of the time I will be gone. Though when in doubt, I say about 5 minutes. I know that digital clocks read out the same in Japan as they do in America, and people seem to get the idea. Usually, at least one person in the party will reply with {Understood.} and then tell the rest of the group what is going on, if they didn't get it.
There's a few things I'm not quite sure about in the translator.
{Pull back.}
I'm assuming this means something like retreat or move back. Or I might be wrong and everyone who uses this to try and say pull is right.
{Take care.}
I use this when I leave a party. {Good bye.} and {Take care.} I also use it when something pops and might aggro. So which is correct? Be careful or take care of yourselves?
{Pull back.}
I'm assuming this means something like retreat or move back. Or I might be wrong and everyone who uses this to try and say pull is right.
{Take care.}
I use this when I leave a party. {Good bye.} and {Take care.} I also use it when something pops and might aggro. So which is correct? Be careful or take care of yourselves?
JmacAttack wrote:
Also note that {Fishing} translates as "Pulling" to the JP, which explains being in a JP party, one might say {Thief}{Monster}{Fishing}{Please}
Therefore, my pulling macro is {Fishing} <t> {Full Attack!}. Lots of NAs ask "why fishing?" at first, but they get it when I tell them.
Therefore, my pulling macro is {Fishing} <t> {Full Attack!}. Lots of NAs ask "why fishing?" at first, but they get it when I tell them.
Sorry, I'm not picking on just you Jmac, I see it a lot on these boards. I don't see why it's so hard to remember that green starts the translated word or phrase, and red stops it. ^^;;;
Samus taught us that a girl doesn't need brains to be successful. Brains are giant, evil and vulnerable to missiles.
Oh, and another "Englishism" that I count on Japanese-speaking players understanding -- turning something into a question by adding the "?" character. This is not used in standard Japanese, but every J player seems to know it. So if I say:
{Disbanding Party.}?
or
{Ready!}?
It seems pretty much universally understood that I'm asking a question, even though the translated phrase is a statement.
Edited, Fri Mar 11 15:33:02 2005 by SirBowen
{Disbanding Party.}?
or
{Ready!}?
It seems pretty much universally understood that I'm asking a question, even though the translated phrase is a statement.
Edited, Fri Mar 11 15:33:02 2005 by SirBowen
{limit}{rest}1{quest}{save me!}{sympathize}
hehe ^^
great thread.
hehe ^^
great thread.
I am not absolutely sure where {Pull Back} and {Take Care} are in the translator. The best think to do, if you really want to know, is to go into the translator manually and see what category they are in.
This is a cool website if you can speak/read Japanese: http://www.hmx-12.net/~virgil7/netEchat/commu_ffxi_5.htm
<Take care.> looks like it falls under greetings/farewells. It translates to "ki o tsukete kudasai" which is basically, "please be careful." (Though Babelfish translates it to "please pay attention."
<Pull back.> is in the Tactics section. It translates to "Sukoshi sagatte" which Babelfish translates to "going down a little."
<Take care.> looks like it falls under greetings/farewells. It translates to "ki o tsukete kudasai" which is basically, "please be careful." (Though Babelfish translates it to "please pay attention."
<Pull back.> is in the Tactics section. It translates to "Sukoshi sagatte" which Babelfish translates to "going down a little."
Samus taught us that a girl doesn't need brains to be successful. Brains are giant, evil and vulnerable to missiles.
I have a question and it maybe just because I am a little green when it comes to using the Auto-Translator. I am on PC and when I ever need to use auto-trans I simply will type out a little of my word or phrase I want to spell and hit tab to finish off the word or phrase. Now, I've seen people use auto-trans on such words as Gluttony Sword, and other weapons and items. I can't seem to figure out how to auto-trans weapons, items and such. Am I doing something wrong?
-Ria
-Ria
The last category of Auto-Translator is (Items). If you pick that category, it forwards you to a list of items to choose from. Bear in mind that not all items appear in that list, and some people say they randomly have items they need to trasnlate appear and disappear from it. The common theory is that you can only auto-translate items that your character has "seen" in an inventory screen.
I've heard these, if there is a better way to express them (if you know Japanese), please correct me:
(All taken from http://www.nephilim-x.com/info/japanese.html)
I'm going to [Location] -> [basho] he ikimasu / [??] ?????
Let's go back to [Location] -> [basho] he modorimashou / [??] ???????
We should go to [Location] -> [Location] he modoru beki da / [??] ??????
Let's go -> ikimashou
Follow me please -> tsuitekite kudasai / ????????
Please go ahead -> sakini itte kudasai / ????????
Please wait a second -> Chotto matte kudasai / ??????????
Wait -> machimasu / ????
Ready -> junbi yoshi / ????
Taunt -> chouhatsu / ??
I'm sitting (to recover MP) -> suwarimasu / ????
Keep your TP, i'll heal you -> kaifuku suru kara, TP tamete oite ne / ??????TP???????
(All taken from http://www.nephilim-x.com/info/japanese.html)
I'm going to [Location] -> [basho] he ikimasu / [??] ?????
Let's go back to [Location] -> [basho] he modorimashou / [??] ???????
We should go to [Location] -> [Location] he modoru beki da / [??] ??????
Let's go -> ikimashou
Follow me please -> tsuitekite kudasai / ????????
Please go ahead -> sakini itte kudasai / ????????
Please wait a second -> Chotto matte kudasai / ??????????
Wait -> machimasu / ????
Ready -> junbi yoshi / ????
Taunt -> chouhatsu / ??
I'm sitting (to recover MP) -> suwarimasu / ????
Keep your TP, i'll heal you -> kaifuku suru kara, TP tamete oite ne / ??????TP???????
Scholar
41 posts
The most common use of the Auto-translator I've seen for "tank" by Japanese players is simply {Shield}. Also, yes, using {meat}{Shield} is generally understood, and usually will get you some w's in response.
adennak wrote:
The last category of Auto-Translator is (Items). If you pick that category, it forwards you to a list of items to choose from. Bear in mind that not all items appear in that list, and some people say they randomly have items they need to trasnlate appear and disappear from it. The common theory is that you can only auto-translate items that your character has "seen" in an inventory screen.
It's pretty neat because it saves you from having to look for your item line by line. The selector moves pretty fast if you just hold the button down.
[EDIT: Oh, and I also found out in that same thread that the list only holds the 200 or so most recently seen items, which is why things disappear consistently.]
Edited, Fri Mar 11 16:01:38 2005 by gangstakago
Samus taught us that a girl doesn't need brains to be successful. Brains are giant, evil and vulnerable to missiles.
I've found that not only can I not auto-translate items until I've 'seen' them in-game, but that I have to manually scroll through the items that I've seen in the auto-translate list.
For example, if I view the Enhancing Sword on the AH, it does not show up when I try to auto-translate it. However, if I bring up the text input bar, hit tab, scroll to items, and then page-down through all the items, I'm them able to auto-translate Enhancing Sword.
In summary:
1) 'See' the item
2) Scroll through all names in your [ITEMS] auto-translate list (holding page-down is the easiest way)
3) Begin typing the name and hit {Tab} to auto-translate
For example, if I view the Enhancing Sword on the AH, it does not show up when I try to auto-translate it. However, if I bring up the text input bar, hit tab, scroll to items, and then page-down through all the items, I'm them able to auto-translate Enhancing Sword.
In summary:
1) 'See' the item
2) Scroll through all names in your [ITEMS] auto-translate list (holding page-down is the easiest way)
3) Begin typing the name and hit {Tab} to auto-translate
Quote:
quickly scroll through your the list using the Up or Down arrow, then once you've gone through your list once
You are not required to scroll through the list. Simply viewing the item (Enhancing Sword on AH, for example) then tabbing to (Item) (escape out), then typing something like "enha[TAB]" will result in something that you're looking for.
Quote:
You are not required to scroll through the list. Simply viewing the item (Enhancing Sword on AH, for example) then tabbing to (Item) (escape out), then typing something like "enha[TAB]" will result in something that you're looking for.
Not in my experience, but I'll give it another go later.
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