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Q's Guide to Adds, Aggro, and ZoningFollow

#1 Feb 09 2005 at 5:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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The Fhqwghads (aka 'Q') Guide to Aggro/ Adds/ Getting The Hell Out Of Dodge

Summary

It's going to happen at some point in your online life. Your party is minding its own business, trying to earn some XP, or get a Rare/Ex item, or complete a mission, and some nosey and temperamental mob pops up and starts attacking. Or perhaps you've been pulling mobs all night, and suddenly you come face to face with some nasty mob that is chewing up your party like it's dinner. Ugh! Most parties loathe these situations, and rightly so. A party experience can go from pleasant chit-chat while accomplishing goals, to panic-stricken shouts and running amok while dozens of mobs aggro and add, decimating parties and alliances. This guide will hopefully shed some light on what can be done to cushion some of the blows, and make the best of a bad situation.

The guide will have several sections that deal with different spells and situations, and how they can contribute to getting out of the predicament. Please feel free to respond with any questions, suggestions, additions, or corrections, as I would like to keep this updated and useful.

Key Definitions

Some of you who are very new might not know the some of the terminology used here, so a brief description of the terms is listed here.

"Mob": Short for Mobile Object. Bascially it's the monsters you fight.

"Add": This refers to any mob that inadvertently joins the fight. Some mobs get very angry when they see their friends getting beat up, and join the fight. This is an "add"itional mob. Also known as a "link."

"Zone": The border of the current map, which leads to the next area. When you move from one map to the next, this is "zoning". You will see from time to time in a party someone state something along the lines of "zone!!!". This means disengage or unlock the enemy, and haul butt to the exit, because something is going horribly wrong.

"Pop": This describes a mob that has materialized nearby, which is either a potential or imminent threat.

Communication

One of the most overlooked topic as the party gets ready to fight is communicating who will be the primary add handler. Usually this job goes to the Red Mage, since they have a higher capacity for enfeebling, or a Bard since they have Lullaby. Make sure that everyone who has the ability to sleep a mob knows who the primary is, and establish who will back up (usually Bard or Black Mage). This will avoid unnecessary MP usage in a time that conservation is key, because more than likely you're going to have to fight 2 (or more) mobs with little rest between them.

The Infamous <bt> Macro

Using <bt> (battle target) in your macros is a great thing, because it always targets mobs that the party has engaged. The bad thing about it is it can and will target mobs that were meant to be slept. If you use <bt>, please be aware of this, and adjust accordingly by manually targeting the intended mob. If you're a mage, I highly recommend you manually organize your spells so that they're in an order that makes sense to you if you need to switch to manually targeting and firing off spells.

As jpreichel pointed out, the best solution is to have a macro that targets the battle target, and all other spells use the standard target macro <t>. This is what I use exclusively.

/target <bt>

Sleep spells

  • Sleep/ Sleep II
  • Sleepga / Sleepga II (BLM only)

  • These spells are invaluable. Depending on job level there may be one or more of these in your ******** The time varies between each spell as far as the duration of the mob being slept if completely unresisted, with Sleep being the lowest, and Sleepga II being the longest. If there is an add that a Black Mage needs to sleep, it's recommended that Elemental Seal be fired off first, to cut down on the chance of it being resisted, and to maximize duration. The situation will determine which spell to use. If there are no nearby mobs, using Sleepga II would be the best choice (although this is not a cheap spell). Next in line would be Sleep II if there are either mobs close, or Sleepga II is unavailable. After that, it would be Sleepga if no mobs around, and last up Sleep.

    There is a stacking order when it comes to sleep spells:

    Sleepga II > Sleep II > Sleepga > Sleep

    This means that sleep is the lowest spell, and each successive spell overwrites the previous. It would be interesting to get feedback on experiences people have had trying to stack these spells. I am unsure if throwing a Sleep II over a Sleep would wake the mob if Sleep II failed.

    If there was an add, and the slept mob is still sleeping after the primary is defeated, MAXIMIZE THE OPPORTUNITY. Do NOT immediately attack the slept mob. Anyone with Provoke should use it on the slept mob. This will NOT wake it, but it will take some of the hate away from the poor mage who had to sleep it. Mages should cast all the non-damaging enfeebles they can on the mob while it sleeps... these also will not wake the mob. Slow, paralyze, gravity, blind, etc. Black Mages can also Aspir mobs that have MP without waking it. After this, take as much time as you can to med up. This way when the mob wakes up or your party is ready, you'll be on more even ground.

    Lullaby

    Lullaby is one of the songs in a Bard's ******** and is great at sleeping mobs. This spell has a 2 second cast, a 24 second recast, and is a light elmental song. It has a 30 second duration (+2 sec for each +1 on instrument.)

    This sleep rarely gets a partial or full resist and can easily sleep undead and dark elementals, but not light element based monsters.

    Sleep spells overwrite this, this makes it extreamly useful for sleeping a monster until the blm or rdm is free to cast, or you can tie up your bard and let them continue to sleep it.

    (Thanks for the info, Jamini!)

    Assisting with mages casting Sleep

    In a link situation it is important that the RDM/BRD/BLM/WHM have the time they need to cast their Sleep spells. PLD should Provoke and engage the Pull and Flash the Link. Wait 10-15 seconds and hit Sentinel or Rampart. Often the 1st Sleep attempt is resisted so the Sentinel/Rampart gets the Link back on you and allows for an interruption free second attempt.

    (Any other tank jobs with additional techniques to get hate on them would be appreciated.)

    Thanks for this suggestion, kgav! Always good to have support in handling adds.

    Summoner to the rescue!

    If there's an add, a Summoner can sic it's avatar on it to keep it busy while the party deals with the 1st mob.

    Also, after level 39, Shiva gets Sleepga which can be utilized to sleep mobs if there are no mobs nearby that might be hit by the spell.

    Beastmaster as add control

    Along the same lines as Summoner, if you have a Beastmaster in your party, they can send their pet off to attack an add and keep it busy.

    When Sleep fails or is not available, and other tactics are exauhsted

    This is what to do in the event sleep fails or you don't have someone with the spell in your party. We'll go from best to worst.

    Kiting

    If you have a non-linking add (say a melee used an AoE weapon skill on accident, or a mage targeted wrong mob, etc) you can always "kite" the add around. The way you kite a mob is as follows:

    Provoke or use whatever means you have to get enough hate so the add focuses entirely on you, then it's time to start running around, forcing the mob to follow you. You'll want to put as much distance between yourself and the mob as possible by using the terrain to your advantage, like weaving in and out of trees, rocks, hills, etc. Enemies such as spell casters or ranged attackers will be easier to do this with since they often pause to shoot or cast a spell. Once your party is safely done fighting the current mob and rested enough, you can bring the enemy back to your party to finish off.

    Note that if your party members cast any huge spells as you were running away that would cause them to draw more hate, you may need to continually provoke to maintain hate while you're running around.

    Make sure you let the party know what you're doing so they aren't confused.

    Thanks for this suggestion, jerji!

    Escape (Dungeons only)

    If you have a Black Mage in your party and things go horribly wrong, you can always Escape. If the Black Mage has too much hate, Manafont and then cast Escape. Spells can't be interrupted during Manafont, so this guarantees that the retreat will be successful, as long as the Black Mage doesn't die while it's being cast. Now is the time to do that Divine Seal + Curaga, and voke, flash, or whatever else you can to keep the mobs from bashing the Black Mage. This is the best option, because any aggressive mobs won't be trained to the zone.

    Black Mages, your responsibility is communicating that you are casting Escape. Don't leave people behind because they were unaware that everyone was hitching a ride out. Get close to the melee, then fire it off, and spam the log with "Casting Escape! Gather!" or something to that effect.

    At level 58 a rdm/blm will have escape and be able to cast it faster, can take more hits, and generally has less aggro built up than a blm. Chainspell can also be used to make this a virtually instant party saver.

    Teleport

    If you have a White Mage in your party, and you either have no Black Mage, or are in an outside area, have the White Mage teleport everyone to a nearby crag. Sure, it may take a while to get back to camp, but in later levels the amount of XP you lose makes up for it.

    At level 72 a rdm/whm can use chainspell and cast one of the first 3 teleports.

    Call for Help

    As a last resort, you can call for help. Hopefully there are some people nearby who can assist you in killing the add. If you are going to have to zone an aggressive mob, it's probably a good idea to call for help on it anyway so anyone near the zone can try to take it out. Which brings us to the next section...

    Zoning

    I would highly recommend that your party just die if eveything above fails or is unavailable in the event that you're fighting aggressive mobs. There's nothing worse or more selfish than wiping out other parties because of what happened to a single party. Don't be "one of those" parties. If you absolutely feel you have to zone aggressive mobs, at least be courteous and shout which zone your headed to, so others won't suffer because of your decision. If you are going to zone an aggressive mob, or one that will link to other mobs that parties are xp'ing off of, call for Help. At least then they have the option of getting a group of people together to snuff out the mob. Now, on to some of the available options while you make a beeline for the zone.

    Gravity

    Red Mage can throw a Gravity on at least one of the mobs that have added, or the single mob if the party is headed towards disaster on a particularly vicious mob and the only choices are zone or wipe. This spell will give the party some breathing room if it sticks, because the mob will crawl along as the party hightails it out of there.

    Stun

    An overlooked spell in situations like this. The cast on this spell is instant, so if one party member is getting beat up, there should be enough time if you're mid-flight to target the mob, stop, and stun it. This will halt the mob in its tracks for at least a second, and hopefully draw hate away from the player, or give them a little bit of room on the way to the zone.

    Bind

    If sleep has failed, there's always Bind. Bind is notoriously useless most of the time, but if all else fails, try to stick bind as you're zoning. Even a second's worth of a bound mob can be the difference between everyone getting out safely, or one or more members biting the dust.

    Provoke

    While zoning, if a member of a party is dying from the mob bashing him/her up, target the mob and use Provoke on it if you have it. This hopefully will draw hate off the player so they can safely zone.

    Cure

    Last, but not least, if a melee is in danger of dying, and you're close to the zone and ahead of everyone else, target him/her, stop, and throw the strongest cure possible on the dying player. This will draw hate off him or at least give them a better chance of making it to the zone.


    In conclusion

    Hopefully this guide helps people get out of bad situations, and demonstrated a few tips and tricks that you may not have known were available. Personally it's very satisfying to successfully use the tools at my disposal when a sticky situation comes up and it saves the party from disaster. Again, feel free to respond with missing or inaccurate information, and I will update as needed.

    (First update.)
    Edited, Wed Feb 9 20:58:53 2005 by Fhqwghads
    (Second update.)
    Edited, Wed Feb 9 21:08:40 2005 by Fhqwghads
    (Third update.)

    Edited, Sat Mar 5 12:45:42 2005 by Fhqwghads
    #2 Feb 09 2005 at 8:02 PM Rating: Good
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    if u have a SMN in the PT, it might be possible for the SMN to put the avatar on the add and have some degree of add add controll for a while. after 39, Shiva also got Sleepga to use, but i'm not too sure how strong that one is thou ^^;
    #3 Feb 09 2005 at 8:11 PM Rating: Decent
    One thing it'd be nice I think if you edited in is actual definitions of the terms you used. When I first started this game I had no clue what zoning meant or what specific macro commands did. So if a new player happens to read this for advice when in those situations it might help if you describe what they are and what they do for you in the long run. Like give an example of how to setup the <bt> macro with the sleep spell and such. Just a thought maybe :)
    #4 Feb 09 2005 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
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    995 posts
    If you're lucky enough to have a BST in your party you can also have them send their pet to attack the link and keep it busy for a while (BST pets will generally last longer than a SMN's avatar would), or have them attempt to charm the link/aggro and use their Familiar 2hr ability if they land the charm to stop it uncharming again.
    #5 Feb 09 2005 at 8:28 PM Rating: Good
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    403 posts
    A couple suggestions:

    A great alternative to Escape for a party with no BLM or if you're not fighting in a dungeon is the Teleport spells.

    Have one macro specifically for targeting what's being pulled:
    /target <bt>
    Then, you can just have <t> in all of your other macros and you never have to worry about hitting the wrong thing. Plus, if the need should arrise, you can easily switch targets and use your macros to deal with adds.
    #6 Feb 09 2005 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent
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    2,817 posts
    Excellent suggestions, everyone. I will add those in. Thanks!
    #7 Feb 09 2005 at 8:55 PM Rating: Decent
    20 posts
    At level 58 a rdm/blm will have escape and be able to cast it faster, can take more hits, and generally has less aggro built up than a blm. Chainspell can also be used to make this a virtually instant party saver.

    At level 72 a rdm/whm can use chainspell and cast one of the first 3 teleports.

    I haven't played brd either, but from my understanding, the lullabies are light elemental. Mobs that have a resistance to darkness elemental are difficult to sleep (darkness elemental), and lullaby has a higher chance of working.
    #8 Feb 11 2005 at 4:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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    1,392 posts
    Pretty nice guide. I use the /ta <bt> macro with the rest of my spells using <t>, as well, and I'd like to say that it works wonderfully. This eliminates a lot of confusion.

    I wonder why your post was rated down? Ah, who cares?! Rate up!
    #9 Feb 11 2005 at 7:39 AM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    "Add": This refers to any mob that inadvertently joins the fight. Some mobs get very angry when they see their friends getting beat up, and join the fight. This is an "add"itional mob.

    also know as "link"

    Quote:
    "Zone": The border of the current map, which leads to the next area. When you move from one map to the next, this is "zoning". You will see from time to time in a party someone state something along the lines of "zone!!!". This means disengage from the enemy, and haul butt to the exit, because something is going horribly wrong.


    You don't need to disengage (waste of time) just unlock from the mob (on pc numeric pad *) and you can run away.



    Edited, Fri Feb 11 07:50:44 2005 by TheSnake
    #10 Feb 11 2005 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
    Fhqwghads the Tulip wrote:

    Some people say that sleep stacks, but personally I don't think this is true. I've done a number of BCNM fights where a mob was successfully slept, then as per recommendation I slap on another Sleep to stack it, which apparently failed because the mob woke up. For this reason, I would refrain from trying to stack sleep spells. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. (Feel free to submit your thoughts on this.)


    Sleep II/Sleepga II overwrite Sleep/Sleepga.
    #11 Feb 11 2005 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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    732 posts
    It's funny how people never listen though.

    Even if the people don't bring Silent Oil or Prism Powder, they certainly do not wait around for the mages to cast sneak/invis...

    Last night, going to camp in Garlaige.

    Please wait, beetles agro, let me sneak and invis you.
    *player X does not listen*
    STOP NOW, YOURE GONNA GET AGRO
    *player X gets agro, and a huge train and dies*

    C'mon, if you can't even stop for sneak or invis when a mage is offering it, then well, there is no saving you.

    You know, this stuff should go without saying, or come intuitively, but its amazing how few people, even at level 50+ know anything in your post at all.

    Well done, and rate ups.
    #12 Feb 11 2005 at 11:51 AM Rating: Decent
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    You might want to add more emphasis to the "Call for Help" feature.

    How many times have we all heard about areas like GC or CN getting shut down due to a huge train. If the origional party called for help, the first link could have been handled thus negating the need to run through the whole zone.

    There is a flip-side to this though. If you are around a party that has called for help.... HELP THEM! By getting rid of whatever problem mob there is, you are lessening the chance of a random aggro/link for you, thus increasing your possible exp/hr.



    Edited, Fri Feb 11 11:51:31 2005 by PsiChi
    #13 Feb 11 2005 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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    I need more info on links. If a puller brings back a non-aggroing link, which should I zone? This is supposing that I am a DD, the pt refuses to zone, and the puller refuses to zone. Which of the two mobs do I provoke and zone so that it doesn't come back to attack the party?
    #14 Feb 11 2005 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
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    Good thread - I hope it gets people thinking about how to handle the unexpected in a PT situation.

    We had adds twice in my last PT (I was tanking), and both times everyone panicked. Each time, I died. A sleep spell, or some other coordinated response, would probably have saved my ***.

    #15 Mar 04 2005 at 7:50 PM Rating: Decent
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    Figured I'd bump this back up for those who never saw it, and also because I was reminded of how important some of these entries are to successfully handling adds as we had a few last night in an xp party. ^^
    #16 Mar 04 2005 at 8:12 PM Rating: Decent
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    1,478 posts
    As a PLD this is my strategy for handling Links:

    In a link situation it is important that the RDM/BRD/BLM/WHM have the time they need to cast Sleep/Sleep II/Sleepga. PLD should Provoke and engage the Pull and Flash the Link. Wait 10-15 seconds and hit Sentinel or Rampart. Often the 1st Sleep attempt is resisted so the Sentinel/Rampart gets the Link back on you and allows for a interruption free second attempt.



    Once it has been slept I feel that it is best to have the RDM(if there is one) baby sit the Link. I don't mind if the Refresh cycle slips as long as the Link is kept slept while we take care of the pull.
    #17 Mar 04 2005 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
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    I'll chip in the information on lullabye.

    2 second cast. 24 second recast, light elmental. 30 second duration (+2 sec for each +1 on instument)

    This sleep rarely gets a partial or full resist and can easily sleep undead and dark elementals, but not light element monsters.

    Sleep spells overwrite this, this makes it extreamly useful for sleeping a monster untill the blm or rdm is free to cast. ^^, or you can tie up your bard and let them keep it sleeping.
    #18 Mar 04 2005 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
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    props and rate up for an informative thread which I haven't seen covered before. I wish more of the threads here were along these lines...
    #19 Mar 04 2005 at 9:13 PM Rating: Good
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    There's one more option that you didn't mention and that's Kiting.

    There are a lot of times that a melee, ideally one with high evasion, some sort of movement bonus and also Provoke, can take hate from a mob, run away for a while and then come back. An ideal job for this would be THF/WAR but anyone with Provoke can do it.

    Basically, you tell your party that you're going to take hate and run away then you just start to use obstacles to put the mob farther behind you. Enemies such as spell casters or ranged attackers will be easier to do this with since they often pause to shoot or cast a spell. Once your party is safely done fighting the current mob and rested enough, you can bring the enemy back to your party to finish off.

    Note that if your party members cast any huge spells as you were running away that would cause them to draw more hate, you may need to continually provoke to maintain hate while you're running around.

    Anyway, just thought I'd add that one because I've successfully pulled several times when other options were not available or practical.
    #20 Mar 04 2005 at 9:21 PM Rating: Decent
    Fhqwghads the Tulip wrote:
    Figured I'd bump this back up for those who never saw it, and also because I haven't been rated up much lately.
    Ftfy.
    #21 Mar 04 2005 at 9:53 PM Rating: Decent
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    I have no way of proving this, however, it seems that the more you sleep a mob (is this true with other enfeebles?) the more it resists. I've seen BRDs cast Lullaby on a mob, it wake up, he cast Lullaby again, it wake up a little sooner, and he cast it again and it resisted twice in a row. Thankfully, by this time, the first was dead and we had enough vokers to get it off him after all of those Lullabies....

    They probably did that to lessen the "cheapness" of Sleep/Lullaby....

    --Xylia
    #22 Mar 04 2005 at 10:03 PM Rating: Decent
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    In response to Kiting, yeah that's a great idea, but only if you are fighting non-linking monsters (obviously, but we should specify so some n00b doesn't try to kite bats, or crawlers or something stupid like that). Also, while Kiting, its good to watch aggro. Oftentimes, if you are trying to level, the the area you are fighting in, is usually full of aggro mobs and the only safe areas are near your camp, which doesn't exactly give you the largest kiting range. But still an idea to those who can pull it off. There is something ELSE, though, I as a WHM will take advantage of:

    Zoning resets hate, right?

    If crap hits the fan and you are fighting near a zone line (Garlaige, Kazham, etc), and your party is almost dead and you are out of MP and you are a white mage, and if you have a fast computer+fast connection, try this.

    Throw Benediction, zone, come back. I've done this a couple times and it works wonders. Benediction will give everyone enough HP to survive long enough for you to zone and come back, and what is more, is that when you zoned, you completely reset your hate to Zero. The same could be said for BLMs who decide to Manafont + Ancient Magic, zone, and then dump another Ancient magic on it.

    --Xylia
    #23 Mar 05 2005 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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    Thanks for the other suggestions guys. The guide has been updated to reflect them.
    #24 Mar 05 2005 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
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    1,368 posts
    You should credit people in the OP for using their ideas.

    I would edit your "communication" paragraph to include a very strong phrase like "the best PTs will always have an Escape and Evasion plan if things go bad." You include that meaning in the first paragraph, but the urgent tone isn't there.

    When it comes time to run away several issues come up:

  • Where is the PT running to? Will you split up or stay in a group?

  • Who decuideds when it is time to run? I always elect the PT leader. When the leader calls for "Plan B" do not hesitate, do not delay, do not question- simply immediately begin following through on the plan.

  • Also,

  • The BST section doesn't have info on releasing current pet/charming the link yet.

  • You also do not discuss having a back-up tanker as a designated driver, I mean link zoner (the entire thread assumes you will either all stay and fight, or all run). You can even do other freaky things that don't involve zoning to ahve one person get, then exhaust agro (deodorize + gravity or flee and run a large circle, for instance). Also- having one person, and one only, agro and zone a monster and then casting sneak/invis before it returns can be a great tactic (it's done all the time in Yhoator, for instance)

  • I would also put more emphasis on calling for help- and this includes talking to nearby PTs and asking ahead of time if they will help you and agreeing to help them.

  • I would include more dicussion of two hour abilites. In desperate situations like a bad link many PT members do not use them properly. Classics like Perfect Dodge or Invincible tanking the link work wonders. Most hairy situations I've seen could have been solved with proper, somwhat co-ordinated two-hours, and yet in every party wipe I've been priveleged to participate in no more than 50% of the players used their two-hours.

  • There is always the less than ideal tactic of having a designated human shield. Simply ahving one person agro anything nasty and then hold it off long enough for everyone else to leave. PS- if you do this, rotating the ugly duty after each occurance is the best way to go ^^.

  • Edited, Sat Mar 5 13:11:18 2005 by Kiyokatsu
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