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"JP ONLY" explained by a japanese friend^^Follow

#1 Jan 28 2005 at 6:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have seen a few threads on "JP ONLY", some people seem not to understand what is meant by it. I have a JP LS member and this is what she wrote... I hope it helps, i learned alot from them and i hope you do too.

Quote:
I noticed offense is always took when an American player is presented with "JP ONLY" comment. I want to introduce LS into how Japanese players play. It is not to say LS members must follow this way, but just to shed light.

JP pt do not function like NA pt. Example being staying together until the end. Japanese PT will start together in Jeuno, and end together in Jeuno. When 1 member leave, it is the end of the party. Yesterday, my Japanese party had a SMN leave after 15 minute of partying, to be replaced with a RDM. They were suprised at the replacement and commented "Looked like NA PT, replacing members". Maybe it may not make sense to NA player who think it is practical to keep replacing member until no more can be found, but it is a question of respect. To replace a hardworking member is consider disrespectful.

Many JP can understand English; it has become a large part of Japan's industry. Modern hip hop in Japan has a lot of slang English, and even most younger generation can use slang English (like "hey guyz" or "friendz"). But many are unsure of English skills and do not wish to look like a fool. They are from a country where much shame come if you are speaking wrong English and do not know. They do not wish to speak English because they do not want to be laugh at.

JP Only means Japanese language only, but there is a reason why they like Japan player for a reason not racist at all. Time zone. They like to start together, end together. They do not want to PT and have a member leave because it is that person's sleep time. In higher level, if a person is replace with a new member, new member may have hard time getting to party by himself. Such as secret room in Crawler Nest, where sneak is used.

Basically, they prefer JP way of doing things as a team. They do not wish to replace members who put hard work, and they do not want member that stay for only 30 minutes. Yesterday, when I end after 3 hour of party the entire members return to Jeuno with me instead of invite another.

If you see <English> <Party> <Too weak> or <Death> please remember, Japan have adolescent just like America. Immature player on Japan should not affect or cause bitter feelings.

I hope Member can understand, my message and my English.

If questions exist I can help ^^*


Quote:
If you had seem the movie "The Last Samurai", you will be familiar with silent suffering. Suffering in silence is Japan's top honor.

Unfortunately, I have notice NA player do not suffer in silence.

After a year of living in Hawaii, I learned it is common to voice your opinions. We are encouraged to speak up help is needed, or if something is wrong.

Not so in Japan.

Example:

-Many times highschool girls and young women can be harassed on a crowded subway train by men. They, as women and because of honor, cannot yell or call for help. They suffer silently. In fact, there is not a Japanese word for "sexual harassment" but they use a borrow form from English "sekuhara".

Many time, if Na have complain they shout it, starting many fight in zones. I encourage to not complain with /shout. Prevent /shout as a conversation tool^^*

Also, there are some flaw in translator:

Reward - ‚¢‚½‚í‚é - Do not confuse this as "gift". It is a BST command, and in Japanese it means "to pity". It is not an object, but an action. 500gil <Reward> is, to pity them and give 500gil.

Help me out! - •‚¯‚āII- Does not mean to lend a hand, but to save his life. This was to be used in a situation of fighting a monster.

Hello! - ‚±‚ñ‚É‚¿‚́B- In English "hello" is used at all times, but in Japanese konnnichiha is used only at afternoon. When you see Japanese player "Nice to meet you." is all that is needed.

Some more exist but they do not come to mind.


Quote:
I have noticed something else recently. But this is only general view.. Remember there are many immature Japanese players too,

Many times people say "I think these JP are laughing at my equipment because they have my name and 'w' in the same sentence."

JP will not laugh at your gear... JP do not even check your equipment ^^; None of my JP friend have ever tell me "you do not have leaping boots, or Valkurm NM hairpin, you are bad player!!". But I notice many times people yell at others for not having 2 Sniper Rings or many other things too expensive.

I have given up on this game before because I know I can never make enough money and still be having fun without cheating...

Please do not look bad upon other players if they do not have expensive equipment... If you can do your best in party and have good equipment, it will be better than any equipment you can have!

JP do not want to list their stat on search comment, and they never put what equipment they have because these thing (though very important) should not be base for invitation. I know it is very hard... Many job at your same level, and you have to beat competition. But, armor is not what this game is!

This is proof, even if JP have "the best equipment", they do not think of you as bad if you do not have it too. Do not be so shame!


#2 Jan 28 2005 at 6:28 PM Rating: Decent
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210 posts
Quite enlightning... the portion about the word Reward in auto-translater makes me think of all the people shouting for {cap} {quest} literally means "Hat quest".

Very good post, rate up. ^^

EDIT: Hmmm... rated down for this. {That's interesting}

Edited, Mon Feb 14 20:51:36 2005 by Rudre
#3 Jan 28 2005 at 6:30 PM Rating: Default
Yup, take it from someone who actually does have Winged boots, Emp Pin, Bring +1 and an Atral Ring... That stuff is a luxury that I worked long and hard for.. But I'd take a skilled player any day over some clueless jackass who happens to have the "elite gear".

Take it from someone who has it, elite gear is a luxury, not a necessity.
#4 Jan 28 2005 at 6:31 PM Rating: Default
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1,215 posts
good info, especially the auto-translate words.. that might not mean what we think they mean going from NA >> JP translation.

any more auto-translate "corrections"?
#5 Jan 28 2005 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent
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1,411 posts
I never thought much about why they would have "JP only" I just figured it's easier to communicate, not that they think NAs suck. Makes sense to me now when I'd be with JP players and someone would leave and they'd ask "Party disband?" and of course, no, we continue with a replacement. I am sure some JP players probably enjoy continuing with a replacement, probably the ones that play DDs and wait a while for invites, of coruse those are the ones that are willign to play with NA. I think I'll stop using "Help me out" for various things, I always thought it meant something like "save my life!"
#6 Jan 28 2005 at 6:45 PM Rating: Default
This is a very important topic, I think it should be stickied
#7 Jan 28 2005 at 6:45 PM Rating: Default
I heard somewhere, and even saw, english players putting up

<English> <Party> <Too Weak.> <No Thanks.>

just to avoid parties.
#8 Jan 28 2005 at 6:46 PM Rating: Default
I heard somewhere, and even saw, english players putting up

<English> <Party> <Too Weak.> <No Thanks.>

just to avoid parties.
#9 Jan 28 2005 at 6:46 PM Rating: Decent
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970 posts
That's interesting that the Japanese do not look to replace members as a measure of respect. I do not berate that in any means, but to further the bridge of understanding (in case your Japanese friend is not aware of it), you may want to note that in some NA parties, continuing to replace members in a functional party is also a sign of respect.

Respect in that you realize that people have made commitment in putting forth their time to be in a party with you. It does sound somewhat arrogant, but as a party leader, I try to keep in mind that individuals may have limited play time, thus want to make the most out of the time to form a party. How discourteous is that to them, when we spend nearly an hour forming a party, only to gain experience points for an hour and a half or two? How disrespectful is it to the melee jobs, who wait for hours, days and even weeks in extreme cases?

Both are valid ways of looking at it, however. From what you say, the majority of the Japanese look at the party as a "Family" of sorts. Almost like replacing one member is as awkward as replacing a member of a business department, or what have you. The NA look at it in many cases as a means to achieve an end -- if a "Family" is wanted, they would go the other end of the spectrum to a static party.

I'm not sure of the fineries of the Japanese group of players (i.e. how many of them play on top of work, school, family, etc.) but I have a feeling that *might* be slightly higher in the U.S., which combined with the differing cultures, leads to these opposite mentalities.
#10 Jan 28 2005 at 6:48 PM Rating: Default
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193 posts
Everyone making racist statements against Japanese players in this game need to see this.

/rate up!
#11 Jan 28 2005 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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5,339 posts
Quote:
JP pt do not function like NA pt. Example being staying together until the end. Japanese PT will start together in Jeuno, and end together in Jeuno. When 1 member leave, it is the end of the party.

But I've been in JP parties that have fielded mid-party replacements for people. I've even been asked while in a battle area to find a EN replacement for a JP who is leaving if they can't find any suitable JP replacements.
Quote:
Time zone. They like to start together, end together. They do not want to PT and have a member leave because it is that person's sleep time.

But I've been in JP parties at 11am EST (~1am JST) and after 20 minutes.. (I'm sleepy) and they want to leave. I was just in one like this the other day, and these are L70's people. We barely got from Jeuno past the moon gate and after a handful of fights 2 JP's wanted to go to bed, much to the dismay of me and the other JP's. They even got into an argument over it.

I think your japanese friend is giving a perfect scenario, which is what we ALL want but we know we can't have. And as innocent as "JP ONLY" may sound to them, they should know full well after a year of having NA's and now EU's in game that JP ONLY offends many non-japanese. It definately offends me.
#12 Jan 28 2005 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
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218 posts
umm.. sugar coat it all you want.. it is still an elitist attitude. . mirroring their own RL culture.

My fave JP story recently.. just did ZM6.. really late at night..and i was the only NA member out of 8 people. Since there were only 8 of us.. a few would have to go through the BCNM twice. Before being allowed in, was told that I would prolly die.. but oh well.

Well. . I was in the first group to go.. and it was a very close match, but. we won.. and I played a huge part in our victory if I do say so myself.

I have lived in Japan for two years, and can speak some decent japanese... During this fight..most of my comments were ignored.. whether it be in English or in Japanese... Really wasnt that big of a deal to me.. but oh well..

After we won.. in perfect japanese, I said.. Goodjob everyone! ... one guy reponds with the auto translater.. "I do not speak english" "I do not speak Japanese" " I do not understand" followed by smiles and snickers from other japanese players. Keep in mind.. that the entire fight.. not one person used the autotranslate function, nor acknowledge any auto translate/japanese chat that I did. These comments that came up..really pissed me off.. b/c at least I was TRYING to communicate.


Anyway, back to the story.. second group goes in.. gets OWNED. hehe..

I am a firm believer in Kharma in this game.. and the kharma gods dealt these guys a blow on the second pt .. thats for sure.

So.. i warped back to jeuno, giggling all the way.


As far as the no responses to NA requests, and the JP party only messages.. simply .. it is elitism.. and to those people who play like that.. let em stay in their microcosm..

I love playing in mixed pts.. practicing my japanese, and making the world a smaller place.. it isnt the NA players that lose out when JP players wont play in mixed pts.. it is the sad sad JP player who is losing out on an experience to make the game a global experience.
which is one of the great aspects of vana diel
#13 Jan 28 2005 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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11,630 posts
I think the part about listing equipment in comment was the most interesting part. I've personally seen that japanese don't (in auto-translate), and been thinking of following their example. It's just that I have nothing else to fill it with. After all, I'm looking for both J and E parties, so I need auto-translator words for my comment. Equipment just happens to be something easy to fill it out with.

Although it felt nice the other day when I did "{ Impossible to gauge } { mithra } thighs" as comment when I was running around in subligar as bard.
#14 Jan 28 2005 at 7:22 PM Rating: Decent
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498 posts
Nice post, kinda clears up some things. But as long as the JP topic is open i wanted to ask a question:

Does anybody else get annoyed when you send a polite tell to a JP player inviting them to a pt and they don't respond?

It's not like im begging for help, just offering pt slot and they don't even have enough decency to reply with even an [No Thanks]. I take it personally that they sit on a "high pedestal" and think I am not good enough for even a reply. I am likely way off base, and i realize that. lol. But i rarely have a NA person ignore me in the same instance.
#15 Jan 28 2005 at 7:41 PM Rating: Decent
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396 posts
I think all the information presented is very interesting, but I have to say that there are still things I don't understand. I've been in mixed JP/EN parties and they rarely use the auto translator. Why is this? Also I understand that JP might be shy about using English if they only know a little, but it's sort of deceitful. On several occassions when there was only one JP in my party, they'll say from the start "I don't speak any English" so we bend over backwards trying to relay messages to them in auto translator. At the end of the party, they'll then say in English: "Thanks for the party! I have to go now!" I don't know if they just know this one phrase or if they can actually speak English.
I'm not sure about the whole "JP Only" but I do know that on several occasions, my party leader as attempted to invite a "JP Only" player who had their flag up, and got no response. When we got another Japanese player in the party, we asked her to invite the player who didn't respond to us and what do you know? He's in. It seems kind of like they don't want an NA party, but are more inclined to do it if there's another JP player.
I don't want to sound like I don't like JP, because that's not the case at all. One of the nice things about JP parties I've noticed is that they're a lot quieter than NA parties. We just pull and fight, pull and fight. I just wish they were more open to communicating with us.
#16 Jan 28 2005 at 7:53 PM Rating: Decent
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3,640 posts
hehe, i'd like to see your friend explain

"jp only, {english} = {too weak}"

Quote:
JP will not laugh at your gear... JP do not even check your equipment ^^;


not true, i have been checked many times by jp, you have to remember that you cannot lump everyone into one category because of their nationality.

every country has their psychos, murderers, crazies, and a-holes

this post isn't really accurrate when you talk about the jp population, more like accurrate if you are referring to your jp friend only.

jp are neither more polite nor more rude than any other nationality, as i have had about the same amount of JP's and NA's act very rudely towards me.

I have been told "F%ck you" by both jp and na players as well lol

Edited, Fri Jan 28 20:05:49 2005 by melbolt
#17 Jan 28 2005 at 7:58 PM Rating: Default
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826 posts
Edited because someone keeps rating me down and it's starting to hurt.

This was very enlightening. I only hope that some time in the future people will stop calling the JPs elitists and stop whining because they wouldn't join the party. I'll definitely keep this in mind.

I only wish I could rate up higher. ^^

Edited, Wed Feb 2 14:16:36 2005 by JmacAttack
#18 Jan 28 2005 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
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3,640 posts
Quote:
This is very enlightening. I had no idea that the idea of replacing members was disrespectful. I can see the idea behind it, but I never thought of it that way. Maybe I should mention this when theres a JP in my party next time. If anyone on my LS brings up the JP only argument again, I'll tell them this.

I only wish I could rate up higher. ^^


while that may be true in his circle of jp friends, i must remind you that their is no japanese national code that says replacement is rude in ffxi.

sorry, can't lump people by culture or nationality.
#19 Jan 28 2005 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
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1,033 posts
Not quite completely true. One thing is for sure, some JP players like to speak like they represent everyone else, just like some NA players do.

I've seen and know this player's search comment, where it's all japanese. Except on the last line it saids "I speek sum Engrish too!" Guess what? Turns out his english is probably better than mine.

I've also seen JP in what most people thinks "JP inappropiate" gear. I've seen JP with broken subs. Of course, it's a very, very small percentage compared to non-JP players. I've seen all shades and colors of Japanese players. Just like NA, and I think people's reputative should be on individual basis.

Don't give me a stereotypical answer.
#20 Jan 28 2005 at 8:23 PM Rating: Decent
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2,817 posts
Some informative stuff in there. I always just figured, and am probably right in I'd say a lot of cases, that "JP ONLY" is because they want to be social. Hard to be social via the auto-translate. ><

Personally, this is why I switched my JE to E months ago. Partying with JP players gets boring after a few hours, just because I can't take part in any of the conversations. It's like being isolated even though you're surrounded by other players.

Those people who posted stating they had outright bad experiences with JP parties, as the OP quoted, they have children playing the game too and, JP or not, kids can be pretty stupid and thoughtless (as can adults). I'd wager you were partied with a bunch of children.

As for listing equipment, I'm sorry but I really have no choice *but* to list my equipment if I want to get chosen over someone else. All things being equal (level, rank, race), what other information can one gleen from a search if there's none provided? Flip a coin?

I wish that more NA parties had the mentality of sticking together through an xp session (or quests, missions, etc). Unfourtunately, NA has a different perspective on life, and real world issues often unexpectedly appear that force many players to part company. Work, kids, school, etc. This is why there's such a large number of revolving door parties. It appears JP have more dedication when it comes to playing. They probably make sure that their schedule is clear for at least three hours so they can fully commit to a party, whereas NA will take half an hour here, or an hour there, to squeeze out xp when they can. Perhaps a combination of replacement and dedication would be the best of both worlds.
#21 Jan 28 2005 at 8:32 PM Rating: Default
JP pts are better than 95% of NA pts... if you dissagree with this, either you party with a good NA static, or you have had somehow extreme luck. JP parties stay together a long time, one for all, all for one attitude. NA players don't give a **** about other players, they don't have great gear, and they don't even play they're job great or sometimes even like its susposed to be played.

i'd put JP ONLY in my search comment past 9pm est, if i could speak japanese


note: this was a generalization >_>

Edited, Fri Jan 28 20:35:12 2005 by Drevv
#22 Jan 28 2005 at 8:38 PM Rating: Good
36 posts
Quote:
hehe, i'd like to see your friend explain

"jp only, {english} = {too weak}"

JP wrote:
If you see <English> <Party> <Too weak> or <Death> please remember, Japan have adolescent just like America. Immature player on Japan should not affect or cause bitter feelings.





Quote:
sorry, can't lump people by culture or nationality.

JP wrote:
But this is only general view.. Remember there are many immature Japanese players too





Quote:
Don't give me a stereotypical answer.

Read it again. Try to understand the main point. The culture is different and there are value differences. Does this mean all follow them? no. Its like here in the states, you would believe that good christian values is the norm. is everyone a christain? no. Its about the differences and hoping you would understand. Plus some nice in-game info.

I was quite impressed with the post, rate up for you Rhodes.


Edited, Fri Jan 28 20:43:02 2005 by SummonerX
#23 Jan 28 2005 at 9:16 PM Rating: Decent
i live on a night schedule, i live in america and pretty much dont see the sun till i go to sleep, so all i get to do i party with jps, and u know what? im sick of being spit on <literaly> by them, i know its a generalization and i enjoy partying with them, but the majority of them think they are better player then us, even when i school them in ballista during a dual,my personal favorite rejection was "{i dont speak any english}sorry" but that aside yesterday a was staring at a japanese DRKs relic armor and when he saw me following him he asked {photo}? and when i said yes he posed and stood still so i could get a good shot so while some of them are nice guys and i respect them the rest think its theyre game and we are intruding.
#24 Jan 28 2005 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
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1,029 posts
Quote:
JP do not want to list their stat on search comment, and they never put what equipment they have because these thing


Not true. I saw many japaneese search comments with quite detailed gear description or stat description.

Edited, Fri Jan 28 21:47:23 2005 by skeevy
#25 Jan 28 2005 at 9:33 PM Rating: Good
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152 posts
Quote:
Its like here in the states, you would believe that good christian values is the norm. is everyone a christain?


-_- Who would believe that good Christian values is the norm here in the US??

don't get me started on religion...
#26 Jan 28 2005 at 9:45 PM Rating: Decent
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1,548 posts
That's a very nice message and I appreciate that someone went to the trouble to explain this in-depth. However, "JP only" is (to many) on par with using the word "***" to refer to a Japanese-speaking player. There may be no malicious intent behind the words, but the way it is said is considered offensive. I am courteous to the JPs on my server, and refer to them as "JPs" (meaning Japanese Players), "JPN" (meaning Japanese), or use the autotranslator to say "Name = {Japanese} {member}" to my party.

Simply writing a search comment in Japanese and displaying the "J" for language preference by their name is often enough to discourage NA players from sending /tells anyway. If a JP were to receive a message from a NA player, using the autotranslator to say, "{I'm sorry}, {I don't speak any English}," or even "{Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass}" is much more agreeable than {English} = X.
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