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Tips on Experience ChainFollow

#1 Oct 17 2004 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
In order to create an effective Experience Chain (5+), there are certain things to keep in mind. I will be making references to NA and JP parties, but I'm not saying which one is better. I've been in equally good parties in both, but the play style of each is generally very different.

Puller(s)
Having a good puller is very important. And having multiple pullers help dramatically.

In a lot of NA parties (except a few), there is usually a designated 'puller' or 'fishermen'. If an area is not crowded or monsters are close to the camp, this can work very well. However, in open areas or crowded areas (say Kazham), it is always a good idea to have 2-3 pullers. All melees should have some kind of ranged weapons equipped.

In JP parties, there are no designated 'puller'. All melees (except PLD) will go searching after each battle.

Communication between Pullers
If you have (and you should) multiple pullers, you should not pull unless you get an 'OK' from other pullers. Each puller should have 2 Pulling Macros:
1) /p <t> Sighted, Ready? <scall8>
2) /p Pulling <t>. Ready for battle! <scall9>
/ra <t>

Macro 1 is to confirm the pull, Macro 2 is the actual pulling.

Checking monster
Before pulling a monster, you should always check it. You will never want to pull an IT++ to start a chain! Nor you will want to end a Chain #5 with an Even Match.

Generally, you will like to do something like the following:
1) Tough or Very Tough to start the chain and build TP
2) Incredibly tough, skillchain and magic burst
3) Very Tough to build TP
4) Very Tough to build TP
5) Incredibly Tough to finish Chain. Release all TP and magic burst to kill as fast as possible for Chain #5.

The above can varie based on the setup on your party. It's just a general idea on how Chain #5 should be obtained. If you have 3 RNGs or 3 BLM in your PT, just forget the above and pull all IT. But that doesn't happen very often.

Timing
Here's a chart on the time limit on sustaining a chain.
[High LVL in PT] [Time for Chain #1] [Penalty after each chain]
1-9 ------------ 50 sec ------------ 10 sec
10-19 --------- 100 sec --------- 20 sec
20-29 --------- 150 sec --------- 30 sec
30-39 --------- 200 sec --------- 40 sec
40-49 --------- 250 sec --------- 50 sec
50-59 --------- 300 sec --------- 60 sec
60+ ----------- 350 sec --------- 70 sec

For example, if your PT's highest level is 55, after 1st chain you have 3 minutes until the next chain! Just let your mages rest for 1 minute (usually back to full), then pull the 2nd monster.

After 2nd kill, you will have 300-(penalty*chain#), which is 300-(60sec*1) = 240sec until next kill. So you can rest for about 40 seconds or so. Mages and Paladins need MP to sustain the chain. And if the time allows, let everyone heal up.

Before ending Chain #4, a puller should already be searching for the next monster and ready to pull as soon as the monster is killed. This is the only way you can kill fast enough for a Chain 5.

Chain 5 on Incredibly Tough before level 40 is extremely hard, becuase you need to kill the monster in less than 1 minute. So either finish Chain #4 using an Incredibly Tough or finish Chain #5 with something easy.

Choosing an area
You should always perform a search in various leveling areasbefore heading out. You never want too much competition or else it will be pointless to fight 1 monster every 10 minutes. Generally, 2-3 PTs is ideal for large areas such at Terrigan, and 1-2 PTs for smaller areas.

If you didn't search and you find out there is already a party at a 'good' camp spot. It is very rude to just camp in front of them.

Don't be afraid to try out new locations. You don't have to go to Kazham at level 25! Being level 33 doesn't mean you have to go to Garlaige! There are lists on various websites on suggested leveling areas. Print out a list.

I've been in Japanese parties that tried out a new area (which worked great) because all the popular spots were taken. How did you think people come up with lists of suggested area? Someone had to try them out first right?

Monster Pop/Aggro
There will be times that you are forced to camp at a location where monsters will pop or in the path of an agressive monster. The respawn timer on regular monster is 16 minutes, starting from the time of death. Someone in the party should be keeping track of this and notify members when the time is near. Then pullers should stay at the camp and wait for the monster to pop.
#2 Oct 17 2004 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Nice guide, and well-written. Has a lot of info I didn't know about, particularly the hard numbers for things like repop times. ^^ Now if only some of the parties I've been in would read this...
#3 Oct 17 2004 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
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224 posts
Nice. Rate up, its a good guide.
#4 Oct 17 2004 at 4:06 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
n JP parties, there are no designated 'puller'. All melees (except PLD) will go searching after each battle.


In the majority of JP parties I go in, there is usually only one puller...
#5 Oct 17 2004 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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785 posts
Much better than your advice post about party invites ^^

Rate up.
#6 Oct 17 2004 at 4:30 PM Rating: Default
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3,571 posts
Mrqq wrote:
\

In JP parties, there are no designated 'puller'. All melees (except PLD) will go searching after each battle.



Uhh... No? Where do you get your information from? This most certainly is not the case.

Addition:
Mrqq wrote:
]16 minutes

Uhh.... Wrong again? It's very much closer to 5 minutes. Monsters spawn in a selection of areas, and the average respawn time is 5 minutes. It varies per monster and area.


I don't know where you're getting this information from, except perhaps your ***, because just skimming over it I read some things that were very wrong

Edited, Sun Oct 17 17:32:34 2004 by Chtulhu
#7 Oct 17 2004 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
Chtulhu the Quick wrote:
Mrqq wrote:
\

In JP parties, there are no designated 'puller'. All melees (except PLD) will go searching after each battle.



Uhh... No? Where do you get your information from? This most certainly is not the case.

Addition:
Mrqq wrote:
]16 minutes

Uhh.... Wrong again? It's very much closer to 5 minutes. Monsters spawn in a selection of areas, and the average respawn time is 5 minutes. It varies per monster and area.


I don't know where you're getting this information from, except perhaps your ***, because just skimming over it I read some things that were very wrong

Edited, Sun Oct 17 17:32:34 2004 by Chtulhu


If I made an error, I will admit it and change it, but say I'm pulling information out of my ***, that, I can't take.

I've been playing on the import long enough to party with a lot of different people. NA parties, JP parties, mixed parties and what not. The information that I posted are gathered from what I have learned over time (from online sources or other more experienced players).

There are different players on the server and did I mention based on the setup of your party, things might be a little different? What I'm posted are 'Tips', not 'Facts' or 'Laws' that you have to obey. I wanted to share my knowledge but that's what I got in return?

Also, feel free to test the 16 minute pop time. I suspect you're refering to large open areas filled with various types of monsters. Maybe the 5 minutes pop that you're refering to was a monster that got killed by another party 11 minutes ago? Again, monster pop time can be different, but 16 minutes is the general time. I'm sure people hunting Liches for the Genkai 1 papyrus will be very happy if the pop time is 5 minutes.

A few popular areas have camps with monster pops. Such as the Rumble Crawler camp near the Helm Beetle, lvl 47 lvling spot. Hati in King Ranpere's Tomb camp(s), lvl 68-71 lvling spot. Bomb/Goblin pop in Cape Terrigan Cockatrice camp. lvl 63-66 camp etc etc.

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong. Sorry if I sounded rude =/ I was kind of mad.

#8REDACTED, Posted: Oct 18 2004 at 2:35 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) OK, now I know for sure you are -
#9 Oct 19 2004 at 6:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,973 posts
Don't worry about Chthuluh, Mrqq. No one respects him and everyone knows that he only posts here to release some hidden angst within and flame everyone to make himself feel important. (*'-')b
#10 Oct 19 2004 at 6:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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4,049 posts
The most important information you mentioned in the guide was the time between chains.

Almost ALL parties I exp in pull immediately after the first mob has died. You have a lot of time for chain 1, and any resting you can do after the death of the first mob just gets you that much closer to chain 5+.

Good job.
#11 Oct 19 2004 at 6:51 PM Rating: Excellent
Normal repop is 16 minutes in most areas. Some areas/monster types are faster (5 minutes in Zi'tah, maybe West Altepa too), some are slower (Ruby Quadav and other near-NM beastmen are 20 minutes) but the majority of monsters in the game are 16 minutes.

You can verify this very easily by attending a Zvahl Coffer Key hunt, where you kill 5 key droppers (1 ariman, 4 demons) per 16 minutes and the wait for them to respawn. Or, a WHM Tavnazian Bell hunt, which is 4 Dark Stalkers per spawn cycle, again on a 16 minute timer.

Notably, eldieme lich respawn in the glacier entrance is 16 minutes. There are no lotteries in this area; killing mummies will not help liches spawn any faster. In the bottom, there are 2 liches, 2 mummies, and 2 ka in each room. There are 2 liches in the sarcophagus room. There are 2 wolf types that roam on the stairs. There is 1 lich and 2 mummies in each alcove near the zoneline. This is a total of 8 liches every 16 minutes, or 30 per hour, which can easily be monopolized by 2 non-incompetent parties with cycles to spare. Considering how bad the drop rate for Papyrus is...
#12 Oct 19 2004 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
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773 posts
Besides the Comment about Jp Pulls to Na, Good info :)

Good Lord Cth, Calm down on the Flaming. Especially considering your are the Person who Cries about thier Karma. Perhaps you should vent @ the Local bar and get into some Bar fights >.>
#13 Oct 19 2004 at 11:44 PM Rating: Good
Great info, esp. the chain timing.

Chtulhu wrote:

*failed attempt to enlarge e-******


/point
/laugh
#14 Oct 20 2004 at 12:25 AM Rating: Decent
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2,511 posts
Well written, qq (although 300 sec is 5 min, not 3 :P)

The point about pullers is spot on though...nearly all JP parties I've been in have multiple pullers, very few NA ones do. We had a party in the Den of Rancor once that acually scared off the competition by having multiple pullers out all the time. The other group's puller couldn't even find a lizard...
#15 Oct 20 2004 at 12:32 AM Rating: Decent
It's Just a Flesh Wound
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22,702 posts
Mrqq wrote:
Chtulhu the Quick wrote:
Mrqq wrote:
\

In JP parties, there are no designated 'puller'. All melees (except PLD) will go searching after each battle.



Uhh... No? Where do you get your information from? This most certainly is not the case.

Addition:
Mrqq wrote:
]16 minutes

Uhh.... Wrong again? It's very much closer to 5 minutes. Monsters spawn in a selection of areas, and the average respawn time is 5 minutes. It varies per monster and area.


I don't know where you're getting this information from, except perhaps your ***, because just skimming over it I read some things that were very wrong

Edited, Sun Oct 17 17:32:34 2004 by Chtulhu


If I made an error, I will admit it and change it, but say I'm pulling information out of my ***, that, I can't take.

I've been playing on the import long enough to party with a lot of different people. NA parties, JP parties, mixed parties and what not. The information that I posted are gathered from what I have learned over time (from online sources or other more experienced players).

There are different players on the server and did I mention based on the setup of your party, things might be a little different? What I'm posted are 'Tips', not 'Facts' or 'Laws' that you have to obey. I wanted to share my knowledge but that's what I got in return?

Also, feel free to test the 16 minute pop time. I suspect you're refering to large open areas filled with various types of monsters. Maybe the 5 minutes pop that you're refering to was a monster that got killed by another party 11 minutes ago? Again, monster pop time can be different, but 16 minutes is the general time. I'm sure people hunting Liches for the Genkai 1 papyrus will be very happy if the pop time is 5 minutes.

A few popular areas have camps with monster pops. Such as the Rumble Crawler camp near the Helm Beetle, lvl 47 lvling spot. Hati in King Ranpere's Tomb camp(s), lvl 68-71 lvling spot. Bomb/Goblin pop in Cape Terrigan Cockatrice camp. lvl 63-66 camp etc etc.

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong. Sorry if I sounded rude =/ I was kind of mad.



in all the JP partys i've had, there was usally 2 pullers, me not pulling of course cause i had no clue if i should pull or not.

also, mobs spawn times range from 12 min to 16 min.. to anyone else who disagrees with this, go to castle oz where Mee Deggi spawns, and kill a placeholder, in almost exactly 12 min later a new yag will spawn.

(btw most of this was backup for the OP)
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#16 Oct 20 2004 at 12:49 AM Rating: Decent
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705 posts
In regard to the chain timing - I see a lot of post about 150 seconds being the kill timer for chain #1 for lvl 20+. I was EXPing last night in Qufim with my BLM, and I used a stopwatch to check whether we can make a chain or not. From the chart, chain 4 should be 60 seconds, but the party definitely took over 1 minute to kill the mob (20 seconds just for the pull due to lack of mob) but we still hit chain 4. (1:20) I think the starting point for chain 1 be 180 seconds for lvl 20-29.

Chain 1 - 3:00
Chain 2 - 2:30
Chain 3 - 2:00
Chain 4 - 1:30
Chain 5 - 1:00
Chain 6 - 0:30

#17 Oct 20 2004 at 2:16 AM Rating: Decent
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I mostly see it take about 2.5 game hour for a monster to respawn, i've noticed it on the "wait" type spawn points, like ghosts at night, and the tomb bats in ranparre's tomb.

I find it hard to make much out of the regular types though, since there's often too many around for me to be able to monitor the respawn time mostly, and spawn points can be hard to determine too.
#18 Oct 20 2004 at 4:43 AM Rating: Default
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3,571 posts
No, you see, I don't care about my karma - Which is why I continue to tell it like it is, and not be nice about it.


What's funny is that I never rated the OP down, merely adressed the things that were obviously wrong about it.


Gonads, I can quote a large amount of people as calling me a good poster, but that's besides the point. You're just mad that I and some others shot down your painfully wrong ideas a while back.... Talking about how a strategy wouldn't work, yet it is still in use today.

It was quite fun watching my karma drop for a few days as you went through my 500 or so posts at the time to rate me down.



Deadgye, 2 pullers is not the same as "All melee besides the tank". I often have a RNG and THF go out and pull, because they're both well adapted to it. I don't make the RNG DRK and THF go out, because it's just stupid.



As for Mee Deggi's spawns, NM placeholders are quite a bit different than normal spawns. I can name more that are like this. The reason for this is the fact that it's such an enclosed area, and they do that to keep a reasonable amount of mobs in the area, and still keep the NM at a staggered time without too many chances for him to spawn once his timer is up. Hoo Mjuu has a similar thing employed with him.


That lich thing is still very wrong, I went out and timed it, just to make sure.

Our camp was on the tunnel to the right of the first cave room. We pulled from both rooms on either side.

We pulled both liches at the same time, and killed them in roughly 2 minutes. We pulled the other ones immediately after, same timespan.

4 minutes and 23 seconds later, the liches respawned in the first room. So 6 and a half minutes later, they were back.


As for the lottery pop, I was referring to the I-10 entrance from the main section of Batallia Downs, as I apparently need to spell it out for you. You know, the section with the gates and switches.

#19 Oct 20 2004 at 5:01 AM Rating: Good
[/poke]QQ^^ you're just everywhere. regardless if Mrqq is in my LS or not, all of my 70+ parties that have been consisted of JP Only (me being the only NA), it's true that IN MY EXPERIENCE, all of the melee DO walk around and pull. but i think it's because my party setup has consisted more like 2 Rangers, 2 Black Mages, a Bard, and myself (Paladin) on average. i've partied with Mrqq during our static days and the info that he has posted i've already experienced on hand. regardless of what i say and what other ppl think... is really not my problem. but what he posted... works, and THAT's what's really important.

Edited, Wed Oct 20 06:02:18 2004 by ultraman
#20 Oct 20 2004 at 5:05 AM Rating: Default
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3,571 posts
ultraman wrote:
[/poke]QQ^^ you're just everywhere. regardless if Mrqq is in my LS or not, all of my 70+ parties that have been consisted of JP Only (me being the only NA), it's true that IN MY EXPERIENCE, all of the melee DO walk around and pull. but i think it's because my party setup has consisted more like 2 Rangers, 2 Black Mages, a Bard, and myself (Paladin) on average. i've partied with Mrqq during our static days and the info that he has posted i've already experienced on hand. regardless of what i say and what other ppl think... is really not my problem. but what he says... works, and THAT's what's really important.


Then he needs to calrify what he says. If you have 2 melee jobs that are very good at pulling, then by all means, that works. But by what he's posting it makes it sounds like if your PT is a WAR, DRK, NIN, RNG, DRG, WHN, then your WAR, DRK, RNG, and DRG are all going to be pulling - and that's not going to be useful.


The problem having too many pullers creates is that not everyone arrives back at the camp at the same time, and there is a higher chance of aggro with multiple people, and many more ways for things to go wrong.

I can guaruntee that the JP aren't making every melee besides the tank pull. Having 2 people pull and them being the only melee in the party aren't connected.

As his post is worded, it's misleading.
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