** Disclaimer - this is my opinion. I assert it as my opinion only. **
I've never had a static party (hopefully that will change soon).
I have however been in hundreds of pickup parties. There are a few things that get neglected over and over, and these lead to slow starts, inefficient progression, and even death. I had frustration with this last night, so I just wanted to share a few thoughs.
Getting there - Running, Sneak, Invis, Oils and Powders
I know that everyone is eager to get to where they're going. Running through Eastern Alteppa => Western Alteppa => Kuftal Tunnel => Cape Terrigan => Valley of Sorrows for example is a long way. The problem comes up when some people run ahead, some fall behind, some have powders, some don't, some know the way, and some are travelling the route for the first time...
First of all - stick together. There is nothing worse than losing a party member on the way. They might get lost, they might get killed - either way you're wasting a ridiculous amount of time due to lack of patience. Wait for your members and overall you save yourself a lot of time and grief.
Now - as for the Oils/Powders vs. Sneak/Invis debate - Powders and oils cost a good deal of gil. I believe that every melee should be carrying them at all times, but that mages should re-apply sneak and invis for the non-mages when possible. Sneak and Invis items are essential for an emergency - it is not fair for a melee to expect a mage to de-invis in the middle of a danger zone. Generally, however, I find that if you partner up (one caster and one non-caster per partnership) makes this very easy - and at L50+ (where you're going to have to travel pretty far to get to a location) there are generally 3 casters w/ Sneak/Invis.
Setting up the Skill-Chain
I am always blown away when we get to a leveling spot and the puller just runs out to grab the first mob right away. What about the skill chain? It takes 30 seconds to plan the skill chain, and trying to set up the skill chain during battle is a good way to get confused. It takes 60 seconds to plan a skill-chain, set up appropriate macros, and make sure that the mages know what to burst with.
Playing without a skill-chain is ridiculously inefficient, and starting without one is a good way to slow things down right off the bat.
Deciding on and dividing up Enfeebling Magic
Non-mages might not pay much attention to this, but as a RDM (Having an A+ in Enfeebling Magic) I find it annoying when WHMs and BLMs just start spewing out whatever they feel like.
Enfeebles cost anywhere from 9 to 35 MP. Every time you see "whiteMage's Slow has no effect on the Velociraptor" you can be sure there is a lack of communication on your mage line.
I'm biased (being an RDM) but I believe that the RDM should divide up the Enfeebling responsibilites at the beginning of the party to both ensure that every enfeeble is cast and to make sure no one is wasting MP. Personally, I like to Cast Paralyze, Slow and Gravity and leave the Dia II to the WHM (because it always lands). The BLM can add the Elemental Enfeebles to the mix. Last night I actually had a BLM/RDM in my party who insisted on casting Gravity! He asked me if HE could cast it. I said "I wouldn't mind if you didn't always miss." He got pissed off - I think he felt that since he chose RDM as his subjob, he should get to cast Gravity - well... I don't think the party wants to see his Gravity miss just because it's a novel spell for a BLM.
---
So ... In conclusion - be patient, head out as a group, plan your skill chain and Enfeebling magic, and you're going to be off to a much smoother start!
Edited, Fri Oct 8 15:54:50 2004 by kingjord
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dingjord wrote:
First of all - stick together. There is nothing worse than losing a party member on the way. They might get lost, they might get killed - either way you're wasting a ridiculous amount of time due to lack of patience. Wait for your members and overall you save yourself a lot of time and grief.
It bothers me to no end when as soon as your done casting sneak and invis the meles are already moving. Then they wonder why they die when you can't get to them fast enough...
kingjord wrote:
well... I don't think the party wants to see his Gravity miss just because a novel spell for a BLM.
Quote:
It bothers me to no end when as soon as your done casting sneak and invis the meles are already moving. Then they wonder why they die when you can't get to them fast enough...
Melee: Kingjord where the hell are you
Melee: uck kingjord you just got me killed
Kingjord: Do you know that I have to wait 7-8 seconds after I cast sneak on you to get it on myself before I can start running?
Melee: Well, you should carry Silent Oils, noob
/kick
...
That never really happened ...
About setting up skillchains:
The BLM in the party should be directly responsible for setting up the skillchain. It is a BLMs job, first and foremost, to know the elemental weakness of the mobs they are fighting. Because of this knowledge, the BLM should set up a skillchain that plays to that weakness and allows them to burst the appropriate spell the mob is weak against.
Melees, please don't get into arguments about which WS you like to use more, or that you *know* that these two skills chain when they in fact do not. Let the BLM tell you what they would like you to do. Your party will be much better for it.
The BLM in the party should be directly responsible for setting up the skillchain. It is a BLMs job, first and foremost, to know the elemental weakness of the mobs they are fighting. Because of this knowledge, the BLM should set up a skillchain that plays to that weakness and allows them to burst the appropriate spell the mob is weak against.
Melees, please don't get into arguments about which WS you like to use more, or that you *know* that these two skills chain when they in fact do not. Let the BLM tell you what they would like you to do. Your party will be much better for it.
/cheer
Rate up because I read that the 3rd spell in your enfeebling run-down is Gravity! Praise you sir! You are a truely noble RDM.
Too many mages I've played with don't bother to enfeeble the beasties evasion and they get confused when the melee are having trouble hitting and building TP for the skillchain.
The basis of a good party is to know your prey's strengths and to exploit their weakness. Sure is great that that Torama checks low defense, would be nice if we could bash on it.
Rate up because I read that the 3rd spell in your enfeebling run-down is Gravity! Praise you sir! You are a truely noble RDM.
Too many mages I've played with don't bother to enfeeble the beasties evasion and they get confused when the melee are having trouble hitting and building TP for the skillchain.
The basis of a good party is to know your prey's strengths and to exploit their weakness. Sure is great that that Torama checks low defense, would be nice if we could bash on it.
The Glorious kingjord wrote:
Quote:
It bothers me to no end when as soon as your done casting sneak and invis the meles are already moving. Then they wonder why they die when you can't get to them fast enough...
Melee: Kingjord where the hell are you
Melee: uck kingjord you just got me killed
Kingjord: Do you know that I have to wait 7-8 seconds after I cast sneak on you to get it on myself before I can start running?
Melee: Well, you should carry Silent Oils, noob
/kick
...
That never really happened ...
Quote:
The BLM in the party should be directly responsible for setting up the skillchain. It is a BLMs job, first and foremost, to know the elemental weakness of the mobs they are fighting. Because of this knowledge, the BLM should set up a skillchain that plays to that weakness and allows them to burst the appropriate spell the mob is weak against.
Melees, please don't get into arguments about which WS you like to use more, or that you *know* that these two skills chain when they in fact do not. Let the BLM tell you what they would like you to do. Your party will be much better for it.
Melees, please don't get into arguments about which WS you like to use more, or that you *know* that these two skills chain when they in fact do not. Let the BLM tell you what they would like you to do. Your party will be much better for it.
While I agree with what you're saying in concept, I have seen a lot of problems with the BLM calling the skill chains.
Mainly - BLMs may know which element works, but they often don't know about the various Weapon Skills. I have seen a big fight erupt because a BLM absolutely insisted that a melee use a WS that does nothing but stun. The melee said "No, that does 10 damage and stuns, it's no a damage WS" and the BLM said "Look I know what I'm talking about! We need a fire SC!"
I would say that deciding on the skill should be a democratic group decision. Also, it should not be set in stone - if it's not working well for any reason, it should definitely be changed.
Agreed, the knowledge many BLMs have of Weapon Skills can be somewhat shallow. =) Maybe I should change my statement up a bit.
Melees: if the weapon skills the BLM suggests are not appropriate (for example, Stun WS or AoE WS), feel free to bring that up. However, please also try to be as helpful as possible in trying to give alternative weapon skills that will still produce the same end result.
Also, yeah, if a chain isn't working out, certaintly change it!
Melees: if the weapon skills the BLM suggests are not appropriate (for example, Stun WS or AoE WS), feel free to bring that up. However, please also try to be as helpful as possible in trying to give alternative weapon skills that will still produce the same end result.
Also, yeah, if a chain isn't working out, certaintly change it!
Quote:
Agreed, the knowledge many BLMs have of Weapon Skills can be somewhat shallow. =) Maybe I should change my statement up a bit.
Melees: if the weapon skills the BLM suggests are not appropriate (for example, Stun WS or AoE WS), feel free to bring that up. However, please also try to be as helpful as possible in trying to give alternative weapon skills that will still produce the same end result.
Also, yeah, if a chain isn't working out, certaintly change it!
Melees: if the weapon skills the BLM suggests are not appropriate (for example, Stun WS or AoE WS), feel free to bring that up. However, please also try to be as helpful as possible in trying to give alternative weapon skills that will still produce the same end result.
Also, yeah, if a chain isn't working out, certaintly change it!
Now we agree 100% ^^
I may be somewhat biased...
Obviously, you should let the Samurai decide what the skillchain should be. It's our job to renkei, and I make a point of knowing what creatures are weak to what element, what Weaponskills are good for what purpose, what level BLM, RDM and DRK get what elemental spell, and I build Parties around these factors.
When you get it exactly right and the melee are doig high damage WSes, onto a magic burst that is the creatures weakness, with the most recent BLM nuke that is available because you decided to go and fight the critters that are weak to it... it's a really noticeable differnece in the kill speed.
Obviously, you should let the Samurai decide what the skillchain should be. It's our job to renkei, and I make a point of knowing what creatures are weak to what element, what Weaponskills are good for what purpose, what level BLM, RDM and DRK get what elemental spell, and I build Parties around these factors.
When you get it exactly right and the melee are doig high damage WSes, onto a magic burst that is the creatures weakness, with the most recent BLM nuke that is available because you decided to go and fight the critters that are weak to it... it's a really noticeable differnece in the kill speed.
Oh yeah ^^ ... the SAM
SAMs are awesome... but rare in my experiences...
By level 30, I had all of my telepoint crystals already =). So a PT that wanted to exp somewhere from the norm was never a problem for me.
Don't forget to do the outpost supply quests!
I've been trying to do all the outpost supply quests whenever my home country has control over it. Before getting your airship pass (rank 5), it's nice to be able to get to Jeuno via Qufim outpost. The chocobo ride is quite taxing. In any case, I always have my HP set in Jeuno where I can just warp back to Jeuno. Others can just deathwarp a level 1 job or use NIN's 2hour. Once you get rank 5, things get even more convenient.
Don't forget to do the outpost supply quests!
I've been trying to do all the outpost supply quests whenever my home country has control over it. Before getting your airship pass (rank 5), it's nice to be able to get to Jeuno via Qufim outpost. The chocobo ride is quite taxing. In any case, I always have my HP set in Jeuno where I can just warp back to Jeuno. Others can just deathwarp a level 1 job or use NIN's 2hour. Once you get rank 5, things get even more convenient.
The role of picking skillchains should not necessarily be designated to someone because of their job. It's likely that a black mage you party with didn't do their homework, or doesn't have a skillchain chart. The same could be true of a samurai, although it's a little less likely.
Going back through lower jobs I can usually pick out a good skillchain (or two) if I know what weapons are involved and what element is desired (which I usually know anyway). When that is the case, I'm not going to withold my input because I happen to be playing a mage or tank at the time.
Going back through lower jobs I can usually pick out a good skillchain (or two) if I know what weapons are involved and what element is desired (which I usually know anyway). When that is the case, I'm not going to withold my input because I happen to be playing a mage or tank at the time.
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