A SMN's plea to WHM'sFollow

That is rediculous, he wouldn't raise you because your job was SMN? thats messed up!

Wow, if I had a WHM in my party that wouldn't raise another member, I'd boot them regarless of race, nationality, or creed. Talk about stupid.

WHM are best in a party when paired with another support class, like a RDM, BRD, or SMN. Having any of those classes heal is like having a BLM switch to MND gear and heal. It's just not the same! Everyone sees a slowdown in invites as they get to higher levels because people switch jobs, or quit the game, WHMs just seem to notice more because they're in such high demand early on, and unfortunately they have multiple scapegoats to blame it on.

The WHM that refused to raise me was literally, at one time, standing on my corpse. S/he was in a party but they did have downtime a couple times while I lay their for 30min. MY party was done too, disbanded. all I wanted was a Raise to warp out of there.

Edited, Mon Oct 4 16:13:48 2004 by Greenfource

I have never seen a smn that actually wanted to be the main healer, this whm must have been on crack.

Greenfource pointed me to this thread.

I can't speak for all White Mages, but I think it is common knowledge that we do get replaced by Summoners and a spot that would have otherwise gone to us is given to a SMN. Green admitted as much by saying he couldn't get anywhere post 41 without accepting those invites where the WHM gets the shaftaru.

The truth is, you do replace us in parties and some WHM may take deep offense to this. I felt the same mix of emotions when I realized after partying with summoners in a SMN/WHM/RDM or BLM setup that you guys do just find being the party healers and that quite conceivably an invite I would have gotten would have gone to a summoner instead.

WHMs will react differently to this reality. For me personally I've come to accept the notion of co-existence. In a leveling zone environment, I treat every party as a competitor for mobs, but also as a safety net for when things go wrong. And as the White Mage in a particular area, my Red and White AF advertises to others that yes, they have a Raise II in the area. I'm quite happy to fullfill that obligation. I think the majority of White Mages follow this mantra in one form or another. We help as much as we can. (btw, this also applies to raising Bards and Red Mages) Unfortunatelly, I suspect many parties take advantage of this generosity and make parties without us with the expectation that there is a good chance of a Raise II nearby.

I take it on a case by case basis. But as much as I'd like to be nice, and be courteous, I am also human. Just as Greenfource admits he needs to take WHM spots post 41 to go anywhere, the reality of it is that WHM may have to resort to hardball tactics of not raising as a kind of protest and signal to not take us for granted.

Melees compete agianst each other all the time. But a party that passes over a THF gives up SATA, and a very good form of hate management. No problem there. A party that passes a WHM however doesn't neccessarily miss what we have to offer in terms of Raise II and III. Some WHM find untenable. It is, as i've said in another post 'a matter of principle' to them. For me personally, I'm still wrestling with this question.


Edited for length

Edited, Mon Oct 4 16:58:24 2004 by Dekusutaa

Edited, Mon Oct 4 16:59:39 2004 by Dekusutaa

True to an extent. Raising an entire party with Raise II or III is a little out of bounds in my opinion, however a raiser must be raised. The original poster appears to have had a problem with not getting a raise *at all* due to the prejudice of a WHM who would not have to go out of his or her way to help.

If your party wipes out, including WHM, most people will hope a party nearby will have noticed and sent someone over to give an appropriate Raise (1-3) to their WHM. Common courtesy and a sense of teamwork.

However if it's me and there is no WHM to raise, chances are everyone but "the healer" will be sucking up whatever raise their party has available. You knew what you were getting into and without causing significant inconvenience to another party, you just can't expect the benefits of an out-of-party job. Dance with the one that brought you.



I've waited on far more stupid problems from other members of a party. Most people do not consider helping others to be "stupid." Being in an exp party when you are "cramming for a really important test at school" is stupid. People falling asleep because they're on a 24 hour levelling binge is stupid. Forgetting to voke because you're arguing with someone in LS is stupid. Helping others (be it carrying in groceries for your mom, letting the dog out, changing a diaper, or raising someone from a fallen party) is not stupid.

It's a matter of being considerate to others. Including your own party. If I raise one person who lays dead at my feet at the end of my party's current exp chain (which was essentially the scenario posted originally, not a matter of running off), that's 30 seconds for the raise and about one minute of additional resting time -- during which you are free to grab a soda, hit the bathroom, stretch your legs and hug your girlfriend.

We'll all feel better and have not lost anything. Just a simple afk call, perhaps a little earlier than the party would have planned.

of course, after lvl 33, u shouldn't even have to raise people's whm. reraise seems to get over looked quite alot, it's really not that hard to keep on and eliminates the need for other pts to come around and raise ur whm.

@62 as a Elvaan Summoner, I can keep a whole party healed through chain 5, buff stoneskin for aoe, take off diseased with spring water, or magic burst once a fight, and float above 250 mp untill chain 5. :P I'm glad s-e changed smn. Now I can catch up with my friends. White mages, you better pray I never get fenrir :D Then I'd be trully sexy!

Umm do you have {Fenrir}?

j/k ;^P (Had to throw that in there)

That sucks though, ive heard that sometimes PT members dont wanna invite RDMs cause they will take over the spot of the WHM, so im kinda in the same boat as you. >< I feel yo pain!

Edited, Mon Oct 4 18:16:44 2004 by Darkwoodfourfour

There's a huge difference between ASKING someone for a Raise and DEMANDING it. From what it seems, the OP wasn't demanding a Raise, but waited patiently for 30 minutes, in the hopes that during one of the downtimes in between chains the WHM could raise him...

127 MP is a pittance to wait for. Oh it's an extra 30-40 seconds inbetween a chain. Big deal. You'd save that player an hour or so worth of grief...

(If they were courteous about it, which the OP certainly seems to be).

Yes I do



And I was very courteous, until he said no because I was the WHM, then I got a little angry. The reasoning just baffled me.

I'm confused, but I think you're saying that if I died in front of a party would I expect them to raise me?

No, I would not except them to Raise me. If they decided to do so I would accept the raise since they've already wasted their time and MP on me and not doing so would be rude.

One of the risks I accept when I go someplace dangerous solo is that I might die. I understand and accept this risk, and do my best not to die.

Should I die anyway, I will most likely ask my LS if anyone can Raise me. If no one is available to do so (ie, soloing themselves and not otherwise doing anything), then I accept my foolishness in getting myself killed and return to my Home Point.

Seems to me you are already irresponsible if you're a whm in a party situation and asking other people for a raise.

Reraise. Level 32 (or 33? can't remember). Yeah it takes 150 mp, but it beats waiting for other people to come and help you... and from the sound of your tone... I can't imagine many who would want.

Rate down for being selfish and inconsiderate.