Hi, I have been leveling several lower level jobs lately and have noticed many beginners do not even realize whether they are in a good party or not (understatement). Likewise more experienced players can often get frustrated at the behavior of some newer players (again understatement). So, I thought
I'd put this guide out here to give tips to everyone on how to improve the amount of xp you are getting from levels 1-30 for both newer and more experienced players alike.
To give a little background on myself, these are my current levels for the jobs I have played: Rng 48, Pld 32, Whm 30, War 24, Nin 21, Thf 17, Rdm 15. I have not reached the highest levels of the game, but I know the basics of how just about every job is played.
Also while everyone has their opinion this is how I think of xp in terms of good/bad: 0-1500/hr bad, 1500-3000 good, 3000-4500 great, 4500+ fantastic. While most of us have personally experienced the bad xp range in these early levels, I want to assure everyone that it is very possible to get into the fantastic xp range at this level as well. I have done it several times and I know why I got this kind of xp. I will explain below to each of you how you can get there, or at least get to a higher xp category more consistently.
I. Where do I start?
You start with yourself. Every person in the party affects how much xp the party gets. I admit some roles have a slightly larger affect on this than others (which I will explain below), but each person has an affect on the party's xp.
Most of the things you can do to improve yourself have been put on these forums tons of times. Have your subjob fully leveled. Have a compatible job/subjob (i.e. melee with melee and mage with mage). Have up-to-date gear or even better have exceptional gear. Use food. Go to the job forums here and research your job, so you can be the best you possible.
II. Ok, I'm UBER. Now what?
The next thing to do is choose a place to level. Most people will tell you that "the spot" to level is Valkurm Dunes 11-20, Qufim 19-25, Kahzam 24+. These are in fact the worst spots to gain a lot of xp. I would avoid these spots if possible and take your group somewhere else. Be sure to have 3+ hours set aside if you are going to do this though. Putting together a good group outside of "the spot" will easily take an hour or more. Also I believe it will be easier to put a group together if you are a Whm or know a Whm, but it can still be done if you are not. Finding the Whm is usually the hardest part though.
If you don't have 3+ hours set aside, then you are better off going to "the spot" and having to deal with what you get there. The xp won't be as good, but there are still some things you can look for in order to make the trip less painful.
For alternate locations I can suggest (because I have leveled in these places) the following. Maze of Shakrami is good for levels 11-15, and if your party is lvl 11-12 be sure to bring plenty of healing and Blms or Rngs (Whm + backup and also at least 2 blm and/or Rng). Groups are usually formed in Tahrongi Canyon. From about lvl 14-19 Korroloka Tunnel is extremely good xp. Groups are formed in Bastok. Again a nuke heavy group is nice if you have some 14's. Buburimu Peninsula is good from lvl 12-21. It's basically the dunes with hardly any people. After lvl 20 Jeuno is the best place to form a group. I've leveled in Battalia Downs off goblins and tigers from 25-27, and leveled off leeches in Sea Serpent Grotto from levels 29-31. There are other good spots but I haven't been to them: Sauromuge Champaign 19-21 (hang a right and go into a little alcove where only beetles spawn), Korroloka Tunnel 23-27 (spiders, crabs and eventually pugils), Sahagin in Yuhtunga Jungle near Sea Serpent grotto around lvl 28ish (not sure exact lvl), Sahagin inside Sea Serpent Grotto once you hit 31+. I am sure there are others.
III. How do I know if I have a good party?
Good question! Quite simply, good party is one that is composed of good players. Now finding those good players can be difficult. I can tell you what to look for if you are trying to put a party together. The same guidelines apply if you are invited. Just find out what is in the party and you will know if you are invited to a good one or not.
Here is what I use to find good players (or a good group) in order of importance:
1. Rank
Oh no I said rank was #1! (gasp) I'll have to break this to you: play experience is the most important factor in making a player become a good player. I can tell how experienced a player is by looking at their rank. Most rank 3 players I find are decent or better. Almost all rank 5+ players are really good players. Not only do these people know what they are doing, but they have more money to spend on eqiupment and food. If you are not rank 3+, then try to get into a group where most of the people are, and follow the lead of the the most experienced person. Ask them questions if you are not sure about your role in their group. Many (not all though) will be happy to give tips on how to be a better tank, puller, healer, etc..., because it will help them get more xp.
2. Party formation
Ideally all the people in your party will be the same level. Usually this is not the case. If not then it is best to have the tank and other melees be the highest levels. Mages can be 1 or 2 levels lower and it won't affect the parties xp too much. (It will affect their personal xp somewhat though.) The reason is that heals and nukes do not change much in effectiveness regardless of how strong the mob is. Melees however have their accuracy and damage lowered the higher level the mob is above them. Tanks also get hit harder and more often. Nukes get resisted sometimes, but at these levels it is usually not as bad as what a tank or melee has to go through against an IT mob.
Other than that what you really need is 1 Tank, 1 Healer, 2 Damage and 2 other. The 2 other can be damage or (at most one of these) support, back-up tank, or back-up healer. Also, having a class geared toward pulling like Rng or Thf is a good idea, but not necessary. In case you don't know the roles for each job, here they are (as I see them).
Tank: Paladin or Ninja, War if you can't find the first 2. (War/Nin can actually be as good a tank as the first 2, but they have to be at least lvl 24 and use Utsusemi.) If you invite a Nin/War to tank then make sure he uses Utsusemi.
Healer: White Mage or Red Mage. White Mage is preferable, since they are more suited to the job, and many Red Mages do not want to be healer.
Damage: Blm, Rng, Drk, Drg, Thf, Mnk, Sam, Bst, War. (War is actually a good damage job too, but most low lvl Wars do not know how to play it as such.)
Support/Back-up healer: Brd, Smn, Rdm, or another Whm.
Back-up tank: War or any damage job with War sub except Blm or Rng.
The main reason to get a Paladin and a White Mage, over say a Warrior and a Red Mage, is that the Paladin player will always want to tank, and the White Mage will always want to heal. With a Warrior and a Red Mage you don't always know what you are going to get. In fact from levels 21-30 any melee with a War sub can tank about as well as a War. Most willl not want to though.
3. Friends
If you have played with someone that you know is a good player, then why not invite them back again. Check your friends list for anyone of the right level, that fits into the group.
4. Subjob
Sometimes a person with an underleveled sub is a good player (or at least an ok player), but usually this is not the case. They didn't take the time to level their subjob, so will they take the time to get good gear, use food, and learn how to play their job? Usually the answer is no.
A person with a mage/melee mix can be a problem too, but usually I have more problem with people with underleveled subs. Often at low levels you can get weird combos to work in ways that will never work at higher levels. A person that has an underleveled subjob and a melee/mage combo is someone you should definitely avoid.
5. Equipment
Actually equipment is usually more important than subjob, but you often do not have the luxury of seeing someones equipment. If the person has good gear then invite them (if you are the leader). If you see a person that you have already invited has really bad equipment then you can keep that in mind for the future (or ask the leader to boot them if its really bad).
6. Race
I put this here, because I wanted race to be at the bottom. In reality race doesn't matter. The above 5 things are so much more important that if you are judging on race then you need to go back to the first 5 points. Race does give small stat bonuses, but equipment makes so much more difference than these small bonuses especially at these low levels.
Aside: Actually there is one stat where race makes a difference. It's mp and it really only matters if your main healer is a Galka. Even this stat (mp) is still not as significant as the above 5 points though.
IV. Ok, we're assembled let's rock and roll!
Unless you are hunting worms you need to set up camp somewhere. Most importantly find a place where aggroing mobs will not spawn on you, but you also want a spot that is close to the mobs you are hunting.
Before you start you pulling mobs get your strategies worked out. Mages should work out healing and debuffing duties. Provokers should work out a provoke strategy (main and back-up, when to provoke, etc...). Someone should be designated puller; a melee who is experienced at the game (i.e. high rank) and has a ranged weapon works best.
Melees must set up a skillchain. This is very important, so don't skip on the skillchain especially if your party has a Thief. This is the skillchain chart I use, because it is easy to print out. http://ffvault.ign.com/skillchains/skillchainrenkei.pdf
Explaining skillchaining can be a guide itself, but here are some quick tips. The most common chains are Distortion and Fusion. Usually the mob you are fighting will be weak to one of these 2. If you are prepared look up the mob here at allakhazam and see it's weaknesses. Distortion elements are Wind and Ice. Fusion elements are Fire and Light. To make a Distortion chain start with a weapon skill on the light chart (the white one at the bottom), and follow with a weapon skill on the stone chart (the one in yellow) about 3 seconds later. For Fusion start with a fire weaponskill and follow with a thunder weapon skill. Even if no one in your group is sure what the mob is weak to, you should use one of these chains. The damage does help quite a bit, especially if you follow with a Magic burst (a blm spell of the right element cast a few seconds after the chain).
V. Which party members determine how much xp I get?
They all do. Each ok player adds a little to the xp total. Each good player adds a lot to the xp total. Each bad player makes getting xp harder and even gets people killed sometimes.
Bad players are really what you want to avoid. They have many forms: The tank that never Provokes, the Blm who casts all his nukes as fast as he can, the Whm who insists you pull a tougher mob that the party can't handle, the guy who decides to pull even though he is not puller (and he doesn't tell anyone that he's pulling either), the tank that runs in circles around the mob making sneak attack useless, the tank without good armor, etc....
Notice I mentioned tank a lot in that last part. I said before that there are couple of jobs that have a larger impact on the xp you get. The first one is tank. The quality of your tank can mean the difference between 5K xp/hour and negative xp/hour. This is because a good tank needs to do several things. 1) Keep the mob on him. 2) Stay in place so the thief can sneak attack. 3) Take as little damage as possible. A bad tank will mess up on at least one of these things. A good tank will be exceptional at all three. Doing #1 and #2 makes the mob die quicker and doing #3 saves mp for the Whm.
The other job that has a really big impact on xp is puller. A puller can be too quick or too slow. He can pull mobs that are too weak or too strong. He can pull a train of mobs if not careful.
Now the puller is not always fully responsible if he pulls something too difficult or too quickly, because other party members will often tell the puller what to do even if they don't really have a clue what goes into pulling. Usually mages are the worst about insisting that mobs which are too tough be pulled, and damage jobs insist you pull faster. Really though it's the tank that is going to be taking hits, so IMO the tank and puller should agree on what is pulled (also input from any players with a much higher rank is good).
Now someone may ask, "Isn't healer an a really important job too?" All jobs are really important, including healer. Healers are rare, but that doesn't mean they are a more important part of the group, only that they are in high demand. The sad fact is that a healer with no gear and half a spell list can still get by. (Noticed I said get by, this is still not a good healer.) If you have such a healer and the other 5 are giving their all you can still get great xp. A lousy tank or a lousy puller can really mess things up. My advice to mages is this: Shut up about pulling. It seems harsh, but my first job was whm (took it to 30), and I can honestly say I had no clue what was going on. I did my job excellently, but I didn't understand why sometimes I got 2k xp/hour and sometimes I got 5k xp/hour.
VI. Is there anything else I should do?
Yes. I need you to work this math problem:
Group A kills 2 mobs every 3 minutes for 70 xp each with negligible downtime. Group B takes 4 minutes to kill a mob for 200 xp and has 2 minutes downtime. Which group has the most xp at the end of 6 minutes?
Answer: Group A killed 4 mobs for 70 xp each, so that is 280 xp. Group B has 200 xp. Therefore group A got more xp.
Now this problem is not entirely true to what happens in the game. In reality group A is getting xp chains so at the end of 6 minutes they have closer to 350 xp. Notice how we are getting almost twice as much xp this way?
The conclusion is simple, "If you are not getting xp chains, then what you are fighting is too tough. Fight something weaker." Sometimes I realize that is not possible, because the place is overcamped. This is why going to "the spot" is not a good idea. Anytime you have the option of pulling mobs that you can xp chain, then do so. Some groups are good enough that they can chain 200xp mobs. Most are not. Realize what type of group you have and pull accordingly.
One last thing, now that you know how to get good xp, and whether or not you have a good group, don't bail on the group if the first pull is a bad one. If something is going to go wrong it's going to happen on the first pull. The group is not used to each other's playstyles yet, and may not be used to the mobs either. There are plenty of reasons why you should bail: levels don't match, group has no healer, tank has level 1 armor, etc.... If it is one bad pull don't leave, simply ask the puller to pull something else or get someone else to pull. Also if someone is doing something stupid like a Blm who chain nukes then ask them to stop, if they persist then tell them you are leaving because of them and then leave. Patience with a group has caused me to get great xp plenty of times even if things started rocky. Other times people persist in their stupidity and then its time to leave. At least now you have a better idea whether or not your group is a bad one and why.
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How to get good xp from levels 1-30Follow
Its good to be reminded of the basics... Now I just hope some people who need help read this...
Rate up!
Rate up!
I give you an A+ sir!
This is a very useful post except I have some issues with the points at hand. I am no master at all either, I am only a 24RDM/7WHM (the dreaded underleveled sub! lol)
1. The "other" spots at low levels are OK depending on the party. At lvl7 I left Sandy with a 27War and went to Windy which became my second home. I didn't make any friends who were from Sandy until Qufim. The canyon is a GREAT hunting ground. With such a rough terrian, you can hunt anything you choose and aggro can be minimal. I found it best to hunt dhams. near the Pennisula Zone. The Maze as well is a GREAT spot for 2 reasons. A good pty can sit and take out MMs all day long. Also, since a few quests send you here, higher lvl help is available.
2. Safety is key for the critial 13-20 lvls and 21-28ish so unless you are VERY comfortable with your party, don't stray from the dunes or Qifum. Actually though, the Pennisula is a great place to level because you can pull ANYTHING you want without other parties AND be near a safe zone without harming others around you. Going into the Downs, again with a comfortable party is a GRREEEAT (Tony the Tiger haha) idea because you can pull right at a zone without lag. Plus most of your lower levels who would be in danger are usually on chocos anyway like me ;p
3. Rank can be misleading. I've seen some pretty high ranking players who cannot battle for their life. Obviously they were leaning on the other members in their part. A underleveled subjob is also misleading. I took my WHM to lvl7 because at the time, it was half of my RDM. It also enabled 2 spells I wanted to help my parties; Protectra and Poisona. RDMs can actually be great main healers IF they have practiced this skill. I did NOTHING in the dunes BUT main heal. WHMs were rarely ever found and I took on the role even as a Hume. (which suffer from lower MP than such as a Taru) People were amazing I could handle it so well. I've even pulled a lot of main healing in qifum. Although down time is a lot higher, if I can accompany myself with a fellow RDM (which i have many friends) healing AND enfeed are high and down time is low. Any RDM who will turn down the part of healing is not a true RDM IMO. The point of the job itself is to be versitile. You should fill whatever roll your party needs. You can always work that sword ability out soloing on off days. Mine is maxed as is my healing and enhancing magic.
I am glad to see you touched on EXP chains. Even at the Qufim level, people still want to pull ITs and VTs for big EXP. The other night I formed a party of the following: Nin, War, Mnk, RDM(me), PLD, and Drk. We pulled T and VT clips non stop, gathering chains like crazy. I was main healer and I was even pulling! Because we had a nice line up who knew skillchains and had good sub jobs, I was able to pull/heal/nuke AND jump in for some melee. You cannot beat that! When I was out of MP I would pull a T to keep or start a chain and then rest. My PLD or the war with whm subbed would throw some cures when needed and we'd just keep rollin.
Another item I cannot stress enough I learned from a friend who quit the game is Warriors and Provoke. Since the time you got the ability you should be using it every time it is available. THis allows you to control the aggro and hate throughout your leveling. You are useless if you didn't work your characters stats up to allow you to control hate almost entirely. Too many times I see a War who won't provoke a lot OR can't keep hate from a simple Cure spell and the WHM gets dropped. Luckily if you have me as a main healer, I sport a full Lizard setup with a sword to max and bone/amber rings/earrings and a good sheild. So I am never afraid to take a few hits, I can always hope my melee fighter with a whm sub will hit me with a quick cure/cure2.
Make parties with caution. Don't pull up "Find Member" and grab anyone with a job you think might work. Send a message to a player not looking but maybe in a near by area. Many times I've send tells to WHM just hanging in Jeuno with nothing to do. You need to make sure you have a balanced party for WHAT YOU ARE HUNTING! What's the point of having a RDM, WHM, WHM, BLm, War, Mnk if you are hunting Ts for chains? You can do that with just a WHM who has some support.
A few more things:
1. Don't pull without a macro or some form of attention. I hate seeing my puller coming back with an IT while we are chatting and not even in formation.
2. Have fun. I really don't think keeping quiet or arguing is worth it. This IS a video game, it should be fun.
3. Make friends, ASK them for /befriend. Especially good players. I get tells all the time for parties and I send my fair share out. I am by no means this amazing player but I am safe and clean. Find others who you can count on.
4. Be safe and BE AWARE OF OTHER PARTIES! It is very impolite when I am pulling something with magic and some Thf comes running out with his boomerrang and steals my pull. It is also very unfair and rude to aggro high lvl mobs (i.e. wights or banshees) without warning and into areas you know are crowded. I've died so many times saving my party members from some *** who ran an UnDead train for a zone.
5. If you need help, for the love of the Goddess, type /help along with the shout. It frustrates me to NO END when I see someone screammmmming for help. Ill cure him, take aggro and he sits there and watches me/my party die, helpless because I cannot attack the mob. Also, if someone is trying to cure you, don't run in a circle. Zone or stand still. PIck one.
1. The "other" spots at low levels are OK depending on the party. At lvl7 I left Sandy with a 27War and went to Windy which became my second home. I didn't make any friends who were from Sandy until Qufim. The canyon is a GREAT hunting ground. With such a rough terrian, you can hunt anything you choose and aggro can be minimal. I found it best to hunt dhams. near the Pennisula Zone. The Maze as well is a GREAT spot for 2 reasons. A good pty can sit and take out MMs all day long. Also, since a few quests send you here, higher lvl help is available.
2. Safety is key for the critial 13-20 lvls and 21-28ish so unless you are VERY comfortable with your party, don't stray from the dunes or Qifum. Actually though, the Pennisula is a great place to level because you can pull ANYTHING you want without other parties AND be near a safe zone without harming others around you. Going into the Downs, again with a comfortable party is a GRREEEAT (Tony the Tiger haha) idea because you can pull right at a zone without lag. Plus most of your lower levels who would be in danger are usually on chocos anyway like me ;p
3. Rank can be misleading. I've seen some pretty high ranking players who cannot battle for their life. Obviously they were leaning on the other members in their part. A underleveled subjob is also misleading. I took my WHM to lvl7 because at the time, it was half of my RDM. It also enabled 2 spells I wanted to help my parties; Protectra and Poisona. RDMs can actually be great main healers IF they have practiced this skill. I did NOTHING in the dunes BUT main heal. WHMs were rarely ever found and I took on the role even as a Hume. (which suffer from lower MP than such as a Taru) People were amazing I could handle it so well. I've even pulled a lot of main healing in qifum. Although down time is a lot higher, if I can accompany myself with a fellow RDM (which i have many friends) healing AND enfeed are high and down time is low. Any RDM who will turn down the part of healing is not a true RDM IMO. The point of the job itself is to be versitile. You should fill whatever roll your party needs. You can always work that sword ability out soloing on off days. Mine is maxed as is my healing and enhancing magic.
I am glad to see you touched on EXP chains. Even at the Qufim level, people still want to pull ITs and VTs for big EXP. The other night I formed a party of the following: Nin, War, Mnk, RDM(me), PLD, and Drk. We pulled T and VT clips non stop, gathering chains like crazy. I was main healer and I was even pulling! Because we had a nice line up who knew skillchains and had good sub jobs, I was able to pull/heal/nuke AND jump in for some melee. You cannot beat that! When I was out of MP I would pull a T to keep or start a chain and then rest. My PLD or the war with whm subbed would throw some cures when needed and we'd just keep rollin.
Another item I cannot stress enough I learned from a friend who quit the game is Warriors and Provoke. Since the time you got the ability you should be using it every time it is available. THis allows you to control the aggro and hate throughout your leveling. You are useless if you didn't work your characters stats up to allow you to control hate almost entirely. Too many times I see a War who won't provoke a lot OR can't keep hate from a simple Cure spell and the WHM gets dropped. Luckily if you have me as a main healer, I sport a full Lizard setup with a sword to max and bone/amber rings/earrings and a good sheild. So I am never afraid to take a few hits, I can always hope my melee fighter with a whm sub will hit me with a quick cure/cure2.
Make parties with caution. Don't pull up "Find Member" and grab anyone with a job you think might work. Send a message to a player not looking but maybe in a near by area. Many times I've send tells to WHM just hanging in Jeuno with nothing to do. You need to make sure you have a balanced party for WHAT YOU ARE HUNTING! What's the point of having a RDM, WHM, WHM, BLm, War, Mnk if you are hunting Ts for chains? You can do that with just a WHM who has some support.
A few more things:
1. Don't pull without a macro or some form of attention. I hate seeing my puller coming back with an IT while we are chatting and not even in formation.
2. Have fun. I really don't think keeping quiet or arguing is worth it. This IS a video game, it should be fun.
3. Make friends, ASK them for /befriend. Especially good players. I get tells all the time for parties and I send my fair share out. I am by no means this amazing player but I am safe and clean. Find others who you can count on.
4. Be safe and BE AWARE OF OTHER PARTIES! It is very impolite when I am pulling something with magic and some Thf comes running out with his boomerrang and steals my pull. It is also very unfair and rude to aggro high lvl mobs (i.e. wights or banshees) without warning and into areas you know are crowded. I've died so many times saving my party members from some *** who ran an UnDead train for a zone.
5. If you need help, for the love of the Goddess, type /help along with the shout. It frustrates me to NO END when I see someone screammmmming for help. Ill cure him, take aggro and he sits there and watches me/my party die, helpless because I cannot attack the mob. Also, if someone is trying to cure you, don't run in a circle. Zone or stand still. PIck one.
Great post.
Thanks for mentioning alternative leveling spots, most people get confused when I tell them that there's better places than VD and so on. ><
Thanks for mentioning alternative leveling spots, most people get confused when I tell them that there's better places than VD and so on. ><
Quote:
1. Rank
Oh no I said rank was #1! (gasp) I'll have to break this to you: play experience is the most important factor in making a player become a good player. I can tell how experienced a player is by looking at their rank.
Oh no I said rank was #1! (gasp) I'll have to break this to you: play experience is the most important factor in making a player become a good player. I can tell how experienced a player is by looking at their rank.
Well, to step in on this, I consider myself an excellent player, but am only rank 2. I simply haven't been able to put together a PT to go kill the dragon, though I've spent several hours in Bastok trying. Just because someone's stuck at rank 2 doesn't make them unknowledgeable, just unlucky in a certain aspect.
Before 30 lv, i think blm is the key to kill fast. While the melee are doing 10-20 damage, they can do 70-100 damage in the jungles with a single nuke. But of course, hate control is more important.
One thing as a reminder, high rank does not equal to good play skill of the low lv job. Of course they get more game experience, but they may have little control over his current job.
eg. I know many 70+ whm, but when they play thf and rng...... So don't expect too much from them. They will only get better equipments. ^_^
For myself when I was leveling blm for sj, I found that it is very hard to control hate.
One thing as a reminder, high rank does not equal to good play skill of the low lv job. Of course they get more game experience, but they may have little control over his current job.
eg. I know many 70+ whm, but when they play thf and rng...... So don't expect too much from them. They will only get better equipments. ^_^
For myself when I was leveling blm for sj, I found that it is very hard to control hate.
I know a level 68 WHM and she's rank 2 o_O (did not change nationality, just doesnt like missions o_o)
This is really nice... bookmark and rate up.
Philemon on Valefor
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
Gjallarhorn 4/17/08
Daurdabla 5/9/11
Carnwenhan 5/4/12
Ryunohige 10/29/12
heh, I know exactly what you're talking about. I've been in good pt's and bad ones. Hell, when I was lvling war, I was in an all ls pt, and we finished it in one day, it was a late night, but we got through there with no problems. I now switched to a blm, and was lvling whm for sub in dunes. I get in a pt with a smn/whm.First in the start of the pt, he was asking how to call a GM because some guy was swearing at him cause he couldn't do his job. We go done to whitebone to fight pugs.Every round he called carby and did nothing else. I was asking him why if he has whm subbed can't he help heal or at least enfeeble. His response "It's not my job." I could clearly see why the other guy was pissed at him, but I'll sit here and deal with it. A couple of fights later, the pug was a nasty one and used a second screwdriver, and I was to low for a cure II, couldnt cure him fast enough he died, the smn/whm had 112 mp left. I told the leader I could not play with him, so it was either him or me, so the leader kicked the guy and replaced him with a rdm, we all lvled at least once after that, even twice for a few. There just those asshats out there that got pl though to advanced job and have no clue how to pt. I'll try to tell them whats wrong, but if they won't listen, I'm doen with them.
Hi, I couldn't get a chance to reply until now, but there are some good comments here.
Yes, you should be careful when going to an unfamiliar spot. This is why I gave advice on what to look for in party members. Use patience and discretion when forming a party away from "the spot". Try to get the very best players you can (especially a good tank), not just the first ones available. Admittedly I am not as picky on getting a whm as I am the other jobs, since they seem to be harder to come by.
If you are invited by someone else to an alternate spot (like me), do an /sea all Yarunk (or whoever) to see who the leader is. If he has high rank and/or a fully leveled subjob then that is a good sign. Also ask the jobs and levels of the other party members. This will tell you if the leader knows how to put a good party together.
Also, Buburimu Peninsula is not really so much of an alternate spot. You can level just fine there from 12-21, and there are always some people there at peak hours. The problem is that there are very few there compared to Valkurm, so you might have trouble finding people near your level, and whm are especially scarce. The last time I leveled here we had a Bard and Smn sharing healing duties. We had to pull toughs only, but we had almost no downtime. Xp here was good but not great because of no whm.
I am glad you mentioned hate control twice with the Blm. In fact I would disagree that Blm is key. Overnuking has a terrible effect on party performance, and hurts the party's xp gain a lot. If I am party leader I am usually hesitant on inviting a blm unless I am fighting worms (overnuke all you want on those), because I think about 2/3 of the Blm I party with at this level overnuke. Some of them don't even care, and don't even pause between nukes.
Why is this so bad? Say your party has a healer, a blm, a tank, and 3 other melees. When the Blm overnukes he becomes the tank and all the melees stop doing damage. He has just made 4 party members worthless. Even average melees are going to do about 50 damage in the same time as that 100 damage nuke, so your 100 damage nuke is taking away about 200 damage from the other 4 party members, and you are tanking so the whm is spending more mana.
I find that most of the great and awesome xp parties that I've been in (3000 xp/hour and up) do not have Blm's in them. I've been in quite a few 5000 xp/hour parties and only once in a non-worm party did we have a blm. Blm are not needed, because they are not any better at this level than most melee damage jobs who have good gear and use food. A well equipped melee at these levels can draw hate from even a good tank just with normal swings, and the most damage anyone should be doing is the max the tank can handle (a good tank is sooooo important).
The key to quick kills is not a Blm. It's good players.
I've left the matter of rank for last, because I have received the most comments about it. First let me clarify something. I put rank as important in picking other party members. This is because rank is a very general meter of how experienced a player is. If I see a rank 10 looking for group at my level, then I will always invite him. I want to learn from this pro. :) Now obviously looking at rank doesn't apply to yourself. You know whether or not you are a good player. ;)
Having said that let me say that the difference between rank 2 and rank 3 is small. I find a larger percentage of rank 3's are good players, but there are still plenty of bonehead rank 3's and there are also plenty of good rank 2's. Sometimes I find an exceptional rank 3 though (uses food, does job well, skillchains, seems to know exactly what to do in every situation, etc...), but I don't recall ever finding exceptional rank 2's. It's not that the rank 2's are bad players at all, but play experience is what they really need to turn them into great players.
Now I don't recall ever grouping with a bad rank 5+ at these levels. I do however encounter rank 2-3 individuals that don't think the rank 5's know what they are doing. Since I am usually puller, I get into arguments all the time about what to pull. Eventually I pull the really tough mob that the person (or party) wants, and then someone dies and people bail from the party. Now high rank people do make mistakes too, but I will always stick it out with them, because I really believe in partying with experienced players. I recall being in Qufim once where the leader was a Rank 5 whm, there was also myself (the puller), a rank 7 ninja tank (what a find in Qufim!), and 3 rank 2 players. The whm suggested we go to Delkfutt's Tower because we had no Blm. Well the tower was overcamped already, so we tried a different spot and pulled some bats. One the way back from 3rd pull a bat spawned near our camp. It linked and 1/2 the party died. The 3 rank 2's bailed out immediately. The remaining 3 of us (high ranking players) were like, "What gives?" We decided to go outside after that and quickly picked up 3 new players. Two hours and 10K xp later I walked out of Qufim with a smile on my face. There was no way I was going to leave a party with 2 other high rank players, especially when one is the tank (and a ninja). I knew it was a good party even though it started out badly. See this is why I wrote this guide, so the rest of you will know too. :)
Thank you to all who commented.
Quote:
Safety is key for the critial 13-20 lvls and 21-28ish so unless you are VERY comfortable with your party, don't stray from the dunes or Qifum.
Yes, you should be careful when going to an unfamiliar spot. This is why I gave advice on what to look for in party members. Use patience and discretion when forming a party away from "the spot". Try to get the very best players you can (especially a good tank), not just the first ones available. Admittedly I am not as picky on getting a whm as I am the other jobs, since they seem to be harder to come by.
If you are invited by someone else to an alternate spot (like me), do an /sea all Yarunk (or whoever) to see who the leader is. If he has high rank and/or a fully leveled subjob then that is a good sign. Also ask the jobs and levels of the other party members. This will tell you if the leader knows how to put a good party together.
Also, Buburimu Peninsula is not really so much of an alternate spot. You can level just fine there from 12-21, and there are always some people there at peak hours. The problem is that there are very few there compared to Valkurm, so you might have trouble finding people near your level, and whm are especially scarce. The last time I leveled here we had a Bard and Smn sharing healing duties. We had to pull toughs only, but we had almost no downtime. Xp here was good but not great because of no whm.
Quote:
Before 30 lv, i think blm is the key to kill fast. While the melee are doing 10-20 damage, they can do 70-100 damage in the jungles with a single nuke. But of course, hate control is more important.
...
For myself when I was leveling blm for sj, I found that it is very hard to control hate.
...
For myself when I was leveling blm for sj, I found that it is very hard to control hate.
I am glad you mentioned hate control twice with the Blm. In fact I would disagree that Blm is key. Overnuking has a terrible effect on party performance, and hurts the party's xp gain a lot. If I am party leader I am usually hesitant on inviting a blm unless I am fighting worms (overnuke all you want on those), because I think about 2/3 of the Blm I party with at this level overnuke. Some of them don't even care, and don't even pause between nukes.
Why is this so bad? Say your party has a healer, a blm, a tank, and 3 other melees. When the Blm overnukes he becomes the tank and all the melees stop doing damage. He has just made 4 party members worthless. Even average melees are going to do about 50 damage in the same time as that 100 damage nuke, so your 100 damage nuke is taking away about 200 damage from the other 4 party members, and you are tanking so the whm is spending more mana.
I find that most of the great and awesome xp parties that I've been in (3000 xp/hour and up) do not have Blm's in them. I've been in quite a few 5000 xp/hour parties and only once in a non-worm party did we have a blm. Blm are not needed, because they are not any better at this level than most melee damage jobs who have good gear and use food. A well equipped melee at these levels can draw hate from even a good tank just with normal swings, and the most damage anyone should be doing is the max the tank can handle (a good tank is sooooo important).
The key to quick kills is not a Blm. It's good players.
Quote:
Rank can be misleading. I've seen some pretty high ranking players who cannot battle for their life.
I've left the matter of rank for last, because I have received the most comments about it. First let me clarify something. I put rank as important in picking other party members. This is because rank is a very general meter of how experienced a player is. If I see a rank 10 looking for group at my level, then I will always invite him. I want to learn from this pro. :) Now obviously looking at rank doesn't apply to yourself. You know whether or not you are a good player. ;)
Having said that let me say that the difference between rank 2 and rank 3 is small. I find a larger percentage of rank 3's are good players, but there are still plenty of bonehead rank 3's and there are also plenty of good rank 2's. Sometimes I find an exceptional rank 3 though (uses food, does job well, skillchains, seems to know exactly what to do in every situation, etc...), but I don't recall ever finding exceptional rank 2's. It's not that the rank 2's are bad players at all, but play experience is what they really need to turn them into great players.
Now I don't recall ever grouping with a bad rank 5+ at these levels. I do however encounter rank 2-3 individuals that don't think the rank 5's know what they are doing. Since I am usually puller, I get into arguments all the time about what to pull. Eventually I pull the really tough mob that the person (or party) wants, and then someone dies and people bail from the party. Now high rank people do make mistakes too, but I will always stick it out with them, because I really believe in partying with experienced players. I recall being in Qufim once where the leader was a Rank 5 whm, there was also myself (the puller), a rank 7 ninja tank (what a find in Qufim!), and 3 rank 2 players. The whm suggested we go to Delkfutt's Tower because we had no Blm. Well the tower was overcamped already, so we tried a different spot and pulled some bats. One the way back from 3rd pull a bat spawned near our camp. It linked and 1/2 the party died. The 3 rank 2's bailed out immediately. The remaining 3 of us (high ranking players) were like, "What gives?" We decided to go outside after that and quickly picked up 3 new players. Two hours and 10K xp later I walked out of Qufim with a smile on my face. There was no way I was going to leave a party with 2 other high rank players, especially when one is the tank (and a ninja). I knew it was a good party even though it started out badly. See this is why I wrote this guide, so the rest of you will know too. :)
Thank you to all who commented.
Definatly something everyone at lower levels should read. I'm glad I spent the time reading this. Rate up to all who posted good advice ^_^
29 posts
If you read on though, he implies that a majority of the time, people with higher ranks have played and experienced tougher circumstances. He didn't say always. And it is true backwards to.
Thank you for posting this excellent guide. Have you considered submitting it to Allakhazam as a guide?
I really hope new players take what you've said to heart, because the world of Vana'diel will be much better off. That, and we'll have fewer miserable and upset people hanging around The Spot screaming "PICK ME! PICK ME!!!!!" and more people actually playing the game. So once again, thanks!
I really hope new players take what you've said to heart, because the world of Vana'diel will be much better off. That, and we'll have fewer miserable and upset people hanging around The Spot screaming "PICK ME! PICK ME!!!!!" and more people actually playing the game. So once again, thanks!
28 posts
thank God a place outside of qufim that I can level in. I was starting to have nightmares about how it would be like the dunes and i would have to start waiting 16 hours for an invite period let alone one from a decent party. My ls is mostly in bastok so I can just go to the tunnel now.
#17REDACTED,
Posted: Aug 16 2008 at 8:48 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Is the maze of shakrami really a good place to level up for 11-15's? I used to play FFXI, (and am considering going back if Reactivating an account is possible, don't wanna lvl all over again :[) and I remember going through the maze of shakrami for one of the early Windurst missions with some friends, we were all 14-15ish, and, well, put simply, we got raped :[
Quote:
Is the maze of shakrami really a good place to level up for 11-15's? I used to play FFXI, (and am considering going back if Reactivating an account is possible, don't wanna lvl all over again :[) and I remember going through the maze of shakrami for one of the early Windurst missions with some friends, we were all 14-15ish, and, well, put simply, we got raped :[
Necro much?
The maze is still a good EXP spot at that level range as long as you stick to killing the worms and try to avoid aggro from Goblins.
Okay, I want my 5 minutes back from reading this thread. I need to remember to check the year threads are posted before I read them.
It's all still true though. I have been levelling drk recently. I started at 17 and I'm 39 now. I met all the following bad problems with low level parties:
1) People will whine on if the xp per mob is significantly less than 200 and suggest moving to the next camp, even though that means xp per hour going way down.
2) Lots of melee will not use any food. Not even meat jerky.
3) People going afk for 15 min+ to "eat dinner", "run an errand" etc.
1) People will whine on if the xp per mob is significantly less than 200 and suggest moving to the next camp, even though that means xp per hour going way down.
2) Lots of melee will not use any food. Not even meat jerky.
3) People going afk for 15 min+ to "eat dinner", "run an errand" etc.
Yarunk wrote:
V. Which party members determine how much xp I get?
...
Notice I mentioned tank a lot in that last part. I said before that there are couple of jobs that have a larger impact on the xp you get. The first one is tank. The quality of your tank can mean the difference between 5K xp/hour and negative xp/hour. This is because a good tank needs to do several things. 1) Keep the mob on him. 2) Stay in place so the thief can sneak attack. 3) Take as little damage as possible. A bad tank will mess up on at least one of these things. A good tank will be exceptional at all three. Doing #1 and #2 makes the mob die quicker and doing #3 saves mp for the Whm.
The other job that has a really big impact on xp is puller. A puller can be too quick or too slow. He can pull mobs that are too weak or too strong. He can pull a train of mobs if not careful.
Wonderful post! Many people try to "cover the basics", but just keep it too basic! This one goes into what I feel to be the right amount of depth.
The one thing I really feel like I have to step in on, however, is the section quoted above. While the tank may be one of the most important roles to determine xp/hour, I would have to say that support jobs tie puller.
One of the major killers of xp/hour is downtime, and nothing really can prevent downtime as well as having good support jobs. They can also make killing go much faster. In particular, BRD and RDM do wonderfully at this. Bard can give regens right from the start of partying, as well as give minor refreshes many levels before Red Mage. Add that to increasing accuracy, decreases mob resistances, and you have a well-oiled killing machine! Combine that with true Red Mage refreshes, and the massive debuffing skills they also possess, and mobs can go down almost twice as fast with almost no resting.
From my probably thousands of hours of experience, xp/hour can be doubled with the right support jobs (I actually thought Bard was going to be what you were alluding to earlier in the post about who impacts xp lol).
Also, I do agree with some of the above posters that Rank cannot be an acid test on a player's ability. This was much, much more true in the first couple of years of the game, but there has been so much time for even the most mediocre (or even awful) of players to have their hands held through the missions by their friends or linkshells that it just can't be a sure promise of the player's ability. Granted, if you are just talking chances of getting a good player, your chances are higher with a Rank 6 player in Qufim than a Rank 1 player, but the way it was laid out, it almost sounded guaranteed.
as leveling multiple jobs, i can say race does matter in the lower levels of the dunes. tarutaru have quite a bit of mp, but that mnd deficiency seriously hurts their cure 2 power, and later cure 3. it takes them a couple levels to get the full powered cures, whereas a race like elvaan can nearly cap out as soon as they get it.
later on it doesnt matter, however this puts a serious dent in their mp usage as they have to rest longer, which can slow down chains. however you'll only see this problem if you have a slow party, which even at the worst rate (1-2k an hour) is still a level an hour.
getting good gear early on really helps a ton, as i've personally seen 10k/hour parties in qufim island, when just 1 DD was slaughtering everything. it was crazy i've never seen a party go so damn fast that low
later on it doesnt matter, however this puts a serious dent in their mp usage as they have to rest longer, which can slow down chains. however you'll only see this problem if you have a slow party, which even at the worst rate (1-2k an hour) is still a level an hour.
getting good gear early on really helps a ton, as i've personally seen 10k/hour parties in qufim island, when just 1 DD was slaughtering everything. it was crazy i've never seen a party go so damn fast that low
Dehrian wrote:
Quote:
1. Rank
Oh no I said rank was #1! (gasp) I'll have to break this to you: play experience is the most important factor in making a player become a good player. I can tell how experienced a player is by looking at their rank.
Oh no I said rank was #1! (gasp) I'll have to break this to you: play experience is the most important factor in making a player become a good player. I can tell how experienced a player is by looking at their rank.
Well, to step in on this, I consider myself an excellent player, but am only rank 2. I simply haven't been able to put together a PT to go kill the dragon, though I've spent several hours in Bastok trying. Just because someone's stuck at rank 2 doesn't make them unknowledgeable, just unlucky in a certain aspect.
That's really odd. What kind of linkshell do you have? Every linkshell I've ever been in jumps at the chance to go kill the dragon. It's easy, it's fun, and a competent four-man party can do it without having to try too hard to look for level 25 equipment. If you're on Remora or Asura I'll help you myself.
Edit: Well, given that that was four years ago, I'm going to assume that you've gotten Rank 3 by now.
Edited, Aug 17th 2008 6:49am by ChrisMattern
Alkezo wrote:
Okay, I want my 5 minutes back from reading this thread. I need to remember to check the year threads are posted before I read them.
Yeah, I didn't notice it was necro until you pointed it out myself. Well, that explains the post that complains about getting killed by trains to zones.
I'm not too angry about it, though, because the fact of the matter is that everything he says is still relevant, and, sadly, still too often ignored.
ChrisMattern wrote:
Dehrian wrote:
Quote:
1. Rank
Oh no I said rank was #1! (gasp) I'll have to break this to you: play experience is the most important factor in making a player become a good player. I can tell how experienced a player is by looking at their rank.
Oh no I said rank was #1! (gasp) I'll have to break this to you: play experience is the most important factor in making a player become a good player. I can tell how experienced a player is by looking at their rank.
Well, to step in on this, I consider myself an excellent player, but am only rank 2. I simply haven't been able to put together a PT to go kill the dragon, though I've spent several hours in Bastok trying. Just because someone's stuck at rank 2 doesn't make them unknowledgeable, just unlucky in a certain aspect.
That's really odd. What kind of linkshell do you have? Every linkshell I've ever been in jumps at the chance to go kill the dragon. It's easy, it's fun, and a competent four-man party can do it without having to try too hard to look for level 25 equipment. If you're on Remora or Asura I'll help you myself.
You didn't realise that the post you were quoting and replying to was from over 4 years ago, did you?
Quote:
as leveling multiple jobs, i can say race does matter in the lower levels of the dunes. tarutaru have quite a bit of mp, but that mnd deficiency seriously hurts their cure 2 power, and later cure 3. it takes them a couple levels to get the full powered cures, whereas a race like elvaan can nearly cap out as soon as they get it.
later on it doesnt matter, however this puts a serious dent in their mp usage as they have to rest longer, which can slow down chains. however you'll only see this problem if you have a slow party, which even at the worst rate (1-2k an hour) is still a level an hour.
later on it doesnt matter, however this puts a serious dent in their mp usage as they have to rest longer, which can slow down chains. however you'll only see this problem if you have a slow party, which even at the worst rate (1-2k an hour) is still a level an hour.
Race only matters when the player doesn't understand the strength's and weaknesses of their race. The players that do understand, will gear appropriately to rectify such differences.
Edit:
Also, Rank, when this guide was written (2k4, for those who missed it) was a great way of judging a person's game experience.... now, its just another number.
Edited, Aug 17th 2008 4:50am by taliph
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