What's the easiest job for a bad player to hide in?Follow

Monk.

Monk, since for a while they don't have to pay attention much to hate or MP. Around the mid-teens in the Dunes you can start to tell the difference between a good one and a bad one, though, especially when fighting Goblins.

Beat me to it.

I was going to say that too.

I agree on Monk being a easy job, but I guess there are as many Thieves than Monks, don't you think?

You can tell a bad thief very quickly after 15.

Also maybe White Mage; Lord knows I've seen some WHMs do some dumb things, yet the party will put up with them.

A certain WHM on Midgardsormr who shall not be named is famous within the end-game members of my linkshell for being able to blow all her MP before the party can even get to EXP Chain #1.

Edited, Wed May 19 15:36:21 2004 by ChairmanCT

as a rdm, i have to cast all the enfeebles at the beginning of the battle, as well as watch everyone's MP to see if refresh has worn out ot not. Also, i have to watch the log to recast any enfeebs that have worn off, watch the whm and cure/regen the pt members that he/she hasn't gotten yet, dispel the mob in case in does a special action (bubble armor crap thing) and time magic bursts. when i'm down to about 100 MP, i usually convert, a couple of Cure III's, and start the fun all over again.

thf isnt an easy job later on, there is a lot more behind it, as for the easiest job, it would be to be either Monk. There really isnt anything behind that job other than constant dmg, and that comes from just using auto attack.

Skillchain, skillchain, skillchain. MNKs can accumulate TP pretty quickly, and oftentimes good MNKs (in the absense of samurai) will be the ones planning skillchains.

later on, a MNK who knows what he/she is doing will start most fights w/ a 150-200+ chi blast.

Monk is my vote for all the same stated reasons. My vote for easiest to HIDE a bad player.

Thief is not the winner here, SAnTA takes organization.

WHM, there may be a lot of bad ones, but its not hidden.

RDM WHM SMN here, i plan all the skill chains in my groups. many melee i have partied with dont initiate creating a skill chain, and even the ones that do dont pay attention to the Magic Burst. I try hard to blend what people want to use (RLB, Raging Fists etc) with what will give most MB damage (Stone2 vs Fire etc) combined with element for that day (earths day) combined with what the mob is weak to (light etc).

Monk. I saw a lvl 9 mnk taru fighting Pygamois in Tahrongi and I was a lvl 12 thf at the time and they were coming up as Decent Challenge to me and she was winning. :(

Well, I'm just starting my partying levels as a RNG and I don't think anyone would notice if I screwed around as long as I did a good job pulling. I miss so much I might as well not be doing anything some fights. My last party ended badly (lots of death) because our monk had to use his 2 hour and I couldn't get a provoke off in time so he died. WHAT is the deal with "Unable to use job ability", I never had that as a warrior. Stupid bow delay. And the fights I'm not missing, I'm getting all the hate. It seems that as long as the rest of the party is good and the pulling is good, a RNG can be weak in every other way.

Gotta make it a clean sweep and agree...Monk.

lol he most likely bought it off E-bay d00d

Being a Monk, and I would say a pretty good one at that (IMHO), I would begrudginly agree that MNK is the easiest job to hide a bad player behind. All a MNK truly must do is stand there and beat the living crap out of things. I would imagine that there are a number of MNKs that do just that.

However, a good MNK has a lot more to do than just that. Skill Chains have already been mentioned, but I don't think they should be the sole responsibility of the MNK by any stretch. Very often, MNKs must be secondary tanks. Sometimes we actually have to be primary tanks, though this shouldn't be the case. This requires all of the attention and timing of the other tank jobs. In addition, even when we're not tanking, we have to pay attention to the 'voke status of the the true tanks in case there is a situation in which primary and secondary tanks have exhausted provoke and the mob goes after the mages. Then there's shoulder tackle. I've almost reached the point that if there's a goblin involved, I'll pull myself out of any skill chains (with notice, of course) so that I can preempt any Bomb Tosses.

I'm a lvl 30 MNK right now and the best of my job is ahead of me, but I've decided to stop leveling for a while so that I can farm for the Ochioto's Kotte as well as bring WAR, TFH, NIN (for THF) and SAM up to the necessary levels for them to be their best support for my monk. Then there's the rank missions and RSE to do. But those are just gravy.

So, while it is very easy to hide bad players behind MNK, it's also pretty easy to spot the good ones, most just fall somewhere in between.

I'd probably add in second and third place (in no particular order), Dragoon and Summoner. I think it would be very easy to hide bad players behind these two, mostly because unless you've played them, most people don't understand their jobs all that much. Like Monk, they have the appearance of "sick the Wyvern/avatar on the mob and wait" type of jobs. I'm sure there must be more to them that that, but not having played either yet, I wouldn't knwo what else there is.

And everyone that said that THF is easy to spot bad player in is dead on. A good thief can do massive damage and manipulate hate. A bad thief will often end up doing very little damage and/or dying a lot. I'd also like to mention that of the jobs that I've partied in, PAL seems to have more people that don't understand the intracacies of the job. I've seen more Pallies unable to maintain hate and end parties with full MP than I can count. But when you've got a good Paladin, whoooaaaaaa Nelly! :)

Siren be representing, Dao.

Any, bad players have the easiest time hiding in Monk. You may or may not be able to tell based on skills before level 18 though, but once they have a subjob it's a lot easier to tell.

RNG. You sit back and do ranged attacks, but because of the hate issue, you (usually) can't fire nonstop.

I actually got into a powerlevelling PT in Valkurm by accident...to make a long story short, I have no respect for powerlevellers, and I could go for 10-20 minutes firing only a few ranged attacks without being noticed. Heck, sometimes I never even drew my sword.

:( @ the 20+ votes for Monk.

Just as another poll: Have a lot of you lost faith in Monks because of the idiots you get in Valkurm and Qufim? I'm just wondering, because it took a lot of getting some actual fame with people to get into parties at Garlaige. I can sit there using Mithkabobs, Boosting before every fight, using Berserk if my damage is dropping, using Focus on the high evasion mobs, playing SAnTA dummy, and so on.

Honestly, if you ever need a PERFECT SAnTA dummy, get a MNK. At level 35, I have 849 health and 50 VIT. I can voke the mob, hold the hate with Boosts, take whatever damage needed, then let the tank get the hate back and Chakra the damage off. :/

EDIT:

Oh, and what about DRKs? I've seen a LOT of horrible DRKs, but people love them because they hit for around 100 damage at level 15. From 10-29, DRKs don't have to do ****. Maybe they cast Bio once in a while to knock the mob, but all they have to do is keep their scythe up to date and everyone loves them. I've started a DRK, but I've spent times just levelling my magic skills trying to cap them. I obviously never will cap Dark magic, but I can at least try to get my Drains to do more than 10 health.

Edited, Wed May 19 17:48:56 2004 by Agrorthal

Everyone North American gamer seems to hate monks, but when i played my monk from 20-30 i had to watch my agro, or i would accidentally pull the monster from the warrior or paladin. It might be less of a problem now with subtle blow, but you could put any fighting class into the 3rd fighter slot and they can pretty much just hack away and not do anything else.

Monk, I have to agree.

On Drk, it's easy to see a bad player. One who dosen't get/use Drain/Aspir or the Absorb spells, is a bad player. One who uses lvl 10 equipment, pops Souleater + Last Resort + Berserk + WS and dies, then complains about not getting hate off him... is a bad player.

What about BST?
They don't usually PT, so no one really notices their mistakes. If they are in a PT, their role is really uncertain, so you can't tell them they did something really wrong. Like you can't tell them that they are horrible tanks/healers/dmgdealers/etc.

I'm not saying that BST doesnt take skill...I'm just saying that if one doesnt have skill, they still won't be noticed.

I was in a party recently where if I (a whm) had been incompetent, it might not have been very obvious. The tank was a paladin and mostly did his own healing, so often there wasn't much for me to do.

... Well, until the stonegas started coming out. *Then* it would have been *very* obvious if I hadn't been paying attention. ^_^;

From my admittedly limited experience, monk makes sense, not so much because of anything in particular about monks as because of their role as a damage dealer. If the tank screws up, you'll find out pretty quickly. If the whm screws up, probably the same. But with a primarily damage dealing class, it's hard to tell because the main indicator of something wrong - their damage output - is hard to judge. Maybe the same thing could apply to blms, who are also mainly damage dealers, just using spells instead of weapons. Yeah, if they overnuke, you'll know, but if they're just not doing as much damage as they could, how do you tell? It can be hard enough just keeping track of how well *I'm* doing... If I spent enough time paying attention to other people to really judge their output, I probably wouldn't be paying enough attention to doing *my* job.

Thief... well, enough people have already talked about it already. The difference the thief abilities make is too major to miss.

~sleepygirl

*Kotomi uses Shockwave Pulsar.
*9999* *9999* *9999* *9999*

Being a Monk myself, it's very easy for me to spot a bad one in a PT. I also think that most people would say that Monk is the easiest to had bad players behind because a lot of people haven't partied with good Monks. Monks are rare enough post 60 when the real fights begin so what would people base their opinions of?

Below LV30 it's so easy for a bad player to play a Paladin or Warrior. As long as they keep their armor updated and spam provoke, you won't know if they will really be any good post 40. There is, however, a good way to spot the good Warrior tanks. Just see who manages to Berserk for skillchains and turn it off afterwards. Bad Paladins can probably make thir way to the 50's without people realizing their ineptitude because it is very easy for them to get into parties. Once the bad player PT's with a Ranger at 55 (Sidewinder), you'll know if he's really any good. I know of a very bad Paladin that got LV75. He's blacklisted by a lot of people as he is known to bail from PT's that get in trouble, refuse to provoke after dying accidentally once and be rude overall.

Bad players can also play WHM well once they get enough smarts to know that too many cures kill them. To spot the good ones, you look for those that know when to use Erase, who to Haste, who never let a status disability last for more than 5 seconds and those that participate in magic bursts.

Bad BLM are hard to spot once they get the timing of MB's down. The good ones know when to use Stun and Sleep.

Once DRG get 49 and Penta Thrust, it's hard to determine if they are any good. Once they get to the 60's it becomes easy to identify the good from the bad by their accuracy, how they take care of their wyvern, when they use their jump abilities and how they participate in hate control.

RDM are also easy to get by with since they are so in demand. Most people are happy with those that cast enfeebling spells, refresh, and BLM spells. Decent RDM know when to use convert, the good ones know how to use it in battle without getting killed. What will really make a good RDM stand out is when the PT gets in trouble. If the RDM knows how to use Stoneskin, Phalanx in tight spots, that RDM is good.

Prior to LV60, bad DRK can get by easily. Post 60 you'll know the good ones by their use of ABS spells and Stun, their aptitude with Thief SJ, their skill with Great Swords and their alternate set of defensive armor.

Bad players can play Samurai easily before LV30 since most people don't know that Samurai at that time ought to be part-archers for TP gain and accuracy. The good ones pre 30 will be equipped for tanking. The good ones post 30 will decide all the skillchains and be able to do at least 2 skillchains a fight against IT monsters. At the 40's up, you'll be able to identify good Samurai even better by their ability to alternate between accuracy/attack equipment and defense equipment.

BST is probably the easiest job for a bad player to hide in since there isn't any other person to see them foul up. However, it's almost guaranteed that only the good BSTs get past the 50's.

Bad THF can get by once they know how to macro Sneak Attack + Trick Attack. It's not very hard. You will be able to spot the good ones at how quickly they set up the initial fuidama and how they will be able to do another fuidama 10 seconds after that one. Incidentally, you can spot any bad sub-tank/attacker job easily when they are PT'd with Thieves because they do not line up properly and they don't switch to defensive armor when they get monster attention.

I think the jobs where bad and good players can be immediately noticed are Ninja by their aptitude at hate control, utsusemi, debuffs; Ranger by their skill at soloing worm-types; Bard and Summoner at how and when they uses their songs and summons.

Edited, Wed May 19 21:49:21 2004 by Resistance

Monk is by far the easiest job to hide behind. I agree with anyone who says thf as well, but only pre-lvl 30. After that it takes a great deal of alertness to properly fix hate, and position himself.