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What's the easiest job for a bad player to hide in?Follow

#1 May 19 2004 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Last night I was waiting in a group to find a healer when some higher levels of our LS agreed to drop by and heal us as we fought. Nice of them :)

Unfortunately, our warrior was terribly inexperienced, but with 4 other melees there (13-15) and two mid 20s healers standing by (RDM and WHM) we did just fine on our first target. But then our warrior (who was NOT the puller) voked a thread leech, and not one but two leeches come bounding our way. Our healers immediately jump on one of them leaving the 5 of us (3 thieves, monk, warrior) to take the other. Only 3 of us barely survived, and one of the deaths was the mid-level WHM who came only to help us out. Truly I had no idea one bad move by a single player could be so destructive.

It got me to thinking.. is there a job where a bad player could hide without ever really being noticed? I suppose anyone who pulls badly can kill everyone, but pulling aside, what's the most benign job a bad player could be?
#2 May 19 2004 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Monk.
#3 May 19 2004 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
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MNK

for the most part, all you do is just hit attack and sit back and watch. whether or not you use your abilities doesn't really matter. no one will really notice. throw out a WS here and there.

it's not until later levels when you can spot a bad one.
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#4 May 19 2004 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Monk, since for a while they don't have to pay attention much to hate or MP. Around the mid-teens in the Dunes you can start to tell the difference between a good one and a bad one, though, especially when fighting Goblins.
#5 May 19 2004 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I dont know about hiding, but as a Ranger I have a bad habbit of not noticing what Red Mages are doing. Im so busy paying attention to skill chains, hate, barrage timing, food, and my next pull I have no clue what they do, lol. I love having a Red Mage around to speed up exp. but I truthfully have no understanding for their job. I have a hard enough time doing my own part :)

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#6 May 19 2004 at 2:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Alienone the Charming wrote:
Monk.


Beat me to it.

I was going to say that too.
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#7 May 19 2004 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Alienone the Charming wrote:
Monk.
Yup... it sure is Monk, anyone can 'auto-attack' and sit there and pound on a mob. That's one of the main reason I start talking Skill Chains as soon as I get in a party. I fancy myself a decent Monk and I want to let the people around me know that I have a good understanding of how things are going to work right off the bat, plus I have a strong grasp on Skill Chains. Any Monk can deal damage, but in my opinion that's not enough, in the absence of a good SAM I honestly feel it's part of my job to make sure the Skill Chains we're doing are going smoothly and doing the max damage possible.
#8 May 19 2004 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree on Monk being a easy job, but I guess there are as many Thieves than Monks, don't you think?
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#9 May 19 2004 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent
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monk or theif
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#10 May 19 2004 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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You can tell a bad thief very quickly after 15.
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#11 May 19 2004 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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you would be suprised how well they can hide there smarts
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#12 May 19 2004 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Also maybe White Mage; Lord knows I've seen some WHMs do some dumb things, yet the party will put up with them.

A certain WHM on Midgardsormr who shall not be named is famous within the end-game members of my linkshell for being able to blow all her MP before the party can even get to EXP Chain #1.

Edited, Wed May 19 15:36:21 2004 by ChairmanCT
#13 May 19 2004 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
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i meant lvl 72 theif who was askin how to use job abilites and i just sat there wondering how he got lvl 72 and still be so idiotic. then i sat in awe as he died to a not worthwhile monster.
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#14 May 19 2004 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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as a rdm, i have to cast all the enfeebles at the beginning of the battle, as well as watch everyone's MP to see if refresh has worn out ot not. Also, i have to watch the log to recast any enfeebs that have worn off, watch the whm and cure/regen the pt members that he/she hasn't gotten yet, dispel the mob in case in does a special action (bubble armor crap thing) and time magic bursts. when i'm down to about 100 MP, i usually convert, a couple of Cure III's, and start the fun all over again.
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#15 May 19 2004 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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I think the only reason people are able to hide out as a thief is that no one really knows the type of damage a thief can do.

If you're a bad thief and you party with someone that plays a thief well... they'll probably tell you how awful you are.
#16 May 19 2004 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
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thf isnt an easy job later on, there is a lot more behind it, as for the easiest job, it would be to be either Monk. There really isnt anything behind that job other than constant dmg, and that comes from just using auto attack.
#17 May 19 2004 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd say BDR is pretty easy to hide lack of talent. I myself play one, and there's been a few times while levelling a different job that I've seen some *horrible* BRDs in parties. And yet time and again, people in the party always fall all over themselves saying how great the BRD is.
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#18 May 19 2004 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
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TellerNeptune wrote:
There really isnt anything behind that job other than constant dmg, and that comes from just using auto attack.

Skillchain, skillchain, skillchain. MNKs can accumulate TP pretty quickly, and oftentimes good MNKs (in the absense of samurai) will be the ones planning skillchains.
#19 May 19 2004 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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I disagree that a THF is an easy job for a bad player to hide behind. From the moment a THF gets Sneak Attack, you can monitor them to see if they're doing a decent amount of damage with Sneak Attack, whether or not they're even aware of the way Sneak Attack works, and, of course, whether or not they're even USING Sneak Attack. Trust me, I have seen all three of the above, and I guess you could say that they go in order from least bothersome to most bothersome. But, if I do spot any of the above happening, I usually alert the THF about it and tell him how it works, it usually helps, but there's always the occasional n00b who refuses to listen, and that kind of a person gets promptly booted from the PT.

But, from the beginning jobs, MNK is the easiest to hide in. In the dunes, there's usually not much for a MNK to do to completely screw up everything. This is one of the reasons I absolutely hate leveling my sub, which is MNK. There's just not much to do besides sit back and let the auto-attack do the work for you. I enjoy playing a bigger role in the PT, not sitting back and tapping my WS macro every once in awhile.

Edited, Wed May 19 15:42:51 2004 by DodoBird
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#20 May 19 2004 at 2:41 PM Rating: Decent
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later on, a MNK who knows what he/she is doing will start most fights w/ a 150-200+ chi blast.
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#21 May 19 2004 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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Thief is the thinking man's melee job. You actually have to plan things out, align precisely, have excellent timing, etc. A thief has so many ways to be awesome, and a bad thief is by far the easiest melee to spot in a group.
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#22 May 19 2004 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Monk is my vote for all the same stated reasons. My vote for easiest to HIDE a bad player.

Thief is not the winner here, SAnTA takes organization.

WHM, there may be a lot of bad ones, but its not hidden.

RDM WHM SMN here, i plan all the skill chains in my groups. many melee i have partied with dont initiate creating a skill chain, and even the ones that do dont pay attention to the Magic Burst. I try hard to blend what people want to use (RLB, Raging Fists etc) with what will give most MB damage (Stone2 vs Fire etc) combined with element for that day (earths day) combined with what the mob is weak to (light etc).

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#23 May 19 2004 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Monk for sure,
#24 May 19 2004 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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Monk. I saw a lvl 9 mnk taru fighting Pygamois in Tahrongi and I was a lvl 12 thf at the time and they were coming up as Decent Challenge to me and she was winning. :(
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#25 May 19 2004 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, there are different types of "bad", really.

Inept: doesn't know how his/her job works, doesn't know what other people are doing -- WARs that can't provoke, THFs that stand around and never use Trick Attack, RDMs that pick their nose until people tell them what to do.

Unskilled: has a handle on what he/she's supposed to do, but doesn't have the finesse down -- BLMs that overnuke, WHMs that overcure, DRKs that overdamage

Inattentive: probably knows what he/she's doing, but is otherwise indisposed -- tanks that provoke sporadically, THFs that only use Trick Attack once in a while, PLDs that can't time Shield Bash, any melee that takes a few rounds to actually engage and walk over to the mob

Repellant: probably knows what he/she's doing, but can't work with the party for other reasons -- anyone that can't take a criticism or advice, "primadonnas"
#26 May 19 2004 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, I'm just starting my partying levels as a RNG and I don't think anyone would notice if I screwed around as long as I did a good job pulling. I miss so much I might as well not be doing anything some fights. My last party ended badly (lots of death) because our monk had to use his 2 hour and I couldn't get a provoke off in time so he died. WHAT is the deal with "Unable to use job ability", I never had that as a warrior. Stupid bow delay. And the fights I'm not missing, I'm getting all the hate. It seems that as long as the rest of the party is good and the pulling is good, a RNG can be weak in every other way.
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#27 May 19 2004 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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vonclow wrote:
monk or theif

Monk

I stick with the others here thieves are hardly easy post 15 and 30... It's not always easy lining up those sneaks and tricks that we all love so well...
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#28 May 19 2004 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Gotta make it a clean sweep and agree...Monk.
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#29 May 19 2004 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I've seen quite a few BLMs around the level 20 range who overnuke to their heart's content and have to be saved by me Provoking the monster off of them (As a THF/WAR). They don't give the tanks any time to build hate before they start firing off their best spells.

With an observant party they're not going to skate by for long, but at these levels it seems the only person who notices is the one who gets pounded until the tank's Voke timer runs out (Me).
#30 May 19 2004 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
i meant lvl 72 theif who was askin how to use job abilites and i just sat there wondering how he got lvl 72 and still be so idiotic. then i sat in awe as he died to a not worthwhile monster.


lol he most likely bought it off E-bay d00d
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#31 May 19 2004 at 3:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Monk they hit the engage and put a paper weight on the up arrow button on their keyboard. I could probably train my sugar glider to be a monk.
Thf is a very skillful class you have to watch hate and do your sa's and ta's with good timing. It's not super hard but it does require skill.
Red Mages are probably the hardest job of all. The reason being even a good red mage won't get noticed because our job is to change the subtleties of battle in the parties favor. If your party stays up and fighting the RDM is doing his/her job. A little bit of everything does a whole lot for a party never forget that. On the flipside sometimes as a red mage you're the band aid holding a dam from flooding. You have to nuke if magic attack is weak for your party. many many times due to the lack of interest in WHM class you have to act like a healer. In a balanced party you will help with skillchains and magic bursts. On top of all that we also make the best pullers because we could turn a mob into mush before it ever reaches the party (ex: pull a goblin leecher with silence if you dont believe me)
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#32 May 19 2004 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Being a Monk, and I would say a pretty good one at that (IMHO), I would begrudginly agree that MNK is the easiest job to hide a bad player behind. All a MNK truly must do is stand there and beat the living crap out of things. I would imagine that there are a number of MNKs that do just that.

However, a good MNK has a lot more to do than just that. Skill Chains have already been mentioned, but I don't think they should be the sole responsibility of the MNK by any stretch. Very often, MNKs must be secondary tanks. Sometimes we actually have to be primary tanks, though this shouldn't be the case. This requires all of the attention and timing of the other tank jobs. In addition, even when we're not tanking, we have to pay attention to the 'voke status of the the true tanks in case there is a situation in which primary and secondary tanks have exhausted provoke and the mob goes after the mages. Then there's shoulder tackle. I've almost reached the point that if there's a goblin involved, I'll pull myself out of any skill chains (with notice, of course) so that I can preempt any Bomb Tosses.

I'm a lvl 30 MNK right now and the best of my job is ahead of me, but I've decided to stop leveling for a while so that I can farm for the Ochioto's Kotte as well as bring WAR, TFH, NIN (for THF) and SAM up to the necessary levels for them to be their best support for my monk. Then there's the rank missions and RSE to do. But those are just gravy.

So, while it is very easy to hide bad players behind MNK, it's also pretty easy to spot the good ones, most just fall somewhere in between.

I'd probably add in second and third place (in no particular order), Dragoon and Summoner. I think it would be very easy to hide bad players behind these two, mostly because unless you've played them, most people don't understand their jobs all that much. Like Monk, they have the appearance of "sick the Wyvern/avatar on the mob and wait" type of jobs. I'm sure there must be more to them that that, but not having played either yet, I wouldn't knwo what else there is.

And everyone that said that THF is easy to spot bad player in is dead on. A good thief can do massive damage and manipulate hate. A bad thief will often end up doing very little damage and/or dying a lot. I'd also like to mention that of the jobs that I've partied in, PAL seems to have more people that don't understand the intracacies of the job. I've seen more Pallies unable to maintain hate and end parties with full MP than I can count. But when you've got a good Paladin, whoooaaaaaa Nelly! :)
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#33 May 19 2004 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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What, doesn't Dark Knight get a vote? There are soooo many bad ones, and few people that know about what a good one should be doing. How many of them do you know that use their absorb-stat spells, for example? How many that don't even use spells? And this is seldom noticed in my experience, until a good one comes along.

Bards also require a lot of skill, and most people don't realize that 25+ when you have mages and melees in a party, the Bard probably shouldn't have time to melee at all, yet many do. Few switch intruments or level their singing. As such it is pretty easy for bad ones to exist.

As for Monks, well, the problem is bad ones are all too apparent, as best I can tell. Why else would Monks be viewed as poor damage dealers? The bad ones have left thier mark.

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#34 May 19 2004 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Siren be representing, Dao.

Any, bad players have the easiest time hiding in Monk. You may or may not be able to tell based on skills before level 18 though, but once they have a subjob it's a lot easier to tell.
#35 May 19 2004 at 4:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Thief!? How cana thief be an easy job. Perhaps under level 15 because all they have to do is hit. But at 15 you can't just stand there and hit, you have to arrange yourself anf inform the party members how to stand. Need to use macros to combine SA with a WS. And then when lvl 30 comes.. haha to say there easy is stupid. We are more complx than most jobs at 30.

I'd say a dragoon is relativley easyish from what i experienced up to lvl 20. But a thief... HAH!

You also need to take account of a sub-job. A thief/rng or nin adds even more complexness(is that a word?) on to the job.

Basically a thief is the only job you don't stand still, You can't eat your dinner while watching the screen, you need to be hands on at all times. Usually the mob is running around like a pinball so a thief is constantly waiting for the oppurtunity to SATA nevermind plus a ws!!

Thiefs have to be extremely informative. We can't just join the party and fight.. we have to inform the party the arrangments for SATA, when to stand in the formation. Its no easy job.

Thiefs are so complex! No noobish player could take one past 30!

Sorry for the lecture >.<

Edited, Wed May 19 17:02:28 2004 by Drihorn
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#36 May 19 2004 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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RNG. You sit back and do ranged attacks, but because of the hate issue, you (usually) can't fire nonstop.

I actually got into a powerlevelling PT in Valkurm by accident...to make a long story short, I have no respect for powerlevellers, and I could go for 10-20 minutes firing only a few ranged attacks without being noticed. Heck, sometimes I never even drew my sword.
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#37 May 19 2004 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I'd say MNK also.

WolfPackFnord wrote:
I'd probably add in second and third place (in no particular order), Dragoon and Summoner.


/nod. I totally agree with this. Now, I've played with a good SMN before and it was good stuff. Honestly, though, I have no idea what their role in a part (other than gimped healer / blue squirl wielder) in a pt is. Now, I play one (and I'm not nocking the Summoner's at all. I've heard it's a very complex class to play and you all have my respect) but again, being so little of them, no one really knows what they should be doing. Dragoon is pretty much the same way. Not sure what they're supposed to do other than just hit auto attack and sick Wyvren.

Bard... Well... If you've played with a good bard, then any bad ones stand out like a sore thumb. Past 25, providing everything else is right, you should have little to no down time with a BRD in your pt (atleast in my limited experience.) Got from 1/4 into 28 to 3 kills into 31 in 2 1/2 hours one night with a Bard. It was constant insanity. I will never look at a BRD the same way again, and never think that every person with a bloody harp is a good BRD every again...

Anyway, I ramble. The fact remains that (barring a WHM and BLM and other common classes) if the job is rare or your knowledge of how to play them is limited, then bad people will look good, mistakes will be unnoticed, and people will hide behind the mask of "I'm a good player, d00d LoLz!!111!!one!1" for a little longer.
#38 May 19 2004 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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:( @ the 20+ votes for Monk.

Just as another poll: Have a lot of you lost faith in Monks because of the idiots you get in Valkurm and Qufim? I'm just wondering, because it took a lot of getting some actual fame with people to get into parties at Garlaige. I can sit there using Mithkabobs, Boosting before every fight, using Berserk if my damage is dropping, using Focus on the high evasion mobs, playing SAnTA dummy, and so on.

Honestly, if you ever need a PERFECT SAnTA dummy, get a MNK. At level 35, I have 849 health and 50 VIT. I can voke the mob, hold the hate with Boosts, take whatever damage needed, then let the tank get the hate back and Chakra the damage off. :/

EDIT:

Oh, and what about DRKs? I've seen a LOT of horrible DRKs, but people love them because they hit for around 100 damage at level 15. From 10-29, DRKs don't have to do ****. Maybe they cast Bio once in a while to knock the mob, but all they have to do is keep their scythe up to date and everyone loves them. I've started a DRK, but I've spent times just levelling my magic skills trying to cap them. I obviously never will cap Dark magic, but I can at least try to get my Drains to do more than 10 health.

Edited, Wed May 19 17:48:56 2004 by Agrorthal
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#39 May 19 2004 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
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drachasor brings up a good pt about DRKs

i rarely see them using their Absorb spells...some of them in fact are using Bio, Poison, etc which generally can be done by a blm or rdm.

i have to respectfully object about thieves though. the question was, which jobs can a bad player hide behind? a bad thief is very noticeable.


#40 May 19 2004 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Everyone North American gamer seems to hate monks, but when i played my monk from 20-30 i had to watch my agro, or i would accidentally pull the monster from the warrior or paladin. It might be less of a problem now with subtle blow, but you could put any fighting class into the 3rd fighter slot and they can pretty much just hack away and not do anything else.
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#41 May 19 2004 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, I'm just starting my partying levels as a RNG and I don't think anyone would notice if I screwed around as long as I did a good job pulling


Quite the opposite. Justified or not, RNGs enjoy a pretty good reputation for performance out there...if you constantly miss and don't perform well, folks start questioning your equipment & your commitment.

As you climb in levels, your RNG weaponskills & job abilities like Barrages & Sidewinders all get serious attention by both tanks and healers. And as a puller, you can't hide behind the fact that you're a lazy player...you're either good at this or you're not.

You can't hit "autofire" as a RNG and go get a hotdog. ^^
#42 May 19 2004 at 7:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Monk, I have to agree.

On Drk, it's easy to see a bad player. One who dosen't get/use Drain/Aspir or the Absorb spells, is a bad player. One who uses lvl 10 equipment, pops Souleater + Last Resort + Berserk + WS and dies, then complains about not getting hate off him... is a bad player.
#43 May 19 2004 at 7:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll admit that DRG is a pretty easy job, but once I got mine to level 30, it got an added bonus: Sneak Attack. Now that adds a whole new layer of depth to the otherwise boring "hit auto attack, wait for TP, call for SC, lather rinse repeat".

As for DRK... its the same deal, you do big damage and not much else (unless you quested for those spells or coughed up the large amount of gil in the AH for them).

It seems that the non-provoking damage dealers are pretty much a plug & play class...
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#44 May 19 2004 at 7:53 PM Rating: Decent
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What about BST?
They don't usually PT, so no one really notices their mistakes. If they are in a PT, their role is really uncertain, so you can't tell them they did something really wrong. Like you can't tell them that they are horrible tanks/healers/dmgdealers/etc.

I'm not saying that BST doesnt take skill...I'm just saying that if one doesnt have skill, they still won't be noticed.
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#45 May 19 2004 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
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As a DRK, I'd say it's really damn easy to spot an idiot DRK. No spells, no MACROED spells, not current... There's a litany of things to indicate a slacker. If you want to say that Bio and Poison are supposed to be for RDM only, that's plain ignorant.

Easiest to hide behind? Early levels, it's definitely MNK. Thump mob, move on. Later levels? There isn't a single class you can really hide behind past 30 that won't get flagged as lagging.
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#46 May 19 2004 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
I was in a party recently where if I (a whm) had been incompetent, it might not have been very obvious. The tank was a paladin and mostly did his own healing, so often there wasn't much for me to do.

... Well, until the stonegas started coming out. *Then* it would have been *very* obvious if I hadn't been paying attention. ^_^;

From my admittedly limited experience, monk makes sense, not so much because of anything in particular about monks as because of their role as a damage dealer. If the tank screws up, you'll find out pretty quickly. If the whm screws up, probably the same. But with a primarily damage dealing class, it's hard to tell because the main indicator of something wrong - their damage output - is hard to judge. Maybe the same thing could apply to blms, who are also mainly damage dealers, just using spells instead of weapons. Yeah, if they overnuke, you'll know, but if they're just not doing as much damage as they could, how do you tell? It can be hard enough just keeping track of how well *I'm* doing... If I spent enough time paying attention to other people to really judge their output, I probably wouldn't be paying enough attention to doing *my* job.

Thief... well, enough people have already talked about it already. The difference the thief abilities make is too major to miss.

~sleepygirl

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#47 May 19 2004 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Wait a min.. is this a trick question?

Okay, I see all these "Monk" responses.. and maybe I'm missing something... but if the Monk is up-to-date on his equipment, and he's dealing his damage (as designed) by the job. How is that a "bad player"?

In a way, MNK is probably the one job that can make (not hide) a bad-player competent, or at least semi-competent at a job.

Now I can understand if he's not hitting skillchains regularly. A monk should NEVER miss his opporunity to skillchain, unless he's got to use it for Stun attacks (such as shoulder attack) for a AOE-Damage.

I consider myself a competent Monk when I'm partying with that character, and I have two jobs (IMO) when that's my primary job... 1) Damage and 2) SkillChains. (I'm not to the 25 level area yet, so I can't add the take the Sneak Attack for the thief to my list yet... otherwise it'd go on the list.).

Now I KNOW I'm going to get disagreed with on this one.. but you want to know where bad players can hide, IMO. As a Black Mage. Nuke, Nuke, Nuke... they're using their MP as the game suggests, but they're using it a LOT faster than they should. It's something so simple, but can screw up the "hate chart" so badly, as well as pull-rate due to MP recovery, it's not even funny.

And most people would simply note during play, that "Oh, our mage needs MP"... no one would question why they need it after nearly every pull.
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#48 May 19 2004 at 8:47 PM Rating: Good
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Being a Monk myself, it's very easy for me to spot a bad one in a PT. I also think that most people would say that Monk is the easiest to had bad players behind because a lot of people haven't partied with good Monks. Monks are rare enough post 60 when the real fights begin so what would people base their opinions of?

Below LV30 it's so easy for a bad player to play a Paladin or Warrior. As long as they keep their armor updated and spam provoke, you won't know if they will really be any good post 40. There is, however, a good way to spot the good Warrior tanks. Just see who manages to Berserk for skillchains and turn it off afterwards. Bad Paladins can probably make thir way to the 50's without people realizing their ineptitude because it is very easy for them to get into parties. Once the bad player PT's with a Ranger at 55 (Sidewinder), you'll know if he's really any good. I know of a very bad Paladin that got LV75. He's blacklisted by a lot of people as he is known to bail from PT's that get in trouble, refuse to provoke after dying accidentally once and be rude overall.

Bad players can also play WHM well once they get enough smarts to know that too many cures kill them. To spot the good ones, you look for those that know when to use Erase, who to Haste, who never let a status disability last for more than 5 seconds and those that participate in magic bursts.

Bad BLM are hard to spot once they get the timing of MB's down. The good ones know when to use Stun and Sleep.

Once DRG get 49 and Penta Thrust, it's hard to determine if they are any good. Once they get to the 60's it becomes easy to identify the good from the bad by their accuracy, how they take care of their wyvern, when they use their jump abilities and how they participate in hate control.

RDM are also easy to get by with since they are so in demand. Most people are happy with those that cast enfeebling spells, refresh, and BLM spells. Decent RDM know when to use convert, the good ones know how to use it in battle without getting killed. What will really make a good RDM stand out is when the PT gets in trouble. If the RDM knows how to use Stoneskin, Phalanx in tight spots, that RDM is good.

Prior to LV60, bad DRK can get by easily. Post 60 you'll know the good ones by their use of ABS spells and Stun, their aptitude with Thief SJ, their skill with Great Swords and their alternate set of defensive armor.

Bad players can play Samurai easily before LV30 since most people don't know that Samurai at that time ought to be part-archers for TP gain and accuracy. The good ones pre 30 will be equipped for tanking. The good ones post 30 will decide all the skillchains and be able to do at least 2 skillchains a fight against IT monsters. At the 40's up, you'll be able to identify good Samurai even better by their ability to alternate between accuracy/attack equipment and defense equipment.

BST is probably the easiest job for a bad player to hide in since there isn't any other person to see them foul up. However, it's almost guaranteed that only the good BSTs get past the 50's.

Bad THF can get by once they know how to macro Sneak Attack + Trick Attack. It's not very hard. You will be able to spot the good ones at how quickly they set up the initial fuidama and how they will be able to do another fuidama 10 seconds after that one. Incidentally, you can spot any bad sub-tank/attacker job easily when they are PT'd with Thieves because they do not line up properly and they don't switch to defensive armor when they get monster attention.

I think the jobs where bad and good players can be immediately noticed are Ninja by their aptitude at hate control, utsusemi, debuffs; Ranger by their skill at soloing worm-types; Bard and Summoner at how and when they uses their songs and summons.

Edited, Wed May 19 21:49:21 2004 by Resistance
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#49 May 19 2004 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
What, doesn't Dark Knight get a vote? There are soooo many bad ones, and few people that know about what a good one should be doing. How many of them do you know that use their absorb-stat spells, for example? How many that don't even use spells? And this is seldom noticed in my experience, until a good one comes along.


Just for the record: I open every fight with ABS-AGI, use Souleater when the mob is low on HP and Last Resort + Berserk after the tank has built up hate. I use meat mithkabobs as soon as the last one runs out, and I keep my gear updated (to the best my pitiful wallet can afford --;)

I really hate the DRKs that give all of us a bad name, though. And the ones that try to cram all of their damage in at the beginning of the battle.
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#50 May 19 2004 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Monk is by far the easiest job to hide behind. I agree with anyone who says thf as well, but only pre-lvl 30. After that it takes a great deal of alertness to properly fix hate, and position himself.
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#51 May 20 2004 at 1:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Now I may be a little biased here but just for arguements sake I'm goin gto say White Mage. Why, they are in such high demand, simple as that. Parties will undoubtedly keep a less than stellar WHM just because they need the healing, and since that is all a WHM does it is a rather straight forward job.
Now while MNK might be easy for a bad player to hide behind, how do you know a good Monk from a bad one if it is so easy to hide as one? Past lvl 5 is he not stacking boost before battle? Is he not boosting during the battle? What about Focus a little later in the game? Being the main DoT dealer monks have to be careful. Surley weapons, food, and armor need to be up to date to be a good monk as well. You can notice the monks with a horribly under-leveled weapon who doesn't use what SE gave him/her. I'm basing this on early level gameplay by the way.

Another thought, since the whole idea of this thread is a bad player being able to look like a normal one, how do you know if what you are seeing is a bad player at all... If its an easy job does that mean the good player behind the character is simply not using his character to his full potential, or can you notice a good Monk when you see one? If so you should be able to spot a bad one presumably. If not, what does it matter if the person is a bad player, you should be happy they are playing the "easy" job.

Remember arguements sake here...
Intelligent responses, not flames.

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