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BLM/SMNFollow

#1 Jan 25 2004 at 7:50 PM Rating: Decent
I am a TaruTaru, and I was wondering, if you put Summoner as your Sub-Job (BLM/SMN), Would you get a BIG MP boost?
#2 Jan 25 2004 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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758 posts
Yes you would, possibly too much of one.


While under ideal circumstances a blm doesn't take any damage...reality is a little different. I would suggest either rdm or whm, but its really up to you
#3 Jan 25 2004 at 8:24 PM Rating: Decent
I tried BLM/SMN, and I like it a lot =)

I would wholeheartedly recommend it to Humes, Elvaan, and *cough cough* galka...

Mithra and Taru, make sure you have good provokers, cause you're a bit more fragile... but you should do GREATLY... I recommend it =)
#4 Jan 26 2004 at 12:38 AM Rating: Decent
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BLM/SUM + Taru + Bonus MP equippment = Largest Mana pool in the game.
#5 Jan 26 2004 at 1:05 AM Rating: Decent
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86 posts
i think smn/blm taru + mp equip beats that by quite a bit ;x
#6 Jan 26 2004 at 1:37 AM Rating: Decent
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You might be right on that. Didn't do the math corectly. I was taking into consideration the insanely large ammount of MP you get when you sub SMN.
#7 Jan 26 2004 at 1:48 AM Rating: Decent
31 posts
i was considering this combo, but you're really useless to the party this way, especially as a taru. if you're galkan or elvaan, and need the extra int and mp, and dont have money for astral rings, go for it. the problem with subbing smn and not whm is that your subjob becomes useless...ex. at lv 50, you get about 80mp or so less (again, taru) with whm, but you have raise, regen, blink, plus sneak/invis to help the whm out if you need to bypass a higher lvl area. with summoner, you can pull a lv 25 monster out of your ***...whee...

i'm going to sub whm all the way, mainly because its a lot more useful to the party...and if the party dies, chances are you're dead too...or at least not getting exp. neither of those are good. white mage is actually a useful sub, because many of the useful buffs are early on and below 37 (hell you even get 3 teleports and reraise)
#8 Jan 26 2004 at 10:59 AM Rating: Decent
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1,747 posts
Point being: as a Taru you have enough MP basically.. I'd choose WHM or even RDM for a tiny bit more HP, plus some useful spells (SMN sub is ONLY worth it for the MP and stat boosts)

Right now I'm playing a Hume BLM/SMN myself tho (just for an MP boost at lower levels, mind)
#9 Jan 26 2004 at 11:12 AM Rating: Default
LMAO you can never have to much MP. The most powerful character in the game becomes a BLM/SUM or SUM/BLM easily can nuke what ever they need to nuke and never worry about MP why because they can summon a Tank hehehehehe Then unload every high cost mp attack spell without ever worrying about running out.
#10 Jan 26 2004 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
i checked this out on the stat calculator( http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~nhart/Status_calculator.htm ) and it says a summoner subbed to a blm gets 960mp, while if you have a whm subbed you get 922mp(this is without equipment of course, and also with a tarutaru)

so you get 38 extra mp, and your intelligence is even 4 more than with a whm subbed

so all thats great, but then you can't heal in those emergency situations like a rdm or whm sub would be able to

but chances are, your summoner would be useless as a sub, unless you have all the avatars, then maybe at least you can cast a group blink or something
#11 Jan 26 2004 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
with a smn subbed you get 960mp at lvl 75, with whm subbed you get 922

with a smn subbed you get 4 extra INT than a whm subbed

with smn subbed that means likely your subjob is useless unless you have all the avatars, which would only make it useful for a roup blink or something really, with a whm subbed you can heal in emergency situations, which could be quite useful

p.s. *sorry if i double posted this, the other post didnt show up yet and i think i might have closed it instead of posting it*
#12 Jan 26 2004 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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664 posts
Personally, I'm convinced RDM is the best sub for BLM. It boosts your HPs while not doing too much damage to your MPs, gives you fast cast, heal spells, a wider assortment of debuffs (if you need them) the same travel utilities as a WHM (sneak/invis/deod) and adds phalanx to your ******** making you much less likely to die to a couple random hits at higher levels. The fast cast makes a noticable difference in casting times (I hate levelling my other mage subs now because of the slow casting speeds) and helps in timing your MBs.
#13 Jan 26 2004 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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870 posts
Here are my thoughts on subs for my BLM.

SMN - Not going to happen. By far the best mage related stat boost, but look at the negatives. Useless 1/2 strength summons. No extra spells. No useful traits.

WHM - Good stat bonus, not as good as SMN. Lowest INT increase of all mage classes, INT is more important stat for BLM. Good spell list @ level 37. Magic Defense is nice, as is Clear Mind.

RDM - Good stat bonus, not as good as SMN. INT bonus is just one point below SMN, pretty much negligable. Not as high MP bonus as SMN or WHM, but depending on level that could be 10-20 MP difference. Good spell list, more offensive spells (debuffs) than WHM, but you don't get teleports or mass heal/buff spells. Decent Passives, but you get FAST CAST!

For this reason I chose RDM as my sub. I'm losing just a bit of MP, gaining a bit more HP. Getting great INT bonuses and I get Fast Cast (kick *** ability). The debuffs are a help too.

IMO,

Z
#14 Jan 26 2004 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
Well, here is my 2gils

As a Hume, I love my SMN sub, max MP boost, more INT, and refresh when I hit lvl50 BLM. (Best of all, as a BLM, I hate curing....lol)

If you are playing taru, then IMO RDM is best. More hp, some INT, and fast cast. Taru got good enough MP pool already.

And also IMO, I don't really like subbing WHM. Yes, you can heal during battle, but blasting and healing together....won't you just become a hate generator. Couple of lvl II spell, and Cure II or Cure III. But then again, if you are a master at hate control, subbing WHM will get the group most.

In conclusion, as a Hume BLM that doesn't like curing, I choose SMN over WHM or RDM.


exdream
BLM 35
SMN 20
RDM 16
WHM 5

Carbuncle
#15 Jan 26 2004 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
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870 posts
Xdream,

Good point, I've never thought about it from another race's point of view. Always being Taru spoiled me I suppose. I'll keep your points in mind for other non-Tarus.

Z
#16 Jan 26 2004 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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799 posts
Does the stats calculator calculate MP bonus for SMN sub correctly? At the top there's a message asking for SMNs to send in MP info. Just a thought.
#17 Jan 26 2004 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
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174 posts
People are saying Summoner is useless as a sub job on it's own merits. This couldn't be further from the truth. Look at what you get as a Summoner sub, that no one else in the game but another summoner can do:
AOE Blink
AOE Regen (Bards can do this, but Summoner buff stacks with
WHM and Bard Regen spells.)
AOE Ice Spikes
AOE Enthunder

These are just the party buffs. Now you can use one every 60 seconds, which means that depending on durations you can get any two or three of them rolling at once. Not something to snear at, especially the Blink and Regen effects when used in tandem with another support job. In the long run, Tarutaru BLM/SUM might be overkill. But it should work out just fine, for all except those that demand the most twinky, cookie-cutter characters in their parties. And besides, what mage doesn't want an MP pool that would make a minor diety jealous? This is one of the best ways to pull it off.

Good luck with the magical purification and burning of the world.

EDIT

As an afterthought, I checked your calculator, and can confirm that it does not take into account the Summoner passives. Auto Refresh is more important to White Mages than Black, but helping to keep up that MP for the few times you need an Escape is welcome. Also, Max MP Boost is undocumented by this calculator, so the Max MP results are scewed at best. As a level 10 Summoner, Max MP Boost seems to provide 12 MP above what the calculator says I should have. I imagine this bonus will only grow with time.

Edited, Mon Jan 26 15:39:51 2004 by Doole
#18 Jan 26 2004 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
Sorry guy the calulator does not take summoner bonus in its cal hehehehehehe. I love smn sub the best nuker in the game......
#19 Jan 26 2004 at 7:38 PM Rating: Decent
the problem with a lot of the opinions here is that they are from people who are level 30 and think they know the game. a level 50 blm/25 smn has a huge amount of mp, plus gets MP REFRESH from subbing 25 smn. and no, you cant have too much hp. I have a 50 blm/25 rdm. my newest spell is freeze(1k dmg MB, awesome) which costs 307 mp to cast. you want the biggest mp tank possible when spells cost so much to cast.

the argument that your sub isnt useful is ridiculous. it greatly increases the strength of your main job. you still get drain if you want to heal yourself a bit, but your job isnt healing , its damage dealing. if you are healing then you draw too much hate to nuke at the same time. the biggest drawback to not having rdm or whm sub is missing out on the sneak and invis and blink.
#20 Jan 26 2004 at 7:56 PM Rating: Decent
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doesn't a Taru RDM/SMN + mana equip have the largest mana pool past LVL 41? (Convert)
#21 Jan 26 2004 at 8:43 PM Rating: Decent
I have been doing so many researches on decided how to sub my BLM. So far it seems no doubt that BLM/RDM, BLM/WHM, BLM/SMN are the best choices.

Despite there are many disputed on which of them the best, I find that there are pretty equally amount of pros and cons for all 3, this lead me to believe all 3 of them are closed enough to say which is the best from overall perspective.

I hope there will be players with level 75 on BLM, RDM, WHM, SMN, to give better insight on this.

So for me, I decided to choose the one I will enjoy the game the most, BLM/WHM.
#22 Jan 27 2004 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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758 posts
saiyajinknight wrote:
LMAO you can never have to much MP. The most powerful character in the game becomes a BLM/SUM or SUM/BLM easily can nuke what ever they need to nuke and never worry about MP why because they can summon a Tank hehehehehe Then unload every high cost mp attack spell without ever worrying about running out.


Sounds like someone thats never really played a mage....or not past lvl 10

Summon a tank and the mob will promptly ignore it, "unload" in a party and you'll most likely end up dead...but you'll have lots of mp remaining!
#23 Jan 27 2004 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
I have to admit SMN/BLM and BLM/SMN are by far the most fun to play with enough MP and your own personal tank I love it. I eat pie and just run a muck. The key to summoner is summon magic get a spirit earth from NORG 550 gil and train that magic up and even with just the Atomic Chipmunk and a little strategy soloing is easy including toughs.
#24 Jan 27 2004 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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1,747 posts
hehe true, i've seen my share of tarus perish with over 1/2 mp pool left, sometimes a goblin bomb is all it takes..
#25 Jan 27 2004 at 1:53 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
SMN - Not going to happen. By far the best mage related stat boost, but look at the negatives. Useless 1/2 strength summons. No extra spells. No useful traits.

WHM - Good stat bonus, not as good as SMN. Lowest INT increase of all mage classes, INT is more important stat for BLM. Good spell list @ level 37. Magic Defense is nice, as is Clear Mind.


ummm well first off, smn gets a VERY useful job trait.. it gets MP regen at lvl 25, so a lvl 50 blm could have that

and a whm gets clear mind yes.. but so does a blm, and they don't stack together.. so the whm clear mind is useless - but yea, i guess the magic defense is alright, and the hp regen whm gets

personally i would choose smn as my sub until lvl 72, when a subbed whm can teleport
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