a note on racism and witchhuntsFollow

This will be my first and only post here.

I've browsed this forum for a while, and I've noticed that any time a certain nationality gets mentioned on this forum - that thread promptly turns into a witchhunt.

I firmly believe that:
Even though a poster doesn't search for words in the P.C. dictionary or sprinkles his/her sentences with rose leaves, he/she is not necessarily a rotten genocidal *******.
And if you think about it, how is mentioning [nationality] playing style, party, or whatever any more racist than e.g. 'latin temper'?

My naive suggestion would be to relax a little, and stop being so suspicious and/or paranoid. I believe that this whole witchhunt is caused by misunderstanding, and that none of these posts have any intentional racist and/or discriminating intent.
These posts do, however, make reading this forum a sour experience from time to time. This is a game forum, after all.

Please share any views and comments, but please consider my proposal, and think about what the ("demographically-describatory-vocabulary-challenged") poster really meant. It might even have been supposed to flatter you.

Yes, from now on "Japanese players tend to be elitist" will be replaced by "From my personal experiences in the matter, the conglomeration of players from East Asian countries, have seemed to be, in my opinion, a tad more discriminating in their tastes for party members than would seem normal by our North American standards. But none of this is relevant, even if it is my personal experience, because it all can be discounted because of my lack of understanding about 'cultural differences'."

And "North American players tend to be rude and annoying" will be known by "From my personal experiences in the matter, I think that the group of players who speak English and are largely located in North America seem to be less polite and a smidge more rowdy than people I have been exposed to. But none of this is relevant, even if it is my personal experience, because it can all be discounted because of my lack of understanding about 'cultural differences'."

"As referring to "**** is racism" i disagree... We call black people "negro". Is that racism... i think not."

No, "we" do not. Maybe it's different in Holland, but in North America you'd probably be a.) fired from your job for referring to a black person as a "negro," and b.) get your *** kicked in the parking lot as you were leaving.

Referring to a Japanese person as a "***" is like calling a black person a "n*gger." It's a derogatory racial slur.

Edited, Sat Jan 24 08:50:02 2004 by Damsyn

Then maybe it is different here... maybe I did explain wrong, "foreigners" is a better word then... but negro or *** isnt called racism here... You just have to look out in wich sentences you choose to say those words

"i don't see how *** is considered a racial slur, its the same as paki, turk, brit, they all relate to their homeland. Pakistani, Turkey, Britian, Japan."

Turk is the proper terms for someone from Turkey. Brit has never had negative connotations--it's just a shortened form of British. This isn't the case with the other two terms though--they have a history as being "created" as racial slurs, and thus they are racial slurs.

The term "paki" is a racial slur. It was a British-invented word that was used to negatively describe Pakistani immigrants.

The term "***" has similiar connotations and has roots as far back as the times of British Imperialism. It primarily was used during World War 2 as an insult.

Just because the terms are "related" to the name of a country doesn't make them acceptable.

If it's not a word you would say to a member of that ethnicity's face, chances are it's a racial slur. It probably wouldn't go over to well if you called a Pakistani person a "paki" for example.

well it all depends on how you use the words, if you're just gonna focus on the negative ways of using it then yeah its gonna sound like a slur, but oftenly the word *** is used for takeaway survices and paki's for a group of people from pakistan. heck if somebody sounded turk wrong it'd be considered a racial slur, people are too touchy nowadays. i myself am a turk and i hear from both sides of the racial arguement with the rest of my family. some say its racial, others say it isnt. its all a matter of opinion.

now ****** on the other hand, that is directly a racial slur, as it was ment to make black slaves feel like a lower life form to their white owners, but even nowadays you get rappers calling each other "*****", and that isnt considered racist.

The word *** has a lot of negative baggage with it but i find on the boards here people use mainly just because its shorter.

Havent really seen any hate for Japanese and never have seen the term used on these boards used to put someone down or belittle anyone.

Let the witch hunts end, i wish i could rate up Ratedown for a good post :P

Just because you don't personally find something offensive, that doesn't mean it's right to expect or try to force the same reaction out of others. It's all about respecting other people's wishes, and avoiding a couple words out of a bjillion in the language is not going to kill anyone.

If you aren't educated about the fact that calling someone a "***" is rude and unacceptable, I should think you'd be grateful to be informed that it is. Could help you from needlessly hurting someone's feelings in the future, and I hardly think that's a bad thing.

YOU do not get to decide what OTHER PEOPLE find offensive. Maybe you think it's really funny to run around and call all women ************** but don't expect all women to appreciate it. The word carries negative connotations, no matter how jovially you might intend it, and the recipient of the term is in no way obligated to conform to your view of the world or ideas of language usage.

I agree very much with the original post here--I think it's ridiculous the way a lot of people will jump down anyone's throat for any reason they can find. It's important to keep some perspective.

If you see someone using a racist term or saying something inappropriate, try kindly informing them of exactly what negative connotations that word or phrase carries before berating them for being racist jerks. Maybe they just didn't know--that seems to be the case quite often around here, anyway. But that doesn't make it any more acceptable to use disparaging terms. Ignorance does not necessarily equal intolerance, but we should all be doing our best to fight both. If you try to help people out of their ignorance, it will frequently prevent them from being incorrectly perceived as being intolerant.

In other words, respect other people and, at the same time, give them the benefit of the doubt. ^.^

Exactly! ^^

That's all I am saying. The people who honestly just don't know (and there are a lot of people like that) deserve just as much respect and politeness as the people you might be trying to defend. Give them the benefit of the doubt--most people deserve at least that much. You can't telepathically know everything. That's why it's nice to share important information like that . . . respectfully.

Seeing people get nasty with nice folks who just don't know any better is just as bad as seeing someone who knows a term is racist continuing to use it.

We all don't know a lot of things. It's called being human.

I'm japanese and I find that *** is acceptable....

Nip is more of a purposely derogatory term, as there pretty much is no other association with the term besides to slander another.

I'm not sure you people even know what racisim is... lol..

Racisim is simply recognizing the differences between races, so yes - calling someone a *** or a negro (or worse) is racist.

However, acting on those differences, and treating 'x' race worse then you would treat yourself is called bigotry. (Thats the one thats actually bad, just so you know.)

-Winks, Fairy Server.

What worries me is that I'm white, and as such I think I have to face a lot of bigotry. Think about this. Being white, I have to show a lot more care about what I say, how I say it, and especially what words I use than any other section of the population. It's easy for me to be accused of being a bigot/racist. It's not okay for me to stare and whisper at a black person walking around a predominately white area, but it's okay for staring and comments when I'm walking around a predominately black/Latino area.

I think the solution is for people to just treat each other normally, like PEOPLE, instead of treating each other as representatives of group/culture/race. Spending five minutes trying to think of a non-derogatory word for "black" is not treating blacks as equals, it's treating them as children with easily hurt feelings. I don't mind being referred to as white, ******, cracker; and I probably wouldn't mind slang terms for Americans if I even knew what they were in other countries. I know what and who I am. Other people can't tell me what I am, and they can't insult me by telling me what I am, even if they intend to.

I admit I've never been a minority. I've never faced the situations that minorities have to face. But come on people, there's a point where you have to say, hey. This is stupid. Everyone's running around screaming about nothing. You should be able to tell when someone is intentionally insulting you and when they're not -- and you shouldn't get all upset at someone who used a mildly and *arguably* unpleasant word with no bad intent. To me, "***" is just a shortened form of Japanese. There are other words for Oriental people that ARE very insulting, and we all know better than to use those words (I hope). Even if there is bad history behind the word *** (though I really doubt if there's any evil meaning to the word itself), that's over. Get over it. Just like "negro"... this is just my rambling theory, but I took Spanish class in high school and "negro" means black. Although of course no one is "black" anymore either. So I'm taking a stand. From now on I demand to be referred to as an Irish-Danish-Polish-Native-American, and since I'm predominately Irish I demand that all official documents that I have to interact with be printed in Celtic. And since I'm Polish, I'm going to sue the living **** out of the next person who makes a Pollack joke in my hearing.

Speaking of which, so why are Pollack jokes okay? I've never seen anyone stand up for the rights of Polish people.

And I do apologize if I've insulted anyone, I really didn't do it intentionally.

Exactly. There are certain words that, just by their utterance, implies a negative viewpoint. Negro, for example, is almost one of those words, very close to a word I'm sure we all recognize as pretty much racist by itself. Honestly, using '***' instead of 'Japanese' is more trouble than its worth, and the only people that use it are the ones trying to make a point about how racist they aren't. There are many more acceptable and effective terms that can be used.