Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

No WHM = No Party?Follow

#1 Jan 17 2004 at 3:09 PM Rating: Default
*
121 posts
Ok this is something that has bugged me for awhile. Yesterday I was in Qufim looking for a party. I noticed that there were two other people (a Warrior and a Thief/Warrior) looking, so I suggested to them that we should party. We all got together and then started looking for a healer. This is, of course, extremely hard to do. Meanwhile, since I was the party leader, I was getting tells from other people asking to join. There was a Thief, a Warrior (good friend of mine) and a Black Mage. They all were gung ho about joining until they asked if we had a WHM. I responded that we were looking for one, and they either decided not to join or I got no further response. This irritates me to no end. I can sort of understand the BLM, as mages can afford to be picky with parties (since they will always find a party). However, melees really have no reason to be picky. What else are you going to do man? Most likely sit on your *** with your flag up, bored out of your mind and earning NO experience, hoping somebody picks you up. In a party you at least can converse with other players, and even fight tough con monsters, while searching for a WHM. That's what my party did. We picked up a Pal/War and fought some tough con Worms until I had to go.

To me it's a sign of extreme impatience when someone won't join a group without a WHM. It's not like it's easy to find them, and it will only get worse in Kazham. I realize that some people are doing this in an attempt to avoid bad groups. While I can understand the principle behind that, you can't assume that just because a group doesn't have a WHM that they are bad. If everybody refused to join until the group had a WHM, hardly anybody would get groups. Plain and simple. Why not stick with what you can get (low experience vs. no experience) without a healer until the group can find one. But I guess some people would rather spend hours sitting with their flag up.
#2 Jan 17 2004 at 3:24 PM Rating: Default
****
4,148 posts
I had the same trouble last night and this morning ... I was able to get into a PT right away the first time there, however the 2nd and 3rd time there it was torture.

If i ever decide to play another character it's going to be a WHM/RDM or something along those lines
#3 Jan 17 2004 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
If I can't find a whm I settle for a rdm or blm with whm subbed and try to feed them juices if I can. It's slower than not having a whm but I don't mind getting by that way. Without anyone to heal at all I'd rather to farm fish or craft with my time that I'm playing. With the large downtime and practically no skillchains, I don't have an enjoyable time. There's also quests and missions I can try to finish if I can't find a party.

Then again I don't really powerlevel on this game. I don't have that need for xp. I do in most games I play but I'm totally sucked into crafting. :)
#4 Jan 17 2004 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
****
4,575 posts

i think a lot of people who dont know their role or how to damage effectively (eg use renkei) depend on whm to keep them alive long enough to eventually kill the monster with their auto-attack method.

additionally, some players just fear dying and losing exp in a group without a healer (eg, it is something they could have avoided)

so these are why they want a healer type..for those players, i just say, see you later! im one who likes almost any kind of exp i can get. i've gotten several thousand exp in a session just pulling tough cons...we can chain those like crazy, kill them with renkei easily, etc.

for those who dont know how effective renkei is, i have seen it take out 25-50% of a VT/IT mob's health....that's how you get massive exp fast.



#5 Jan 17 2004 at 4:05 PM Rating: Default
***
1,973 posts
i hope this will change the views of the minds of some of those players (whom i find quite irritating ><)

when i was ~level 12 (taru BLM) i heard that killing MMs in shakrami would give me uber xp ^^ so i put my flag up and went over there

now when i was asked to join a PT via a tell, i just said sure (thats all u need to get me; if i decide the PT sux i can just make up some lame excuse as to y i have to leave lol), and i was now in a full PT; heres how it was (im guessing at the lvls but everything else is right):

lvl 12 galka WAR
lvl 12 hume PLD/WAR
lvl 13 mithra RNG/WAR
lvl 11 taru BLM
lvl 11 taru BLM
lvl 12 taru BLM (me)

so obviously the hume only had limited healing ability, but he wasnt the tank (galka had ~same defense and more hp), so he would drop a heal now and then on the galka

we chained 3 IT MMs at one point; because of the RNG, we got to them b4 the other parties nearly every time

we PTed for 4 hours, and when the galka and 2 of the BLMs said they had to go (they were RL friends) we decided to head back

every SINGLE member of the PT went up THREE lvls

lvl 15 galka WAR
lvl 15 hume PLD/WAR
lvl 16 mithra RNG/WAR
lvl 14 taru BLM
lvl 14 taru BLM
lvl 15 taru BLM (me)

now that is awesome; my friend came on while i was on my way back to windy and he was like did u lvl up? i said 3 times, he said lol, then i told him to do a search on me ^^ i got quite a few WTFs

so point is, if every1 nos what theyre doing (which this PT was awesome at) u dont need a WHM
#6 Jan 17 2004 at 4:11 PM Rating: Default
28 posts
Last night I was playing my WHM in Quifm. When I finally had to go to bed everyone disbanded. I tried to make sure that we had a full party when I left, but even the people staying online (and not having to sleep) disbanded when I did. I don't get the "I don't have a WHM and I'm not partying until you find one" mentality either. Especially since they had a good BLM. =P

/em shrugs at the weird people
#7 Jan 17 2004 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
**
278 posts
Maze Makers are a differant Story. A 10+ RNG can solo these and so can a BLM.

The real story comes when you are in places like Quifim and Kazham where you NEED a WHM.

You try taking down a VT+ Goblin, Giant, or Pugil without a WHM.
You will find it nearly impossible.

Levels 20+ it becomes nessisary for a WHM in the PT, unless you want to fight things less than Tough.

(I know there are worms in Quifim, but they spawn in an area where Wights and Banshees spawn)
#8 Jan 17 2004 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
I understand and know that frustrating feeling of trying to build a group with no WHM at first and people being skeptical.
Though there is another side to the coin, I've been to quite a few parties that had one BLM and 4 WARS and choose to fill their lost slot with another melee instead of waiting for whm or getting a low lvl one, I just had to leave at that point, Because some group just have no future.
Sure enough I saw em being slaughtered by a pugil in a long battle that could've been a success with one whm and one less melee.
#9 Jan 17 2004 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
32 posts
While it is certainly true that effective parties can exist w/o a WHM, there is no denying that this is the exception. I am still fairly new to the game (20 Mnk/8 Thf), but it is often the case that there is an excess of War and a shortage of Whm. Qufim is a messy zone where all kinds of agro mobs run up the tunnel toward Jeuno Port, chasing players who are coming or going or waiting on a Whm. On top of the difficulty of finding a Whm, I am noticing that many people will drop out of a group with no notice (especially if it is taking a while to find a mage). The revolving door, ever-changing pick-up group can be tiresome. There is a lot to like about FFO, but it will be a lot less frustrating once I am in a good LS.

#10 Jan 17 2004 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
Whm's are the single most desireable party member. Always will be. Which is why I switched off of my warrior for a bit to level whm. As soon as you hit 10-13, you can start leveling in dunes. And you will NEVER have trouble finding a group.

That being said, 2 RDM's are an excellent sub for one whm. Provided they don't get over-zealous and forget to heal. Which kind of sucks for the RDM, having to be shunted to pure healing. But it still works. WHM's just make the world go round. However, WHM's are NOTHING without a warrior who has provoke. Duo with any other class at low levels and you'll see why.
#11 Jan 17 2004 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
Just consider this your time to get used to 40+ when it takes about an hour just to get a full party set up together, and no, that's not just because you're waiting for a WHM. You can't do a damn thing without a good tank either, so you could have a WHM, BRD, BLM, DRK, and THF sitting in town for two hours waiting for a similarly leveled WAR or PAL to show up. From 20-30 you can get by with a couple RDMs or couple BLM/WHMs (well, past 22 when they'd have Cure II anyways). Hell, one time in Kazham I was leading a great party and I receieved tells from no less than four WHMs asking if we had room. We only had one WHM at the time, and if someone other than she left I still wouldn't have invited any of the WHMs; I would've found another damage class. Considering the trifecta of tank/healer/damage that you need for a successful party, there's only so much healing that a party can withstand before being less efficient.

It all evens out really. You need a healer, which is one person to find. You need a tank, which is a second person to find. But then you have to find four damage/support classes. You have to find two others for every WHM or tank in your party. The time spent looking for these things evens out as each class gets more specialized.
#12 Jan 17 2004 at 8:51 PM Rating: Decent
*
155 posts
Ya lots of ppl think with out a whm the party just aint gonna survive. Ive had lots of parties that didnt have a whm in it but instead 2 rdms and a blm. True that having a whm really helps then a pair of rdms but at times 2 rdms will be enough to get some xp. which would u choose,
no whms=no party= 0 xp or 2rdms= decent party= at least some xp

i just keep checking by doing a /sea region whm lowerlv-higherlv every so ofter to see if a whm does pop up.
#13 Jan 17 2004 at 8:57 PM Rating: Default
Re: "melees really have no reason to be picky." - Origional Poster

I have to dissagree. Out of every role in the party, melees by far have the most reason to be choosy about wether they join a party with no WHM. Why? because its there backside on the front lines with there lives/exp in the hands of the group healer.

If things look like there going to turn bad, the casters already have a head start being a good distance away from the MOB before they start to run away.


Edited, Sat Jan 17 20:58:00 2004 by Abyssus
#14 Jan 17 2004 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
I saw a 5 man all blm party once. They were spread out, and juggled aggro through timed nukes. It was a cool thing to watch. Especially since I like seeing orcs die.
#15 Jan 17 2004 at 9:32 PM Rating: Decent
Here's a suggestion to net yourself some exp with no whm:

Build a party and save a spot for a whm and go kill modest stuff. When a whm comes along, then move up to the badder mobs.
You could also settle for a number of alternatives that aren't so bad either. Here's one just off the top of my head: bard and rdm for balad and refresh + pld + ???/whm + ???/whm + damage dealer. This adds up to lots of mana for everyone and you can have pld + rdm + ???/whm heal. *(note: whms make good subs for brds and rdms)

This is somewhat obvious so I will cut it short here. And this is by no means the only alternative for not having a whm in a pt.
#16 Jan 17 2004 at 9:50 PM Rating: Decent
This is untrue about not being able to PT without a WHM. RDM's can fill up the slot of a WHM to some extent.

People usually think they can't do anything when there's no WHM available. It will be more downtime, more healing = more lost TP, but still possible and much riskier.

But when no WHM's available, seek out an RDM and just make sure they know they're being recruited as main healer and you'll be fine.
#17 Jan 17 2004 at 10:58 PM Rating: Decent
I never had trouble finding a party... People team up with me even if there wasn't a white mage with us. I dont know what your talking about.
#18 Jan 18 2004 at 1:56 AM Rating: Default
29 posts
YunaCorny, you are still lvl 8, that doesn't really count >.<
You will see what they mean when you get to a higher lvl ^^
Unless you have a uber LS or something :P

And melee classes shouldn't be too picky unless you are high lvl :) Unless you are one of those powerlevelers, then I have nothing to say but you guys are annoying. It takes the fun out of mixmathc party. It might not be as effective having 3 whms, but 5/6 of it finds it fun, you just have to ruin it with your whiney blahs -.- if you are going to powerlevel, look for someone with your mindset and don't $^%&* at those that enjoy playing outside the leveling box :P

damn it, so muchhomework, haven't played FFXI in a week, DAMN YOU UNIVERSITY XD



Edited, Sun Jan 18 01:59:16 2004 by Yamakamui
#19 Jan 18 2004 at 2:09 AM Rating: Decent
***
1,847 posts
If I need to form a party I normally look for a whm. However I don't stress myself for it. 2 red mages allow you to work just as quickly as a single whm, and that still leaves room for a nuker and 3 melee characters. Plus, there's normally plenty of red mages around.

What I find annoying is people who flat out refuse to join because you don't have a whm. You don't NEED one. They help, yes, but they aren't essential unless you plan on needing a res. No, I'm not trying to demean white mages, but they aren't the be-all and end-all of support characters.

Besides, we're supposed to be adventurers in game. So why not take a chance on the other support characters for a little?
#20 Jan 18 2004 at 2:19 AM Rating: Default
You know why the two people you asked didn't join your PT?

The answer is right in your own posting:

"We picked up a Pal/War and fought some tough con Worms until I had to go."

...that's the way most of such groups end.

Lev 20+ , even more important lev 25+ in Qufim, you need a WHM to survive against very hard mobs like leeches (~200 exp per kill @ 25). Or you can kill 4 tough con worms in 20 mins with downtime for the same amount of exp.

I been in many really "perfect" groups w/o a whm ... once around lev 18 in Dunes we had black mage, warrior, paladin, samurai and a bard - but no healer. After 30 mins of hanging around we decided to break up and go looking for party each. Like 10 mins later, all people were grouped in parties with WHMs and made good exp.

Often it's better to disband an incomplete PT and give the members a chance to find a spot in a good group.

And one thing that makes me mad: I choosed to be a BLM. And not WHM - if I wanna be the main healer in PTs, I would be a main WHM (doh!). So please stop to abuse BLM/WHM players as healer substitutes. Nothing more rude than invite a BLM/WHM into a 4 man PT and promise to look for another healer - and then filling the group with a random melee. What would a monk say if he wouldn't be allowed to brawl? What would a ranger say if you forbid him to shoot arrows? A BLM is made for nukes, please respect that :)
#21 Jan 18 2004 at 2:23 AM Rating: Default
I cant help but notice that majority of the people claiming you dont NEED a WHM in a group play LVL15 and below characters.
#22 Jan 18 2004 at 2:45 AM Rating: Decent
***
1,847 posts
I feel that white mages can be filled in for, especially given how incredibly rare they can be at times. I've gone for hours without seeing a single white mage on Garuda. However in that time I've seen plenty of red mages. You work with what you have access to.
#23 Jan 18 2004 at 2:59 AM Rating: Decent
***
1,451 posts
Eh, I think White Mages are alot less important than some of you are making them out to be.

I'm a level 30 Red Mage....I have Cure, Cure2, Cure3 and Regen....I've been the sole healer in many groups fighting ITs all over the game. We had no problems.

White Mages are ok, but their absence is not reason enough to break up a group.

Fred.
#24 Jan 18 2004 at 3:04 AM Rating: Default
*
121 posts
Looks like I opened a can of worms here. :-P Let me emphasize that we had left a place open for healer(s) and we were actively looking for one. I am not so stupid as to think that a party with no WHM can take on ITs. In fact, after each battle I would do a /sea all. Every WHM and RDM within level range was either too far away or already in a party. It is not the unwillingness to join all melee parties that irks me. It is the extreme impatience. People are unwilling to join a party that has a WHM YET. They would apparently rather sit around waiting for an almost full party than sit around in a group, searching for a healer and/or fighting tough cons for low exp.

Quote:
The answer is right in your own posting:
"We picked up a Pal/War and fought some tough con Worms until I had to go."
...that's the way most of such groups end.


Actually, those people sent me tells before the Pal joined the group. And, in fact, we did quite well against the worms. We had very little downtime as the worms didn't take much off of us and the Pal would throw a cure as needed. We were also aware of the wights and only fought worms outside of the entrance during the daytime.

And I would have to disagree with whoever said melees should be picky. #1, most melees (especially thieves) have a VERY hard time finding parties. #2, mages may be in the back, but they have FAR fewer hitpoints and defense than you do. If they get in a bad party they are worse off than you are (ie. melees can (note the can) have the HP/Defense to make it to zone if something goes wrong). Yes, melees depend on healers, but they depend on you just as much.

Anyway, the whole point of my rant is that people should quit being so damned impatient. It sometimes takes forever to find healer(s). So, you have to be willing to join a party without a WHM (making sure they leave a space open for one) and DEAL with it.
#25 Jan 18 2004 at 3:16 AM Rating: Decent
Re: "It is not the unwillingness to join all melee parties that irks me. It is the extreme impatience" - DesertRoze

I couldent agree more. From what ive found the best and most patient people often have strong backgrounds in playing MMOGs like Everquest. Those who come from Asherons Call backgrounds are often highly impulsive and impatient. My guess is it has to do with the types of gaming experience each provided and encouraged.


Re: "And I would have to disagree with whoever said melees should be picky. #1, most melees (especially thieves) have a VERY hard time finding parties."

You are overlooking a very important issue, as pointed out above.
Melee types often have trouble finding groups, which as a result makes the exp they do gain from grouping all the more valuable. Which means that the melee type is going to his/her exp more than those who can easily find groups and will be less likly to want to risk joining a n00bie suicide squad and loose 100-500xp from poor group dynamics.

Edited, Sun Jan 18 03:25:58 2004 by Abyssus
#26 Jan 18 2004 at 4:49 AM Rating: Default
*
183 posts
This was my PT tonight:

All 25-26

WAR/MNK (Elf), SAM/PLD (a Taru, no less), RDM/BLM (Hume), BRD/WHM (Elf), THF/MNK (Mithra), WAR/MNK (Elf)

We all went up two/three levels. We were Kahzam, chain two or three Madgras (T to IT) then take out an IT Smithy or an Ivory Lizard. We had a few 260xp kills, most hovered around 200 (in chains). The Other WAR/MNK would cast defender and use sword and shield. I would use Berserk, Eat a Mithkabob, and use H2H (on top of my latent +STR items).

The funny thing is, I haven't had a WHM in my group for a long time - maybe 5 levels. I keep having to build groups from scratch, and we never get a WHM - people start off skeptical, but then they see how well it works. It's great. I think having a Taru WHM would spoil things now... Too easy. :)

(Level 29... I can't wait to be PLD)
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 101 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (101)