Common Myths of FFXIFollow

You think it's bad for a WHM? Try being a THF in a group like that. They won't play in a manner that lets you get your specials off, then they yell at you for missing them. If you're a THF and get in a group like that I reccomend just disbanding from the party because even if they listen to you, within 3 or 4 fights they'll be right back to their original retarded antics. There is a reason why you don't see many thieves above lvl 30 and that is because trick attack makes things 100 time worse for us and 90% of the groups you're in will be completely incapable of assisting you in getting your specials off. So you go up a few more levels and finally just give up in disgust and switch to RNG or NIN with THF subbed because being THF just isn't fun anymore thanks to all the tards.


I'm getting close to giving up THF myself, I'll give it two more levels and if it the level of retardedness doesn't change (it's somthing like 90% right now) I'm switchig to RNG.

Edited, Sun Jan 18 18:54:13 2004 by Lobivopis

Few notes on boost.

I have heard that boost adds to your attack the equivalent of half your monk's level every time you boost.
So for example, level 20 monk boosting would add 10 to his attack power each boost.
Yes it stacks.
The increased attack only counts for the first attack you make after your last boost.




Im really starting to believe that the radius of the bomb is calculated as soon as bomb toss is readied, not when thrown. Last night I fought goblins from 26-29 (yeah, 3 levels in one day, woot) and I was the main tank (ninja).

I had a japanese guy with me too, he was a ranger, and he has a few 60 lvl jobs, I know because when there would be a goblin train in Kazham he would change to 65 thief and go kill them all.

So I asked him about this, and he said that yes I should run away when they toss a bomb. Well I can't tell you how many times I would take off running far away every time he'd be tossing a bomb at me, and it wouldnt matter how far I ran, it would hit me and all the people engaged in melee around it. The white mages were a good 15 feet away (for just such purposes as avoiding sleep and bombs)
This is even when he's tossing it at me, most of the times he was tossing at me anyway because I would usually have agro with provoke.
Sometimes the ranger would get agro right before a bomb toss, I'd see him run away also, and I didnt notice anything different. No lessened damage, nothing out of the ordinary. So I really dont think it helps unless you are able to run away before it starts readying it. I havent tested that.

I also tried moving in closer to him when he would bomb toss, and this seems to do nothing in the way of making it drop the bomb more often, as some people have said. The only things that seem to make him drop bombs and suicide are
1) Pure dice roll. (Ex. 1-20, goblin drops bomb, 21-100, bomb toss succeeds.)
2) Stun or Paralyze, I have seen these interrupt bomb toss. The goblin will start shaking like it always does, then it gets stunned or paralyzed and stops, and continues swinging normally. There is no bomb toss.
3) Seems like 'alot of damage' weapon skills do, but it may just be that these times the goblin is getting the "1-20" roll and dropping it anyway.



If you have two tanks, both should provoke every 30 seconds. Have one provoke first, then the second one provoke 15 seconds later. That way provokes are 15 seconds apart and damage is split up between both tanks equally. The monster will never run around either.But if you have a thief in the party, be sure to stand next to the other tank and not on the opposite side of it. This makes it much easier on the thief.

No, hate doesn't work like that. For every attack, provoke, and buff/cure that player gets a certain amount of hate from the mob. Think of it as "hate points". It's not like everquest where provoking automaticly puts you at the top of the mob's hate list, the only thing that matters is how much hate you have generated. Therefore if you "save" a provoke you are in reality wasting it because you just threw away all the hate you could have generated by provoking now and then again in 30 seconds, etc.

When the tank is provoking constantly the mob will never run for the mage in the first place because the tank has built up enough hate that the WHM's cures will never exceed it.

Also, holding back on provoke will you booted from parties once you get past level 30, particularly in parties with thieves. Once I got to around lvl 32 I finally got out of the ****** zone, tanks that don't jam down the provoke get told to either get with the program or leave the party.

Edited, Mon Jan 19 02:06:11 2004 by Lobivopis

Not to mention when the monster starts running after the mages, it interrupts any renkei your party was starting to pull off. I've tanked in 90% of my groups as a Drk because warriors don't do their jobs correctly, I'd certainly take a weakened class that knows how to tank than a Paladin that let's it's enemies run around like a chicken with his head cut off.

Exactly! I'm playing a DRK as well, and have allready had to deal with "Unable to see <t>" because the goblin or whatever decided to run past me at the mages before my swing timer was up ;_;

I'm going to try partying with 'newbies' a few times, and see if through leadership I can train a few warriors how to do their job ^^;

I have to disagree with the whole provoking every thirty seconds
1. If you keep aggro all on you and it uses its special move then no one can provoke of of you to save your life.
2. Using one tank method cause white mage to spend whole battle using cure 2 instead of being able to use any cure 1's.
3. Cure 2 casts close to the same amount of hate as a provoke will so it kind of nullifys the whole provoke aspect.
4. With using chains of cure 2 and then using Benediction the white mage will always get more hate cause the mob lost all the damage it did to whatever character and will decide to get rid of the mage to make it's work easier.
5. GM's have the ability to control mobs if they want to for some added fun and if they are in control they won't use the hate system no matter how bad you want them to.

That whole chain provoke is just another of the myth's that this post is talking about.
And you call us noobs?
edit for spelling

Edited, Mon Jan 19 12:44:03 2004 by Hellspawnd

Wow, this post has made me laugh some. Well I guess I will adress bombs first. Gob bombs "work" like a spell, as in you can interupt it. Several abilities, and magic can accomplish this. Shield Bash, Weapon Bash, Leg Sweep(spear ws), Tachi Hobaku (GKatana ws) Stun(magic). The common thread here is ALL of these cause the moster to be stunned. Regular ws like fast blade, or guillotine for that matter wont interupt unless it kills.

Next, the provoke every 30 seconds, ok whoever said that is bad IS a noob, or they are seriously confused. The mob runs off of hate, and hate is cumulative. So by provoking every 30 seconds you continually build hate, and if it turns on the mage that means the mage has more hate than the tank and another provoke should beable to restore the balance. I know this for a fact. At hgiher levels you only have one tank, and noone else will provoke regardless for the most part. So my groups tank was provoking away every 30 sec, spamming cures(he was palading) and using flash, out comes cure IV from the WHM(twas desperate) little do we know that the pal got dc, so mob turns to mage, pal isnt provoking, so I use provoke(DRK/WAR) mob doesnt even look at me, even tho i have been racking up hate thru heavy damage all fight. Another char uses provoke (sam/war) and still nothing, whm dies, we cry, kill it and whm uses that o so important re raise. Bottom line is constant provokes keep the mob on the tank longer, rather than turning to the mages every 10 seconds. Also never in my expeirence of game play have i ever heard of a GM controlling a mob, much less experienced it. What prob happened was your whm got too much aggro and provoke werent enough to regain enough hate, like posted above.


I admit that this game is riddled with myths and paradox's but to assume only makes an *** out of u and me. Learn what are myth and what are fact. (cant wait to get flammed by the noobs haha)

43DRK/29WAR/15SAM/13THF/6WHM/10MNK

Hear hear!

I laugh at this.... so very hard....

In all my groups. since 30 we have had no thief. Thief is great if you are looking for items, other than that nothing special. I like how you put BLM under support. lol. ya thats what a blm is for..... support... lololololol

here's my static pt since mid 30's.

1 PLD
1 DMG Melee (DRK / DRG)
2 BLM
1 WHM
1 BRD

We rock things, hard. There are a number of many good combos. but beleive me, a thief is not a necessity like the poster seems to think. (Although for parchment camps and things of that nature they are irreplacable if you want to spend minimal time camping it.)

If you haven't seen a THF in action since lvl 30 then you haven't seen sneak + trick + Viper Bite. And once he gets Dancing Edge and stacks it with trick and sneak he has the highest damage from a single attack of any class. In addition, while ranger can dish out more damage than any other class, only THF can do a mega damage attack and have the tank take all the hate for it. If you have a THF in the party the mob will stay latched onto the tanks even after a benediction.

And yes, a BLM is support, RNG and SAM both do more damage, and what's more they don't die after two hits.

Having lower-level characters in your party does not decrease EXP for the person highest in level. Square-ENIX even said so in public, to stop the rumour mill. You can check the guide section here on Allakhazam for the exact formula and numbers : based on the experiments of some japanese group, I think, and they've proven to be accurate for me.


Correct on all accounts. To put it simply - job traits that have the same name don't stack, but job traits with different names do, even if they do roughly the same thing. Spells always have different name than job traits, and thus spell effects always stack with job effects.

(As a second analogy, it's kinda like when you're a WHM/RDM : you get Cure from both jobs, but you don't get a double Cure : you do, however, get both Barpoison and Barpoisonra.)


That's just the animation. Also, keep in mind that the movement isn't 100% accurate, so the server doesn't even know you're standing exactly in front of the bomb arm : when you move, your client only generally tells the server how you're moving, which is why people may appear in slightly different places to different players, and why you see people on your screen jump from place to place when you lag.

The Goblin Bomb toss is, for all purposes, a spell : and like any spell, it CAN be interrupted, simply by attacking it before it's done casting (like, within the first 70~80% of time it's standing still before tossing it). Note that attacking it DOES NOT MEAN YOU AUTOMATICALLY INTERRUPT : like any spell, it has an interruption CHANCE. Stun, like Agenorjj noted, does, as do other disabling spells like Sleep, or Paralyze, if you're lucky enough to have it kick in at just that moment.



First off, like has been said, you should -always- provoke. Provoking "when it switches" is inefficient : if you provoke all the time, it never switches in the first place. Every time you provoke, your Hate/Enmity counter goes up a bunch : there is no limit to this, you gather Hate even if you already hold the most. White Mages, Black Mages and so on should never go over the Hate the tank holds : they have to hold back if this happens, basically making 'em work below optimal conditions. Not a good thing.

Second, about the splitting-damage thing : if you have significantly more DEF than the other tank (say, PAL/WAR versus a DRK/WAR : the Paladin will have a slur more DEF), you should ALWAYS hold hate. This will save your Healer from having to cast a slur of extra Cures because the weaker tank takes extra damage, and thus keeps down his hate, saves his MP, and altogether decreases downtime. Also, having only one tank means that only one tank has to be buffed : having to cast spells like Regen several times does drain a lot of MP. Don't worry about your health bar : it's your healer's task to keep you alive, and it's easier for him to spam-cure you than it is to switch between the two tanks all the time. A final thing : when monsters use skills, especially the high-damage skills from Sheep, Goblins, Quadavs, Pugils and Bats and such, the tank HAS to be very high in health : and healing two tanks enough to keep 'em very high in HP is more costly than doing that for one. If the healer is sure that the main tank holds more Hate than the secondary tank, he can slack off with the secondary tank a little bit.

However, that doesn't mean the other tank can just sit back idly. For one, a good idea is to have the second tank pull monsters, so the healer doesn't have to jump right to curing the puller (and thus gather hate even before the battle really starts) because it's "just" the secondary tank, and he won't get hit once the actual Tank provokes it off him. Also, the secondary tank can Provoke enough to stay close behind the actual Tank during the course of the combat : this way, if the Healer has problems keeping the Tank's HP up, the secondary tank can take over for a moment. Tricky, but useful.


Wrong. Monsters don't generate hate by dealing damage, monsters generate hate by how much damage players do, and the skills/spells they use.


Wrong. The total damage/second a monster does doesn't decrease when you have it switch between different tanks, so a WHM will still have to heal the same amount of damage/second to keep the tank - probably more, because the secondary tank takes more damage than the first one. So since the heals/second remains the same, the cure-to-cureII ration stays the same, too.

And, like I said - when monsters use high-damage skills, the tank HAS to be very high in health, so if it's not sure which tank 'll be the one to receive the damage, the healer can't have one tank "slack off", forcing him to keep them both cured to the maximum.



If CureII generated as much hate as Provoke, White Mages would die quite a lot more than they do now (and PAL/WHM would become by far the ultimate tank, for that matter). CureII generates a lot of hate, but if you were to fire off a CureII and Provoke side-by-side, the Warrior will be the one the monster goes for.

Either way, I don't see how what you said would be a point IN FAVOUR of not spam-Provoking - if CureII generated so freaking much hate, why would you want the Warrior to provoke less and thus generate less Hate? Unless the Warrior provokes all the time, the WHM can't get off his CureIIs without drawing the most hate.


Nonsense. Monsters don't "lose hate" for a player when you cure them - it's that Cure itself generates hate, and by Cure2'ing a lot, you'll gather more Hate than the other players did. And since Benediction is equal to casting a dozen Cure II's, it's freaking IMPOSSIBLE for the others to gather enough hate to save his life.

And again, I fail to see how this would be in favour of having the Warrior NOT draw as much hate as possible. If the Warrior was to provoke for ten minutes before the WHM used his Bene, it wouldn't switch because the WAR generated an even more insanely high amount of hate.


Again, total and utter nonsense. The GMs don't mess with your playing experience, and especially not in such a petty way. Yeah, sure they could warp you to Bahamut, or warp Bahamut to you, or just have you drop dead where you stand, but they have a job to do, and Square-ENIX 'd just fire 'em if they pulled stuff like that instead of doing it.

(Geez, where the hell did you get this rediculous crap from? Is your Linkshell feeding you these lies just to ******** you, or something?)



First off, that's like saying "Red Mages shouldn't heal, because White Mages have more MND". You need to look at the situation.

There isn't a one-to-one ratio between parties and Paladins, and parties with "merely" a WAR tank can't go without Provoke. Sure, if there's a PAL/WAR present, then they would probably be the tank, and thus should ALWAYS provoke. But there's plenty of exceptions to this - if there isn't a Paladin available but another tank job is, or it has sub-optimal equipment compared to another party member, or there's a NIN/WAR that wants to blow money on those uber-tanking Ninjutsu, then those would be the tank, and thus should ALWAYS provoke. It's not "oh, you're not a Paladin, you can't tank" - you need to distribute the tasks based on your party members.

And like I said in this post, Provoke won't instantly cause a monster to switch, so any secondary Tank should keep track of how much hate he gathered, and provoke whenever it falls too far behind the main Tank.



--

Shiit, this post is too big for it's own good. ><

[EDIT]


Never seen a good BLM in action, I gather. A BLM with a good grasp of elemental strengths/weaknesses and skill at Magic Bursts can deal roughly as much damage as a RNG or SAM : but it has spells that extend the usefulness of a BLM beyond just nuking the monster. The disadvantage of a BLM, however, is that it has to sit to regen, potentially causing a bit extra downtime.

Edited, Mon Jan 19 17:37:38 2004 by Urakh

If you're the MAIN tank then you should ALWAYS provoke every 30secs, if you don't, i kick you or or petition the leader like crazy of how bad you are, the POINT of a main tank is to take damage, not to spread the dmage to other LESSER tanks unless it is NEEDED like you're HP is in the red, it' wastes more MP and downtime to spread the dmg b/c the main tank doesn't hold aggro well. I have played with only 1 lvl30+ war that refused to provoke every 30secs and he was the main tank. His name is Cloudsix on Garuda. Everyone just about hated him but being in east altepo, we kept him as long as until we find a replacement and booted his butt. He wouldn't even provoke when the puller came back.

I don't think people were arguing that if there's a PALD and a WAR in a PT that the WAR should always provoke also, in this case, yes you probably don't even need to provoke unless the pald is taking so much hits that he may need a breather for the whm and himself to cure. If u have that pald main tanking, then go ahead and use berserk, but cancel it if u take hits.

This isn't a moot thread.

Wrong, a THF can not utilize its damage unless facing the back of the mob along with a trick partner(plus sneak and viper bite) for a THF to do a mega damage blast.

Therefore when u say having a THF in the party will make the mob latched onto the tank is false , the trick partner will be the one getting the hate after sneak+trick+vipe bite. And also, *NOTHING* will take away from a whm's benediction hate *UNLESS* a PLD use it's 2hr.