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#1 Jan 16 2004 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
to fight the lvl 40 BCNM do you need a full party of level 40? or is 40 just the level cap on it. i have a lvl 30 war and was wondering how much higher i had to be to fight one.
#2 Jan 16 2004 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
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40 is the lvl cap and the lvl of the monster. You will also need 40 beastmen seals to enter in the fight.
#3 Jan 16 2004 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
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These mobs, from what I hear, are much higher than the level caps. You would want a full party of level capped players with a good, diverse, mix of jobs. You will also need a good strategy to bring them down. Good Luck when you fight!!
#4 Jan 16 2004 at 8:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Trust me when I say that you want everyone to be at least 41 or 42 when you go in so that everyone has maxed skills. You'll delevel to 40, but at least you won't be lacking in areas you otherwise shouldn't be. Don't even bother going if you're not level 40 yet. You'll need lots of other things besides levels such as potions and drinks. (which costs a LOT of money)
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#5 Jan 16 2004 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Expound on that. What types of potions? Also, what kind of group and strategy should you employ? I'm planning on doing the Giddeus BCNM very soon (phalanx hunting!) and I heard I need a BLM with ele. sealed Sleepga for crowd control. I'm a rdm, so I imagine I'd be debuffing like a fiend, and I'm sure I'd need a whm to keep the guys standing. I'm thinking a PLD/WAR as a tank, a DRK/WAR as a damage dealer, and the last spot possibly a DRG, PLD, or THF (for a better chance of phalanx ??? I dunno ... ).

What would you recommend? Since my skills are perpetually all capped, I'm not worried about getting a couple extra levels first (I'd need new equipment since my centurion gear would be dated and I will need it for the BCNM), so any tips?
#6 Jan 17 2004 at 2:10 AM Rating: Decent
LS just did the BCNM 40 tonight
had
52monk/war
53pally/war
51pally/war
48brd/whm
49rdm/smn
48blm/whm

all using lvl 40 gear
tanks ate mithkabobs
mages drank yag drinks
all 2 hr were used in first 2 min

beat it
no spells dropped
#7 Jan 17 2004 at 5:52 AM Rating: Decent
My advice is to give all your money to your bard, so he can be decked out completely and stuffed full of the most expensive foods. The key is to keep your bard alive at all costs, he's the most important - he is your tank essentially. Plan it out completely, down to every last detail. I did one of these haphazardly, like "oh, this will be fun" and got utterly destroyed. All the mobs woke up before I could recast AE sleep and I was raped. Soon after that, everyone else ran for the entrance and zoned out. Your bard dies, you die.

Things you should definitely have are a bard and paladin. A monk is also very helpful because of Hundred Fists. If there were a 40 summoner floating around with all his summons, he could probably be very helpful with his two hour. My fight didn't last long enough for me to give an accurate description of what to do, just what not to do. Don't let your bard die.
#8 Jan 17 2004 at 6:53 AM Rating: Decent
I posted this in a different thread, but I think it could be useful here too. :)

"Here's some more stuff that's cool about BST.

They're almost essential for BCNM fights. (I've talked to a few high lvl Japanese players about this). BCNM fights must be done with a party of 6 (no alliances!) The BCNM has (I forget the exact number) something like 4-6 mobs in the burning circle with it. So one of the best (if not THE best) ways to do this fight is to have beastmasters tame these mobs and turn them against the BCNM. I've heard from numerous high level players that the ideal party for a BCNM fight is 4 BST, 1 WHM, 1 PLD, or 3 BST, 1 RNG, 1 WHM, 1 PLD.

Oh, if you dont know what a BCNM fight is...it's a Burning Circle Notorious Monster. All those beastmen's seals that you dont know what to do with go towards fighting these. There is BCNM 40, 50, and 60 (that I know of). The number (40, 50, 60) refers to the number of beastmen's seals you need to do the fight, as well as the level cap for that fight. The reward if you win? Mad loot. ^^

And just an interesting fact...on Midgard, the record for defeating the dragon at the end of the Dragoon quest is 1 min, 3 seconds. The owner of the record? A lvl 65 BST who soloed the thing with his Funguar. The Dragon didn't even touch him. Hehe.

Anyway, BST is a cool job people! Try it out! :)"
#9 Jan 17 2004 at 7:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Giddeus BCNM has 8 mobs. 1 is a Black Mandragora and the other 7 are regular white mandragoras. The BST is essential for the Palborough BCNM because it has something like 18 worms to fight. Giddeus REQUIRES a bard basically. You can have a BLM to sleepga but he only gets one ES per 10 minutes so at most you could have 2 since the time limit on BCNM fights is 30 minutes. You'll need Yagudo drinks and poison potions to avoid sleep and must keep the Black one silenced at all times or he'll cast Flood and kill your tank.
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#10 Jan 22 2004 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I think I've come up with a ninja method to win this. I'm a RDM and I need phalanx desperately, so I'm targetting the BCNM in giddeus. My plan is to set my main to Monk (lvl1) and my sub to RDM. Then I'm going to hook up with a WHM buddy and through invis/sneak ninja my way to the BC. Once there, I'll disband the party and submit the orb. If I get the wrong answer at the prompt, I'll just suicide (as if THAT would be difficult) and get warped outside to my waiting raise so I can do it again. Notice: there will no xp loss, so I can continuously zerg this thing until I get the right answer.

My question is this: if your party (in this case ME) dies in the BC, do you have to wait for the 30 minute timer to expire to get kicked back out, or is it automatic when your whole party dies? That may make things difficult ... if it doesn't work, could I just solo in with my 42 RDM and if I get the wrong answer just exit out (i.e.: do you start the encounter aggroed, or is it like the dragon where you enter the battlefield? and if you exit manually do you lose the orb?). Also, does your class affect the drop? If it does (i.e., red mages get Phalanx, white mages get Erase, etc), then I may need to do the latter method ASSUMING I don't go in auto-aggroed so I can escape to try again (or else I'll just go in with stoneskin/blink/shell2/protect2 and hope I can click the exit fast enough, lol).

Any further information would be greatly appreciated ... I have an orb and I want to burn it for my phalanx try tonight (if I get erase I'll just sell it for funds to buy phalanx ... I hear it goes for a ton of money).

I'm hoping this can be scammed, because out of six days of trying, I still can't get a balanced group together to try it ... most high levels will only do it if I turn over the Erase/Phalanx scrolls to them, defeating the point of doing it FOR the Phalanx scroll.
#11 Jan 22 2004 at 3:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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airspirit, I really don't understand your theory. What exactly are you planning on doing again? Are you talking about BCNM 50?
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#12 Jan 22 2004 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
Could a regular well-balanced party kill the BCNM 40 with any difficulty? Say all level 40+ with a PAL, SAM, DRK, WHM, BLM, BRD?
#13 Jan 22 2004 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm talking about BCNM40. When you go in, I hear that you have to choose between three boxes or something. One of the three gives you the prize without fighting the monster. The idea is either sneaking in at a low level and suiciding if you don't get the right choice, or going in at a higher level and exiting the battlefield if you get the wrong choice. Another thing I didn't consider: do you get this choice every time you go to enter (if previously defeated or you exit the field), or only on your first try?
#14 Jan 22 2004 at 5:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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You are talking about BCNM 50. BCNM 40 requires you to defeat all monsters before winning.

And there is no way to "cheat" BCNM 50 like you say because you only get one shot at opening the chest. If you zone out, your battlefield time is up and your Orb will no longer function. If there was a way to cheat like this do you think Phalanx would be worth that much? Also, IIRC you can only get spell drops in BCNM 40. BCNM 50 loot are class specific rings.

There is no need to take a level one to try the 50. Just buy a Scroll of Instant Warp and if you pick the wrong box, warp out.
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#15 Jan 22 2004 at 7:50 PM Rating: Decent
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So all the reports of BCNM40 giving you a choice are wrong? Lots of mixed up people then ....
#16 Jan 22 2004 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
my LS has now done 6 BCNM

out of 6 we have died twice because we tried something diffrent


this is our best way to group for it
PLD/WAR
PLD/WAR
BLM/WHM
RDM/BLM
BRD/WHM
MNK/WAR

we still dont have phalanx but have had 3 erase drop

its not something you can throw together
you have to have a group of solid players and you cant cheat it.
we take 2 hours just to get set up for one of these.
alot of players wont see this won because of that.
#17 Jan 22 2004 at 8:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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To clarify, there IS a BCNM where you pick from three chests, but this is BCNM *50*, not 40. If you want more information on specific drops, try checking out Killing Ifrit.
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#18 Jan 23 2004 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Okay, then: I'll just bite the bullet. Even if I get erase dropped I'll just sell it to buy phalanx ... that isn't a worry at all. What I've tried to arrange is that I provide the orb, but I get any spell drops: the rest of the group (pick up group) can lot on the rest among themselves and I'll pass on it all. I think that's perfectly fair since I'm providing the orb and rewarding them for the risk, but many high levels insist on getting the spells if they do it ... am I being unrealistic with that?
#19 Jan 23 2004 at 3:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Unrealistic? No. Unfair? Yes.

The spells are why people go to these things. If you're saying you're taking all spell drops and they can have what's left, aren't you taking way more than your share? After all, you can't do it without whoever is helping you. /shrug
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#20 Jan 23 2004 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess that is the question: if I'm providing the orb, why shouldn't I get the choice loot, especially if it directly pertains to my class? I could understand if I was just going along on someone else's orb how it would be unfair to demand anything ... why shouldn't it be the other way around?

It would absolutely suck to cough up the seals for the orb and go down, win the fight, and get nothing to show for it while someone else in the party got the spell that I needed and bought the orb to get. I think that would be completely unfair.

Since the other loot in the drop besides the scrolls normally totals up to over 60K, 12K per person involved isn't too bad of a score for one fight, is it? Especially considering that they didn't have to cough up an orb for it.

And yes, I also have made it clear that if they wanted to bring an orb as well, I would help them clear that too with no claim on their orb's loot.

Another thing I was thinking, assuming it is okay with them, was to go into quartermaster mode and either distribute the loot (or it's gil equivalent) after the fight OR sell it and fedex them their cash once it all sells. Of course, this would depend on whether or not they want to do it that way, though I've gained a very good reputation on my server so ... I dunno.
#21 Jan 23 2004 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I posted this in another BCNM thread ... maybe you guys can help as well->

Okay, I have a question: is it possible to sleep the Black Mandragora with either bard sleep or ele. seal/sleep? Further, is it possible to silence the Black Mandragora with either silence or ele. seal/silence? If so, I imagine this fight could be a bit easier. Since I am a Red Mage I'd have to change your method a bit. I'm thinking WHM (duh), RDM (me), BLM (sleepga and backup healer, hehe), BRD (bard sleep and ballad for the mages), PLD (gotta have a tank), and DRK/DRG for a damage dealing class (maybe ranger if I can find one). This would leave me with one provoker, but three people that can sleep (and two rounds of elemental seal XD) and four-five that can at least spot heal in case things get wonky. I'm thinking that the tank/s should both be kept with barwater courtesy of me (capped enhancing) and that may help them survive the flood cast/s (if unsilencable).

Do you think that would be a valid method of doing this? Alternatively, I could swap the DRK/DRG/RNG for a BST and between us keeping the other asleep just let him sic the other mandragoras on the black one before we do it.

I understand you did it the other way, but would it be possible to do the black one last if it is possible to put it out of commission? I would think it would be safest to face it when there are no other potential threats.

I also noticed that you said in that thread that you had to get another orb ... does that mean that if you lose the fight you lose your orb??? I've always read that you keep it if you all lose.
#22 Jan 23 2004 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
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BCNM40=Waste of time and money.
#23 Jan 23 2004 at 6:06 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Okay, then: I'll just bite the bullet. Even if I get erase dropped I'll just sell it to buy phalanx ... that isn't a worry at all. What I've tried to arrange is that I provide the orb, but I get any spell drops: the rest of the group (pick up group) can lot on the rest among themselves and I'll pass on it all. I think that's perfectly fair since I'm providing the orb and rewarding them for the risk, but many high levels insist on getting the spells if they do it ... am I being unrealistic with that?


LOLOLOLOL yeah you're unrealistic. Fact is, you wouldn't be able to do it without them, but they could certainly do it without you. Beastmen seals aren't that hard to comeby. Sure, people don't have enough to simply exploit the system and eat a death trying to get lucky with the chests, but you think just because you provide the orb, you should get first right on spells?! LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Absolutely /boggle
#24 Jan 23 2004 at 6:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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"Okay guys, I get any 400k spells. You guys get 12k each, sound gewd?"

Yeah that sounds fair. But if you can get people to agree, then props to you. I don't see why you wouldn't put Erase into the lot pool since you can't use it.

The sell and distribute method is what my friends and I decided on because although we have a lot of WHM that would like the "status" of having Erase, it helps everyone more to have money to buy better equipment.
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#25 Jan 23 2004 at 7:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Okay, I have another "interesting" idea. What would happen if the WHM had reraise? If things went horribly wrong, before the last person died the WHM could suicide, quickly reraise, and cast sneak on himself (they aggro off of sound). Next, he would raise the BLM, then between tractor and raise get the rest of the PT on their feet and degimped before less than 10 minutes have passed, then you take another try at it. I guess you CAN'T reuse the orb if you lose completely ... this may be a method to try if you've killed one or two of them and then bit it ... you could go for a retry (racing the clock) with the enemy already weakened. Anyone think this may be workable in a loss situation? I'm not sure if there is a safe place to regroup in the battlefield, so I don't know how feasable this is ... I am hoping to knock these out on my first try and would like to be fully equipped to do it.

As for equity, I was saying I would do what it takes to get my phalanx scroll. If, for example, both phalanx and erase drops, then erase would be free game. Maybe I have a different way of looking at things ... I'm looking at it from a "per need" and "per contribution" point of view. If, afterwards, they wanted another go on someone else's sphere, I'd be more than happy to help with whatever conditions they choose to attach. In fact, I think it would be an efficient thing do blast through this once for each person ... but that's just me. I think anyone who says they would gladly provide an orb and get no more out of it than the rest who are saving their seals is being disingenuous.

Edited, Fri Jan 23 19:48:25 2004 by airspirit
#26 Jan 23 2004 at 8:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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<Even if I get erase dropped I'll just sell it to buy phalanx>

The only reason I said what I said is because you said this earlier. :)

As for what you are suggesting in your last post:

I will start off by saying that I've gone through four or five BCNM attempts and failed in all, mostly due to the simple mistakes of one or two people or because we wanted to test a theory without a bard. And this was with a group of friends playing in the same room. >< The closest we got was killing the black and I think two whites. Although disappointing, we learned a good deal and are probably going to try again this weekend since Yagudo drinks are really cheap this week. So while I speak from experience, I speak from dead experience. lol

Reraising: I always went in with Reraise BUT it's MUCH more helpful if all classes have a scroll of Reraise. People have gone in and failed because they simply could not kill everything with the amount of mana and drinks they had in the time limit. So just having your WHM with reraise isn't neccessarily enough. If our Bard had had Reraise in our most successful attempt I wouldn't have had to spend 150 mana to raise him mid battle. The same went for the tank that die to Flood after the first Silence wore off.

Trust me, if things go horribly wrong and your white mage isn't dead in the right area, he/she will just die again because I'm guessing that reraising makes noise. My husband died at the back of the burning circle and the mandragoras were a good distance away. He reraised and they all came back and agrroed him. In another try, I ran back to the entrance and died on the bridge. I reraised myself with no problems. As for raising and tractoring the entire party back in under 10 minutes, I'd say that's a little optimistic. I guess you could do it by carrying a bunch of ethers on you, but I think its highly unlikely you'll find enough time to raise everyone back and have enough time to kill the rest. Your best bet is to reraise yourself while the battle is still going on to keep trying. But if your whole party is dead its safe to say it's over.

Also keep in mind that you have to kill 8 mobs, all considered at least Tough at level 40. So depending how well you did before the sh*t hit the fan, its still going to be tough going when your PT is all weakened.

It's important to keep everyone in a tight circle so that the bard can Lullaby all of the mobs. EleSeal Sleepga does work, just not all the time. And if you're taking a stranger bard, ask if he/she has Mary's Horn.

When you come out you'll still have your orb, but you can't use it again. Also, once you leave the battlefield you can't go back in.
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