Why the WHMs are gone :: World of Warcraft

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#27 Jan 16 2004 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent

Lobivopis

Thief's Knife

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1a) Wars provoke to often and at random, so they do not provoke when mobs go after mages

No offense, but that last part is like, really bad advice. WAR should provoke the instant provoke recharges. This isn't EQ, provoking doesn't put you at the top of a hate list, it increases the amount of hate the mob has toward you. If you provoke often you build up enough hate that the WHM's healing will be less likely to exceed it and it'll be less likely to go after the WHM at all. By the time WAR reaches the mid 30's if he's not jamming down the provoke button it's going to get him booted from the party because it's going to get the WHM very dead. (this is also why THF becomes so valuable, THF can put so much hate onto WAR that the mob will often ignore a benediction)

Edited, Fri Jan 16 15:00:46 2004 by Lobivopis

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Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
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I thought of it first:

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#28 Jan 16 2004 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent

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I agree the that MAIN tank should be provoking every 30 seconds.

IMO though, Sub tanks should really hold their provokes off until either:
A.)The Main Tank's HP is going red
B.) The Main Tank has lost aggro and the mob is heading towards a mage
C.) It's needed to help a thief pull off a Sneak Attack/Trick Attack.

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#29 Jan 16 2004 at 3:43 PM Rating: Decent

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For the most part, I've never been treated badly by a party. Part of the reason is I try to surround myself with intelligent LS members as often as I can, but even other times, I've never gone through any of these horror stories that I've heard. Mistakes and deaths do happen from time to time, but luckily, most people don't bicker about it. For the most part, I feel grateful and priviledged to be part of parties I've joined.

Binsa, Taru LV31WHM/LV15BLM/LV13BRD, Bastok, Alexander

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#30 Jan 16 2004 at 4:56 PM Rating: Default

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Whms are gone because a lots of english speaking people playing FFXI are ungrateful bastards :) I can't say much for the french, japanese and others except I understand the few words "Thank you" other than the occasional "???? you you slow son of a ?????" from the english players and yes, that's how it's displayed on my chatlog in the game. Guess they do have SOME censorship ^^

And the bit of scraps parties aren't bad if you know how to fine tune it. Scraped one at lunch early last week. I was the only whm with 3 melees, somehow we were able to get 3k exp during the lunch break ^^ Just need to educate ppls I guess, I find pallies are more willing to listen than the other classes. Drks are pretty sympathetic to whms too since they have to control their dmg as much as we have to control mp ^^

I have only ditched 1 person from all my parties, and that was Blacktigr, but everyone else will learn AFTER you explain a little. Just beware of those that watch TV and play at the same time -.-

Whm thumb of rule:
1) If there's someone you don't like (ie. from rudeness, etc...) let them know. If it's reasonable, the majority of the party will be on your side. Heck, I even had the a friend of the idiot on my side.
2) Do random good deeds, if your party is afk or something, randomly heal people or cast protect or some other protective spells. It will increase your enchancing skills and it will build your reputation ^^
3) Reputation, when you are a whm, you are like honey to bees, when you are a whm with a good reputation, you are like ambrosia ;)

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#31 Jan 16 2004 at 5:40 PM Rating: Default

Lobivopis

Thief's Knife

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I agree the that MAIN tank should be provoking every 30 seconds.

IMO though, Sub tanks should really hold their provokes off until either:
A.)The Main Tank's HP is going red
B.) The Main Tank has lost aggro and the mob is heading towards a mage
C.) It's needed to help a thief pull off a Sneak Attack/Trick Attack.

No, he shouldn't, because otherwise he'll have only the hate from standard attacks and that may not be enough to exceed the hate that the main tank or WHM has drawn. If he provokes and his hate is low because he hasn't been provoking during the fight it's quite likely that one provoke won't be enough to exceed the hate that the WHM or main tank now has and the mob will just ignore him.

Once again, this isn't EQ and provoking doesn't put you at the top of the mob's hate list. It's all based on how much hate you have drawn vs other party members.

And you'll never need to pull a mob off THF after sneak + trick because the hate goes to the player THF was hiding behind and not THF. this is why THF is so important after LVL 30, he can put so much hate onto the main tank that even a benediction won't pull it off.

____________________________

Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:

Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.

I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20

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#32 Jan 16 2004 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent

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Leveling my WHM up to 32 has been rather difficult as compared to leveling my bard to 30 for the sole purpose that, in the end, the WHM is the leader of the group and controls the speed at which the group is able to accomplish leveling. Not many tanks realise that not only does the WHM have to keep them alive, WHM's also have to adjust their technique to accomodate the amount of MP that "should" be left over after a mob.

For example, Im level 27 in Kazham and the only healer in the group, (One sub healer [BLM]). Considerind there is a nuker and 4 tanks and after fighting 3 mandra's and ending the exp chain with a Gob, I conclude that I should have 70-80% MP after one mandra, rest for most of the second, and have 90% for the gob. I announce this to my group, because, as stated earlier, the WHM is the leader...always.

YOu will know if you have a good puller if they state "will pull whem healer says to" or if the puller acknowledges the WHM command "Do not pull until i say to". If your a group not containing a WHM, there should be a primary healer (like a primary tank). A RDM for example will be the primary healer in a group consisting of 2 subhealers (i.e. any character whose sub job is either WHM or RDM) Thus the primary healer should take over the leader ship role as a WHM does and command when it is ok to pull.

Of course, youll get morons in your group that deserve a slap
<t> got SLAPPED!

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#33 Jan 16 2004 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent

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Let me say this:

THANK YOU WHITE MAGES!!! :) (and any anyone else who can heal my butt)

Without you guys, I'd be constantly laying on the field somewhere being nibbled on by some wandering sheep...

Personally, I have never ever blamed or yelled at a white mage (or anyone for that matter) for dying. Ultimately, it's part of the game. Sometimes things go bad. :) Just like in real life, deal with it. It's a game, it's supposed to be fun. When you get pissed, you not only take the fun out of it for yourself, but for everyone else in the group.

As a tank, it's my job to keep the hate on me. Even if I'm on the verge of dying, and the mob is going after the casters, I will provoke. It's sad to see so many tanks out there that don't realize that in a party, when the stuff hits the fan, it's the tanks job to die. That means, that the tank stay and keeps the hate while you tell everyone else to run and zone. Come on tanks, it's our job! Be a soldier!

And... if you're a puller, be smart. Don't pull unless you first check the mob, and second, check the MP of your casters. Sure, when you've been in a group for a while, you know when to pull without asking. But if you're not sure... ask. They'll appriciate it.

Anyways... enough rambling.

Healers, thank you for doing what you do.

Edited, Fri Jan 16 18:18:45 2004 by Vylen

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#34 Jan 16 2004 at 6:30 PM Rating: Decent

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Ahrel said..

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have yet to have a group where heaven forbid red mages heal as primary

At level 18 (which your sig says you are) the RM can heal just as well as if not better than a WM simply because the red mage has fast cast while the white has divine seal, Divine Seal is useful at times but Fast Cast is a passive that is constantly active. The RM will have lower mind but at that point its mainly cure not Cure II that is being cast due to neither person capping Cure II, at higher levels they can't compare at dune levels its perfectly fine to have an RM as main healer only problem is lack of poisona.

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#35 Jan 16 2004 at 7:38 PM Rating: Decent

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I'm a BLM and I've grouped with many different WHM. We have never had a WHM leave our group for not healing fast enough or resting for MP. We did have many Melee Tanks who would run off and start provoking before either the WHM or myself had restored our MP. We would explain to them to watch the Mages MP and make sure we have 75% or more MP before they tried to provoke a mob. We had one Warrior provoke a mob and then another provoked an IT mob and he wasn't the primary provoker. What ended up happening and everyone followed the Primary Warrior and killed the MazeMaker, while the WHM tried to keep the other Warrior who provoked the IT Mob alive. We did attack the IT mob and killed it, but it was a bit to late and the fool who provoked the IT mob got killed trying to disengage and escape. He eventually disbanded without saying a word. Can't say I blame him since he had already died twice before from running off and provoking mobs while everyone else was healing. LOL!! We ended up grouping with a Samurai and got about 4000XP the rest of the way with no deaths. Like it's suppose to be.

WHM's are critical though. My sub will be a WHM first. If I ever group with people who complain like the group the original poster had to deal with, I'll just disband. We had one WHM leave a group of 2 MNK's & 2 Warriors. He wanted to group with us because his best friend was in our group. The group he was original in were a bunch of noobs who were arguing all the time and he was getting tired of it. They weren't too happy when he left.

Xander

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#36 Jan 16 2004 at 7:46 PM Rating: Default

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For instance, last night I was in the dunes
(the pit of all evil),

LOL. PREACH ON BROTHER! Problem with the dunes is it is a veritable melting pot of all the good and bad players in the game. But rarely is it uninteresting.

Sorry that was off topic, just glad to see someone else feels the same way about the "Dunes"

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#37 Jan 16 2004 at 7:53 PM Rating: Decent

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Luckily Gilgamesh (my server) seems to have just the right balance of whm's, we actually might have too many :). If were lucky, we'll have 2 on any given night. It's a godsend to have 2, the chaining doesn't stop til it maxes at chain #5, then you rinse and repeat.

Anyways, back to the orginal post. As a rdm, heck as any player of this game, there is never any need to take grief from anyone. When you are 'unjustly' cursed at, politely explain your side of the story. If their willing to listen, good you can hammer things out. If their not willing to listen, disband, politely if you can.

As a whm, and loving it since my other characters a soloing rdm, I've only run across this kind of incident once. And it was with a warrior that didn't know when to stop pulling. So after the 3rd time we saved his hide with the help of benediction, my friend and I politely left the party with a made up excuse of our "LS" calling us away. Wouldn't you know it, 10 minutes later the party is calling for raisier for their...mmm dead warrior.

We actually went back and regrouped with the rest of th party as they were good souled people and helped each and everyone of them level that night. Those people are now on our friends list. :)

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#38 Jan 16 2004 at 9:56 PM Rating: Default

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The white mages aren't gone, they've compiled a handy list of great group members on their friend list.

I rarely go to a open group unless it's by referral of a current PT member. Snobbish? Maybe, but I haven't died or had a party member die in almost three weeks

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#39 Jan 17 2004 at 12:05 AM Rating: Decent

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Unfortunately way too many warriors don't know how to use provoke. As a level 30 warrior and now a level 23 Paladin I have met too many warriors who will provoke a few seconds after I do.

Provoke recast time 30 seconds.
Tank provokes, 5 seconds later warrior provokes. 30 - 5 = 25.
So for about 25 seconds no one is able to provoke to keep the mobs attention from the mages. (In this game that is more than enough time for a mage to take a dirt nap)

Even worse is when they start asking me to provoke soon after because they cannot take a few hits. If they do it more then twice to me even though I ask them not to I will let them die.

2 signs you are in trouble as a mage;

If the puller uses provoke to pull,

If a warrior provokes 5 seconds after the tank does.

Players who exhibit the above behavior will slow the party down or get someone killed.

Titanicus
23 Paladin
30 warrior
15 Monk
12 Thief

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#40 Jan 17 2004 at 12:50 AM Rating: Default

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Note beforehand I'm a RDM and low level (19).

I think the lack of WHMs, at least on my server,
is because a significant amount of people treat
healers like crap, and don't understand the aspect
of healing. I have seen this happen to a significant
amount of WHM, myself, and some RDM.

For instance, last night I was in the dunes
(the pit of all evil), and the puller pulls
an IT pugil when my mp, the other RDMs mp, is 1/2 full.
The tank, a paladin, starts cursing at me when
he is dying, and I have 0 mp, and I'm resting
to try to save the rest of the party,

Right after that, I use up nearly 1/2 of mp casting
protect and shell on everyone, then sit down to rest.
Immediatly I hear, "pulling pugil!" without even a
warning. Tank cursed at me again as 1/2 the party is
nearly dead and I have 0 mp.

Normally I would have disbanded, but we were getting
decent xp and the rest of the party was cool. I didn't
have a problem with the puller because I asked him
to please watch my mp before pulling, and maybe we
should stay away from pugils, and he was cool with that.

So then the tank decides he's the puller for now on
and orders me to debuff, then immediatly start resting
to get mp back on all further mobs. So he then
pulls two IT flies, I debuff, and I start to rest
because the other RDM is healing. Well, the paladin
didn't provoke (warrior sub) and the other RDM
casting was interupted, and the paladin curses at me again
because I was resting. By the time the other RDM was nearly out
of mp I was back at full, and saved everyones *** because
I actually had mp. (Honestly one person did die, but only
because he was poisoned and died before the spell hit him.)
I still think that is pretty decent for two IT mobs.

It would be one thing if this was a novice, but it was
a paladin; rank 3. This isnt even an isolated incident,
this stuff happens all the time. People also dont understand
that while you're resting their is a 4 second delay
to get up and start casting.

I think I'm switching to blm to avoid dealing with these idiots.

Just a bunch of noobs who have no clue how to play. Just ignore them man. You usually get to know the group after a few battles. If I sense that a few guys have no clue what they are doing I usually just leave the party. It’s not worth the trouble of putting up with them. On my server I have joined these groups and tried to tell them what they are doing wrong. 99.9% of the time they are so ignorant they will argue with you like they are doing things just fine and its you who are the problem or will say you are just whining. They cannot fathom that it is them who are compromising the group. You should not only leave the group with these people but black list them.

An example. I was in a group with a white mage and a summoner/whm. We were in the crawlers nest and having trouble pulling w/o links. So I ask the summoner to pull with carbuncle so they don’t add on us. The white mage immediately says "wtf you talking about, I have summoner and you can’t pull w/o links" I try to explain you can and how it works. But the white mage will hear nothing of it. I see this same white mage in Jeuno a couple days later, and I /say to her. "so did you ask around about the summoner pulling yet" she then goes to shouts saying that I'm a noob and everyone hates me and she will pay people to help get me killed in groups. :) Sadly this is why I turn down most NA groups now. 99% of my fellow NA's are like this and I am ashamed to be known as one of them. I try my best not to group with them now :(

I don’t know if you guys have noticed or not but it also seems all these ignorant idiots are friends with each other, most know each other and hang around each other. A lot are even in the same linkshells.

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#41 Jan 17 2004 at 1:12 AM Rating: Default

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As a WHM I have to say very few people are rude to me, well apart from not answering questions. Pretty funny when I leave and they start begging though.

One of the secrets of being a good WHM is that you have to be assertive. Once you join a group you have to findout information so you know what to do. Eg main tank, who is puller, how hard a mob are you going to be fighting etc. If no one answers then leave.

The one thing that I hate the most is groups with no dmg dealers eg 3 wars 2 whm and the lack of food use and bad armor.

Unfortunately I couldn't make it past Qufim and have been questing, cooking and fishing for the last 3 weeks.

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#42 Jan 17 2004 at 2:25 AM Rating: Good

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I got sick of WHM, which I was originally going to take up to 60 to get the summoner avatars. At around 30 I just got so sick of it. Bad pullers, bad tanks, terrible parties, and you're the one to take the fall usually, because you can't just stop healing them and run away to save your own ***. "Oh, we need a whm" is what people usually say when they're putting together a group. They don't put much thought into the fact that having a WHM isn't a license to go ballistic pulling as fast as humanly possible. This leads to the second very annoying part of the job - you have to be the daddy of the group. As a decently leveled WHM you begin to understand what makes a balanced and cohesive party... then you have to lecture every single party you come across. They don't know how to skill-chain at lvl 25? You have to teach them. The tank doesn't know how to be a good tank? You have to tell him. The tank-healer relationship is so key to the party that if it fails, the party will no matter how many damage classes you add. It drags on you to have to move every party by its balls to get anything done, because you know what they are capable of as a class.

You can start to just leave groups because of your safety. I've done that before in groups where I knew that I'd die within 20 minutes of being with them. We get elitist because we know what works and what doesn't. In turn, you get flak for leaving because you're a "******* stuck-up whm" and have to deal with that also.

Listen to your WHMs, and treat them right people. They might just change jobs because of all the ******** they've accumulated throughout their time playing and change jobs. It's only fun as a WHM up to a point, unless you're a glutton for punishment and sadomasochism. Try leveling a WHM up to 30 and then ask yourself why there's a dearth of them around. It's not that much fun being the fall-guy for every single idiot that joins any of your parties, then complains to you about it.

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#43 Jan 17 2004 at 2:34 AM Rating: Good

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Tho im now killin off any chance of ever findin a group with a WM from Gilgamesh who reads this erm... White Mages are more of then not played by retards. Simple fact is if youre a thief and are moronic you might get a group but will be kicked quickly, if on the other hand youre a WM and are a complete muppet you'll nearly ALWAYS find a group no matter how good/bad you are because everyone needs them, it's a shame really but there are several WHMs Ive spoke to who admitted to me they were only WHM cos theyd always get invites no matter how bad they really are.

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#44 Jan 17 2004 at 2:42 AM Rating: Decent

bodhisattva

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20,674 posts

One reason i really feel for WHM is the spam. If your lvl 25+ you better be /anon or your gonna get spammed non stop. Then again spamming is non stop anyways.

I was in group out in Qufim the other day, the group lacked a healer and the guy running it was kinda of a goon. He decided to start spamming all the WHM in the region asking for them to group, begging the ones that were in group etc.

Finally one of the WHM go off on him and tell him to leave him alone, the leader of group starts trashing the WHM and calling him Noob, whiner, jerk etc. I told him maybe he shouldnt bother people for no reason. Its not cool.

I played Necromancer in DaoC and had people bugging me non stop for Power Leveling or money. Sure a person might only ask once but if you get 10-15 people asking a day you get fed up and ******* I remember that my Necro got bugged a record 30 times in 3 hours one night so i switched over to my lvl 17 Paladin knowing i would be left alone. I get message 5 min later from lvl 10 person asking if i would PL. I got ******* told person no, person started begging, i told person to leave me alone, they didnt, i talked to the persons head of guild and ended up getting the person booted from guild. I was Angry. Did i prob goto far, maybe but damn. I love helping people but you have to remember that WHM your bugging for a raise or to party with you might be doing something else or trying to get his stuff done. I do my 1 good deed for someone everyday but thats it.

Edited, Sat Jan 17 02:43:46 2004 by bhodisattva

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#45 Jan 17 2004 at 3:11 AM Rating: Decent

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Have any of you WHMs run into the problem of announcing your MP (out of habit or macro) and have the puller respond "So? I don't care." ?

I was in a group where the leader/puller/tank kept on responding to me about that. It was a good group and I leveled 3 times in about 2 hours... but the way that the leader kept responding, towards the end of the 2 hours, I had enough hate built up I was about to pull out my staff and go agg on her. I ended up quitting the party in the end, despite the exp. Even if she was monitoring the mp, there is a nicer way to respond than that.

I thought it was just her, but several groups later I get a similar response from another warrior...
WHM DO get treated like crap sometimes :(

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#46 Jan 17 2004 at 4:05 AM Rating: Good

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My advice would be to get into a LS with good solid players that you can depend on to do their jobs, who play at around the same time of day you do.
I never lack for a whm, or a good party.

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#47 Jan 17 2004 at 4:44 AM Rating: Decent

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I believe that every player should give being a WHM a chance even up to just lvl 15 just to see how hard it can actually be sometimes. It's the reason I chose WHM as my first sub to my Monk, so that I could do and view things from the healer's shoes.

Obviously the guy you were with was not a Newb as much as everyone is saying this, cause you clearly point out that he was a paladin in the teens and rank 3, he should have been playing long enough to realize these things. I believe you encountered the same thing as me recently, someone with a big head, who thinks that just because they've attained an elite class and so on and so forth, that they are better and know better and believe that you can meet their needs and demands.

I wish all WHM the best of luck and I personally plan on staying a Monk/WHM until I max out my Monk, Maybe after that I'll work on my WHM maxing.

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#48 Jan 17 2004 at 5:05 AM Rating: Default

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I think there's more to it however. In order for all groups to have a white mage in them, 1/6 of the game would have to be white mage as their primary class. With all the advanced jobs, assuming an even distribution, 1/15 the game is white mages. Once the next expansion is realeased, this ratio will be even worse. Even if you throw Red Mages in there as healers just 2/15 the game is healers then. This is made worse by the fact that many players who try white mage either find it boring or they have experiences like the one you described.

On my server, in my level range at least, it's not that bad. ('Though you won't find any WHM with a flag up long!) I'd say a good 1/7 of all early levels are white mages. When you get to advanced jobs, of course all of the beastlords, summoners, and most rangers solo (but are also almost non-existant), so that's about 1/20 of the population who just won't count against the healer-count. You have of course WHM; also, PLD who can get along nicely with most RDM, BLM/WHM, or SMN/WHM; BRD/WHM, and RDM/WHM if you're desperate. I'd say still about 1/7 of the "grouped" characters can properly heal (including PLD + secondary healer situations), so it's not as bleak as you make it out to be.

Still. Be good to your healers(!!) and they'll be good to you. (And don't mind the pie-smell.)

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#49 Jan 17 2004 at 7:52 PM Rating: Default

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Kaylan, how is playing a WHM hard? Stand at the back and hit your cure macro selecting the tank 90% of the time, cast protectra/shellra every now and then, erm... erm... nothing more to it really. I'm sayin that having played main healer in enough parties as a RM which is a much harder job as you have more than one job unlike the WHM (heal, enfeeble, nuke, melee)

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#50 Jan 17 2004 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent

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Ya ive seen how sometimes whms are treated poorly due to for example, someone dying. Me though i almost always act as main puller for the party cause im very experienced in watching mana lvs and what we can and cant take at our current strength. Normally what i do is hunt for something to pull and when i find it check the mana levels. If their high enough then i pull. If not i wait till they reach a pt where its safe then i pull knowing the time i take to walk back then they will be full or close to it in mps and we are able to keep a very nice chain going. Ne one that has partied with me knows how good i can pull and how well we can chain. I switched to whm for a bit due to the severe lack of em sometimes on my server. Havent experienced much party play with it yet due to only beign so low level but as a war and now dragoon it pisses me off that some people treat whms so bad, when they know without the whm he wouldnt be alive and this high in level. So the drama continues...

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#51 Jan 18 2004 at 5:32 AM Rating: Decent

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Kaylan, how is playing a WHM hard? Stand at the back and hit your cure macro selecting the tank 90% of the time, cast protectra/shellra every now and then, erm... erm... nothing more to it really. I'm sayin that having played main healer in enough parties as a RM which is a much harder job as you have more than one job unlike the WHM (heal, enfeeble, nuke, melee)

Playing both Paladin and White Mage back and forth I must tell you It's MUCH easier playing the tank. Hell half the time I'm not even touching the keyboard when im tanking. All i do is provoke.

As a WHM i have to make sure my entire party is healed up. I'm constantly switching though my F1-F6 to heal, remove poison, remove blind, regening on top of casting Dia and Paralyze on the mob.

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Why the WHMs are goneFollow