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Being a good pullerFollow

#1 Jan 15 2004 at 12:57 AM Rating: Decent
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78 posts
I was wondering what makes a good puller. Is there something that a person has to know? What kinds of monsters do pullers normally grab? Is there some class that makes a better puller than others?

I want to be able to use my lvl 30 thf/nin to be a puller for groups because I always feel like I'm not contributing enough. But I feel that if I start pulling things for the group I might grab something too tough or too weak. How do you judge what's a good mob to pull? Just wanting some advice for those of you who have had experiance doing this. Thanks =)
#2 Jan 15 2004 at 1:20 AM Rating: Decent
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74 posts
First of all, u must try to understand the party configuration our party currently has, then u will know wat of of mobs to pull ( for example, if u are in qufim, doing clips/pugs might be easier rather than acros if u dun have a blm). If u are still unsure, ask ur party leader's advice on wat to pull and wat u guys can handle.

Second thing is to ctrl+c to check wat the mob cons to u b4 pulling.

Have fun!
#3 Jan 15 2004 at 2:07 AM Rating: Decent
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227 posts
The number one, most important thing for a puller to learn is avoiding aggro and linking mobs when bring a mob back to base. Learn to judge distances and anticipate when two or more mobs will or will not link. Learn to avoid aggro mobs there and back, and learn how close or far from a mob you can get before aggro. These are the most important aspects in my opinion.

As for what to fight, let that be decided by the PT composition and the PT itself. If I'm not the PT leader, before I start pulling I /tell the leader and ask what he wants to pull, both type and strength. Also, realize that "IT" does not always mean the same difficulty level. Something IT can be 8 levels above you or 28 levels above you, big difference. So know your area! Since you're thief, if you're not already using one, I'd suggest a boomerang for pulling to save on ammo and gil.

That's about all I got. I personally love pulling, so I hope you have the same luck I've had!
#4 Jan 15 2004 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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364 posts
Houk is quite correct in my view about this. Personally, I would rather just XP chain stuff then pull IT types if you are vary about being able to take down that mob (Lacking nukers, people cannot/will not Renkei, problem players). Better safe and slowly getting XP then dieing and having to re-level.
#5 Jan 15 2004 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
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389 posts
If you have a good group, an effective strategy is to pull Tough and Very Tough mobs until the fighters have built up lots of TP. Then pull an Incredibly Tough mob and unleash a massive skillchain.

When pulling it is nice to use a macro to let people know you are pulling.

Something like:
/p Incoming <t>!! <call14>
That will let your party know what is coming and play a little bell to let them know the fighting is about to begin.

Your responsibility as a puller is to make sure the group is fighting mobs fast enough to get EXP chains. This is what separates the good pullers from the mediocre ones. As soon as the mob the party is fighting dies, you need to be running out to get the next one. In my groups the policy is keep pulling and pulling until someone calls for a break (usually the Healers because they are low on mana). In some other parties I have seen the policy that the puller needs to look at the casters' mana and make the determination himself whether or not to keep pulling. Either policy can work, just be clear about who decides when to rest from the onset.
#6 Jan 15 2004 at 12:32 PM Rating: Decent
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491 posts
personally as a mnk i dont get to do much tanking unless a THF is in my party distributing hate to me from trick attack so many times i ask to pull, since the puller should NOT be part of the provoking party if possible. A few tips are that one key thing would be the highest lvl player in the party should almost always pull considering the XP you get depends on what they "check" the mob at. Also i sub drg whenever i am puller so i can use "Jump" and pull from a distance. ^_^ man thats fun stuff.
#7 Jan 15 2004 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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243 posts
1. Know you group. Don't start off with any ITs. Take on toughs and VTs for a bit while you are learning the dynamics of your group. (ie how they work together, how well they listen, how they are at skill chaining, etc.) This is very important as group that doesn't fit together good will result in negative experience, long rest time, and wasted time.

2. Bring a long range weapon with you. It doesn't even need to hit the mob you are pulling. It makes it so much easier to pull what you want when other things around that may be aggressive. Take note, watch for linkers...you can't try pulling a gob when two are next to each other...they will link!

3. Know what you are fighting. Keep in mind that ITs are AT LEAST 8 levels above YOU. So, if you are 18, and everyone else is 15, you probably will not last through an IT.

4. At my level right now (lvl 19), I find that the mages can keep up with a VT at 100mp. For ITs, they may/may not need more, but that goes into knowing what you are fighting.

5. Pay attention to your path running to the mob to pull it. Usually, it will be the same path coming back, but you should be aware of mobs that link/aggro.

6. Know what mobs to go grab on EXP chains. If you are looking at 6 mobs, 5 are tough and one is IT, definately take out the toughs first. Nothing is more rewarding than annihilating the 5 toughs, experience chain them, then taking out the IT and obtaining 300 exp on the kill. You definately can't do this the other way around and it would be much harder (as the IT will kill the mages' mp.)


As a THF/NIN, I think you would better serve the group as a damage dealer rather then a puller. Leave the pulling job to the PALs and WARs as they are the ones that are meant to hold aggro.
#8 Jan 15 2004 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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69 posts
All those things posted above are pretty accurate.

Quote:
When pulling it is nice to use a macro to let people know you are pulling.

Something like:
/p Incoming <t>!! <call14>
That will let your party know what is coming and play a little bell to let them know the fighting is about to begin.


I would amend that macro to this:
/p Pulling <t> in 3 seconds! <call2>
/wait 3
/ra <t>

The /wait is just in case there was a misunderstanding and someone isn't ready, you can move so you don't shoot.
Carry a boomerang or a bow for ranged pulls. DO NOT lock onto target when you do this, instead rotate camera angle so you are facing yourself, after you fire ranged weapon, turn and hightail it back to group.

As a thief, I love pulling because I am guaranteed my first Sneak Attack will hit without running around like a maniac while WAR's play Hate Ping-Pong. How? Because I stop before I get to the Provoker and let him Provoke the mob who conveniently goes around me and after WAR, thus exposing his rear facing to me so I can Sneak. Tah DAAHHH! And yes, it takes a few tries at explaining this to the tank, and then a few run throughs, and then 150+ dmg and everyone is onboard.

Lastly, I didn't see this mentioned anywhere but IMHO, Provoke is one of the worst ways to pull. It's easy to outrun the hate you get from provoking so the mob stops chasing you. If you do damage to pull, you will get chased til you either kill the mob, die trying, or zone.

Edited, Thu Jan 15 14:28:52 2004 by Nugsie
#9 Jan 15 2004 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
I have been a WAR pulling for 30 levels or so, and I must disagree with Provoking being a bad strategy. Most times, the areas people like to go and level at are tremendously camped, and if you don't use provoke, you aren't going to be pulling jack.

With the delay it takes for a ranged weapon to fire another parties puller can come in, provoke your target, and run off before your shot can even fire.

I will admit, sometimes I use ranged weapons when my group has an area all to themselves and time isn't so much of a factor, but I would have to say a truly good puller, knows a few ways to get the job done, and utilizes them all considering the surroundings.

That being said, I like provoking to pull the most. I've never out run hate. Though I've seen it happen to others. You really gotta ask yourself, if I have to run half a mile to find this creature, and half a mile to get back to my group, is it really worth pulling? Chances are when you kill it, your chain will be broken, or by the time you get back to the group you'll be pretty well beat up. So distance from the group is another big factor to consider.

Here's something off topic, but have any of you pullers been in a really dedicated group for like 4-5 hours, and all the camera perspective spinning, constant running, and stuff kinda gets to your head? Guess that's a good sign to quit... but I never pay attention to it. Heh.
#10 Jan 15 2004 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
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486 posts
Follow all of the posts above and you'll be a great puller. Just thought I'd add my two cents ^^.

When I am pulling for a group, I differentiate between different mobs based on how much hp/mp the group has.

For example: if the mob i'm about to pull is only tough, I will always grab and then let the group know on my way back. "/p incoming tough pug"

If the mob i'm about to pull is VT, I will do the same thing as above (e.g. /p inc vt furrier) UNLESS someone in the group has <1/2 health or a mage has <1/2 mp. In that case, I will always say "/p vt furrier on command". Then, as soon as the WHM says ready, I pull and say "/p incoming".

(It could be the WHM or the party leader, I typically wait for the WHM to give the go ahead.)

If the mob is IT, I give the "on command" message and wait for the go ahead no matter what, just in case someone is about to afk or something.

Using this method the group never has a nasty surprise coming.

#11 Jan 15 2004 at 3:38 PM Rating: Decent
I pull as a BLM because it gives me the chance to stack one of the 4 or 5 debuffs I use during a fight first. When I pull something and bring it back, someone vokes off me and it gives whichever casters are there to cast whatever spells they want on it before the healing starts. If I get whacked once or twice I just drain the HP back and I usually get it all.

But anyways, to be a good puller:

1. Make sure the group understands that you are the one and only puller. I've grouped with mad max types who all want to pull something they see, and they'd all meet back with 1 or two mobs apiece and, well, DEATH.

2. Be cogniazant of where thinigs are spawning and how much time is left before you can expect to see them again. For example, if you're fighting in Ghelsba, be aware that the camp you cleared out and are pulling to may have a respawn during your fight, so either find an area that doesn't have a cluster of agro/linking mobs, or make sure to wait a few minutes to clear the respawn before fighting.

3. Pay attention to when people say 'afk' or 'brb.'

And then don't pull.

4. Don't get exp hungry if you find yourself at full health and see some mob just begging to be pulled. Wait for your healers, or they'll make not not to group with you again.

5. Try not to use provoke as a pulling method, especially if there are only 1 or 2 vokers in your group. Pull with something, anything else, because if the mob starts hating healers early in the fight, you could be in trouble.

6. Don't watch football games while pulling...it's a bad idea.
#12 Jan 15 2004 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
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1,369 posts
There have been many good suggestions in this post, but I would like reiterate that please tell your party what kind of enemy you are pulling and what it cons to you. Maybe make a few macros depending on the strength. (Maybe use one for tough, one for very tough, and one for incredibly tough.)

A mage's tactics vary depending on the strength of the mob. An IT warrants every enfeeble in the book, a tough does not. Also, that will let the red mages in the group know what en- spell to use when they are helping with the melee, and the nukers to know what kind of spells to get ready with. Lastly, the white mages will know how much attention you will need when you get back. Can they rest an extra click or two, or will their healing efforts be needed right away.

And please listen to your mages, especially the main healer. So many people are so busy pulling to keep the chain going that they do not care that the WHM has no MP to keep everyone alive. Being the main healer is stressful enough as is.

Here is a tip for the non-pullers. One thing that I like to do when someone is pulling is to keep pressing the function key for that party member. That way I can start tracking the puller in some cases before I see him/her. (That way if he/she needs a regen, I am ready for it.) Something that people in the groups waiting for the puller to come back should remember.
#13 Jan 15 2004 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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212 posts
On a related note, how should pullers deal with magic caster mobs that stop and cast spells at you instead of chasing you? e.g. Gobbie leechers
#14 Jan 15 2004 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
The thing about pulling with Provoke is that it doesn't keep the XP chain going and you can lose your chain by the time you get back to camp. If you use an actual attack or spell, the chain will continue from the point the mob was pulled, not the point the first attacker hits it back at camp then you can rack up the xp. Also be aware that to get XP chains the mobs must be Tough or higher. Doing Even Matches or Decent Challenges will not create a chain, although they could probably be a first mob of the chain.
#15 Jan 15 2004 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
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364 posts
PavingMantis wrote:
I have been a WAR pulling for 30 levels or so, and I must disagree with Provoking being a bad strategy. Most times, the areas people like to go and level at are tremendously camped, and if you don't use provoke, you aren't going to be pulling jack.

With the delay it takes for a ranged weapon to fire another parties puller can come in, provoke your target, and run off before your shot can even fire.

I will admit, sometimes I use ranged weapons when my group has an area all to themselves and time isn't so much of a factor, but I would have to say a truly good puller, knows a few ways to get the job done, and utilizes them all considering the surroundings.

That being said, I like provoking to pull the most. I've never out run hate. Though I've seen it happen to others. You really gotta ask yourself, if I have to run half a mile to find this creature, and half a mile to get back to my group, is it really worth pulling? Chances are when you kill it, your chain will be broken, or by the time you get back to the group you'll be pretty well beat up. So distance from the group is another big factor to consider.

Here's something off topic, but have any of you pullers been in a really dedicated group for like 4-5 hours, and all the camera perspective spinning, constant running, and stuff kinda gets to your head? Guess that's a good sign to quit... but I never pay attention to it. Heh.


That is why I am less then 5 steps to my bathroom to pray to the porcelain god just in case.....:)
#16 Jan 15 2004 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
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171 posts
lokyst, I've dealt with a lot of those casting mobs, like leechers. The trick to pulling those is to run to your party and past them a bit. What you have to do is get outside the mob's casting range and then it will follow you. So, I run past my party to get the caster mob to run to almost the front lines, then I turn around and run back at the party. This way, the mob will be right at the meleers, ready for fighting without stringing out the camp.

Note, this doesn't work so well if the mob tries casting bind on you on the way back.. :/

Edited, Thu Jan 15 16:32:57 2004 by mpa
#17 Jan 15 2004 at 6:26 PM Rating: Decent
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78 posts
Thanks guys. This is a lot of good info. Some of it I already knew, but it is nice to see it verified by other people. =)
#18 Jan 15 2004 at 6:26 PM Rating: Decent
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78 posts
Thanks guys. This is a lot of good info. Some of it I already knew, but it is nice to see it verified by other people. =)
#19 Jan 15 2004 at 7:21 PM Rating: Decent
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318 posts
So far, my favorite method for pulling has been Dia...unless of course, there's an elemental around. It's fast and can be done from a distance.

The problem I have with provoking, is that you have to get too close to the mob, and the puller typically takes damage on the way back to camp, which causes the healer to use MP before anyone's even attacking the mob. This is a waste of resources. Ranged and magic attacks can avoid this problem when pulling.

The worst by far is hit-and-run. I've run out of arrows as a thief (Yeah yeah should have bought a boomergang), and been told to pull hit-and-run...which I flat out refuse to do. It takes too long to disengage and start running, and why would a thief be better for that than a warrior, anyway? Send a red mage to Dia or someone to provoke if there's no other ranged options, but for crying out loud do not give the mob that much time to take swings at you before you get back to camp...the whm will grow to hate you, or you'll wind up dead.
#20 Jan 15 2004 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
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183 posts
Monster pathing sucks. You can use provoke and then run through some trees or close to a rock, the mob is bound to get confused and end up taking an inefficient path, thus widening you breathing room and making it hard for them to catch you before you get back at the party. I've "kited" a mob in Kahzam for a few minutes while our healer was linkdead, pretty funny.

Oh yeah, don't provoke and *then* turn around, be ready to run straight out when you provoke.
#21 Jan 15 2004 at 8:21 PM Rating: Decent
Lots and lots of good stuff here. Since I mostly play WHM, let me add a couple things from that point of view.

Learn how many "ticks" it takes you to pull. You want to time it so the WHM is just hitting full MP when you cruise into camp with your unlucky victim.

Start slow and work your way up to the VT's. Let the group get settled and gel before you hit the hard stuff. If you go to easy for too long, people will start to get bored though.

As the WHM I hate having to approve every pull. Just ask me what mana level I want for each thing. Typically it's 25% for 60% for VT and 100% for IT. If your WHM want's veto power on every pull, fine. Be sure to ask them how they like to handle it.

Do make sure to let me know how hard the incoming mob is and what it is. That really makes a difference in my strategy. Any other mages in the group will love you for it too.

<call14> is a pullers best friend. Remember the ppl in the party may be distracted when you pull. The ring will get them focused back on the game. <call1> gets old fast, but 14 isn't so jarring.

If you are getting messed up on every pull, ask for a regen right before you head out. By the time you get back, I can have that mana back easy.

If you notice the WHM casting on you as you head out, stop and wait for the spell to land.

Watch where you pull too. If the WHM has his back against the wall, don't crowd them. AoE's sting. As the puller, you are the one that can control where the battle line is. If it's tending to slide toward the whm (as it does when he agros stuff) try to move it back out on the next pull. If it's sliding too far away, tell the pt memembers to stay put when you pull and not run to meet you.

Know the area. It's great if you have been paying attention in parties where you weren't the puller, and you know the appropriate ITs for the group. If you don't know the area, ask ppl in your party if they do.

Pay more attention to the people with reservations than the ones who way "I think we can take it". "I think we can take it" are the famous last words of many a WAR. "I don't think this is a good idea" are the last words of the WHM in that party many times.

If you die, shake it off! Don't be a big whiner. Just say to your party "Well, sh*t happens, no problem." Nothing poisons a parties teamwork and morale like a someone who is pissed they died. If you don't want to risk death, there are plenty of bunnies outside the town gates that need killin'

If you over pull, don't come back to the group. They will be dumb and try to help you. Then you all die. If it's certain doom, zone, or just die yourself. On the other hand, you may be suprised what the party can handle. I have seen parties take 2 IT's in a row when they were on fire. The RDM put a bind on the add and everyone else pulled of a great skillchain on the first monster. Everyone's 2 hours were out, so we had to voke bounce the agro and the WHM was resting between heals. So if everyone has a lot of TP and the teamwork is good, an add isn't going to kill everyone. But if the teamwork is weak, TP or Mana is low, or the add is really bad, don't doom the whole party.

Your WHM will happily die for you (well, most WHMs). Return the favor if things go bad.

Good luck and pull well.
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