A good puller.Follow

I have a strat that ive been using in a few group and they have all loved it. But ive been in a few groups that would refuse to let me, a monk pull for them. I noticed when in a group and the battle is over I always have full health. Well, like really 90% of the time, the other 10% I may have got hit once or twice during the battle. The warrior is going out there, coming back half to 3/4 dead from pulling IT mobs, mages heal, he needs to provoke to keep hate from the time the battle starts to its end.

Im thinking thats such a waste of HP, for me. I thought, hey, why not me pull so we use my HP first. Im a monk, i have lots to spare. So i pull the IT mob back, on the way to the group I get hit twice so down a bit or up to 3/4 health. Thats fine though, as soon as i get too much lower then 3/4 health the warrior vokes and takes hate for the rest of the fight. Usually they dont need to voke off me, i never get hate. As soon as the war hits once he gets the hate always over me. From this point on in the battle the war vokes when whm get hate. White mages dont need to worry about healing me, they still focus on the voker(s).

So battle ends and mages have more MP. The group has more HP and we are ready to go again. I just think this makes sense. The parties ive done this with love it. We have like no down time, its one right after another, bang bang. And its very safe. Think about it. Try it.

i thought no skill went up when fighting that treant? darn..if id noticed any skill gains i'd be fighting him with everythign i had to get skill ups.

that's a good idea..unfortunately some warrs will want to do the pulling b/c they have more DEF. unfortunatley most of them dont have ranged weapon so they pull with provoke...which means they are pretty close to the mob and yes, often they come back with enough HP lost that they need a heal just to start the battle.

if only people would try new ideas...

I agree with Purple to an extent. The ranged weapon is a wonder for pulling in something without hopefully bring a few unwanted friends with the monster you are trying to get. Provoke pulling I have seen work with some people, and cause death for me/others. It usually comes down to the skill level/awareness of the puller. As for the puller being another person then the tank, it has been both good and bad again to have the setup that way. If you have a THF pulling, that tank best be getting that mob off of their back if you want them to live. MNK types seem to have a really hard time pulling because of the lack of ranged weapons and can take a huge amount of damage/die before then get back, but I have seen it done well by some. Usually with a "Provoke please!" spammed into my chat window.....:)

When I was levelling my War to 30, I always intended on going ranger so always had my bow skill at max. I found it very effective to pull and be main tank. I would pull using the bow, often hitting and building hate right away. As soon as I was back in the camp, I'd turn and provoke and we'd go from there. With the initial damage + the provoke, hate management was easier and let the BLM and damage dealers start hitting hard sooner. Generally, I would start running for the next one as soon as the mob dropped, usually with a cure II hitting me on the way out the door. Worked good except I often forgot to cast for treasure! It can be very tiring, though, as you get absolutely no rest.

[quote=Dhita]With uber-high hp and decent evasion - all a monk would have to do is stock up on lots of pebbles...
quote]

I have never seen anyone use a pebble at all. I think it would be funny as Hell to see it. Just like a little kid throwing something to get them to chase you...:)

Heheh I maxed out everything I had in like 1 hour. Only thing not going up too fast was parry, but then again I didn't parry it too often :P

Johari, you're neglecting the fact that Wars have better defense than you, and will thus take less damage from a mob. Since a WHM cure is going to heal the same amount on the both of you, it's more cost effective to heal a War over a Mnk. If your WAR pullers can't pull without taking a bunch of hits, well, they suck.

sorry double post by accident

Edited, Tue Jan 13 15:24:43 2004 by joust

Im a lvl 24mnk/10War. I can pull if need be but i dont like to.
On the other hand im great 'voker.

Usually im in group with 3 or more tanks. I find it helps to have people 'voke off tank whenever someone HP goes yellow, this way we all share damage, we all get a little hurt but no one gets hurt bad and the WM has easy time healing.

This method works greatfor me. Ive been in groups though that believed only one person should take aggro for majority of time and it ends up with battle over and that person almost dead or WM lacking MP.

I think monks are fine vokers and pullers ( i just dont like to pull but i love voking once combat has started to give tank a break).

I just hate people who have Provoke ability and never use it, they dont wanta get hit or its not there job to be main tank etc., the only way its okay to not use provoke is if you made decision to be mage/warrior then i might let it slide but then i would bug you for job/sub choice :P


Edited, Tue Jan 13 15:37:37 2004 by bhodisattva

It's not like you've found a way to "cheat" the system. Yeah, you might have some Extra HP to take some shots, but you're still going to need Cures, and the higher MP cost still applies. You certainly shouldn't be /healing between fights, as that drains TP. If you're group is organized correctly a monk should rarely take hits and never have to /heal.

As a War/Mnk, I can say that:
1. I've never had a problem with pulling and *keeping* the hate.
2. I've never had a problem getting back before the mod has done any (or serious) damage to me.
3. I've never had a problem being puller/tank and running an EXP chain to #4 (except where there are no mobs around)
4. it’s all technique, there's nothing magical about it
.

"I just hate people who have Provoke ability and never use it, they dont wanta get hit or its not there job to be main tank etc."

You're really not doing anyone any favors if you're provoking while the healer classes are able to stay ahead of the tank's hurt.

The person with the highest defense should ideally hold aggro for the ENTIRE fight. It's only appropriate to juggle hate amongst the Melee classes when either: 1. The tank gets down to orange. 2. The main healers are OOM 3. A caster took hate, and the Main tank doesn't have a Provoke ready. Even in those situations, there should be a "Provoke Order," normally in line from highest defense rating to lowest defense rating, and typically Monks end up near the bottom of that list.

I see it all the time, I'm the tank for the PT and I’m getting hit for say, 25hp a round. Suddenly, out of the blue a Monk will provoke, and start getting hit for about 30-35 hp a round. I tell them to cut it out, they're wasting MP.

Ok, laugh all you want, but I pulled too, and I am a whm >.<
Dia/Poison are the best pulling spell I find, since it's fast to cast and you can rlh :) (don't recommend pulling as a mage unless your group is extremely slow or you have a 2nd whm/backup healer). The best pullers I have found so far are thieves, rdm and drk. There are often times when we start the fight with the monster at 3/4 health just from the thief's attack (although very few can pull it out properly). The drks are my favourite pullers (if they know how to pull :P) I always leave the drk with about 350+ hp, but not max so they can pull with their drain :) You have no idea how much times I had full mp in the middle of the chain ^^ Rdm are excellent pullers too, they can take some hits (which they never do if they know what they are doing ^^).

As for the part about not provoking even if they have it. Yes, I hate it too (especially dragoons, damn, I am actually starting to hate that class... nuuuu >.<). I had a party where there was 2 whm and we both died. Cause
1) Warriors are too busy watching TV (kick them off the team if that's the case, the exp loss WILL add up -.-)
2) Dragoons are too much of a wuss to pull it even though EVERYONE but themselves are orange
3) Where monks/thieves think they are tanks and tries to keep the hate on them. If you are a monk, please don't pull, unless you are in an area where they do minimal dmg to you or you have 2 whms. (Divine Seal + Curaga = Free Ben ^^) A pally going yellow at 20 hp intervals is better than a monk getting hit for 50+ :)

And warriors, PLEASE, learn to pull. It IS possible to pull with provoke without getting hit once (in most cases, if it's a fast monster, then it's acceptable ^^). Most experience players knows the maximum range of the provoke, if you don't, learn it. While you see the provoke animation, start running already. The monster shouldn't be able to come CLOSE to you if you do this right. This is from doing it myself in the Valkrum dunes as a warr and watching my troops of little taru warr. pulling in Qufim ^^

One kind of puller I fear the most is the wreckless ones where they don't pay attention to the whm's mp. A head up to whms, if you see someone pulling with your mp low, just tell the party to zone and ignore the idiot. You will die otherwise :)

Lobivopis, how about a sneak attack and then flee to pull?