A Word on the Jacks, and Wasted PotentialFollow

Hello

Some of you might say this thread belongs in the Jobs forum, but I am posting here because this message is for all the NON-RDM's out there, and all the n00bs whome I have worked with recently.

I have been playing my RDM since November of last year, and have something to say. Red Mages are NOT just Backup Healers. Sure they often fill that Role, but they are so much more.

Recently (in Quifim) I have been told by 3 Party Leaders to "stand back and just Heal". Twice this was in an "Optimal" party (ex: 2Tanks/Vokers, 1 MNK, 1BM, 1 WM, and me).

My response both times has been "Ok, if that's what you want, but you're wasting part of my potential."

In an effort to keep this post short, and easily read I am going to note my points here, with little discussion.

If I have the right equipment I can hit fast, and often

My EN spells can do some Damage as the battle progresses

I can cast Cure Spells as well from the front lines as from the rear.

I understand that as time goes on I'll be forced more, and more into the backround as AOE's get worse, but at 20-30 I can help on the front lines . . and I want to.

I will rarely draw enough Agro to turn the mob to me, and even then I can take a hit or three

I understand my job. I backup every other class in the party (Including War). I understand things won't be this way in 15 levels or so. Once I get Refresh, and convert I shall stand back with the other Mages, and come into my own.

But all you Level 20's-30's Leaders out there . . . Let me do my job.

Thanks for reading

THat is why I put ""Optimal"" in quotations.

Everyone has a slightly skewed idea on the "Optimal" Party, and I just provided that rundown as an example of my recent experience.

It's been this way since level 20 . . . everyone treats the RDM's as a sub-par healer . . . A WM with too few MP . .

I mainly want the people doing this to understand that we have so much more to offer.

Granted there are PL's out there that don't object when I pitch in, but that's usually cause I group with my LS mates, and one of them is usually PL.

Thanks

Well I sub WM right now, and perhaps that is part of the issue, however any Caster sub (WM, or BM) really ammounts to +20-30 MP. So in other words 1 extra Cure2.

I tried Subbing BM for a time after I got my SJob, however parties were even less interested then when I subbed WAR.

Really I am hoping people will read this post, and understand that RDM's have way more to offer than just another Caster that can flex between types of spells.

The post is all about remembering that we not only cross the WM/BM, but also we do a little of the Melee too.

Thanks for responding

I backup heal constantly, from the front lines. Throw the debuffs I need to, engage, and cure as necessary. Honestly, how many times do you get a chance to rest for MP during combat? Usually, with the 10 second tick time, it has done little good for me.

Frankly, at these levels, anyone who thinks otherwise is WRONG. And they are missing out on your potential.

I would rather not group with these types than to have someone tell me how to do my job.

in general, a RDM's melee attack won't do enough significant damage to warrant him being on the front lines. I guess it would be alright to stand in the fray against Clippers, but against Pugils, a RDM should be back with the WHM and BLM. The Pugil's AOE attack does enough damage that having a RDM get needlessly hit by it is counterproductive for a good party.

When you hit 28 and go to Kazham, you'll realize how important it is for mages to stay out of the fray when a mangragoda uses its AOE sleep attack 3 times in one battle.

I don't recall saying that I don't want to Backup Heal. What I want is for other people to understand that I can Backup Heal from the Front Lines as well as I can from the rear, and with my EN spells actually contribute.


Well I started thinking about this thread a few days ago. With a "Small Sword" I am hitting about 15-25 times per fight. My EN Spell does 4-7 points of damage per hit. That results in 60-175 points of damage from my Melee, and averages out to around 90-110 points. While I understand that this isn't a huge contribution it can shave 2 or 3 swings off the mob overall, and this is ignoring whatever physical damage I happen to get which ranges from 0 to 12 points.

In my eyes The few swings I shave causes the Mob to drop a little faster therefore saving a little time, and HP on the other party members.



I stood in the front lines against Pugils yesterday morning. Since I have to rest in between battles (to regain MP) Damage was rarely an issue. I needed the occasional Cure2 (which I usually cast myself) after the fight was over, and it didn't seem to contribute to any extended downtime. This worked very well with judicious use of the Regen spell.


This was a VERY good read, and really seems to support some of what I say here.

I do understand that eventually I will need to move to the back ranks if I continue with RDM as my primary job. I just want you to open your mind a little to the possibility that RDM's might be usable as more than a BU Healer.

This is not a "I don't like to BU heal" thread.

I like being a BU Healer, and my Enfeeb magic is also maxed out, because they are essential.

When my front rank use begins to cause downtime for the party I will step back, but I think people are asking for RDM's to step back too soon is all.

Now THIS is why I started this thread.

Finally someone can come up with a valid Reason for why Red Mages shou NOT engage in Melee.

This makes a lot of sense provided your group understands this dynamic as well. I had never considered it in that light. Normally I send out Enfeebs, and then start Meleeing, however Twertle makes an excellent point.

Does anyone else have comments?

i'll contradict a bit w/ the statement that RDM should never draw out their sword. At lvl 30+, that statement is quite true but prior to that level, RDMs are good enough to use their swords. So long as their magic is not required in the group, a maxed sword skill(this is truly a MUST!), the latest sword equipped, and w/ all en- spells available for maximum elemental dmg, it will be enough to make RDMs fit into the 'melee' category temporarily and join in the Renkeis(hell I was doing the same dmg compared to a paladin even w/o any en- spell). The only problem I see in this is that a lot of Red Mages are forced to sit in the backline and heal/nuke/enfeeble early on in the game (or that they ignore sword lvl completely) that they're sword skill becomes too obsolete to be able to take a hit at higher levels.

After lvl 30 though, the only use for a sword is to level it up for soloing purposes. It's sad that a lot of nice WS are unavailable for a RDM unless u sub a specific job =/

Anyway! Use sword before lvl 30 and use a club w/ +int/mnd after lvl 30.

End of Thread??

Well I spent a good 3 hours in Quifim last night in an excellent party, and got almost the 4.8K XP I needed for 25. We had 3 ADV jobs at all times, and everyone had Sjobs. A lot of us were a little newer to Renkei, and we got off a few, but not as many as when I party with my LS Mates, where we all know each others Weapons, and Skills.

I tried both strategies that have seemed to make sense at this point.

I was actually pulling since I was the highest level player who could take a few hits till I got back to camp. We were pulling all the IT Pugils we could get our hands on in the area near the tower, and base camp was located near the beach.

1st Hour: Worked on flexing my muscles in the Melee as well as Magic. I would Enfeeb with DIA to pull the mob in, and then set to laying down Paralyze, Blind, Slow, and then ENThunder myself. I would then step up, and start bashing while I watched my party members HP. Worked well, but we had to rest after each fight. Still at 150+ XP a pop you cannot really complain.

2nd Hour: One of the Vokers in our group leveled to 24 conveniently enough, and they took over pulling. I swapped to pure BU Healer, and enfeebler. I would keep the Puller targetted as much as I could, and as he ran back with a Mob I would regen him. Then hit my /Assist <Name> and start Enfeebs. I even managed to pull agro for a few seconds on almost every fight due to the Regen, and the Enfeebs . . . usualy after Paralyze. I did note that with Strings of IT's our downtime was significantly reduced, and we even managed some XP Chains.

3rd Hour: At this point our membership had changed 3 or 4 times, but we managed to avoid any bad members. I began to experiment with a combination of my Hour 1 and 2 Strategies. I changed my /Assist macro a little.

LINE 1: /Assist <Name>
LINE 2: /wait 1
Line 3: /check <t>

I kept my strategy of Regenning the puller as he ran in, and Enfeebing the mob, but after that I changed things up in the following way based on the Mob.

Pulled IT mob: I would use my dedicated BU Healer strategy. I tried to toss out CURE 1's on anyone who fell below 300 HP, and watched the WM's Cure 2's, and tossed Cure 2's on anyone who needed them when the WM was Cureing another member. The reason I really tried to keep all the Tankers above 300 HP was we had lost a Tank to an IT Pugil when it did "Screwdriver" for 255 damage. Once I started my Cure anyone <300 HP we didn't lose anyone like that.

Pulled VT Mob: Start with Dedicated BU Healer strategy, and watch the fight closely. If I wasn't throwing out much in the way of CURE's I would cast Enthunder, and swap to my Melee strategy of contributing damage, and watching for the occasions where my heals were needed. We dropped any VT mobs very quikly this way, and I would only need 3-4 tics for the next fight, and I almost allways got these as the Puller was searching for more mobs

Pulled T mob: I would use my melee strategy, and the only CURE's that went out were as a mob popped and linked on us, or occasionally when the mob would crit one tank as the WM was healing another.


Using this combined strategy we stayed at minimal downtime, and pulled of some XP Chain 3's, and 4's. I had great fun mixing things up, and the leader of my party asked me to add him to my friends list as I was getting ready to log.

Moral?
The strategy that really worked best was the last. Which just goes to prove my point in that a Red Mages greatest value to the party is in his flexibility. Looking at this experiment I still ask those Party Leaders who would ask me to be a dedicated BU healer to let me do my job, as I best know how, and flex.

As I gain levels my usefullness will change. I am fine with this, and I look forward to the day where I come into my own as a mage. This is why I picked red mage, and why I will probably continue to use it as my Primary class for some time to come.

I want to express my appreciation to everyone who posted to this thread. I feel this discussion has provided a lot of good information, and it has helped me refine my gameplay to be of greater benefit to a party.

Thanks for reading.