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#1 Jan 11 2004 at 10:47 PM Rating: Decent
Ahhh, levelling, such fun. Known as, "grinding" even when its going well. Good god, must be purgatory if it isn't. So anyways, I crafted all last week, good fun, so today I thought I'd go out and level a tad.

Arrive in Valkurm, get an invite from a JP, say I'm english, get the good ole, "Sorry, no english ^^;" Shrug it off, their loss and head to the OP to HP. Sit around for 20 minutes, get an invite, ask if theres a whm, there is. Party range is 17-20 and being 17 I'm getting a tad shafted, but I go with it. Amazing party, I tell you what. The level 19 PALADIN was wearing a DOUBLET AND SHELL SHIELD. That alone is WTF. So we follow the SJless whm, to a, "good camp spot" Turns out its in the middle of a field where gobs spawn. I notice 3-4 wandering about, mention to my party that maybe we ought to find a safer camp. Nah, this is fine they say. So the pally wanders out and pulls a gob, kill it, get 42 exp, kill another 54 exp. He pulls an IT, it kills the whm, brings me to 12 hp and the 2 rdm in our party dont cure anyone -_-. SO that disbanded.

Head over to selbina, going to hop the boat and go to windy for various things. Sitting around I have my flag up, just in case some good party is around to pick me up. BIG mistake^2. Get a tell, tells are good, its a 16 SAM..../WHM....Ok, no problem, ask if he has a WHm, yep he does, ok invite me. Well its 4 people, SJless taru whm, who insists on using emotes constantly and using ^^ or ^^! or ^^; in EVERY SINGLE SENTENCE. Ok, so fine. Final party, 2 SJless RDM, 1 Sjless WAR, 1 SAM/WHM, 1 SJless WHm and me, 17 THF/ 8 WAR <-----enourmous mistake. I have full bone armor and a fish scale shield, warrior has scale junk on. SAm obviously cant voke. Oh yes, the warrior is fascinated by berserk, and has a very nice macro for it....but no provoke macro.

So it ends up with me tanking...3 fights go past, slowly, given that, as tank, I cannot use sneak attack, can I? So then the SAM pulls an IT, uses cursed sphere twice, everyones yellow, and Im still taking a beating, slip to 78 hp, red. I'm looking frantically at chat box, 2 cure Is, 1 from the SAM, 1 from the whm. That healing is gone in an instant of course. I die, 10 seconds later the WHM dies. I dont bother waiting for a raise, what nonsense, ask the WHm, "Why didn't you use cure II? When someones hp is red you need to slap heavy cure on them so they dont die, cure I doesn't cut it." She responds, "I cant heal everyone!" Yeah, everyone, maybe the main tank, sheeze. Then, "I'm leaving, Winter doesn't appreciate me, I'll find a party that does." Thank you stuck up, deluded WHM, please jump off a cliff.

So....long story short, I quit partying, forever, until i find some reliable people to group with(read, Japanese, Opps, I mean, polite, non racist Japanese). So I'm off to do the beastmaster quest, thanks all, its long I know, so
----->>>>>PARAPHRASE HERE VVVVVV
N00bs, who do not listen to the simplest suggestions, suck. I quit trying to help innatentive, intractable idiots.


This has gotta be one of the reasons JP hate partying with us. And no I'm not a JP lover, I think they're incredibly arrogant, but at least they know how to play the game.
#2 Jan 11 2004 at 10:52 PM Rating: Decent
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525 posts
Three bad experiences and you call all of NA idiots and annoying.

Thats one of the worst generalizations ive seen yet.

Maybe next time you can have a bad run in with someone of a different race and become racism because of it.
#3 Jan 11 2004 at 10:54 PM Rating: Decent
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843 posts
im not sticking up for the average idiot but remember-

NA hasnt had this game for long, give it awhiel and the number of retards will slim down. i'm guessing a LOT of the players haven't palyed any MMORPG's before as well.
#4 Jan 11 2004 at 10:56 PM Rating: Decent
Sloth, you dont understand. I have been teaching newbies how to play since I was taught how to play, when I was a level 14, subjobless warrior. I have told at least 20 parties all about renkei, pulling, camps, exp chains, the lot. Less than 50% listen. This was the last straw.

edit: I guess you guys didn't read through all the way. I am not ranting about NAs, I am ranting about n00b NAs, people who do not listen, do not cooperate.

Edited, Sun Jan 11 22:57:55 2004 by KarlWinterfeldt
#5 Jan 11 2004 at 10:59 PM Rating: Decent
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525 posts
Ahh i see, but still what do you mean by they wont listen?

They just ignore you and keep doing the same thing, or do they outright refute the facts you tell them.
#6 Jan 11 2004 at 11:03 PM Rating: Decent
I mean, they tell me to not tell them how to play their class. They dont cooperate, or take my suggestions. I dont order people, "WHM! Cure II now!" I make suggestions, repetitively, and when people ignore me repetitively, it just seems hopeless.
#7 Jan 11 2004 at 11:06 PM Rating: Decent
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525 posts
Well, think on the bright side, at a higher level you wont encounter such people. And theres always blist. Also im sure you could easily find another group.
#8 Jan 11 2004 at 11:10 PM Rating: Decent
Ahhh, this is quite a chat, isn't it? I'm off to sleep soon, so if I stop responding its because I've passed out. On topic, I do look forward to high levels, I really do. I consider that 30+ and I'm less than halfway there. I have only gained 4 levels of my 17 THF by partying, it has taken me 2 weeks to get them. Good groups just dont want thieves until 33 unfortunately.
#9 Jan 11 2004 at 11:13 PM Rating: Decent
Drama Nerdvana
******
20,674 posts
Karl i feel your pain.

Ive been in groups where whitemages try not to use cure 2 even in emergencies, tanks dont provoke, redmages tank and dont cast, people dont believe in Renkei, tanks that dont pass the aggro along to make it easier for all, black mages that nuke all out then ***** when voker cant get aggro off them or slow group with MP waits, groups that have trouble killing a VT deciding to pull an IT, groups that like to camp in spots where aggro happy mobs pop, you name it and ive seen it.

I come from DAoC a MMORPG that has been around for over 2 years, all the people are veterans. Coming to FFXI and being a noob again was nice, but i learned and listened some people dont and its frustrating.

But the fact is that this is some peoples first MMORPG, its gonna take more than 3 months for people to learn the ins an outs of the game. Patience is a Virtue. No matter how badly i wanna slap and strangle and berate someone that keeps making the same mistake over and over and over, my yelling will have little effect. If i see that im in group that is full of "Noobs" and that they are probably gonna get me killed i just politely mention tips to help things out and if they wont listen to suggestions and i still see trouble coming i will politely excuse my self from group with a lie, ie- i have to go shopping, my family is visiting, my guild mate needs my help real fast etc. And if they get me killed i just smile, and be polite, and try to show them where they went wrong.
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Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
#10 Jan 11 2004 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
This was my first truly party oriented MMORPG. I played RO, but that hardly counts for much. I love the FF system, I like crafting and with a good group, levelling IS fun, but thats about 1/10 parties. Fact remains i was a clueless newbie until a helpful JP who decided to slum with some NA parties taught us. And I listened, which is something I see too many people not doing. Anyways, I've vented, I feel better, I'll get back to thief some day I'm sure. Just feels like you're beating your head into a wall sometimes......
#11 Jan 11 2004 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
Drama Nerdvana
******
20,674 posts
word Karl word. I dig what your saying.

I was in 2 groups, both small (3peeps or less)the other day as a Black mage. We didnt have a proper tank or a healer so i said listen, I will bind the monster, nuke away and when it gets loose you mop up whats left of it.

They agreed, i told them not to hit monster till Bind wore off. Now in both groups as soon as i cast my first nuke after Bind they hit the monster with a physical attack and mob came right for me. I lived barely. While we are sitting resting up i explain what BIND does and once again explain not to attack mob until the monster is running at me.

Once again i bind monster and start nuking away, get 2 casts in and they attack monster again, monster gets loose, i get attacked and almost died.

Now im a little pissed. I tell them this time to sit down and not get up, no matter what, for no reason are they to attack, i find a decent challenge/hard defense cast bind, nuke away, it stays still, half way through its health it gets loose but by time it gets to me its almost dead and i finish it off with barely any HP loss. Only then did they understand what i was getting at.

This happened in 2 groups in one day. The people in both groups were nice, polite, smart but they just had trouble grasping the concept. But patience paid and after they understood the xp was great. (or at least good for small group standards)





Edited, Sun Jan 11 23:31:20 2004 by bhodisattva
____________________________
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
#12 Jan 12 2004 at 12:30 AM Rating: Decent
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149 posts
I actually agree with most of this...

That's rare enough in and of itself.


I have to ask though, why do you feel it necessary to point out that your party mates are subjobless as if that alone should be a mark of shame? I'm working towards the subjob quest now. However, I have another class at 13 that will become my Subclass simple because I want to get WHM to 36 and then sub it and learn bard. Admittedly, the little HP boosts I get from Mnk will be nice but don't really help me as a party playing WHM all that much. (I just know someone is gonna rate me down for not planning to raise BLM or RDM for the MP boost. My answer is that I want to be a party support on the buff and heal side... I have no interest in being a 2nd class nuke, or giving people the excuse to treat me as such rather than getting a proper debuff/nuke character.)

Otherwise, I agree about people not listening. I finally have the first person going on my /blist. A DRK who insisted on pulling repeatedly while the rest of the party was trying to discuss our plans. When those plans finally became 'Lets disband and try again later' mainly due to the DRK who wouldn't listen to 5 other people telling her to stop doing that while we were trying to plan as a group (same DRK was bossing everyone around 2 minutes before that.) The rest of the party all grabbed eachother on their friends lists, and my LS mate and I jogged back to Selbina and added the other WHM in the group to our LS so that we could talk easier.
#13 Jan 12 2004 at 1:08 AM Rating: Decent
lvl24whm lvl36 fisherman lvl39 cook, need I say more..

I havent grouped for 2 weeks or so too many bad groups

People with really bad gear I mean hey I have 100k worth of gear and some people dont even have 5k worth. Dont they feel ashamed leeching XP, I know I would.

Joe Bloggs uses a meat mithkabob <-- way to uncommon, none of my groups in Qufim used them.

So many idiots that are in such a hurry, I join a group and before I can even say who is the main tank or cast protect/shell someone has pulled a mob.

Really bad XP and people thinking its good. You get only 100XP from mobs that nearly kill you and people are saying best group ever and crap like that.

sigh

Guess I will have to go BST/WHM until all the dumb people learn that you have to devote time to make money instead of powerleveling all the time.

Unfortunately I still have 6 lvls to go :(
#14 Jan 12 2004 at 1:46 AM Rating: Decent
24 posts
So you had a bad day- we all have. Me personally.. I got over it, bought a linkshell and handpicked it's members. We're at 20ish, and to be honest- we haven't died YET (except for the random banshee spawns in Qufim) We play a game called "catch" when the monsters are too much, the war takes it, when he gets low I cure 2, it aggros me (WHM) I take a hit, then someone else Cure 2's me... War 'vokes when he can. we pass it around.. we always make zone. Basically, 5 out of 6 members are always LS when we go hunting, and we don't care about leveling much because we've all become good friends. I suggest doing the same, you won't regret it! Powerleveling friends is great, esp. when they do the same for you!

Look us up if you're on Bahamut
LegionXIII, proud owner.

We are Legion, we are many.
#15 Jan 12 2004 at 1:52 AM Rating: Decent
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227 posts
I don't know if anyone else has said it yet, but you're clearly a racist.
#16 Jan 12 2004 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
Houk, I dont know what your problem is, nowhere do I say anything racist. I do not favor Americans or Japanese, I favor people who know how to play and are cooperative. The reason I mentioned they had no Subjob was to point out that they were new. IMO if you're new you should probably at least listen to someone who has been playing for awhile and not act like an arrogant *** who knows their job perfectly.
#17 Jan 12 2004 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
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580 posts
Yes there are bad players, and there are good players, end of topic. My highest character is 41 ( would be higher but I left the game ) and when ever I go back to level a lower level character , like my 12 war which i used soley for grouping with my GFs 12 whm ( she occassionaly plays ), it can get tiresome when you ask people questions like: "Do you know about skill chains?" and get response "Yes I do". So you ask everyone to make a macro if they don't already have one stating their tp% and they say "Already got one" and 10 battles latter after repeatedly asking them to use it they finaly start to use it, and now when i know their tp is full i start the skill chain ( which has been stated the order and ws to be used and by whom) no one uses their WS. Yes it is aggravating playing with people like this. It happens. And I have had it happen in both JP and NA groups. So don't compare JP to NA...because the ability to play this game has nothing to do with race. Best exp group i ever seen ( which exceeded even the fables I have heard of JP groups ) was with an all NA group.

As far as winter being a racist, I can't really say, but as soon as you start comparing one race as being better than another, the statement becomes racist. So winter i would suggest you don't make such comparisons in the future.

Quote:
This has gotta be one of the reasons JP hate partying with us. And no I'm not a JP lover, I think they're incredibly arrogant, but at least they know how to play the game.


Let me translate this phrase- I dont want to seem racist even though I am and make a simple statement saying I don't care a great deal for these people I am about to praise. Japanese players can play the game and North Americans Can't.

Quote:
who insists on using emotes constantly and using ^^ or ^^! or ^^; in EVERY SINGLE SENTENCE.


Get a Life!!! You are just looking for things to pick apart winter...I would rather group with a bunch of noobs and get my *** killed every other battle than to group with someone like yourself. IF the group is having fun and we are all getting along even after dying...thats all that matters. Fun is the name of the game. Mind you I would prefer a group of nice people who don;t get killed every other battle, but a group of noobs is better any day of the week than a group of people like you.
#18 Jan 12 2004 at 9:43 AM Rating: Decent
The thing I hate the most is dealing with people that are not satisfied unless they are getting 150 XP per kill all the time, no matter how difficult it is. My philosophy is just always be pulling... safely. In most cases I have seen that these people are 13 year old asshats that are staying up past curfew.

I do not have a problem with younger players that have their heads out of their asses, but that is few and far between. Most I have partied with are pushy XP greedy little rats and their incessant whining makes the group want to drink the poisoned Kool-Aid.

Xp is Xp, and if your total is increasing be happy. I for one would rather find a good group with moderate xp than be in an annoying group with excellent Xp.

Patience is a virtue, unfortunately there alot of folks out there that don't understand this.
#19 Jan 12 2004 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
yeah, i feel your pain...KarlWinterfeldt

last friday i had one of the silliest group i ever had. after getting tire of not having a group in the maze, i decided to head over to dunes to get some xp. got there and got invite pretty much right away. i said to myself..cool =) it was a group of lvl 14-11 (the only whm was the lvl 11), then the leader invited a lvl 16 war...i was like..ok...but since i havn't had a group for a long time, i decided to shut up and play. we went out and i was thinking we were going to kill some rabbits in one of the oasis, but no..the lvl 16 leaded us to fight lizard instead..fine..ok..i guess i never did that. went there kill couple lizards getting like 30ish xp per kill :P then the "SAFE" camp got jump by gobs that spwan around there :P we ran and we all got away. then the lvl 16 left, and the leader invited a read this "LVL 17" :P duh...so much for our xp :P then the 17 war leaded us to one of the oasis and what did he pull? an IT snipper...we all fough bravly and most of us got kill :P then after that the lvl 17 said this "i guess you guys aren't skill enough, i'm leaving" what a jerk :P HE was the one who didn't consider we only had one lvl 11 whm and pull an IT...HE was the one who didn't realize we were bunch of lvl 14-11s and we couldn't make a dent to an IT snipper. and HE was the one who decided to use berserk...when he was the main tank...and now HE complained to us saying that we aren't skill enough? that guy effectivly went to my black list of not grouping with :P btw...i was the only one who managed to stay alive in that group :P

then the next day i managed to get into a REALLY good group, we were only killing tough and very tough mobs and we had almost no downtime in between...went from lvl 14-16 in that group =) of coz..being able to do sneak attack + fastblade (100is damage) chained with double thrust (additional 30ish) works very well =) can take down a VT mob VERY fast =)

well..both groups were all NA players and i guess it can go either way...now when i group with people, i try to find someone who already has subjob since they have more experience in the game =)
#20 Jan 12 2004 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
Imaginary Friend
*****
16,112 posts
Fugget, gues I'll rant here too.. <^_^>

.. Yeah.. I've notice that if you Don't have a Sub-Job.. people don't really listen to you... at least by people who do have them....(i made a new character..so have no sub at the moment)

It is like a mark of shame...

And yeah.. People Definatly don't take instruction very well....

Grouped in Maze last night.... I suggest like 5 times..in 5 different ways that we should just "people Wait at teh Entryway... Puller goes and brings the mob to us.... to avoid aggro" Simple.

So right after I say this...everyone goes charging off into the mazes like it's D-Day... there was One guy who saw my logic.

3 ro 4 times we end up running to Zone.. because somthing spawned on top of us.

And I'm not the type to Bark orders at people.... i figure let them learn from there mistakes..and I get to Laugh at the Hysterically when they suffer for not heeding my advice...I'm prone to slipping in little tidbits to teach people how not to get killed....Like always yelling "TO THE WALL!"..when healing. Or after I use a Status Macro...seeing that some peeple followed my example and made one themselves..
I even Give an Explaination of Why I give the suggestions tath I give..... people just need to learn on their own... it's like Teenagers!!! Go Figure.

I Still havn't Truley Left a group because it Sucked so bad... unless I did have some other reason to leave too.... ALot of people don't understand the XP penalty thing.. heh I barely do myself.

But I always hope taht no matter What happens in a PT.. that the n00b that I'm grouped with LEarn alittle bit more about playing... either the Easy Way or the hard way

n00bs.... I get more advanced...they're always n00bs..

Just try to remember all you people with Thin patience..... just because you've explained something 1000 times to 1000 different people... there's going to be 1000 more that don't know.

btw
Bhodisattva complained
Quote:
redmages tank and dont cast


Melee attacking has No effect on casting. I can sit there and tank away and cast the Same ammount of spells as I would if I were sitting meekly in the back row with the normal Magi.
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With the receiver in my hand..
#21 Jan 12 2004 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
same as Kelvyquayo, the char i used was a newly made thf. and yup...that lvl 17 didn't listen to me too :P tho next time he might want to check my eq...one of my balance ring alone worth more then his entire set of eq :P and i have 2 =) anyways...kinda sad when people don't listen to you not because your sugguestion is not good, instead it is because your char's lvl is lower then them :P
#22 Jan 13 2004 at 4:41 AM Rating: Decent
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66 posts
Karl, I know what you mean. Smiley: cry
Quote:
Well, think on the bright side, at a higher level you wont encounter such people.
I wish that were true, TropicSloTh. I wish at level 30 everyone knew about Sneak Attack. Nevermind Trick Attack..! Some days, it's just... like... it's just like...
Smiley: banghead

Houk and celinaredfern, let's not get our panties in a bunch. This country is already too PC; let's not shriek 'Racist!' at every opportunity, mmkay? Japanese players have had this game a year longer than we have, and their experience is way up while their noob rating is way low -- this is obviously what Karl was referring to. What would you have him call them, "the people who have been playing a year longer than the people who have been playing since October"? Anyway, this is a 'rant' page. Go plant daisies elsewhere.

Jesus. Smiley: glare

Edited, Tue Jan 13 05:11:12 2004 by Aitrus
#23 Jan 13 2004 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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364 posts
I can understand why you would go a bit postal Karl after suffering with multiple groups. Personally, I find the best ways to get a good group and have some cooperation/communication are:

1. I am polite the majority of the time, even when I have some dumbass who thinks "I am in an MMORPG and all of you have to listen to me because I AM ALL KNOWING!". If someone is doing something a bit to dangerously counterproductive to XP/Gil or my life span, I politely say stuff like "Please do not pull so quick because the WHM has 14 MP right now." or "Let's build some TP from weaker monsters so that we can take that IT.". Most of the time, people listen and help out a bit more. I always ask before I pull (and yes I have pull/tanked and has worked for me so far.:) if everyone is ready, until I heard a WHM say to me "You don't need to ask if we are ready. We trust your judgement".

2. I make sure I listen and respond to someone's concerns. If someone can suggest a better Renkei/camp/tactic, I read it and see if I agree with it. If not, I suggest something different with reasons, not just to be the jerk I can be...:) My example is this: I was a Hume 23WAR/11MNK as the main tank/puller in a group in Qufim. We group in a Mithra 22PLD/11WAR. Trying to discuss tanking/provoking order, said PLD insists on tanking because they had 20 more DEF points and the PLD DEF skills. The issue I had was that they had 60+ HP less then me, was only taking 7-8 less per hit from what we pulled and had already died/had a BLM die from the out of order Provoking. When this person asked after all of this "What is the Provoking order?", my answer was "YOU DECIDE. I will only Provoke to save the mages". Mages in that group (and others I have been) seem to like me for that.....;)

3. Make sure you are clear about your job advantages. Here are some of my favs:

When a SAM/WAR says "I do not know Skillchains", I wonder why they would pick SAM?

When a RDM/WHM refuses to heal people that are hurt because they "want to save MP" when they are at full/resting, I wonder why have the Curing spells?


Just my end of the rant. I will shaddup now.....<img border=0 src=/shared/smilies/banghead.gif>
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