I am encountering an interesting phenomenon on my server, Fironia Vie, and wonder if other players experience this.
I'm always attuned to newcomers and returning players because the health of the game requires population growth. So if any player issues a plaintiff plea for assistance, usually in their home race language, I will make every reasonable effort to help. I never respond to pleas for plat, altho I will donate some plat to a new or long-time returning player, once I've talked with them a bit and determined that their newness is "real." Usually I prefer to help with info, buffs, ports, gear, etc.
I run into 2-4 players a week of this sort and I usually friend them, ask them to friend me if they so desire and encourage them to feel free to send me tells with questions whenever they like.
When I log in one of the first commands I issue is "/who friends all", like I think most of us do. I see these players for a while, sometimes leveling up quickly, sometimes slowly, sometimes not and I like to think the last group is enjoying just exploring and querying quest NPCs, etc. But the sad truth is that gradually all these players seem to "fade away." That isn't to say that I'm online 24-7, but it strikes me that if I run into them a few times in the early days of their EQ "careers" I would still see them online from time to time as they continue playing. Most of the time I do NOT. Which leads me to think that after a week or two or four of gameplay, they grow bored and retire.
Which is disappointing. I'd estimate that I've added probably over 60 players to my friends list this way over the last few months and I can count exactly TWO who I still see online many weeks after their first appearance. One is level 84 now, and the other level 60ish. Neither is focused heavily on fast leveling. In fact, I offered both PL sessions at some point in the past and got turned down. Kudos to them. They want to level up the "old fashioned" way and enjoy the journey along the way.
What does this all mean? Well, I think F2P gets people to try out EQ---and encourages those who quit long ago to come back and check the game out again. But most of them don't seem to "stick." Beyond making the game F2P and turning gameplay into a "Care Bear" Fest, I don't know what more Sony could do to keep these people playing. As with many hobbies, I guess, most people just pass through and only a small percentage become long-term adherents.
Anyone else experience this "interesting phenomenon"?
BTW on the occasions I've asked such players what they like the least about the game, the common answer is its complexity. It can be overwhelming. Long-time players, who have learned at least the basic keystrokes, strats, zones, spells, etc. can't always appreciate how overwhelmingly massive is the EQ universe. I know I felt the same way when I logged in my level 60 tauren shaman in WoW a few months back, after not playing him for two years, and I was so lost I just gave up. I didn't last even as long as most of the EQ returnees I run into. And at least I remembered the very basics of WoW.
Food for thought...
Edited, May 7th 2014 4:12pm by Sippin
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FV: 115 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ SHD SHM Master Alchemist ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
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Agnarr: 65 DRU ENC SHD MAG CLE ROG WIZ BRD WAR
Oh yes, I have noticed similar.
In my case my rl friend who got me into EQ (he actually bought my first titanium disc set for me and set it up on my desktop while I had a BBQ at my home without my permission ! lol) moved from my server (AB) to Luclin to raid US-ESTimes about 4 years ago and as a result, the only in game people I group with regularly are four of the returning players that I initially helped with levelling and getting their J5 Mercs from SOD about a year or two ago.
Two of the last four active, recently told me that they have seen their returnee guild run its course and the numbers died within the last 6 to 8 months...
One quit around 7-8 months ago but the last 4 that still play are having varying success in EQ. Two of them have out levelled me (my main crew sits at lvl 95) and are at lvl 100, of which one is set to raid soon. While the other runs a three box... boxing on 3 separate computers like me.
But the first two I had mentioned, lost their guild and are catching their royal *** in the game in my opinion.
One of them hardly logs on any more over the last three to four weeks... And for him that is not normal as he was a 30-40 hour a week player.
I think that when some returning players with little or no in game resources (such as: active guild, hi lvl friend(s) or box set with plat galore and gold/all access account) hit HOT expansion after just levelling solo w/mercs to that point...They hit a brick wall unless they know exactly where their character should be re gear, AA's- incl AA placement etc and know what kind of dps the mobs put out.
They may even find they get to lvl 90 with no issues as they could easily find Heroic characters LFG in Feerrott-Dream, but after that soft area hunting ground is past relevance and the lvl90 content bottlenecks and becomes more linear they need to hit other zones within the expansion ie Tier 2 zones like Erudin Burning.. If unprepared, they wipe, then wipe again and if the wrong group set up with no proper tank and cc or pulling, there is no easy way to advance for them...While if they skip content or massing AA's and decide to take a ride (plvl) to 95, it would be worse in VOA for them.This, if they don't have any of the "resources" I had mentioned earlier.
In my opinion the lack of a group game population at their sub 90 levels (if un-guilded or not in an active guild) hits many returnees hard somewhere around that expansions content and they lose interest after seeing a tank they thought was sufficient be one rounded from a trash mob with maybe one add.
Good thing is that I know at least two returnees who did well (they were in the mid 70s about a year and a half ago to two iirc) and are back full time and doing well. But both of them have "resources" one is now in a good group guild and one is 3 boxing with his own boxer-guild and created heroic characters on his 2 new box accounts.
Edit: Forgot to add, I think that if a player is content to explore the old world and take it slow solo, w/merc or boxing, they can enjoy EQ indefinitely and there are quite a few with that play style. But if one wants to advance their character past 90 content thru lvl 100 content they have to go Gold/All Access status when doing VOA expansion or even HOT expansion if doing its progression.
Edited, May 8th 2014 11:22am by hexeez
In my case my rl friend who got me into EQ (he actually bought my first titanium disc set for me and set it up on my desktop while I had a BBQ at my home without my permission ! lol) moved from my server (AB) to Luclin to raid US-ESTimes about 4 years ago and as a result, the only in game people I group with regularly are four of the returning players that I initially helped with levelling and getting their J5 Mercs from SOD about a year or two ago.
Two of the last four active, recently told me that they have seen their returnee guild run its course and the numbers died within the last 6 to 8 months...
One quit around 7-8 months ago but the last 4 that still play are having varying success in EQ. Two of them have out levelled me (my main crew sits at lvl 95) and are at lvl 100, of which one is set to raid soon. While the other runs a three box... boxing on 3 separate computers like me.
But the first two I had mentioned, lost their guild and are catching their royal *** in the game in my opinion.
One of them hardly logs on any more over the last three to four weeks... And for him that is not normal as he was a 30-40 hour a week player.
I think that when some returning players with little or no in game resources (such as: active guild, hi lvl friend(s) or box set with plat galore and gold/all access account) hit HOT expansion after just levelling solo w/mercs to that point...They hit a brick wall unless they know exactly where their character should be re gear, AA's- incl AA placement etc and know what kind of dps the mobs put out.
They may even find they get to lvl 90 with no issues as they could easily find Heroic characters LFG in Feerrott-Dream, but after that soft area hunting ground is past relevance and the lvl90 content bottlenecks and becomes more linear they need to hit other zones within the expansion ie Tier 2 zones like Erudin Burning.. If unprepared, they wipe, then wipe again and if the wrong group set up with no proper tank and cc or pulling, there is no easy way to advance for them...While if they skip content or massing AA's and decide to take a ride (plvl) to 95, it would be worse in VOA for them.This, if they don't have any of the "resources" I had mentioned earlier.
In my opinion the lack of a group game population at their sub 90 levels (if un-guilded or not in an active guild) hits many returnees hard somewhere around that expansions content and they lose interest after seeing a tank they thought was sufficient be one rounded from a trash mob with maybe one add.
Good thing is that I know at least two returnees who did well (they were in the mid 70s about a year and a half ago to two iirc) and are back full time and doing well. But both of them have "resources" one is now in a good group guild and one is 3 boxing with his own boxer-guild and created heroic characters on his 2 new box accounts.
Edit: Forgot to add, I think that if a player is content to explore the old world and take it slow solo, w/merc or boxing, they can enjoy EQ indefinitely and there are quite a few with that play style. But if one wants to advance their character past 90 content thru lvl 100 content they have to go Gold/All Access status when doing VOA expansion or even HOT expansion if doing its progression.
Edited, May 8th 2014 11:22am by hexeez
I tend to agree. I'd actually suggest that the game kinda tops out a bit earlier than that for anyone who isn't on a gold sub. Maybe more like 80ish. The fact is that content is scaled with the assumption of a specific normal amount of AAs, so anything which blocks that is going to be a problem. And you're right that there is a very steep power curve in the HoT+ game. There's steep gear increases as well, but if you don't know how to get it, or what to get, or even have the cash to get tier1 stuff, you're going to be hosed. Once defiant (which is dirt cheap compared to the next 3 sets of gear (4 I guess now) caps out, you're going to have huge problems. Try tanking anything in HoT in defiant and you'll get squashed. Don't even think about VoA...
I'm reasonably certain that my Paladin's HPs nearly tripled between level 79 and level 92 (just before teir1 HOT to just at teir1 RoF). And a large portion of that is going from gear that grants 200-300 points per piece to gear that grants 2000-3000 points per piece. It's a "Really Big Deal(tm)". Some classes may be less impacted by this, but it's still going to be a problem if you're just going along playing, and maybe aren't checking this site for information about the game. While there's nothing that prevents other subs from making bank, it is a lot easier with a gold sub. And knowing where you can go and what things you can get, that'll make your life a hell of a lot easier is half the battle. Hell, knowing where the folks who sell the various non-visible bits in different expansions can be huge for someone who maybe doesn't group that much (much less raid). Checking the bazaar isn't always the best source for buyable upgrades, but you have to know where else to look.
I'm reasonably certain that my Paladin's HPs nearly tripled between level 79 and level 92 (just before teir1 HOT to just at teir1 RoF). And a large portion of that is going from gear that grants 200-300 points per piece to gear that grants 2000-3000 points per piece. It's a "Really Big Deal(tm)". Some classes may be less impacted by this, but it's still going to be a problem if you're just going along playing, and maybe aren't checking this site for information about the game. While there's nothing that prevents other subs from making bank, it is a lot easier with a gold sub. And knowing where you can go and what things you can get, that'll make your life a hell of a lot easier is half the battle. Hell, knowing where the folks who sell the various non-visible bits in different expansions can be huge for someone who maybe doesn't group that much (much less raid). Checking the bazaar isn't always the best source for buyable upgrades, but you have to know where else to look.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
First, I give credit to SoE for doing so many things to make returning more viable (mercs, hotzones, defiant, AAgrant, etc.) even though I would have done many of these things differently.
Second, I think part of it is that the largest playerbase of this game was up to Luclin or PoP at the latest. I think when people left the game tempers/alters their expectations coming back.
The people that left before LDoN left a game with minimal instancing, no augmentations, a basic character stats-sheet that resembled classic D & D, and a reasonable compact and familiar world in which to level, a bazaar that had usable low level gear that wasn't all called defiant (to cite some examples). If you left before Luclin there was barely any nodrop gear...
But, you can play the old stuff to 60 or 65 (wherever you left off) without really doing it that different than the fun way you remember (though it's actually much easier due to all the changes). You can also do the TSS chain for a "modernized" but not horribly different feel to it, if you are the type that needs freshness to replay.
I personally find it is the the 70+ gear/spells/zones that make EQ feel different (and you're not really even in the modern game if you aren't 85-90+ at this point). I have come back to the game several times and there's some "new" things I really don't like:
-the really confusing crafted jewellry that you can't (or couldn't) see the stats on till you put it all together
-the mod 2s and heroic stats muddying up the stats picture (should have been AA, keep the gear simple with stats relevant)
-the zillions of names for things that aren't that different... focus effects are terrible for this. Improved damage was a good name for the focus...
-progression and tasks you "have to do" but no one is doing anymore (the autogrant fixed some of this).
-ancient content still requiring groups/raids to access despite the rewards being mostly obsolete
-abandonment of the lore/faction. "Playing your character" had far more impact in the pre-luclin game. An Iksar welcome in most of the world is something you could spend time to do. This invested you in the character. Great memories were built killing things you weren't supposed to (like dwarf guards as a good race). I've never even seen someone try to kill a Drakkin NPC...
There's more, but it's my list and possibly completely opposite to someone else's. The point of the list is the game is really familiar in parts to the returning player, but bizarrely complex in other areas (arguably needlessly) due to the sheer amount of expansion and changes made over the last 12 years (of the 15).
I suppose I was roundabout saying "people come back to EQ hoping to capture what they remember, but without fluking into likeminded population it is hard to sustain that nostalgia based interest for long (especially since you outlevel your nostalgia quickly unless you commit to tedious old questing and are then faced with a steep learning curve when you do go past the old comfort zone).
Make friends & join an active guild is the best "keep me playing" strategy towards returnees in my view.
Edited, May 7th 2014 10:33pm by snailish
Second, I think part of it is that the largest playerbase of this game was up to Luclin or PoP at the latest. I think when people left the game tempers/alters their expectations coming back.
The people that left before LDoN left a game with minimal instancing, no augmentations, a basic character stats-sheet that resembled classic D & D, and a reasonable compact and familiar world in which to level, a bazaar that had usable low level gear that wasn't all called defiant (to cite some examples). If you left before Luclin there was barely any nodrop gear...
But, you can play the old stuff to 60 or 65 (wherever you left off) without really doing it that different than the fun way you remember (though it's actually much easier due to all the changes). You can also do the TSS chain for a "modernized" but not horribly different feel to it, if you are the type that needs freshness to replay.
I personally find it is the the 70+ gear/spells/zones that make EQ feel different (and you're not really even in the modern game if you aren't 85-90+ at this point). I have come back to the game several times and there's some "new" things I really don't like:
-the really confusing crafted jewellry that you can't (or couldn't) see the stats on till you put it all together
-the mod 2s and heroic stats muddying up the stats picture (should have been AA, keep the gear simple with stats relevant)
-the zillions of names for things that aren't that different... focus effects are terrible for this. Improved damage was a good name for the focus...
-progression and tasks you "have to do" but no one is doing anymore (the autogrant fixed some of this).
-ancient content still requiring groups/raids to access despite the rewards being mostly obsolete
-abandonment of the lore/faction. "Playing your character" had far more impact in the pre-luclin game. An Iksar welcome in most of the world is something you could spend time to do. This invested you in the character. Great memories were built killing things you weren't supposed to (like dwarf guards as a good race). I've never even seen someone try to kill a Drakkin NPC...
There's more, but it's my list and possibly completely opposite to someone else's. The point of the list is the game is really familiar in parts to the returning player, but bizarrely complex in other areas (arguably needlessly) due to the sheer amount of expansion and changes made over the last 12 years (of the 15).
I suppose I was roundabout saying "people come back to EQ hoping to capture what they remember, but without fluking into likeminded population it is hard to sustain that nostalgia based interest for long (especially since you outlevel your nostalgia quickly unless you commit to tedious old questing and are then faced with a steep learning curve when you do go past the old comfort zone).
Make friends & join an active guild is the best "keep me playing" strategy towards returnees in my view.
Edited, May 7th 2014 10:33pm by snailish
I think you nailed it. People return and remember Velious or something but that game is long dead. Plus the current game is set up to race you through all that and into the 80+ game. So all that is unfamiliar ("what's these thirty different stats on my gear?") and people drop back off either because it's not the game they remember or because, for the effort of learning a new game, they might as well pick one that didn't come out during the Clinton administration.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
True ! I could imagine returning players from pre TSS days being lost especially as EQ still has a cult like feel re getting up to date information. So much older information is obsolete and could lead a returnee astray..
Especially re most classes where the original class sites are long dead and only kept alive by a few moderators trying their best to update the many changes to a class and the game itself..
I even noticed that for my SK tank in the 90+ game, the old world AC augs without the new stats alone don't cut it as there is heroic dexterity, heroic agility and corruption resists stats that now have to be taken into consideration to tank properly in that content. A new group melee class player that tanks those levels content cant count on the AC and HP stats alone anymore when gearing up for mitigation. It has definitely gotten much more complex.
Especially re most classes where the original class sites are long dead and only kept alive by a few moderators trying their best to update the many changes to a class and the game itself..
I even noticed that for my SK tank in the 90+ game, the old world AC augs without the new stats alone don't cut it as there is heroic dexterity, heroic agility and corruption resists stats that now have to be taken into consideration to tank properly in that content. A new group melee class player that tanks those levels content cant count on the AC and HP stats alone anymore when gearing up for mitigation. It has definitely gotten much more complex.
As a returned player I can confirm - it's all true.
I quit EQ in 2005 and returned couple of months ago.
I think only thing saving the day for people like me is a guild carrying "old" values.
I quit EQ in 2005 and returned couple of months ago.
I think only thing saving the day for people like me is a guild carrying "old" values.
I returned to the game a year and a half ago and felt like a Noob again, BUT is wasn't the same feeling I had when I was a real newbie. The sense of discovery was gone. I was rediscovering things I had mostly done before. It was also "lonelier". I had no friends, level 60+ chars who had nobody to group with and a guild of which I was the only member left. I convinced an old friend to return, but she had been in a top level, bleeding edge raiding guild back in the day. Her guild was still active and a few members helped to quickly get her to 100 and re-geared, but the guild imploded soon after. She now does pick up raids. I would love to play with her, but my days of raiding are over. I didn't enjoy it back in the day and wouldn't even consider it today. I just plodded along leveling very slowly and trying to acquire long needed AA's.
I convinced another friend to return from WoW, but that was a short-lived thing. WoW holds your hand way too much and a return to EQ was like going from running to slow motion for her. Another quick exodus, although she gave me her account password and I have since geared up her chars, depositing at least the next 3 levels of Defiant gear in their individual banks to help if she ever does return again. The then AA grinding was not at all enjoyable to her. I have "heroiced" her main, so maybe someday.
I have been doing the same for my long neglected nephew's account. His chars are now well geared and also have most of the available Defiant gear sitting in their banks for when they reach the level to use it.
Auto-grant AA's and the Heroic chars have allowed me to visit zones I hadn't in the past and made re-gearing 25 odd alts a little easier. What I do notice though is that I am almost always soloing on my main server (Tunare). I can't run with the 100's in my gear, even if there were 100's willing to group.
The most fun I've had in my EQ "career" was the recent Lunar Mutant Rights Now guild formed from this web site. Even that wound down though as my Bard has now leveled well beyond his gear with no prospects of improving. I enjoy questing, but after losing two required quest items to combine failures and having to restart the Vah Shir tradeskill quests, I even gave up on that. It's very frustrating to lose items that way and it is only the Bard quest that this happens to. All other Vah Shir quests return the required item on failure. This is so old it will likely never be fixed. The only other place I have seen this happen is the Iksar Warrior Pike quests. I have a 61 lizzy War, but will not even attempt the last two levels until his smithing skill is way beyond the trivial needed. I simply don't want the hassle of repeating such low level quests again.
Recently, a friend expressed interest in trying EQ so until his new computer becomes a reality (low income = incremental acquisition of parts), I let him create the char on my system. I have added that char to my gear farming lists. I'm trying to make his experience a bit easier than mine was back in the day. I remember being over joyed when someone gave me a fine steel weapon for my Pally. I still couldn't damage magic npc's, but it was much better than what I had. My friend will never experience that frustration.....
So after all this rambling, I guess what I am saying is that EQ is now just a way to kill time for me. I dislike TV, so don't even own one. I have had some recent emotional setbacks, so it also is a much needed distraction from RL for me. It will NEVER be like the awe inspiring feeling I had when I first started back in 2001, but nothing remains the same. Newness you can experience only once. I would love to see more people come to EQ, but as said above, EQ is a complicated game and today, people want to be ushered and hand held through games. I hope this aspect never comes to EQ but also understand it stands in the way of rebuilding a healthy population. So be it, EQ is EQ.
Edited, May 8th 2014 10:51am by KC13
I convinced another friend to return from WoW, but that was a short-lived thing. WoW holds your hand way too much and a return to EQ was like going from running to slow motion for her. Another quick exodus, although she gave me her account password and I have since geared up her chars, depositing at least the next 3 levels of Defiant gear in their individual banks to help if she ever does return again. The then AA grinding was not at all enjoyable to her. I have "heroiced" her main, so maybe someday.
I have been doing the same for my long neglected nephew's account. His chars are now well geared and also have most of the available Defiant gear sitting in their banks for when they reach the level to use it.
Auto-grant AA's and the Heroic chars have allowed me to visit zones I hadn't in the past and made re-gearing 25 odd alts a little easier. What I do notice though is that I am almost always soloing on my main server (Tunare). I can't run with the 100's in my gear, even if there were 100's willing to group.
The most fun I've had in my EQ "career" was the recent Lunar Mutant Rights Now guild formed from this web site. Even that wound down though as my Bard has now leveled well beyond his gear with no prospects of improving. I enjoy questing, but after losing two required quest items to combine failures and having to restart the Vah Shir tradeskill quests, I even gave up on that. It's very frustrating to lose items that way and it is only the Bard quest that this happens to. All other Vah Shir quests return the required item on failure. This is so old it will likely never be fixed. The only other place I have seen this happen is the Iksar Warrior Pike quests. I have a 61 lizzy War, but will not even attempt the last two levels until his smithing skill is way beyond the trivial needed. I simply don't want the hassle of repeating such low level quests again.
Recently, a friend expressed interest in trying EQ so until his new computer becomes a reality (low income = incremental acquisition of parts), I let him create the char on my system. I have added that char to my gear farming lists. I'm trying to make his experience a bit easier than mine was back in the day. I remember being over joyed when someone gave me a fine steel weapon for my Pally. I still couldn't damage magic npc's, but it was much better than what I had. My friend will never experience that frustration.....
So after all this rambling, I guess what I am saying is that EQ is now just a way to kill time for me. I dislike TV, so don't even own one. I have had some recent emotional setbacks, so it also is a much needed distraction from RL for me. It will NEVER be like the awe inspiring feeling I had when I first started back in 2001, but nothing remains the same. Newness you can experience only once. I would love to see more people come to EQ, but as said above, EQ is a complicated game and today, people want to be ushered and hand held through games. I hope this aspect never comes to EQ but also understand it stands in the way of rebuilding a healthy population. So be it, EQ is EQ.
Edited, May 8th 2014 10:51am by KC13
I think it varies but I have seen the phenomenon occur. I completely agree with snailish though.
Many of my accounts were given (some might say 'dumped') to me by friends/guildies when they quit the game, for a variety of reasons. Over the years, several of them have returned for short periods but then quit again (some have returned multiple times, on new accounts). Most recently, last November I had a friend return after not playing since SoD (he was the ranger half of a ranger-cleric duo so when his wife quit (over mercs), so did he). I gave him his character back and he didn't recognize her. When he quit, she was level 63 with the basic archery focused AA done and when he logged her in, she was 90 with a little over 3k AA. Oh yeah and she was a 'she' not a 'he' anymore. Even though I cleared that with him years ago (shortly after he gave me the account), it can be quite a shock to see it for yourself. Anyhow, he and his wife played the ranger (the wife didn't want to touch her cleric, even when I offered it to her, because she said she'd have to relearn how to heal and people might die during the process), most of the time with me, for a little over a month. Then they quit again, citing the game's focus on "min/maxing" (mod2s, mod3s, focus effect variation, etc). Like, if you don't know soft/hard or effective caps, you could actually be downgrading your gear by choosing an item with more of a known stat because of some other benefit provided that makes the item you have better than the one you just picked up. For example, if your avoidance is capped and you "upgrade" to an item that gives you more hp or mana or end, it could wind up being a net loss because of the loss of avoidance (like hexeez alluded to). Or you swap to an item with more hp or ac but with a lesser focus effect (like going from a raid focus to a group focus from a newer expansion). For example, an Underfoot raid focus to a HoT group focus. And this is one example of many. So yes, I've seen examples of the game's complexity scaring people off. I happen to like complexity in games (it's why I still play EVE) but the whole "accessibility revolution" started by WoW has led people away from that. There are people in EQ who think that group gear should never surpass the stats/benefit of raid gear (even when that raid gear is 4 expansions old!). Had one friend who burned out on Two Gods in TBS and came back last anniversary to find gear five levels above him (Abstruse) outclassed his raid gear, saying that never happened in EQ before (except he's wrong. PoP's elemental gear completely outclassed Kael/Skyshrine armor and even ornate did, for some classes, and that was only a 2 expansion/5 level jump).
I would agree that a lack of a 'mid game' (as it used to be called, with guilds that raided 2-3 expansion old content) contributes to the lack of retention (or 'stickiness' as Sippin called it). Those guilds tended to prepare people for any steep ramp-ups in content difficulty, as well as keeping the higher end guilds stocked when folks felt ready to make that jump. Nowadays, those guilds don't exist (they were probably killed by PoP's expansion of raid sizes and never recovered) so people have no real place to learn the ropes. This creates the shock factor of expansion content difficulty. I think restoring the mid game would be the one thing that the EQ devs could do to improve the game's retention (of both new and returning players). There has to be a "training tier" to help folks smooth out increases in difficulty, especially for the so-called "casual player" who isn't at all engaged into the game's stats (and their implications). Back in the day, there were always people in guild who could advise you on what you should be focused on, statwise. Now all people have really is general chat and that's questionable.
Many of my accounts were given (some might say 'dumped') to me by friends/guildies when they quit the game, for a variety of reasons. Over the years, several of them have returned for short periods but then quit again (some have returned multiple times, on new accounts). Most recently, last November I had a friend return after not playing since SoD (he was the ranger half of a ranger-cleric duo so when his wife quit (over mercs), so did he). I gave him his character back and he didn't recognize her. When he quit, she was level 63 with the basic archery focused AA done and when he logged her in, she was 90 with a little over 3k AA. Oh yeah and she was a 'she' not a 'he' anymore. Even though I cleared that with him years ago (shortly after he gave me the account), it can be quite a shock to see it for yourself. Anyhow, he and his wife played the ranger (the wife didn't want to touch her cleric, even when I offered it to her, because she said she'd have to relearn how to heal and people might die during the process), most of the time with me, for a little over a month. Then they quit again, citing the game's focus on "min/maxing" (mod2s, mod3s, focus effect variation, etc). Like, if you don't know soft/hard or effective caps, you could actually be downgrading your gear by choosing an item with more of a known stat because of some other benefit provided that makes the item you have better than the one you just picked up. For example, if your avoidance is capped and you "upgrade" to an item that gives you more hp or mana or end, it could wind up being a net loss because of the loss of avoidance (like hexeez alluded to). Or you swap to an item with more hp or ac but with a lesser focus effect (like going from a raid focus to a group focus from a newer expansion). For example, an Underfoot raid focus to a HoT group focus. And this is one example of many. So yes, I've seen examples of the game's complexity scaring people off. I happen to like complexity in games (it's why I still play EVE) but the whole "accessibility revolution" started by WoW has led people away from that. There are people in EQ who think that group gear should never surpass the stats/benefit of raid gear (even when that raid gear is 4 expansions old!). Had one friend who burned out on Two Gods in TBS and came back last anniversary to find gear five levels above him (Abstruse) outclassed his raid gear, saying that never happened in EQ before (except he's wrong. PoP's elemental gear completely outclassed Kael/Skyshrine armor and even ornate did, for some classes, and that was only a 2 expansion/5 level jump).
I would agree that a lack of a 'mid game' (as it used to be called, with guilds that raided 2-3 expansion old content) contributes to the lack of retention (or 'stickiness' as Sippin called it). Those guilds tended to prepare people for any steep ramp-ups in content difficulty, as well as keeping the higher end guilds stocked when folks felt ready to make that jump. Nowadays, those guilds don't exist (they were probably killed by PoP's expansion of raid sizes and never recovered) so people have no real place to learn the ropes. This creates the shock factor of expansion content difficulty. I think restoring the mid game would be the one thing that the EQ devs could do to improve the game's retention (of both new and returning players). There has to be a "training tier" to help folks smooth out increases in difficulty, especially for the so-called "casual player" who isn't at all engaged into the game's stats (and their implications). Back in the day, there were always people in guild who could advise you on what you should be focused on, statwise. Now all people have really is general chat and that's questionable.
Rendition
Cazic Thule
Maxim
Firiona Vie
Collusion
Test
Cazic Thule
Maxim
Firiona Vie
Collusion
Test
Wonder how many started to try a differnt class and restarted at level 1?
SOE killed (intentionally or not) the sub-80 game to a large extent. They realized this and reacted with things like auto-granting AA and a free heroic character but those are designed to quickly usher people into the 80+ level game. Someone who returns from a lengthy absence is remembering and nostalgic for a game that is long dead: Orc highway, pitched battles in the Sarnak fort, Avatar of War raids, whatever. They remember the social aspects of it because that's what really made it memorable, not hitting auto-attack and waiting on a CHeal rotation. There is no social aspect to that game any longer.
Edit: Add to this, Defiant Gear which is great for again pushing people to the 80+ game ASAP but makes all those old camps you remember worthless to spend time at aside from a few brief "Yeah, I remember Frenzied Ghoul" moments.
Where the game starts is vastly different and alien to the old returning player. Tons of AA, confusing focus effects on gear, ranked spells, yadda yadda. And, again, on this front if you're effectively learning a whole new game then you're competing against twenty other MMORPGs that are newer and shinier and without the intimidating learning curve. So people come back, kick around legacy zones for a time, start to scrape up against the "real game" and drop out. Neither disappointing nostalgia nor a blast of confusing mechanics were sufficient to retain them.
Edited, May 8th 2014 11:50am by Jophiel
Edit: Add to this, Defiant Gear which is great for again pushing people to the 80+ game ASAP but makes all those old camps you remember worthless to spend time at aside from a few brief "Yeah, I remember Frenzied Ghoul" moments.
Where the game starts is vastly different and alien to the old returning player. Tons of AA, confusing focus effects on gear, ranked spells, yadda yadda. And, again, on this front if you're effectively learning a whole new game then you're competing against twenty other MMORPGs that are newer and shinier and without the intimidating learning curve. So people come back, kick around legacy zones for a time, start to scrape up against the "real game" and drop out. Neither disappointing nostalgia nor a blast of confusing mechanics were sufficient to retain them.
Edited, May 8th 2014 11:50am by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Larth wrote:
Wonder how many started to try a differnt class and restarted at level 1?
I did. Twice.
First time I returned last year for a month, then my comp died.
I rolled a human bard. Actually I was really confused then about mercenary system - how can one learn to play his class like that?
In CR I saw a n00b ranger killing red mobs. What I mean is a tank merc tanked a mob, ranger stood safely out of harm's reach and shooted arrows. I was like "what is this game?!"
I decided go without a merc and so I did. Old way, in old zones all alone. I never saw a soul in LOIO, once so popular and growded, where I meet lots of friends and had tons of fun. All sarnaks were mine now
It was'nt easy and quick way, but I enjoyed it and learned what my bard is capable of. For my disappointment I discovered SOE has nerfed bards, but whatever...
When I returned second time this year I had my old account back, but I felt I wanna experience all this n00b exitement again and get familiar with game before I'll run my lvl 65 and lvl 52 chars again.
So I rolled a necro. I understood that if I wanna catch up with modern EQ, I have to get a merc. I got one at lvl 10.
I really LOVE this class! Necro is a blast
It was all fun till it lasted, because then March 26th came - last day to upgrade one char to Hero for free. I wanted to try this out as I know it would take lots of time to level one toon so high and I have not as much play time as I use to have years ago.
I decided to upgrade my baby necro. She was lvl 31 then. First choice was my main - lvl 65 shammy, but I picked necro because of this time thing. Other reason was I did'nt want to miss any step on the journey with my shammy.
I have to say it was right decision. I looked at this heroic necro, all those spells, AA's and armor. I felt like a stone age man holding an iPhone. This was still my baby necro but I did'nt recognize her at all. I tried this and that here and there, but I did'nt feel comfortable.
Since then I have used her only for gearing up my old toons, farming plat and scouting zones not familiar for me. I hope it will change one day cause I really like this class.
Edited, May 8th 2014 2:51pm by Surimuri
Edited, May 8th 2014 3:37pm by Surimuri
Man, that's heavy. Seriously! You struck the nail on the head. I guess it all comes down to "you can never go back", which applies to a lot in life, unfortunately. It's... bittersweet!
Sippin 115 DRU **** Firiona Vie ****Agnarr
FV: 115 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ SHD SHM Master Alchemist ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
Master Artisan (300+) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
Agnarr: 65 DRU ENC SHD MAG CLE ROG WIZ BRD WAR
FV: 115 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ SHD SHM Master Alchemist ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
Master Artisan (300+) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
Agnarr: 65 DRU ENC SHD MAG CLE ROG WIZ BRD WAR
Larth wrote:
Wonder how many started to try a differnt class and restarted at level 1?
Two times when I returned, I started from scratch. First with a High Elf Paladin (2008?) and then with a Half Elf Druid (a year after the Paladin). I specifically chose those races because, back in the day, they were considered the worst races for those classes (almost. The only race worse than High Elf for Paladin was Erudite. And of course, Halfling and Wood Elf were the only viable Druid races). I was mad at myself for missing the heyday of monster missions (when DoDh first came out, you could level from 1-65 and hundreds of AA in a few hours of chaining MMs since they had no lockout and were easy to complete. Some you could complete in less than 10 minutes....for 1-5 levels worth of XP under 50. HighKeep was so crowded with people, it would crash at least once a day) so after that craze died down (and MMs were repeatedly nerfed nearly to oblivion), I came back when the dust was clearing. It wasn't the same though because I had been playing other MMOs, many of which shared/stole some of EQ's features (and polished them up) so it wasn't as foreign to me as it might've been to someone who quit EQ and played WoW extensively for years. Also, when things got frustrating, I'd re-sub another account with a higher level character (usually a priest of some kind) and PL myself out of that range. I actually LIKED having entire zones to myself, even when I didn't have a higher level bodyguard.
I would completely agree though. The innocence of the first few years is long gone. I mean, saving up for a Combine weapon and then getting killed by GrimFeather (and one of his griffenne whores) right before you got to the gypsy camp? That would break many players nowadays.
Larth wrote:
Wonder how many started to try a different class and restarted at level 1?
I'm a bit of a returner... there's at least 4-5 minor returns I won't list as the characters didn't break 50 before I unsubbed.
1st time: restarted as a beastlord Iksar played only in Luclin 1-20, then Kunark 20-51. This is before OOC regen, ect. SLOW... Fun, well until 51 and it sucked and I ran out of interest lol.
2nd time: longer break... TSS was the latest expac but not early in it. I went back to enchanter but started from level 1. Got to 55 and epic 1.0 in a progression-style guild. Guild imploded.
3rd time: broke my multi-year vow to never kite. rolled a necro. played 1-55 and piled a ton of AA. Took a short break, got to 65 piled AA to at least 1000. Moved character to FV early on when those free transfer opened. Got a pile of the dream gear I had never even smelt before let alone had a hope of looting. Played heavy to 77 and 2500ish AA.
4th time: actually interrupted the Necro, but memory is foggy. Mayong server did a monk 51-65. Put on a fair AA count at 65 then my brother quit and my reason for being on that server...
5th time: Banner the Troll Sk from 1-27 very old school and rather slow lol... got sidetracked happily by the Lunar Mutants and did a druid 1-55 and basically realized that I like being a 55 druid in a newb zone helping people but have no interest in soloing the class or progression it.
Top that off... I'm alt mad so I have literally dozens of potential rerolls that got started but not taken somewhere significant (or standing out as "the character" I played in that stretch.)
OMG so many informative posts in this thread I don't know where to start, but this caught my eye;
The above is the creeping problem that is staring me in the face. My main is a 76 SK with 420 AA's, so I'm approaching, level-wise, a fork in the road with regard to gear, strategy, where and how to level. I'm refusing the 'free aa's' option on all my characters. I'm old school that way, but I don't mind the struggle.
My main question is, what kind of gear is available after defiant? I guess I've become somewhat dependent on it. The only type I've heard of is something called energeaic, but I have no idea where to find it or how good it is.
Could someone maybe list perhaps 3 or 4 types or 'families' of gear that you should move up to after defiant (in order, along with what character levels its best used with)? That would at least give me a jumping off point from where to begin. Thanks!
Quote:
I think that when some returning players with little or no in game resources (such as: active guild, hi lvl friend(s) or box set with plat galore and gold/all access account) hit HOT expansion after just levelling solo w/mercs to that point...They hit a brick wall unless they know exactly where their character should be re gear, AA's- incl AA placement etc and know what kind of dps the mobs put out.
They may even find they get to lvl 90 with no issues as they could easily find Heroic characters LFG in Feerrott-Dream, but after that soft area hunting ground is past relevance and the lvl90 content bottlenecks and becomes more linear they need to hit other zones within the expansion ie Tier 2 zones like Erudin Burning.. If unprepared, they wipe, then wipe again and if the wrong group set up with no proper tank and cc or pulling, there is no easy way to advance for them...While if they skip content or massing AA's and decide to take a ride (plvl) to 95, it would be worse in VOA for them.This, if they don't have any of the "resources" I had mentioned earlier.
In my opinion the lack of a group game population at their sub 90 levels (if un-guilded or not in an active guild) hits many returnees hard somewhere around that expansions content and they lose interest after seeing a tank they thought was sufficient be one rounded from a trash mob with maybe one add.
They may even find they get to lvl 90 with no issues as they could easily find Heroic characters LFG in Feerrott-Dream, but after that soft area hunting ground is past relevance and the lvl90 content bottlenecks and becomes more linear they need to hit other zones within the expansion ie Tier 2 zones like Erudin Burning.. If unprepared, they wipe, then wipe again and if the wrong group set up with no proper tank and cc or pulling, there is no easy way to advance for them...While if they skip content or massing AA's and decide to take a ride (plvl) to 95, it would be worse in VOA for them.This, if they don't have any of the "resources" I had mentioned earlier.
In my opinion the lack of a group game population at their sub 90 levels (if un-guilded or not in an active guild) hits many returnees hard somewhere around that expansions content and they lose interest after seeing a tank they thought was sufficient be one rounded from a trash mob with maybe one add.
The above is the creeping problem that is staring me in the face. My main is a 76 SK with 420 AA's, so I'm approaching, level-wise, a fork in the road with regard to gear, strategy, where and how to level. I'm refusing the 'free aa's' option on all my characters. I'm old school that way, but I don't mind the struggle.
My main question is, what kind of gear is available after defiant? I guess I've become somewhat dependent on it. The only type I've heard of is something called energeaic, but I have no idea where to find it or how good it is.
Could someone maybe list perhaps 3 or 4 types or 'families' of gear that you should move up to after defiant (in order, along with what character levels its best used with)? That would at least give me a jumping off point from where to begin. Thanks!
If you can't do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly.
My Rathe / Prexus characters:
Bigbronze Bloodyaxe, 62 Ogre Berserker
Verbeeg Bearfang, 62 Ogre Beastlord
Glabrezu Spiritcaller, 62 Ogre Shaman
Zirumkin Zenomorph, 62 Gnome Wizard
Korgulon Soulwraith, 76 Ogre Shadowknight <Shining Alliance>
Incarnadine Summoner, 65 Drakkin Magician
Bristlebane characters:
Zalkahriz Ebonscale, 64 Iksar Necromancer
Gnomorre Gniceguy, 55 Gnome Rogue
Whytfire Lonewolf, 55 Woodelf Ranger
My Rathe / Prexus characters:
Bigbronze Bloodyaxe, 62 Ogre Berserker
Verbeeg Bearfang, 62 Ogre Beastlord
Glabrezu Spiritcaller, 62 Ogre Shaman
Zirumkin Zenomorph, 62 Gnome Wizard
Korgulon Soulwraith, 76 Ogre Shadowknight <Shining Alliance>
Incarnadine Summoner, 65 Drakkin Magician
Bristlebane characters:
Zalkahriz Ebonscale, 64 Iksar Necromancer
Gnomorre Gniceguy, 55 Gnome Rogue
Whytfire Lonewolf, 55 Woodelf Ranger
You're in purgatory. You're too high for one set (athlai/othni) and too low for another (abstruse). The energeaic armor set that was recommended to you is raid gear (which I don't think you can just outright buy except on FV). There is a group set but honestly, it's not worth getting. Again, due to the level purgatory you currently reside in, my advice would be to stick it out until 80. Abstruse Darktouch would give you such an incredible increase in power that it would literally make any armor you get now, completely useless/obsolete. So if you don't mind 4 more levels of 'struggle', I'd wait until 80 to upgrade armor. However, if you choose not to opt-in to autogrant, I would stay at 80 until I got 1700-2000 AA done. SKs can be extremely AA heavy due to their "need" (subjective) for tank skills AND caster skills and those skills tend to be expensive.
Edited, May 10th 2014 2:09pm by Remianen
Edited, May 10th 2014 2:09pm by Remianen
Thanks for the info Remainen - so abstruse is what I need. I had heard that lvl 80 was the 'gateway' to the high levels in terms of power and abilities, and after looking at the abstruse stats, I see why.
It looks like it's crafted but not no drop, so theoretically it could be bought in the bazaar? I shudder to think of the price though. I think this type of gear would hold any player up until level 90? I honestly am batting in the dark when it comes to high level skills and strategy. And I am assuming that I'll be back to old school when it comes to getting gear for the 'non visible' gear slots? I was assuming abstruse is not available for those slots.
And it looks like from the description that there may be 'class specific' types of abstruse, not sure on that yet. Need to research this some more.
See, it's the complexity, the sheer vastness of detail, of data, of stuff, that can make EQ intimidating for the average new player. I like the challenge, but even after all these years I still need help with my gear (limited play time hasn't helped). Can't imagine how the truly new players are getting by.
Take care.
Edited, May 10th 2014 5:57pm by zirumkin
It looks like it's crafted but not no drop, so theoretically it could be bought in the bazaar? I shudder to think of the price though. I think this type of gear would hold any player up until level 90? I honestly am batting in the dark when it comes to high level skills and strategy. And I am assuming that I'll be back to old school when it comes to getting gear for the 'non visible' gear slots? I was assuming abstruse is not available for those slots.
And it looks like from the description that there may be 'class specific' types of abstruse, not sure on that yet. Need to research this some more.
See, it's the complexity, the sheer vastness of detail, of data, of stuff, that can make EQ intimidating for the average new player. I like the challenge, but even after all these years I still need help with my gear (limited play time hasn't helped). Can't imagine how the truly new players are getting by.
Take care.
Edited, May 10th 2014 5:57pm by zirumkin
If you can't do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly.
My Rathe / Prexus characters:
Bigbronze Bloodyaxe, 62 Ogre Berserker
Verbeeg Bearfang, 62 Ogre Beastlord
Glabrezu Spiritcaller, 62 Ogre Shaman
Zirumkin Zenomorph, 62 Gnome Wizard
Korgulon Soulwraith, 76 Ogre Shadowknight <Shining Alliance>
Incarnadine Summoner, 65 Drakkin Magician
Bristlebane characters:
Zalkahriz Ebonscale, 64 Iksar Necromancer
Gnomorre Gniceguy, 55 Gnome Rogue
Whytfire Lonewolf, 55 Woodelf Ranger
My Rathe / Prexus characters:
Bigbronze Bloodyaxe, 62 Ogre Berserker
Verbeeg Bearfang, 62 Ogre Beastlord
Glabrezu Spiritcaller, 62 Ogre Shaman
Zirumkin Zenomorph, 62 Gnome Wizard
Korgulon Soulwraith, 76 Ogre Shadowknight <Shining Alliance>
Incarnadine Summoner, 65 Drakkin Magician
Bristlebane characters:
Zalkahriz Ebonscale, 64 Iksar Necromancer
Gnomorre Gniceguy, 55 Gnome Rogue
Whytfire Lonewolf, 55 Woodelf Ranger
I'd go with Remianen's suggestion all the way...
Also, if you have the plat you can purchase the Abstruse armor in the bazaar. From selling them and purchasing pieces on my alt army ,the Chest piece should not be more than 30 KPP while the others should be in the 10K to around 15 KPP ish for the legs and sometimes arms pieces. But I have noticed a creeping up of prices or inflation across the board, correlating with the rise in price of the Krono over the last few months. Kronos once selling for 300KPP are now priced as high as 690KPP on my server.
If plat is tight atm, another temporary option at lvl 80 is the "Terror Infused" line of gear, from HOT expansion also (though not as good as the Abstruse), it is dropped from mobs, including some trash mobs in Feerrott- Dream and other HOT t1 zones, for all of the pieces except the Battle Skirt (leg slot) which comes from a quest iirc. So that leg piece should be the most rare and expensive in the terror line of gear, if purchasing in the bazaar. All other pieces should be around 5-10 KPP imho, however there are no wrist pieces in the line for some reason. So you still have to go with abstruse in the wrist slots if going the Terror Infused way initially.
A link of a piece of Terror Infused gear (chestpiece) : https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=90308
I agree ..Great thread OP - Sippin ! It's one of those threads where I have read and enjoyed every single post from top to bottom, no matter how long the thread gets.
Edit: Forgot to add, Get a HOT weapon asap at lvl 80. It had noticeably increased my SK's DPS as soon as I equipped it when it was at lvl 85 !
Edited, May 10th 2014 5:35pm by hexeez
Also, if you have the plat you can purchase the Abstruse armor in the bazaar. From selling them and purchasing pieces on my alt army ,the Chest piece should not be more than 30 KPP while the others should be in the 10K to around 15 KPP ish for the legs and sometimes arms pieces. But I have noticed a creeping up of prices or inflation across the board, correlating with the rise in price of the Krono over the last few months. Kronos once selling for 300KPP are now priced as high as 690KPP on my server.
If plat is tight atm, another temporary option at lvl 80 is the "Terror Infused" line of gear, from HOT expansion also (though not as good as the Abstruse), it is dropped from mobs, including some trash mobs in Feerrott- Dream and other HOT t1 zones, for all of the pieces except the Battle Skirt (leg slot) which comes from a quest iirc. So that leg piece should be the most rare and expensive in the terror line of gear, if purchasing in the bazaar. All other pieces should be around 5-10 KPP imho, however there are no wrist pieces in the line for some reason. So you still have to go with abstruse in the wrist slots if going the Terror Infused way initially.
A link of a piece of Terror Infused gear (chestpiece) : https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=90308
I agree ..Great thread OP - Sippin ! It's one of those threads where I have read and enjoyed every single post from top to bottom, no matter how long the thread gets.
Edit: Forgot to add, Get a HOT weapon asap at lvl 80. It had noticeably increased my SK's DPS as soon as I equipped it when it was at lvl 85 !
Edited, May 10th 2014 5:35pm by hexeez
Thanks for the info hexees - that was you I quoted in my post above too (forgot to notate you - oops).
Got all this written down on my index cards and I'm collecting info.
So energeaic is raid only. So much for that I guess. Actually the Abstruse armor has such good stats that I can't complain, but some of you have posted some really ominous stuff about what we're going to be facing. But, the game is a journey, and I welcome it.
P.S. Loved reading all the 'comeback' stories above!
Have a good weekend.
If you can't do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly.
My Rathe / Prexus characters:
Bigbronze Bloodyaxe, 62 Ogre Berserker
Verbeeg Bearfang, 62 Ogre Beastlord
Glabrezu Spiritcaller, 62 Ogre Shaman
Zirumkin Zenomorph, 62 Gnome Wizard
Korgulon Soulwraith, 76 Ogre Shadowknight <Shining Alliance>
Incarnadine Summoner, 65 Drakkin Magician
Bristlebane characters:
Zalkahriz Ebonscale, 64 Iksar Necromancer
Gnomorre Gniceguy, 55 Gnome Rogue
Whytfire Lonewolf, 55 Woodelf Ranger
My Rathe / Prexus characters:
Bigbronze Bloodyaxe, 62 Ogre Berserker
Verbeeg Bearfang, 62 Ogre Beastlord
Glabrezu Spiritcaller, 62 Ogre Shaman
Zirumkin Zenomorph, 62 Gnome Wizard
Korgulon Soulwraith, 76 Ogre Shadowknight <Shining Alliance>
Incarnadine Summoner, 65 Drakkin Magician
Bristlebane characters:
Zalkahriz Ebonscale, 64 Iksar Necromancer
Gnomorre Gniceguy, 55 Gnome Rogue
Whytfire Lonewolf, 55 Woodelf Ranger
Scholar
29 posts
Larth wrote:
Wonder how many started to try a differnt class and restarted at level 1?
I have done this many, many times. I always seem to return to my Beastlord however. The 1-60 grind eventually wears one down.
hexeez wrote:
Edit: Forgot to add, Get a HOT weapon asap at lvl 80. It had noticeably increased my SK's DPS as soon as I equipped it when it was at lvl 85 !
Edited, May 10th 2014 5:35pm by hexeez
Edited, May 10th 2014 5:35pm by hexeez
Yep! Jumping Axe and Quilaztli's Cutlass are HUGE upgrades over what was available prior to HoT. Plus, given the increased activity in Feerott the Dream, there should be tons of them available in bazaar for dirt cheap.
Remianen wrote:
hexeez wrote:
Edit: Forgot to add, Get a HOT weapon asap at lvl 80. It had noticeably increased my SK's DPS as soon as I equipped it when it was at lvl 85 !
Edited, May 10th 2014 5:35pm by hexeez
Edited, May 10th 2014 5:35pm by hexeez
Yep! Jumping Axe and Quilaztli's Cutlass are HUGE upgrades over what was available prior to HoT. Plus, given the increased activity in Feerott the Dream, there should be tons of them available in bazaar for dirt cheap.
Hah. Yeah. Ridiculous damage increase with those weapons. Nicely synergize with the shield specialist AA line as well btw. I used those weapons until I got some even more ridiculous VOA 2hs weapon (I'm actually blanking on the name though). It's kinda shocking how fast and steep the power level is in that last 20 levels.
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