Gauging Interest in a Progression GuildFollow

I am currently gauging interest for a possible progression guild! While I know there are several established progression guilds already running; (6 in total not counting progression servers that I know of) I am, personally, interested in starting from the beginning. I am also aware that there have been several posts of start up progression guilds in the Everquest forums. However, every single one in the past month or so seemed to have vanished quicker than it sprang up. And, judging by the responses on those threads, there are people interested. So, instead of just jumping into the frey, creating a guild and seeing where it leads, I am going to see if enough people are interested this way. In this way, all of the founding members will have a say in everything from the start. From guild name, to basic policies, to raid nights and just what raid targets we will start with.

To be clear, I am aware of how "hard" it is to raid old world content until instanced raid zones. I don't care. I enjoy a bit of a challenge and while I would like to hit every old world target, I also understand that skipping content might be required. If you also want a challenge, then I would like to hear from you. I am aware of the various changes in the game that might perhaps tip the scales in an inappropriate way (in terms of spells, gear or AA abilities) but, I do have ideas on how to combat those without getting making things too complicated.

The idea behind what, I believe, a lot of people out there want... Is a quasi-raiding guild, semi-casual, fun and inviting atmosphere while getting their raid fix in. And, I want those things too. So, without further adieu, let me get things started by explaining what I am looking for at this time.

Right now, I am looking for people in the America's that can raid at night, around 2 to 3 nights a week, starting around 6pm PST to around 12pm PST (or in Europe as well provided you are on during those times). I am looking for those that are interested in a bit of a challenge, because lets face it... if we want to start in any expansion before OoW, then it'll be a challenge finding targets in the old world. I am also looking for strong individuals motivated enough to help get things started, discuss progression paths and/or requirements, knowledgeable or level headed enough to find information and research to aid those who can't, or to aid in officer discussion on how we would want things to be. I want people willing to participate in active discussions, being officer related or guild wide discussions, and people willing to pitch in.

If you are one of those that started a progression guild earlier and have been unable to get any momentum going, then I want to hear from you as well. With the 3 progression guilds on test that sprung up in the last month, I am sure all of us could get something started here.

Most importantly, I am a family man. So, I am looking for those willing to run things with me since I will not be able to be present for all events and/or emergencies. If you are interested in being an officer, then lets talk. I have no quarrel with sharing leadership of a guild. I only ask that all decisions be discussed by either all officers or members where appropriate.
My ultimate goal, is to take this guild from humble beginnings, all the way to the latest and greatest content available. Past that, well... anything can happen :)

If any of this stirs interest in you, I want to hear from you. Drop me a message or reply here and lets talk. I do have resources outside of the game to get this moving, but right now, I am an army of one. Join me, and lets go on this grand adventure called Everquest.

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Based on questions I have received in other forums, I want to clarify a few things real quick.

The times listed above are my personal availability. Guild event times will be determined once the "core" is established and will be based off of everyone's availability as a whole.

I have not chosen a server (as I want everyone involved in this project to have a say) however currently, everyone currently interested is leaning on the Test server for a variety of reasons.

As of now, everyone is going through me for information (this project is only 2 days old) however, once I get a few more people interested, I will be opening up a private forum to open up discussion topics. No decisions are finalized as of yet and will be open to everyone part of the founding for input.

Thanks Allakhazam (or ZAM if that's what you prefer these days, I'm old school)!

UPDATE: The private forums are nearing completion. If you have invested interest please stand by for a URL and instructions to the forums. While we are limiting our numbers at this stage to ensure a productive environment to the planning/discussion stage, we do still have spots open. If you are interested, it's not too late. PM me or leave a reply here and I will check availability and get back to you.

Edited, Dec 21st 2013 3:49pm by Shozo

Thanks for the info Snailish.

We have yet to finalize any rules and plans but for the most part, we'll try to keep things relative to the era.

The xp perk on test has it's ups and downs for sure, and while that isn't set in stone yet i am anticipating that it will be. Our reasoning is that since we're a group of working individuals (mostly) the xp bonus will help those falling behind to catch up faster. We also don't plan on advancing as fast as possible giving those with less play time plenty of time to get all caught up. However, the new information on Trak is something we will discuss in detail!

Since you are in a prog style guild, I have a question for you. If there was one thing you would do differently, what would it be?

Well, I'm in an odd sort of prog guild at the moment, as we all basically decided we would live in Luclin for a bit and not use newer gear. We got 5-6 weeks out of that until the more active players were maxed out for useful level 60 AA.

We decided to add Odus to our mix, which gave us some older content to play in (Warrens, The Hole) as well as the LoY stuff do for variety and upgrades. We've included The Buried Sea as well, but no one has gotten past 65 to need it in the month we've been there.

We all started this with no expectation for it to last more than 2 weeks, so it's a no regret situation.

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If I was dedicated to starting a new prog guild, I would have very clear stages/guidelines in mind. I'd make the guild on one of the newer servers (if silver members could play on Vulak I would use it because it is lower pop and not up to the current content).

I would consider having the guild flag PVP (on a regular server) as this removes the ability for outside help, almost a gang initiation I suppose. It also add the wrinkle of being able to damage each other with AoE if not careful (my brother and I have dabbled with this in the past... pvp flag is fun).

I suppose it depends on whether the Luclin/Odus thing has run its course or not. The holiday break/lull seems to have flattened our momentum, so I really can't predict.

I play EST so I usually miss out on the bulk of the playerbase anyways as everyone is just logging in as I am looking to get out, certainly in respects to organized target stuff (granted something starting 6-7 pst wouldn't be horrible for me).

What actual "ruleset" are you proposing as that can make a huge difference. People usually assume "Progression Guild" means sticking to era locks for content and gear (including newer gear dropping in old zones such as hotzone stuff), no fast travel or baz until the correct expac opens, and not using Station Cash/LoN to boost ahead of the era. Usually there is a timeframe or progression outline as well. Example:

Phase 1: Original world, level to 50 and put Naggy and Vox on Farm. Variation: Go to level 52, feel free to purchase the mostly not powerful AA that open up at 51. Stay at Naggy and Vox until a significant # in the guild is ready for the next step (many prog guilds fail for having part of the guild move too fast... the fast levellers/heavier playtimers need to be willing to dabble in quests, burn up AA room on less worthy AA, farm gear, tradeskill or play alts [or any combo thereof]. Once you start leaving people behind, you are shrinking. Note: Holding at the Vox/Naggy kill stage is an attractive entry point for latecomers.

Phase 2: Kunark, level to 60, Epic 1.0 are a challenge. Are the 55, 59 and 60 AA and spells allowed? Epic 1.0 can be a guild eater, but also a huge attraction point to people (doing it at level 60 is cool vs. level 78 solo). Waiting for others is much nicer in Kunark as the world is so much bigger, with stuff to do (like faction up with Cabilis and do their quests if you are a compatible class).

Phase 3: Velious. This is the committment test, since real progression means doing the Ring War, and Prayer Shawl (for some classes). Really doing Velious means doing all 3 factions in a planned order (to max gear for all classes). Tackling Plane of Growth would be a standout goal. Sleeper's Tomb is highly unlikely at level 60 without solid numbers. Even with the modern regen/spells and such that a prog guild has to live with.

Phase 4: Luclin Since I'm currently dabbling in this content with a looser progression (we use PoK, Guild hall, etc.) bunch of people, I can say that mob HP alone dictates a decent sized force (mini-named in Umbral Plains represent our top-tier we can do without mercs). Otherwise a progression guild is better off halting at Velious and being masters of the classic trilogy. Some reroll appeal for those that like Vah Shir or want a new newbie progression in Luclin though I suppose.

Phase 5: Planes of Power If a progression guild gets this far, then they have a serious raiding core. You're not doing much in PoP at level 65 otherwise (without mercs). On TLP they opened LoY and Ldon with PoP I believe... which actually is a good fit, as they fill the missing "group and casual" content hole. PoP can kill a prog guild fast, ironically LDoN can be a rallying point. Most prog guilds don't seem to make it this far though, and the ones that do are still going so a person is almost better off to just catch up and join in.

Variation: I've seen up to Velious as the start, locking at Luclin is also viable. One Prog guild I was in was purely level locks... do whatever you wanted. Gear was restricted to TSS and earlier. Guild targets were done era by era... worked great for 52 dragon killing, The Hole, Epic 1.0 and such... but they made the mistake of leaping from 52 to 65 and poof... down went the guild.

In my experience, this is the biggest problem facing any progression guilds in the current game. When you have people of different playstyles and playing times, this is the one thing that can hose the whole operation.

When the first set of progression servers opened, this is what killed many of the guilds that started up there. It became such an issue that literally all of the high playtime players on The Combine had only one guild to choose from (Realm of Insanity). In my experience with progression guilds, this has been the single most polarizing issue. As an example, when properly motivated, I can play 18 hours a day (I work from home and my play computers are about 2 feet away from my work computer) and that sabotaged my earliest progression guild experiences. I was one of those people who seemed to go from 50 to 60 in a day (wasn't nearly that fast but you get the picture). Meanwhile, the rest of the guild is logging in two to three times a week and getting discouraged because 'nothing is up' when they log in. I often joke that I may be one of the few people who can say Greig's gravel rain destroyed a guild I was a part of (1 group of 60s, 5 groups of mid 50s, two clerics, all in era-appropriate gear = no shot at beating him, in this case).

So yeah, the single most challenging issue for progression guilds, in my experience, is varying levels of commitment. Some people are gung ho and will jump in with both feet. These are generally the people who find themselves pushing up against the imposed caps (whether level or gear or overall character progression) in "record time" with the majority of the guild seemingly years behind. Be careful about making these people your core. Speaking as one of them, it becomes increasingly frustrating to see progression stunted through no fault of your own and if these people leave/give up (and they're your core), it's often disastrous for the rest of the guild. It can go from breaking into Vex Thal....to wiping repeatedly to Vindi while being pushed to the limit merely keeping Kael Arena cleared. People will fall off no matter what you do (that's just the nature of progression guilds in older MMOs - the same issue occurs in Anarchy Online, for example). Prepare for that and keep that in mind while planning things.

Also, answer questions directly. When someone asks, "What class does the guild need?", do not be rote and say, "Play whatever class you like best". Otherwise, you'll wind up with a guild full of SKs and Rangers and Necros and almost zero clerics. Another mistake I've seen progression guilds make is not remembering that "classic" content revolved around how many clerics you have. Not 'healers' (Druids and Shaman didn't get effective healing upgrades until TSS at the earliest), clerics. Problem is, during those days, without a group, playing a cleric was BORING.

No matter what server you play on, some of the game's advances will speed up your play no matter what. The one that comes to mind immediately is OOC regen. Having leveled a wizard to 60 during the Velious/Luclin period (when KEI made casters into gods), I can tell you that 'waiting for mana' does not occur anymore. With era-appropriate gear, casters will have mana puddles compared to the mana pools that are possible with defiant gear (remember, non-raid gear in the 40s and 50s didn't even approach 100hme while it shatters that barrier at level 37 with 'Flawed' defiant). Maps, will also change things. I won't mention the obvious like PoK but it's little things that people often ignore that will subtly change the experience in ways you wouldn't really notice. Custom UIs are an example. Remember the original EQ UI? It told you NOTHING compared to today's UIs. Aggro meter? Extended target window? Custom gauges telling you everything from health and mana percentages (for yourself AND groupmates AND anyone you target) to XP percentages? Inventory windows that collect every bit of personal information (mod2s, mod3s, and all related other stats)? I wouldn't discard Test as a possible destination. It's one of the few places with benefits that far outweigh its downsides. Playing on a low pop server at silver level is fine, until you progress to the Luclin stage and are locked out of full use of bazaar. Some of your players will gold-up and not be affected, but that gulf may cause more problems than might be obvious now. One of the reasons Test is usually the first option for many similar guilds is because the XP bonus pretty much ensures that your most casual players can still keep up with the vanguard of the guild, which can be important for keeping folks together. The server pop is small enough that you'll have plenty of targets (Talendor has been up for like four days, I believe, as an example) and, perhaps even better, you'll have competition for those targets. I don't know about anyone else, but I sorely miss spawn racing and the sense of urgency that comes from knowing that the mob you're after is also desired by other guilds. Rather than logging in and going from instance to instance at your leisure, having to log out in a specific place so you'll be in position for the next day's targets and having to have your (stuff) together or lose out, was great motivation. It was a rush logging in, doing my /who all "competing guild" cleric and moving. Buff, kill, move to next target. During the Velious period, it was great hitting Klandicar then Sontalak (Esorpa of the Ring was almost ALWAYS pathing in front while we were setting up so we killed her too!) then Keeper then North Wing and then taking the people who just got keyed into Sleeper's Tomb.

You might also want to bar marketplace and LoN items as well as most claims. Remember that limited inventory space was also a downside of the classic periods and some of the early LoN items (mounts, Kiss of Erollisi Marr, Rodcet scale, Nagafen familiar, etc) and even some of the claim mounts (Lava Braxi comes to mind) give a lot of power relative to the time.

That's all I got (I think )

We are expecting things to be easier and faster than we remember (no hell levels is a great example) and currently discussing methods to slow down when content is "unlocked" for the guild.

There are still some spots open, if anyone is interested, PM me to see what we are doing.

There are a few people interested in taking on tradeskills. With our slowed down approach to tradeskills we are anticipating some headway for things like ringwars and shawl fights later on. If you would like to join the discussion let me know.