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Shooting themselves in the foot?Follow

#1 Mar 13 2012 at 3:54 PM Rating: Default
With F2P, I was going to start playing this again... until I saw that it's impossible to use journeyman mercenaries with any form of free account. Why would they try to make something as deal-breaking as that an incentive for gold? Makes no sense to me.
#2 Mar 13 2012 at 5:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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The point of F2P is to bring back long-lost players...

There are several restrictions, of which, this is a necessary one, I wouldn't expect a person who is playing for free to get the same benefits as me, a paying member of the community.

You still get to use A mercernary, just not the best one, why would you assume to get the best one? Honestly.

Edited, Mar 13th 2012 8:00pm by LuckyPoseidon

Edited, Mar 13th 2012 8:58pm by LuckyPoseidon
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#3 Mar 13 2012 at 6:05 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with Lucky
#4 Mar 13 2012 at 10:33 PM Rating: Default
First of all, a lot of returning players are people who already purchased the expansion that released mercenaries & bought them as journeymen. Secondly, even if they didn't restrict mercenaries, you still would be getting more benefits than a non-subscriber. Something as integral as the mercenary system shouldn't be compromised if they want to retain the players they are about to draw in.
#5 Mar 14 2012 at 12:20 AM Rating: Good
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You might not like the answer, but I would assume they aren't terribly concerned about retaining anyone looking for a 100% free experience. I'm sure their idea is that if you miss any specific feature badly enough as a F2Per, you'll either go gold or buy something from the marketplace to access it. If it is someone not willing to do so, there isn't exactly much profit to be had there.

Edit: at a glance of the newest F2P Q&A it seems Journeyman mercs might actually not be an unlockable purchase, but I would personally be surprised if this doesn't change once they realize what a moneymaker it could be.

Edited, Mar 14th 2012 1:39am by Saeel
#6 Mar 14 2012 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
Inida wrote:
With F2P, I was going to start playing this again... until I saw that it's impossible to use journeyman mercenaries with any form of free account. Why would they try to make something as deal-breaking as that an incentive for gold? Makes no sense to me.


How is that deal breaking? You can't expect to pay nothing and get everything. If you want a higher merc (or more AAs or more coins) you can subscribe to gold or buy an unlocker. There's nothing game breaking about that and it makes perfect sense.
#7 Mar 14 2012 at 11:30 AM Rating: Default
Saeel wrote:
Edit: at a glance of the newest F2P Q&A it seems Journeyman mercs might actually not be an unlockable purchase, but I would personally be surprised if this doesn't change once they realize what a moneymaker it could be.

Yeah:
Quote:
Q: What is the cost to unlock journeyman mercenaries and the subsequent awesome quest line in Seeds of Destruction to upgrade them J2-J5?

A: The only way to use Journeyman Mercenaries is to first become a Gold Member.


and please stop with the posts that think I'm asking for "everything"; I only am wanting one thing (something that pretty much everyone is going to be wanting once they come back and realize what they can't have)
#8 Mar 14 2012 at 3:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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For a returning player that already had a well developed character, I think there are some other more annoying limitations with FTP or Silver package than the Merc limitation. Though depending on ones playstyle, Journeyman Mercs or the lack of, could be a major issue when deciding if to return FTP/Silver or at all.

Some features may make the FTP/Silver characters a bit too inferior to get groups with the haves (lol). Such as the severe limitations on AAS,Premium items and RK2 spells. Especially if the returning character already had the RK2 spells etc before. Slot limitations cannot be upgraded from what I've read but I suspect that over time the scarce developers will add marketplace features to purchase re FTP or the Silver option. Inventory slots at 4 and 6 (no option to upgrade if FTP/Silver-yet) is also difficult for someone who remembers their character having 8 or 10 slots from before. Worse yet if they lose items when they log in with only 6 slots activated.

For a new EQ Player it wont matter much. So I hope some new blood comes in and sticks around...It's just that most new accounts the last 3-4 years are returning players so I expect dissapointment in its current state for some returnees.


Edited, Mar 15th 2012 7:43am by hexeez
#9 Mar 15 2012 at 12:27 AM Rating: Good
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Inida wrote:
Yeah:



Yeah, that was the exact thing I was referencing in my edit. But just like I was saying, almost no SoE decisions are concrete. A glance at the very recent history of decisions they've made after hearing out the playerbase backs that up.

Edited, Mar 15th 2012 1:28am by Saeel
#10 Mar 15 2012 at 4:25 AM Rating: Good
hexeez wrote:
For a new EQ Player it wont matter much. So I hope some new blood comes in and sticks around...It's just that most new accounts the last 3-4 years are returning players so I expect dissapointment in its current state for some returnees.



Well I expect complains that they can't have everything for free. But look at it this way. If not for the F2P conversion, they wouldn't have come back at all.
#11 Mar 15 2012 at 4:28 AM Rating: Excellent
Inida wrote:
and please stop with the posts that think I'm asking for "everything"; I only am wanting one thing (something that pretty much everyone is going to be wanting once they come back and realize what they can't have)


You're only asking for one thing, until you hit the coin cap, then you'll ask for that, or you hit the AA cap then you'll ask for that or until you decide you want a Dark Elf and then you ask for that.

It's very simple. Before, you didn't pay anything and you had no access. Now, you don't pay anything and you have some access. If you want more access, then subscribe.
#12 Mar 15 2012 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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N/T

Edited, Mar 16th 2012 9:51am by Cilrail
#13 Mar 15 2012 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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amastropolo wrote:
Inida wrote:
and please stop with the posts that think I'm asking for "everything"; I only am wanting one thing (something that pretty much everyone is going to be wanting once they come back and realize what they can't have)


You're only asking for one thing, until you hit the coin cap, then you'll ask for that, or you hit the AA cap then you'll ask for that or until you decide you want a Dark Elf and then you ask for that.

It's very simple. Before, you didn't pay anything and you had no access. Now, you don't pay anything and you have some access. If you want more access, then subscribe.


Thank you, was actually the point I was going to make next, in terms of inferiority, you'll have A merc, but because its not the best people won't group with you? Not true, I had a J1 merc for the longest time, and instead of using it, people would use their own (J2 or better..), so I would simply keep my suspended and others would use theirs (I'd in turn let them loot most of the stuff, seems only fair..).


But if everyone just demands one simple thing and everyone gets it, well, then what would be the difference between my Paid account and your Free account?

The reason for this, as many before me have said, was to give you access again (if limited) to the game, to see if you wanted to play, really get your lust for the game going again. I doubt Sony plans to use this as a permanent means of keeping players here, there would be Zero reason to keep you as a Free member, they don't get any money off of it. It'd no different than 3 people renting a house and a fourth staying there for free, but demanding internet access, rights to the food of the house, use of a bedroom, and access to whatever else they feel entitled to.

Feel free to not come back, because if this is such a HUGE thing, then obviously you don't want to play Everquest, you just want to complain.


Poseidon Out.




Edited, Mar 15th 2012 2:02pm by LuckyPoseidon
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#14 Mar 15 2012 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
I agree. There didn't even used to be mercs, you needed to group to fight or live on wits and knowing the toon. So not so surprising that they limit the access of the merc ranks to ftp. It seems only fair. I understand peoples frustrations at coming back and not getting what they used to have, but then you should've stayed or simply come back. I can't imagine leaving, I'm hooked. Sony/EQ get quite a bit of our entertainment budget. hee hee

With that said, I'm really hoping to see some old friends back, just to see how they've been.

#15 Mar 15 2012 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I get both side of the issue.

They want free players to want to have a reason to pay for some things, although it does suck to pay for mercs through buying the expansion, that they are making free minus the mercs....

I've been gone for a few years. I have popped in maybe 2 or 3 times for an hour when they offered a couple days free for old players, and from the people I talk to on my old server, unless you find a clique you will need mercs to pretty much do anything. EQ is somewhat of a single player game now and I think with the f2p it will become even more of one since people can make as many boxes as they want now. If your towing behind a bard and a toon for buffs or heals they don't have to be geared well.

Now after typing that out Ive changed my mind, I used to box back in the day and its not hard. They can keep their mercs, I can box better than their AI can play.
#16 Mar 15 2012 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
I dunno. There's always people lfg's around, especially in HoT, which is still ftp territory, if I understand correctly. I've met some pretty cool people accepting those requests. I've often had toons running up and simply asking if there was room in the group.

Boxing can be an art form in my eyes. I play a mage and chanty and while I use a tank and a healer merc for exping, between their two skill sets, they've gotten themselves out of quite a few scrapes when the mercs haven't been popped yet. I don't think of myself as boxing when I'm playing, they just simply complement each other. They exp, do quests, whatever. I am constantly looking to improve them both, either with gear or more aa's. They are both good toons in and of themselves.


#17REDACTED, Posted: Mar 15 2012 at 1:16 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It's not about everyone, it's not about everything, it's about journeyman mercenaries. Please don't project your personal problems into conversations that have nothing to do with them.
#18 Mar 15 2012 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It's not about everyone, it's not about everything, it's about journeyman mercenaries. Please don't project your personal problems into conversations that have nothing to do with them.

Like it or not, mercenaries are a staple of this game that are important to a large chunk of players' enjoyment. You know full-well the difference between journeyman and apprentice mercenaries.

About me personally? I've already purchased the expansion for journeyman mercenaries. I've already purchased the journeyman mercenary. Why should I arbitrarily be unable to use it, just because I now don't have to pay more money to access the game?

In regards to them "needing" to make a difference between gold and free players, they don't need to make the difference with mercenaries. I wouldn't even have a problem with them doing so, though, as long as you could pay to unlock(re-unlock in many people's case...) this one thing. But you can't. Also, don't fool yourself into thinking they even need a gold tier. Look at Nexon. All of their games are completely free to play, you don't even pay for expansions or anything. I can't speak for all of their games, but in the games I do play, the cash shops sell things that are very similar to what is being sold in the everquest marketplace. Guess what? Nexon is rolling in money.

My issue with the mercenary restriction is both an ethical (already paid for it in dollars and platinum) and a practical (keeps players playing, players playing = players paying) one.


Inida, don't play then, simple as that.

That wasn't a personal problem, that was an example, I live on my own.

Quote:
Also, don't fool yourself into thinking they even need a gold tier. Look at Nexon.


That's fine, I don't want to play Nexon, or any Nexon related games, I prefer Everquest, and if Sony's personal Business model is that there is a Gold Access (which costs money) and there is a Silver Access which has limited availability (but is free), then so be it, I personally like having full access to the game, if paying $13 a month if a huge thing to be able to enjoy a game for you, I recommend you keep playing Nexon, or try League of Legends or Diablo 2. But if you actually do miss this game and this staple (which you can get along as a soloing class just fine) then switch to Gold, you sound like a Big Boy/Girl and can probably do without the $13 a month.


I've grown up playing Everquest, I started since I was about 12 or so, I'm now 21. I don't roll in the cash, but I work 6 days a week, enough to be able to afford things I enjoy dearly. This game means a lot to me, and I've love to see revitalization, hell I'd love for the numbers to be up to what they were or what they are with WoW, but it won't happen, this was a chance to bring back old players who missed the game, revitalize their interest, but see how you act over something as simple as spent money on an old game? You don't even play the game anymore, so what was there to lose about not having your Mercenary available? The money is already gone, they didn't take it away from you forcefully, you aren't already playing the game, so what are you losing? You sound like you weren't interested in playing the game, so the money was already gone.


Now, I have to leave for work, I'd be more than happy to dispute your next response.

Poseidon Out

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#19 Mar 15 2012 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Inida wrote:
I've already purchased the expansion for journeyman mercenaries. I've already purchased the journeyman mercenary. Why should I arbitrarily be unable to use it, just because I now don't have to pay more money to access the game?




It's very simple. Before, if you didn't pay a subsription, you had no access to your journyman merc. Now, you can choose not to pay a subsription and you will still have access to a merc, just not the top of the line merc. . If you want access to a journeyman merc, then subscribe.
#20REDACTED, Posted: Mar 15 2012 at 3:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) let me make this easy
#21 Mar 15 2012 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
The issue is the model. Its the same issue EQ2 had.
Most F2P games have restrictions, however they offer the ability to BUY said items. EQ / EQ2 dont. You get nothing or you must subscribe.

The simply fix is to allow folks to PURCHASE what they want. IE if you want the updated mercs you pay $15 bucks and now you have access. If you want 1000 more AA's then pay $10 bucks or $15 or whatever.

Same for races / classes / etc.

The issue at least with EQ2 (and it may have changed) and I assume with EQ1 is that the developers are not interested in selling the service, they want subscriptions. So its not a true F2P model. Folks want to pay for what they want not be forced into a subscription. Give more options and EQ / EQ2 will do much better as a F2P model they are only hurting themselves.
#22 Mar 15 2012 at 4:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Inida wrote:
you can try to rework it all you want, but they sold mercenaries as part of a content bundle independent from subscriptions


Not true.

Because even if you bought Seeds of destruction and installed it on your computer you would not be able to access ANY of that content without the monthly subscription.

Before going F2P, content was solely and completely dependent on subscription.

Now you have some content independent of subscription.
#23 Mar 15 2012 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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what shag said!

before, no subscription = no merc. no matter what expansion you had paid for.
now, no subscription = yes merc! just a lower level one than what those who pay a subscription get


#24 Mar 15 2012 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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Shag nailed it, and that point is exactly what a developer made when they replied to the same complaints.
#25 Mar 15 2012 at 10:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Just wait a couple weeks and see what happens. When EQ2 changed to F2P the dev team reversed a number of policy decisions and most of those changes were favorable in respect to people who had previously subscribed.
#26 Mar 15 2012 at 11:13 PM Rating: Default
Saeel wrote:
Shag nailed it, and that point is exactly what a developer made when they replied to the same complaints.

Quote:
it really comes down to the fact that sony and (apparently) a lot of everquest players don't understand the free to play model, and why it's awesome for everyone involved when done correctly


I do expect them to change it. I'm only going to be the vocal minority for a few more hours.
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