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#1 Apr 16 2011 at 3:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was wobdering what AA's make a bow most effective. dmg, efficiency, accuracy, etc. I am planin to box a kiting class (i.e. Necromancer) I want to just put autofire on and let the necro aggro kite. thanx in advance.
#2 Apr 16 2011 at 10:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Since you're only asking about making a bow the most effective it can be I assume you have enough ammo or
a source of ammo on hand
(Tolan's Darkwood Bracer, etc)
Some basic Rangering includes getting the Endless Quiver AA at 59 so you don't have to worry about constantly
refilling your quiver (which having one is also basic Rangering, the better the quiver the faster the bow)
Even when using the Endless Quiver AA I believe that carrying a quiver (of any type) in your first inventory slot
will still give your bow haste. I still carry a Fleeting Quiver on my Ranger on Test.

The next thing I would invest my AA into, in this order is: accuracy, archery mastery (boosts damage) and get
the AA that boosts critical bow hits. Even a level 1 Ranger can bow crit, but of course you want it to land more
often.

The Trueshot Discipline is nice to have handy too. At higher levels there are AAs that enable a quicker refresh.
I'm not comphrensive in my answer, but its enough to get the ball rolling.
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#3 Apr 17 2011 at 6:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Following up Heavydrop's excellent post:

There was a time when you'd see rangers holding at 62 (63?), equipping a Planes of Power bow and going nuts with headshot in Temple of Droga on the weak goblins to rack up the AA. This level range was the peak of the bow power curve (though maybe they have revisited that in the past 3-4 xpacs) when combined with the AA available at that time and the arguably overpowered bows.

I've also seen level 70 rangers doing the same thing in Plane of Hate.

Both of these examples are prior to the AA xp change and defiant gear though. I've not seen much of the 70+ content in EQ and rarely see rangers at all the past few years.

-----

Play whatever you want, but with the current state of things a mage is rather hard to dispute. Even as the "afk" part of a duo-box kiter team you'd have the pet (not earth) doing dps constantly, the pet weapons for both pets and the big nukes to get you out of trouble (i.e. necro fd, pets are tanking, tab onto the mage and burn the mana pool).
#4 Apr 17 2011 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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I would find it rather hard to take aggro from a mage pet and a necro pet. So I figured I just out auto fire on and then run in circles with the necro doting.
#5 Apr 17 2011 at 10:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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newbie45 wrote:
I would find it rather hard to take aggro from a mage pet and a necro pet. So I figured I just out auto fire on and then run in circles with the necro doting.


I haven't played the mage to say. Watching others though, mage is clearly the dominant class in the solo-grouping game including boxers of all sorts.

Necro 1-70 certainly has no issues taking aggro from the pet 99% of the time (usually you just sit down). I don't think this changes 71-75, anyone that has played necro 76-90 and feels there is a change to aggro kiting mechanics could chime in perhaps (if it is actually different --i.e., the level X necro pet gets aggro even with taunt off and being held back till 3 dots are laid on or whatever).

I'd be curious if a "just bowing" ranger (i.e., not using abilities, spells, etc.) would even out dps any of the mage pets or beastlord pet for that matter. If you are tabbing over to use the abilities and spells it's definately a different conversation --but then other boxes would provide far more dps and/or arguably utility than a ranger to a necro.
#6 Apr 17 2011 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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You can /autofire with any class that has thrown items they can use, and until you get AAs, there won't be much difference in dps with that of a Ranger, as the chance of crits without AAs on the Rng will be fairly low and not add alot. Even with AAs, unless you have crappy melee ratio weapons, no AAs other than in bowing specifics, for the majority of levels, the Rng dps comes from melee. Bow dps, is generally just when using Trueshot disc along with bow AAs, and even then it's generally just similar to melee dps with discs.

Anyway, the point being, personally I wouldn't pick a Ranger for a kiting box. Mage is a much better pick, as they can summon item they can throw, turn pet taunt off, and set up a macro or two (one to assist the necro, send in pet, autofire and cast 1st nuke, and a second to cast the secondary nukes) and you won't be doing any more than a Ranger personally, but have at least 3x the dps, if not way more.

Turning pet taunt on and off is the main source for aggro on pets. The earth pets will root and get proximity root aggro, so is why it was not recommended for kiting. The air pet is a good all around melee pet with stuns, which can make them appear to get aggro, but not usually if taunt is off, especially for a necro with tons of aggro from snare, debuffs, and dots. As mentioned, sitting aggro is huge also.

Just my 2cp, and I love Rangers, just think it's a bad pick to combo with a necro for afk-ish kiting. Another thing to note, is afk-ing the Rng will lead to alot of missed dps, as range and view will make the target non-attackable by the Rng when kiting. It's very challenging to keep a mob in a tight circle that is always in the Ranger's view (i.e. no terrain deviations or objects).

Yther Ore.
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#7 Apr 17 2011 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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I already had the ranger so was trieing to avoid starting new with two characters. But, I may be getting a third account. So was considering 3 pet classes mag necro and beast three boxed perhaps
#8 Apr 19 2011 at 3:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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As a ranger you will cause double bow damage if you and your target are stationary. (Target can not be rooted for this.) With this you will start to get close to melee dps.
I had a lot of fun with my ranger killing ogres in Drunder, as they were in melee with me, their size meant I could still use my bow and headshot skill.
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#9 Apr 19 2011 at 2:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks Jonwin, I should have explained the kiting = constant moving and why the loss / equivalence in dps. Developers had said a long time ago they were going to fix (change) it so it would still work either on rooted or moving mobs or both (I can't remember and think they hadn't decided how they wanted to do it). If they ever get around to it, at least for moving mobs, it will make them a viable candidate for a kiting box. And as a Rng, I'd love it to work on rooted mobs.

Yther Ore.
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#10 Apr 20 2011 at 11:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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You being stationary has nothing to do with it. As long as the mob is standing still (ie at its spawn or being tanked) a ranger will get double damage from archery after level 50 (maybe 51).

I totally agree that a ranger is subpar dps as an afk box. Until levels 80+ melee will always outdps archery w/o trueshot (called shots and better ratio bows even it out some). Trueshot only lasts for 2 mins w/o aa's, and refreshes in 72 mins. So yeah... awesome archery dps for 2 mins every hour, lol.

One thing I would like to clarify somehow is when exactly rangers get archery crits, because I'm not sure about that. I can't remember if rangers have to buy the first level of combat fury (melee crit) first. What I do know is that my level 12 ranger on Vulak can't crit with archery yet, so they do not automatically get to crit archery from level 1. It would be interesting to know the answer to this for sure.

I tell ya, at low levels though rangers are really good as the lead kiter. You learn how to run backwards and strafe to keep the mob in view of your arrows, while you drop Flame Lick and Tangling weeds on it, along with another dot or 2. Up until levels 80+ I could keep kiting agro off everybody except a necro (they HAVE to tone it down a tad if they are not the kiter).
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#11 Apr 20 2011 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
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I have been bow kiting in the Roost at 63 and has been really slow process. But great AA xp
#12 Apr 20 2011 at 3:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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newbie45 wrote:
I have been bow kiting in the Roost at 63 and has been really slow process. But great AA xp


Fun is where you find it. "really slow" combined with "great" seems... odd?




If you have a low aa count... lightblues in hotzones are really efficient AAxp, probably the most efficient by far barring the odd exception (i.e., murkgliders in Noble's Causeway are good for heavy dotter-kiters...).

Roost is good xp in general, but only if the kills are efficient (It's a great necro kiting zone for example).
#13 Apr 20 2011 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=64389 says 12 for all crit capable toons (i.e. War melee at 12, Rng bow at 12, Wiz nuke at 12, etc.)

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/classes.html?class=2&mid=108255283169864&page=1 Nice history on crits in game.

Since crits weren't initial with the game, the TLP servers may have not yet introduced them.

Yther Ore.
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#14 Apr 21 2011 at 11:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Crits are in on the TLP servers
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#15 Apr 22 2011 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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i meant slow kills but great xp per kill
#16 Apr 22 2011 at 10:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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newbie45 wrote:
i meant slow kills but great xp per kill


That's what I got out of it.

Keep in mind fast kills and okay xp will often beat slow kills, especially for AA --especially if your AA count is low.

At level 55, without hp buffs, my old beastlord can tank (rather than letting pet tank) and kill lightblue mobs in a hotzone for 12ish % per kill. Thanks to low AA count and defiant gear of course.

That's steady killing 8ish mobs without needing to med/heal/re-selfbuff. Use pots (Damage shield and haste) only improves that... and/or getting temperance or better. Bow kiting... I'd be surprised if 3 died in the same time span (unless you've got the bow AA that make farming lower mobs gravy such as headshot).

VS. killing in roost, the current hotzone that is easily compared would be Nadox. The trolls at the torg mines zone in are super easy to single pull and don't run away. Until most of Nadox goes green /con to a character I doubt overall xp rate can be beaten vs. roost for a non dot-kiter (even if) without significant AAs already.
#17 Sep 30 2011 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Hy!! I 4 boxed some years ago before Mercs came in. My ranger was 62 approx 120 AA. We rangers get double bow dmg a 55.
Endless Quiever is a MUST I got lucky someone selling an arrow in bazaar for 120PP .It had Max. self dmg. of 21 versus 6 coming
from summoning. Dext from defiant and buff should get you close to max. for crits and accuacy. I had good gear all stats maxed.
(Countless hours farming for aa in Old Sebilis ) I made an error putting AA into self regen and melle crit and dodge. Now they say
AA progress ain't locked any longer. But i would still Recommend maxing track at 55 . It was somewhat fun to be able to instant invis at 59. But also a waste. at 55 using bow I started taking agro of my SK who could keep agro on 2 mob even for a Cheal from cleric.
At 59 with endl. only; I had to holler back 3 times. Necro Ranger would make execellent Dualbox for single pulls Necro has low agro to
start with sends in pet ;Waits snare turns pet taunt on. And you start firing Arrows. Even if you get agro.Necro snare is the best one.
And with pet on as well you just have to holler back once.. So AA is [track at 55] [EQ at 59 ;Double dmg Trickshot (if guilded against
topencounter. You guild might want you to max. Flame or Frost aroow for a quick Burn kill. ) If you plan to stay at lev 63 then just
divide aa between them. If you solo. you may be forced to have regen 3 run 3 as well. ]
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
#18 Oct 05 2011 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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MageBlaster wrote:
We rangers get double bow dmg a 55.


I believe that's just on non-moving and non-rooted mobs only.

The AAs you want at the very least, are Endless Quiver, so you never run out of arrows and Archery Mastery to improve your damage.

Edited, Oct 5th 2011 11:29am by amastropolo
#19 Oct 05 2011 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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MageBlaster wrote:
Flame or Frost aroow for a quick Burn kill.


Flame and Frost arrows AA's are greatly underpowered.

Poison arrows is the way to go to add dps for a burn. You combo that up with Scout's Mastery of Fire (or Ice), First Spire, Guardian of the Forest, and Outrider's Accuracy for some nice front end dps (bullseye disc instead of OAccuracy if up... and don't forget to use epic click and auspice).
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#20 Nov 06 2012 at 9:54 PM Rating: Good
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This thread was crazy helpful when getting back into my ranger after years of being away. Searched through google for a while and this was by far the most helpful and up to date even though its from late 2011 hehe.

I was wondering, when looking at AA's and effects in general to bow attacks count as 'melee' or are they their own category? For example for something to effect bows the description will need to specifically say bow attacks. obviously I don't expect things that say primary, off-hand, two handed weapon etc to effect bows.

EDIT: sorry if this is a necropost. I figure since it was 'ranked' so high via google it would be a good thread to keep going even if it was older /shrug

Edited, Nov 6th 2012 10:58pm by Scardonicus
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
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