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Recent Account Bannes for HackingFollow

#1 Apr 09 2008 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good
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Recently Sony has been sweeping its system to find and pinpoint accounts that are using third party programs to exploit the game. There is some new Bot that they are having trouble Pin pointing that may or may not be related to the Plat spammers and power levelers that have made a huge surge in game. Beleive me when i say that I applaud their efforts.

However, yy account has banned twice in the last two weeks for "Ghost Killing" the first time they apologized and said that it was a "Typographical error" Assuming the same mistake was made I submitted a petition. This is the dialog which ensued

been edited to be on ascending chronological order and player and owner names have been removed.

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Customer (Polley) 04/09/2008 11:09 AM

Well two weeks ago 3/23 my account was banned for "Ghost Killing and hiding within the geometry of the game". After talking to Phone support and submitting a petition, GM Khaoimhe replied to me (reference number 080321-000908) and told me that "In a recent disciplinary action on another account, it appears as though a typographical error was made which happened to correspond to your account information. As a result, the account was set to deny access to the EverQuest server.", and added "I do apologize for this. I have lifted the ban from the account and granted seven days of play time"

Well this morning 4/9 I attempted to log in and found that the account was banned again. After speaking with Phone support they informed me that it was banned for "ghost killing and hiding within the geometry of the game" yet again.

Please believe me when I tell you that as players and consumers of this product, that we do very much appreciate the efforts being made to stop cheating and hacking, its hard enough advancing through the game even without having to deal with cheaters and hackers. That having been said, there are many players like myself who don't have a lot of time to play the game so when we do have time to play, you can imagine that we want to get in, get to work, and have some fun. As a result of both of these account suspensions I have missed opportunities in the form of raids and quests that I do with other people who play in my time zone and as a result of that I am farther behind in flags and loot.

Again we really do appreciate the efforts being made on your behalf...but I hope you can understand my frustration with the matter, it’s hard to believe that the same "typographical error" could happen twice in only two weeks.

I hope we can get the issue resolved for good

Mahalo

Polley

Response (GM Aahir) 04/09/2008 11:31 AM Greetings Polley,

Thank you for contacting us. Game Master Aahir at your service. I understand your concern regarding your banned account. In order to serve you better I am escalating this ticket to a Senior GM for further review. Your patience and cooperation is greatly appreciated.

Should there be anything else that you require assistance with, feel free to contact us. We look forward to provide you the best assistance possible.

Safe Travels

Regards
GM Aahir, EverQuest
Sony Online Entertainment

Response (CSR Robert R.) 04/09/2008 12:17 PM Greetings,

This is Senior GM Zekil following up on your issue.

I am sorry that your account was wasned in error previously, however this time there is evidence that your account was using a third party program to cheat and exploit the game. On 04-04-2008 there is evidence that shows you exploiting in the Dreadlands, Bastion of Thunder, Muramite Proving Grounds and Crushbone. Your account has been banned due to these exploits. It is unfortunate that we have to take these type of actions, but we need to rid Norrath of the cheaters and exploiters.

Sincerely,

Senior GM Zekil
In-Game CSR-Everquest
Sony Online Entertainment


Sony Online Entertainment Customer (Polley 04/09/2008 01:21 PM

Thank you very much for the quick response to my petiton (080409-001420).

I have to admit that what you say comes as a tremendous surprise to me. All of the zones that you mentioned are zones that I have been in in the last few weeks. I was in dreadlands for the anniversary scavenger hunt, Crushbone while dueling a guild mate, and the rest of the other zones for XP. I am interested to know what sort of evidence was found on the fourth, linking me to any sort of exploit. In fact in all of the zones minus Dreadlands, I was with other people who, I'm sure, can a tell you that I was not using ANY sort of exploit. I have never cheated in this game, nor do I even know where to begin if I were to try.

Please, contact me again so that we can explore what is making me look like I'm using some sort of exploit!! I notice that you mentioned a 3rd party program being used to exploit the game, is there a possibility that something is running on my computer that I'm unaware of? Like some sort of spyware or a Trojan? Otherwise I can't think of anything else that would look like third party software.

I use a public Wi-Fi connection to play Everquest. When my account was banned for ghost killing the first time I read up on what that was. The best answer I got was that it involved a monk and somehow making the character appear to be disconnected or lagging. My connection always seems stable, and is pretty fast, is it possible that lag spikes can create the same type of scenario and its being misread as ghost killing?

Im really in the dark as to what’s causing the problem on my computer. I really would appreciate any help you can give me.

Thank you,

Polley
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Sony Online Entertainment LLC. Response (GM Salvandor) 04/09/2008 01:27 PM

Greetings Polley!

This is GM Salvandor. I understand that you want to inform that you never used third party software in the game to enhance your character's game play. I am escalating your issue to our Supervisor for further investigations and assistance. Someone will get in touch with you as soon as possible. If you have any comments regarding this or want to provide some more information then please add a comment to this ticket.

Good luck and safe travels in the world of Norrath.

Regards,
Game Master Salvandor
In-Game CSR – EverQuest
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Response (Lead GM Encegawi) 04/09/2008 01:39 PM Greetings,

This is Lead GM Encegawi writing regarding the status of your EverQuest account. During the course of our investigation into hackers and cheaters within the game, your account was identified as being involved in these actions. This can mean one of two things:

1) Active hacking - Server logs and/or visual GM confirmation showed the character using third party programs to hack the game.
2) Group participation - You were part of a group that had one or more members actively hacking. Your character gained experience, items and/or flags for being part of the group.

Either one of these is against the user agreement, and can result in an account ban. Depending on the severity of the actions taken, the account can be banned even if this was your first offence. I'm very sorry, but once the account is banned for this it is the final decision of management and cannot be overturned. If you had any other questions or concerns, please let me know.

Regards,

Lead GM Encegawi
Customer Service Supervisor
Customer (Polley) 04/09/2008 01:51 PM I completely understand what you are saying. I want to make it very clear that I do not have ANY software on my computer that even relates to Everquest. So I am very curious to see exactly what the server logs said. I can guarantee you that I do not use exploits, nor have I ever, and I never will!

IF I was in a group where I gained experience because somebody else was hacking, I definitely do not think that I should be held responsible. There was absolutely no way that I could have known that!

At this point Sony is telling me, "we caught you doing this and we have evidence". How do I prove that I have never done these things?!

Regards, Polley
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Response (Lead GM Encegawi) 04/09/2008 02:01 PM

I'm very sorry but I cannot release details as to what the logs showed as it may compromise our methods of detecting hackers. Please understand that we do not ban arbitrarily, and take a great deal of time and care in making sure we are not making any mistakes. Depending on the severity of how much you were involved in cheating, an account can be outright banned even if they were in a group and not actively hacking.

~ Lead GM Encegawi
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Customer (Polley) 04/09/2008 01:51 PM

Ok...I understand this. And I understand that you do not arbitrarily ban accounts. I'm trying my best to not point fingers but the fact is that you are wrong! I have never cheated.

I'm beginning to think that whatever I say, the only response I will get is that I'm banned, period.

You tell me that "Depending on the severity of how much you were involved in cheating, an account can be outright banned even if they were in a group and not actively hacking.". First of all you say actively hacking like I wasn't hacking at the time. Which i wasn't, because I never have! The only people that I have grouped with In this time frame were XXXXX, whom I have grouped with many times, a ranger who we picked up in BoT, and a cleric from my guild who I had never grouped with before. If ANY of these people were hacking there is NO way that I would know that.

Either way the XP gained was under 5%! The only two rare drops were things I didn't need, nor were they valuable or difficult to attain. I’m sure your records will show that my XP gain is slow at best and my gear is mostly cultural crafted and bazaar gear. If i was hacking, don't you think Id be a little better off?!

At this point its like going to jail for a crime that you didn't commit, but the police officer is saying I did. If I was in a group or people with somebody who did commit a crime, and I was unaware of it, I wouldn’t be getting in trouble because I was oblivious to the crime. Last time I checked "guilty by association" was not in the Sony user agreement.

I'm being accused, and I'm saying that I'm innocent. Where does it go from here? How do we find the correct answer?

Regards, Polley

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Response (Lead GM Encegawi) 04/09/2008 02:21 PM

It was much more than 5% XP and a couple of loot drops. I'll send it over to be investigated again, but I'm very certain the same conclusion will be reached.

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Customer (Polley) 04/09/2008 02:37 PM

Thank you for sending it in to be looked at again.

As far as it being "Much more that 5% xp and a couple of loot drops" In the time frame that we are talking about, I grouped in BoT with XXXXX and a Ranger who's name i don't remember. Since i was working regular XP at the time with AA's turned off the xp bar wasn't moving much at all. We killed 1 rare there which dropped an Ornate Leather pattern, I don't recall which one, legs or arms as I recall. The only other rare killed was in Taskfiend Caikip in Muramite proving grounds, he dropped a Veinteppers stone which the cleric in the group got. Besides that I really can’t think of what could make it seem as if there were "much more than 5% xp and a couple of drops"

We are talking about Polley on the XXXXXX server right?

Thanks again for the help...I hope we can solve this

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Response (Lead GM Encegawi) 04/09/2008 02:47 PM

I've decided to let your account back into the game, but the character was rolled back to counter the items gained. This is the absolute limit of what I can do, so any other items that may be missing from your character will not be returned. As long as we do not discover any further involvement in cheating, we will never again meet under these circumstances.

~ Lead GM Encegawi
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Customer (Polley) 04/09/2008 03:21 PM
Well Lead GM Encegawi, that is quite the good faith gesture. And it IS appreciated. I have logged in and checked my inventory. Although Im happy you lifted the ban and rolled the character back there now another major issue.

On March 25th, as I'm sure your records will confirm. I purchased 1 Legends of Norrath: Oathbound booster box ($99.99), and 31 Event passes (31.00). I no longer have ANY of these items, including the loot cards. If you would like to refund the $130.99 I will be happy to call matter closed.

I understand that "This is the absolute limit of what I can do, so any other items that may be missing from your character will not be returned" However refusal to refund these items without concrete proof of my alleged misconduct, is against the law in the United States.

I await your decision.

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Customer (Polley 04/09/2008 04:39 PM Ok,
I have talked with a friend of mine over the phone, he is a GM on another server. I understand that there is a huge issue with this new Bot program which may or may not be related to these plat spammers, and I understand that this is threatening EQ unlike anything before. My friend, well call him Clarence, has also assured me that if the GM's were positive that I had done something wrong that the ban never would have been lifted from the account.

So there is no need to flex our muscles at each other and try to play hardball. If there is any information that I can give that will help to pinpoint the bot problem please don't hesitate to ask. I know that the ways of detecting these bots are still being fine tuned, and that there have been thousands of banned accounts as of late. I appreciate the efforts to lift the ban and rollback the character, but the fact still stands that I have done nothing wrong and hence should not be punished for anything.

Clarence suggested that perhaps someone who was botting had mentioned my name for some reason after he was banned, whether it was some sort of plea bargain we don't know. If this is the case I can narrow that down to 3 people, two who's names I don't recall but I'm sure I could dig them up on EQplayers. Those are the only people I have associated with in the past week.

He also expressed interest, as did I, as to what items your records show me as gaining in this ordeal, since i was "rolled back to counter the items gained" I'm rolled back and the only things I'm missing are loot cards from LoN. Were both interested to know what these items were if you would be willing to tell me.

Bottom like is that I want these botters and exploiters gone just as much as you do. What can we do to help each other? How can I help to resolve these issues, if i can at all?

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Response (Lead GM Encegawi) 04/09/2008 06:28 PM

Rolling the character back does not affect purchases made through LoN. None of the items mentioned even show up within EverQuest. They are all accessed through the LoN client only. Boosters that are looted from within the game can be removed from a rollback, but you did not indicate any of these were in-game boosters. If this is the case please let me know and I will search the logs for evidence of you obtaining these items. In regards to the event passes, I see you traded all of those on the 25th for two Familiar of Phara Dar in two separate posted trades. The booster box adds the booster packs to your claimable window, where you can trade them or open them as you wish. If there were any items claimed those would be lost with the rollback. Those cannot be restored since I told you anything lost with the rollback would be gone. There can also be no refund for the purchased boosters and event passes since they were used within LoN.

~ Lead GM Encegawi

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As a result of the rollback i lost 1 Visage of the Ice Golem, 1 Familiar of Phara Dar, and stack of 10 Legenday potions of the adventerer (xp potions). All these items were claimed in game and thus *ARE* a part of the the everquest client. These are the only items missing from the character. ALL of which I paid for and obtained through booster backs or trades for items and event passes. You are correct that the rest of the cards and unclaimed items are still there since they are not part of the everquest client that was my mistake.

Please check your records, I’m sure you will find that the items I am missing ARE legitimate items, and were there before the time period in which you are accusing my of cheating.

It seems like nobody is comprehending the fact that *I* did NOTHING wrong, and I can say in 100% confidence and truth that Sony Online Entertainment has made a mistake. There is nothing being done about this, I am getting the run around and quite frankly it's a big let down from Sony, in the past I have never had a problem with their business practices.

Imagine if you will that your Cell phone company sent you a bill saying that you were 1000 minutes over your limit, and you were going to have to pay $500, their records show that you are over your minutes but you phone shows that you haven't exceeded your limit. I'm sure you would investigate the matter. Now imagine how you would feel if your cell phone company never gave you an answer as to why this happened, and all they did was reduce the bill down a little bit. That is exactly what is happening here. Your saying i cheated, I'm telling you that nowhere on my computer is there software that does that! Send someone over, id be happy to let them look!!

All I want are my Familiar of Phara Dar, my Visage of the Ice Golem, and my experience potions back. After that I'll be extremely happy if you never hear from me again!

I DON'T want another excuse about how "This is the absolute limit of what I can do". That cop out excuse is not acceptable. If thats all you can tell me then don't waste my time. Send it to a superior that CAN make it happen. And while your at it, see if they can't give me a REAL answer about why this whole mess is happening.

And next time this happens to someone instead of telling them "As long as we do not discover any further involvement in cheating, we will never again meet under these circumstances." Why don't you try apologizing to them for royally messing up!"

I STILL would like a list of the Items you are alleging that my character obtained. Because at this point I'm not sure I believe you.

Once again I express that I have done absolutely nothing against the Sony User Agreement and yet I am being punished because your system can't pinpoint the problem. When I ask several questions I expect answers to all of them, not just 1. Please find the answers and get back to me.


*END*

I am awaiting a reply

At this point it is less about the items and the game, and more about bad business practices.

Has anyone else had this same problem?! It’s ridiculous! Am I blowing this out of proportion? I’d appreciate any feedback, because what’s happening is just wrong! And I’m sure I’m not the only one experiencing it.

Thanks folks!

Polley Pauhana


#2 Apr 09 2008 at 10:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I understand the new issues they are having with hackers and whatnot. But this has me curious. There was something said about ghosting and having something to do with disconnecting or lagging?

Well this scares me some. I play on a wireless network and if there is too many computers on it at once, I loose connection and have to reset the router. Most times I can ge back in before I go ld, sometimes not.

Does this mean they will be hunting me down?

Btw, how is it fair they can ban you..if someone in group is hacking? How are you suppoesed to kknow that?
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#3 Apr 09 2008 at 11:35 PM Rating: Decent
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You aren't gonna get tagged for ghosting just for being on a laggy wireless network. Ghosting produces a result in logs that absolutely nothing else can or will.

It's possible for people to get accidentally tagged certainly, as a result of a typoed account name etc and other silly 'typographical errors,' but you won't accidentally actually get tagged as a ghoster.
#4 Apr 10 2008 at 5:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
2) Group participation - You were part of a group that had one or more members actively hacking. Your character gained experience, items and/or flags for being part of the group.


I recall having grouped with a mage back when GE was a hotzone, whom I do believe was hacking. I was in the group for maybe 5 or 10 minutes before he showed any signs, at which point I left. Granted this is a long while past, but this is a bannable offence?
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#5 Apr 10 2008 at 5:52 AM Rating: Decent
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I really hate and am appauled that you are going through this. I'm going to believe you 100% when you say that you are not a hacker. I think that if you were a hacker you wouldn't have brought this issue to an alla forum and would not be continuing to but heads with SOE over it. Usually hackers say fook SOE, buy another account and start again and they complain on their hack website.

We've all complained, petitioned and demanded SOE remove the hackers and plat farmers from EQ. They are now doing as we wish. However, I'm beginning to see a scarey trend with SOE now. You are not the first innocent person to experiance this. It seems that it's now becoming a witch hunt with SOE. They are insta banning anyone who even looks like they are doing anything illegal. SOME people are getting harrased for being logged in for long times, plvling alts, making too much money from trade skill items, 6 boxing and the list goes on. And, a few people have been banned for picking up loot rotting that was called out in /ooc. (SOE said the loot was hacked) Or banned for being in a pick up group where one person has/had hacked.

Now all that just scares the heck out of me. I 2 box, my husband 4 boxes. Are we going to be accused of plat farming now? I mean, I do sell the heck out of pelts, silks, fluids, gems and the such. My husband and I can play for long periods of time. On the weekends it's not uncommon for us to have 12 to 15 hour long sessions. EQ is our bonding time. We also have access to a druid and can get an alt from lvl 1 to lvl 60 in about 30 hours. Are we going to get accused of hacking next because an alt got lvls too fast therefore we must be hackers?

People calling out root loot in /ooc is a wonderful thing. I've done it before and I've taken advantage of some /ooc calls. It's a beautiful way to share with others and help. But now I'm going to be scared to go pick up an upgrade and others will think twice before taking that aug that's rotting. And now I'm going to be scared about pick up groups. Why should I go looking for group if there's a chance I'm going to be banned cause I don't know what the other people are doing or have done. (now don't get me wrong, if I see someone warp or other stuff I would disban from the group.) This is basiclly going to lead to paranoia, distrust and anti social behavior in the EQ community.
#6 Apr 10 2008 at 6:45 AM Rating: Excellent
Wow. Sorry you are going/have gone through this. I am having the same problem with WoW. I keep getting these very nasty emails from World of Warcraft telling me that my account will be banned if I dont stop using third party programs. The first few I simply deleted. The last one I replied to telling them "I dont play WoW, ban away, and quit emailing me." They responded with a terse letter saying their investigation has shown that I am plainly using third party programs to bypass certain functions of the game or something like that. I dont play WoW, and have never even installed it on my computer intending to play. Wierd.
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#7 Apr 10 2008 at 6:47 AM Rating: Decent
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I find it interesting they have you hacking in 4 different zones.Unless you were in the 4 zones with the same person who was hacking why would this be?

It's hard to comment as I dont know you or what Sony is up to reguarding hacking.

I play alot of mmo's and hacking is rampant.There are hackers and the rest of us,may our paths never cross.I never really cared.Now that hacks are big business it seems half the people hack just to keep up with eveyone else that hacks.Its snowballing!

They dont seem to have a clue how to stop this.I play Counter Strike,a first person shooter,once in a while.I would love to play it more but that game is filled with hackers and it gets frustrating getting killed all the time because someone can see thru the walls and knows where you are.It says when you log onto a server its VAC secured.Meaning your not suposed to be able to run hacks on that server.Yet half the people are still hacking.So if you want to play and be good at the game you NEED hacks.So goes the theory anyways.

EQ may be getting their first real taste of this.As more and more people run their own little bot armies,why not hack.Its not like you have anyone else in group thats going to notice.Atleast thats what I think the logic is.

Over the years I dont think these people who run these MMO's have really been serious about defeating hacks and just considered it a minor nuisance.All the while the hackers have been learning from trial and error,and each other,how to develope this into a cottage industry.

Maybe these companys should hire the developers of these hacks,pay them a huge salery,like the old days of the internet when you didnt know what the hell you were doing reguarding security.

Sorry this ran so long.Guess I had more to say than when I started.LOL.

Edited, Apr 10th 2008 10:48am by Boomsticker
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#8 Apr 10 2008 at 8:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Harrington wrote:
I dont play WoW, and have never even installed it on my computer intending to play. Wierd.
That is strange. Someone using your email address for their WoW account?

I don't know what to say to the OP. When you're dealing with a massive amount of people and trying to weed out the crooks, some non-crooks will get caught in the net.

It seems SoE did re-activate your account, so at least you can play. How or why you would be missing LoN stuff may indeed not be the doing of the EQ devs...who knows?? There have been lots of account hacks lately.

I too don't hold a lot of sympathy for someone who comes to this forum for the express purpose (post count = 1) of smearing the game and company that we pay to play.

I guess my advice would be to perhaps be a bit more discerning in who you play with in the future.
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#9 Apr 10 2008 at 8:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Haha Now that I think back, I was on my cleric and was grouped with a bard in Nobles Causeway when it was a HZ. I was with an aquantance of mine and a couple others. She had a friend of hers with us.

She was tracking stuff and could tell us exactly where they were, when they would pop and what exactly they had on them each time they popped, before we killed them. The nameds, I mean.

Her friend was a BST or shaman, I forget and he seemed pretty solid as a tank. He had gear on I dont ever recall of hearing of ( not necessarily meaning a hacker, but I like to think I am familiar with alot gear, especially for those classes that I play normally).

Fortunately I wasnt in group very long. I died, rezzed myself and camped. There was a patch in 30 mins, so I figured it wouldnt be worth my time running there again.

Next night my account wouldnt turn on. LOL thought I was banned, turned out my account had closed..(someone forgot to pay the cc bill, lol) and it just happened to be renewal day.
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Proud Officer and Guru of < Circle of Prophets >
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He who lives by the sword, shall die by the sword; bringing oceans of tears in laughter.

#10 Apr 10 2008 at 8:29 AM Rating: Default
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In response to Boomsticker

"I find it interesting they have you hacking in 4 different zones.Unless you were in the 4 zones with the same person who was hacking why would this b"

I too found it Interesting that they had me hacking in 4 different zones, as the Dreadlands was a zone that I was in alone. I was doing the Anniversary Scavenger Hunt.

So Im really unsure as to what exactly they are seeing. The other three zones were I was with two to three other people, but one Beastlord was with me in all the groups after DL.

You are very right when you say talk about counter strike and how "EQ may be getting their first real taste of this" meaning hacking. This isn't the first time Sony has had to deal with hacking, however this IS the largest epidemic that they have encountered and quite frankly its scaring the heck out of them, as I'm sure it is all of us as well.

In regards to other posts, yes it is a little scary that we can now be banned for getting lvls quick, or making what Sony considers too much Platinum. Or from looting /ooc'd items in a zone, this really can lead to lead to "paranoia, distrust and anti social behavior in the EQ community" I just hope Sony sees this and is willing to work with us to fine tune their detection system.

Thanks for the feedback!

Polley Pauhana
#11 Apr 10 2008 at 9:04 AM Rating: Decent
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PolleyPauhana wrote:
You are very right when you say talk about counter strike and how "EQ may be getting their first real taste of this" meaning hacking. This isn't the first time Sony has had to deal with hacking, however this IS the largest epidemic that they have encountered and quite frankly its scaring the heck out of them, as I'm sure it is all of us as well.

In regards to other posts, yes it is a little scary that we can now be banned for getting lvls quick, or making what Sony considers too much Platinum. Or from looting /ooc'd items in a zone, this really can lead to lead to "paranoia, distrust and anti social behavior in the EQ community" I just hope Sony sees this and is willing to work with us to fine tune their detection system.
hackers and cheats have been around longer than computer games and EQ has been around longer than most MMO's. I can give personal accounts of others banned, perhaps unfairly, when SoE made sweeping bans due to the latest and greatest in exploits and hacks. Ghosting has been around awhile.

It's unfortunate to you, the individual, that gets caught in the cross-fire perhaps, but from a communtity stand point, I'd say 'better safe than sorry'. An MMO community is owned by the game, they can make whatever decisions they want...they don't have to follow a bill-of-rights, or a constitution. They may decide that if a few innocents get banned it's still worth it if they can root out the problem.

Seems that SOE did look at your case individually and make adjustments based on your claims.

I'm not sure what kind of a solution you're looking for. I could just as easily applaud SoE for taking action against cheaters as I could bash them because, in the process, they caused one individual, that may or may not be guilt-free, some problems.

I'm truly curious what your goal was for making the original post as you've never posted on this forum before??

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#12 Apr 10 2008 at 9:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Response (Lead GM Encegawi) 04/09/2008 02:01 PM

I'm very sorry but I cannot release details as to what the logs showed as it may compromise our methods of detecting hackers. Please understand that we do not ban arbitrarily, and take a great deal of time and care in making sure we are not making any mistakes. Depending on the severity of how much you were involved in cheating, an account can be outright banned even if they were in a group and not actively hacking.

~ Lead GM Encegawi


I like the way he says "and take a great deal of time and care in making sure we are not making any mistakes" yet you were banned due to a typo. that does not sound like a great deal of time to make no mistakes.
#13 Apr 10 2008 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda,

My intentions for posting this here was to find out if anyone else was going through this. Quite frankly even friends of mine who are GM's are a little curious as to what exactly they arr finding that I did. Ive had this account since 2001 and have never had any disciplinary or banning issues up until these last two weeks. My friends know that I don't cheat, not would I even know how to.

The solution that I am looking for from Sony is acknowledgment that they made a mistake. At this point its less about the game, as I don't play nearly as often as most, and more with what I consider the bad handling of a Business issue. We are all consumers of the Everquest product. And I'm being penalized monetarily for something that is an Internal mistake. I am not mad at Sony, I'm sure they are having a difficult time pinpointing the problem.

I have never posted on this forum before, i use Allah's almost everyday. I just thought that as part of this Everquest community that other's would like to know what was happening, as I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I don't think that I am "smearing" Sony at all. I simply showed the logs of what has happened so far, because I am frustrated.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of that is yours, than Thank you for it, I will keep it in mind!


Polley
#14 Apr 10 2008 at 10:38 AM Rating: Excellent
I turned myself in for exploiting once. funny but its true.

I was using a very old slow computer at the time and sold an axe in the ecom tunnel to somebody soon after kunark came out. My computer was so slow at zoneing and the zone so crowded, when I tried to zone I got warped back to the safe spot in Ecom and had the axe still but not the plat he gave me. I sent a tell to the dude who I sold the axe to and told him what happened. He said he still had the axe I sold him, and of course he didnt have the money he gave me.

So now we each had an axe and the item was effectively duped. I got scared and petitioned myself and told the GM what happened. The only response was they would look into it. Nothing happened to me or my account and I ended up upgrading my computer in the next couple weeks to fix my slow zoning problem. It used to take me like 2 minutes to zone.

This situation sounds weird. Why would they claim someone was ghost killing in crushbone? This should be a flag to them. Ppl would be hacking in a higher lvl zone or with higher lvl monsters I think.

Hiding in the geometry? This isnt hacking. This is a terrain pathing bug and yes using it could be exploiting but still. Wouldnt the logs show a problem if that were the case? PLUS what uber mobs do high lvl chars hunt in BOT or Dreadlands? How can a trashy ornate pattern be considerd 'ghost killer loot'?

The rollback was stupid. I have no idea why they would do that and not say what loot you earned by ghost killing.

My thinking is that your account and password were comprimised and someone who knows how to cover half of their tracks used your account to do the dirty work and then kept the loot. If they are able to mask what zone they are in and the times played, the only ones showing on the log would be your normal play. They could conceivably use your account forge the log on the zone, collect the loot, and then be gone. This way their own account doesnt get banned because they never did the ghost killing and were never grouped with you. They just 'happened' to be there to loot a mob corpse that was lying on the ground.

If you log in and see more exp than you had the day before. I would say that its a sign that someone playing with your flute without your permission! (bard speak hehe)
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#15 Apr 10 2008 at 10:46 AM Rating: Decent
16 posts
Quote:
[]don't think that I am "smearing" Sony at all. I simply showed the logs of what has happened so far, because I am frustrated. [/]



Smear away Polley!!! I know I do when given the chance. I'm glad you posted this, this situation needs to be brought to the EQ publics attention in the safe environment of alla. This post on Eqplayers wouldn't last a day without being edited or locked.
#16 Apr 10 2008 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
*
125 posts
Elinda wrote:


It's unfortunate to you, the individual, that gets caught in the cross-fire perhaps, but from a communtity stand point, I'd say 'better safe than sorry'.



More than unfortunate. It's easy to take this line when it's someone else getting banned for no good reason. Would you say the same thing if you were in Polley's position? "Oh well, I did nothing wrong and they banned me. Tough luck, but better safe than sorry."

If Polley is being honest here (and I have no idea about that, Polley seems honest but who really knows?) then this is not at all good from a community standpoint. This is the type of action that will drive honest players away from the game. Getting rid of hackers is great, I'm all for it, but it has to be surefire and not miss, hitting innocent players in the crossfire. Erroneously banning someone because of a typo? Give me a break, hire a proofreader.

I've never hacked or cheated in any way. If I got the email that Polley got and my account got banned, I'd probably be too pissed to even fight it. I'd just send them one dirty email and cancel my accounts for good. I'd rather take up stamp collecting as a hobby than waste hours of my time creating a character that could be stripped from me for no good reason at all.

P.S. I'm not flaming here; no offense intended towards Elinda, Polley, or stamp collectors.
#17 Apr 10 2008 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
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PolleyPauhana wrote:
Elinda,

My intentions for posting this here was to find out if anyone else was going through this. Quite frankly even friends of mine who are GM's are a little curious as to what exactly they arr finding that I did. Ive had this account since 2001 and have never had any disciplinary or banning issues up until these last two weeks. My friends know that I don't cheat, not would I even know how to.

The solution that I am looking for from Sony is acknowledgment that they made a mistake. At this point its less about the game, as I don't play nearly as often as most, and more with what I consider the bad handling of a Business issue. We are all consumers of the Everquest product. And I'm being penalized monetarily for something that is an Internal mistake. I am not mad at Sony, I'm sure they are having a difficult time pinpointing the problem.

I have never posted on this forum before, i use Allah's almost everyday. I just thought that as part of this Everquest community that other's would like to know what was happening, as I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I don't think that I am "smearing" Sony at all. I simply showed the logs of what has happened so far, because I am frustrated.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of that is yours, than Thank you for it, I will keep it in mind!


Polley
From your story SoE already admitted to likely making an error and reinstated your account. They spent a good deal of time addressing your claims. In the end you lose some in-game stuff.

I'm sorry your frustrated, but do you really want SOE to STOP coming down on the cheaters, hackers and exploiters because they may accidently ban someone who is legit? Do you want them to spend days hand reading log upon log each time someone deny's their accusations?

Mistakes happen and from your disjointed story it sounds like you were lucky to get your account back. I know others who never did despite being 'innocent' and making their pleas to SoE.
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#18 Apr 10 2008 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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darkstarr wrote:
Elinda wrote:


It's unfortunate to you, the individual, that gets caught in the cross-fire perhaps, but from a communtity stand point, I'd say 'better safe than sorry'.



More than unfortunate. It's easy to take this line when it's someone else getting banned for no good reason. Would you say the same thing if you were in Polley's position? "Oh well, I did nothing wrong and they banned me. Tough luck, but better safe than sorry."
No good reason is a complete unknown. Admittedly Polly may have been grouped with individuals who were using a hack and could have benefitted from it.

So yeah...better safe than sorry. Better to ban Polly and 100 hackers than let the game go to hell. (however the ironic thing here is Polly got her account back...WHAT IS THE PROBLEM!!)
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#19 Apr 10 2008 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
26 posts
I really do agree with you Elinda. And I'm sure that Sony will be making an effort to fine tune their detection methods, I just would like them to acknowledge that. I most definitely don't want them to stop their efforts, nor do I think they would over a few issues like this.

As for what Darkstarr said. That was an interesting point about the account being compromised, I'm not sure why anyone would log my character to level it for me haha. But in any case i have changed the password just to be safe.

Polley
#20 Apr 10 2008 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
*
125 posts
If Sony were to ban everyone who had unknowingly grouped with a macroquest user or hacker at some point in their EQ careers, I'm sure the majority of people on this board would have lost their accounts by now.

Edit: grammar

Edited, Apr 10th 2008 3:39pm by darkstarr
#21 Apr 10 2008 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
darkstarr wrote:
If Sony were to ban everyone who had unknowingly grouped with a macroquest user or hacker at some point in their EQ careers, I'm sure the majority of people on this board would have lost their accounts by now.

Edit: grammar

Edited, Apr 10th 2008 3:39pm by darkstarr


QFT

I actually grouped with someone about two weeks ago in BoT who admitted to me he had one of his accounts banned for a macro. I don't think he was using one in that group but how was I to know? If he was, do I deserve to get banned?

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#22 Apr 10 2008 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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darkstarr wrote:
If Sony were to ban everyone who had unknowingly grouped with a macroquest user or hacker at some point in their EQ careers, I'm sure the majority of people on this board would have lost their accounts by now.

Edit: grammar

Hardly, personnaly if I was grouped with a macro-quester I would likey know it. Polly apparently didn't (though who really knows??) and so they gave her her account back.

MOST people will know or have a dam good idea something if not kosher. If they make the decision to play dumb and go along with it, they're taking the risk.

I don't cheat, I don't use exploits, I don't buy second-party stuff, I ride a high horse and I see the MMO world deteriorating around me...and I don't like it.

...and here come people complaining about the corporation...like that's gonna do any good - like SoE is paying any attention to individuals. You wanna be indignant then be indignant at the cheaters and people trying to make a profit from our entertainment.

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#23 Apr 10 2008 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Monsieur shadomen wrote:
darkstarr wrote:
If Sony were to ban everyone who had unknowingly grouped with a macroquest user or hacker at some point in their EQ careers, I'm sure the majority of people on this board would have lost their accounts by now.

Edit: grammar

Edited, Apr 10th 2008 3:39pm by darkstarr


QFT

I actually grouped with someone about two weeks ago in BoT who admitted to me he had one of his accounts banned for a macro. I don't think he was using one in that group but how was I to know? If he was, do I deserve to get banned?

..and did you report him?
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#24 Apr 10 2008 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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Bans-by-association are only used in extreme cases, like if someone zones in to Anguish with every mob dead and only a monk in zone, and loots every named.

Quote:
Hardly, personnaly if I was grouped with a macro-quester I would likey know it.

I guarantee that you have, and guarantee that you did not notice. It's easy to tell if you are grouping with a GKer certainly, but what about a monk who is using MQ's map features to make splitting a little easier? or a cleric who automatically CH'es at 60% or dvarbs at 20%?

Quote:
..and did you report him?

if his other account was already banned, what good would reporting him do? If you get caught hacking SOE won't ban all of your accounts unless it's something incredibly egregious. He'd already been punished by SOE, and if SOE cared to check (and who knows, they might have) they certainly could have easily found out about his other accounts.
#25 Apr 10 2008 at 1:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Hardly, personnaly if I was grouped with a macro-quester I would likey know it.
How?

I had a good friend and grouping companion back in the day on Saryrn who I used to play with nightly. He once admitted to me that he sometimes used 3rd party programs like ShowEQ. I was surprised because I wouldn't have figured him to be "the type" but I certainly wouldn't have known either if he hadn't told me. You can use 3rd party applications with more subtlety than announcing what every mob is going to drop and how many seconds until it spawns again before you warp over to pull it.
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#26 Apr 10 2008 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Elinda wrote:
Hardly, personnaly if I was grouped with a macro-quester I would likey know it.
How?

I had a good friend and grouping companion back in the day on Saryrn who I used to play with nightly. He once admitted to me that he sometimes used 3rd party programs like ShowEQ. I was surprised because I wouldn't have figured him to be "the type" but I certainly wouldn't have known either if he hadn't told me. You can use 3rd party applications with more subtlety than announcing what every mob is going to drop and how many seconds until it spawns again before you warp over to pull it.
Apparently ShowEQ didn't have any impact on your game. You did't benefit from it???

In this case the claim is that Polly recieved more xp than was due her. That's something that if you're involved with for any lenght of time, you should be able to detect.

I dunno Joph...were you 'cheating' when I played with you?

I just fail to see what the deal is with SoE's actions here. They went after cheaters, through association (alledgedly) someone was banned that shouldn't have. SoE returned the account.

Apparently SoE had proof. At least they said so in their emails to the OP. Was the 'proof' in error. I dunno, but should they simply ignore it?

If SO many of us have grouped with cheaters, and if SoE is so indiscriminate in their assessements of wrong-doing, WHY aren't we all banned?

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#27 Apr 10 2008 at 1:58 PM Rating: Excellent
I would have to add that some exploiters dont get banned because what they are doing is not ban-able even though others may feel it is exploiting. Sometimes its just positioning and pathing that ppl use to their advantage. That stuff often gets 'fixed' if you mention it.

I was the one that posted here about Muckdiver not entering melee and he is now changed to do a lot of melee.

Not sure if that 1.5 epic step done at the POK book outside of Akanon has been fixed. Ppl usually just take the book to pok to avoid the DT and then zone back to enter the fight some more.

When pulling some mobs some times I take them through bad pathing so that it delays their arrival at the group until the grp is rdy to handle it. That way I dont need to fade and retag. The mob just runs off in a bad direction and I shift around so that it wont warp.

So banable offenses like 'hiding in the geometry' are kind of nebulous to me. I dont even know exactly what that is. I know of no spot where I can just stand still and kill a mob where it cant hurt me.

Now, if I were a ranger, just about every zone has spots for them to stand and shoot down a mob and it wont attack them. Thats just the ranger bow aggro distance calculation. I dont consider that exploiting, just a ranger trick to soloing for some mighty slow exp.

Edited, Apr 10th 2008 3:01pm by kirbyramz
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#28 Apr 10 2008 at 2:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Apparently ShowEQ didn't have any impact on your game. You did't benefit from it???
I assume I indirectly did.
Quote:
In this case the claim is that Polly recieved more xp than was due her. That's something that if you're involved with for any lenght of time, you should be able to detect.
Your claim, however, was that you would know if you were grouped with someone using Macroquest (or presumably other like-minded 3rd party apps).
Quote:
I dunno Joph...were you 'cheating' when I played with you?
Moi? Nope. I never had any interest in trying to look into cheats. My friend said he had to run ShowEQ on another computer running Linux. Way too much work for me for the sake of a video game (that and I'm one computer short).

My sole point was that you likely wouldn't know if someone in your group was cheating unless they were acting blatant about it.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#29 Apr 10 2008 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
26 posts
Well here's an update on what is going on.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Lead GM Encegawi) 04/10/2008 01:57 PM
I've had my senior GM take the time to give me a very detailed report on the actions you were accused of. He agrees that the level of cheating was not severe, and a suspension and rollback would have been sufficient. The check was run for the last 45 days, and these are the dates where your character was cheating without a doubt:

2-26
2-28 Hacked 55 discipline Quest
2-29
3-1
3-2
3-3
3-4
3-6
3-15
3-16
3-17 Hacked entire Lguk zone attempting to pop fabled's

Items looted while hacking:

2-28 Takish Ruins - About a thousand lines of confirmed "hacking" client.
Lifestone of Spring
Indium Ore
Lifestone of Summer
Lifestone of Winter
Lifestone of Autumn

3-17 Lower Guk - About 18,121 lines of confirmed "hacking" client
Short Sword of the Ykesha
An Executioners Axe
Skull-shaped Barbute
Executioners Hood

So with this evidence suspending and rolling your character back is only a warning to you not to cheat any further. Your involvement in cheating was much more than just being a part of a group, you were actively hacking the client software. Over the last month and a half you cheated and gained in one way or another. The rollback probably didn't remove every item you had gained from this, but the only option from there is to wipe the character entirely. As you can see the suspension and rollback is the absolute limit I am willing to go to resolve this issue. I cannot reimburse any items lost from the rollback regardless of how they were obtained. Refrain from using third party software, and nothing will ever be removed from your account. I hope you can understand my point, but if there were any other questions or comments you want to make please let me know.

~ Lead GM Encegawi

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Lead GM Encegawi) 04/10/2008 03:38 PM
I've spoken to my manager again about this case and he's decided to allow you the LoN item cards back to your character. I will go ahead and reset the claim on the items, but I will need you to give me an accurate list of the items that were removed so I can match that up with our server logs. Please also note that this is a one-time only exception. Should you be caught cheating again, the account will immediately and permanently be banned.

~ Lead GM Enceagawi
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Customer (Polley) 04/10/2008 05:03 PM
I have talked with many people about this via an Allakhazam's forum. We all agree that Sony's Effort to ban Cheaters and exploiters is commendable. I thank you for taking the time to really take a good look at this.

I also want to thank you for showing me the logs that you have concerning hacking the client. Each and Every one of the zones, items, disciplines and mobs killed that you have are correct. However the thing is that I do not hack, nor have I Ever. Please don't get me wrong, I consider the matter resolved, but now the question comes "Why am I showing up as hacking"

Ill give you an account of these items as best I can.

2-26
2-28 Hacked 55 discipline Quest
2-29
3-1
3-2
3-3
3-4
3-6
3-15
3-16
3-17 Hacked entire Lguk zone attempting to pop fabled's

Items looted while hacking:

2-28 Takish Ruins - About a thousand lines of confirmed "hacking" client.
Lifestone of Spring
Indium Ore
Lifestone of Summer
Lifestone of Winter
Lifestone of Autumn

3-17 Lower Guk - About 18,121 lines of confirmed "hacking" client
Short Sword of the Ykesha
An Executioners Axe
Skull-shaped Barbute
Executioners Hood




As for the 17th of march in the lower Guk zone. I went their with a guild mate names XXXXX, a 55 warrior to get her some fabled drops. I stayed mostly to the undead side killing PH's and mobs along the way.
We cleared the PH for frenzied ghoul, moved to the ghoul lord PH and as i was checking spawns we picked up a Dark Elf Cleric who was also wanting the frenzied. I know that XXXXX does not hack! As for the cleric, when I came upon him he was afk in front of the Frenzied spawn he told us when he came back that he had been there for awhile. We didn't manage to get any fabled mobs to pop that day.

As for 2/28 in Takish Hiz.
I zoned in alone and killed the four roaming mobs which drop the four lifestones. I was the only one in the zone until the last one i killed, which i believe was summer but i cant recall exactly. At that point a bard and what i believe to be her druid and shaman came over and were waiting while i killed it. The bards songs did land on me while they were near. After that I turned the drops in, got my discipline and left.

Is it possible that I was grouped with a cleric that was hacking and was casted on by a bard that was hacking? I know how this must sound, considering that you have confirmed evidence of me hacking, I must sound like a bold face liar.

Im afraid to even play the game now because I don't know what is causing this to happen, if i zone somewhere and start killing theres a chance that this might happen again... and the last thing that I want is to get my account permanently banned.

Im sort of out of options and thoughts. I really need your help to figure this out...I have changed my password on the account, and checked the files on my computer for any botting software, spy ware or viruses and there are none that I found. Is there any specific name that i should search for that you know of?!

PLEASE, help me! Ill take any advice or thoughts that you may have! Something is very wrong here.

Polley
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So Sony has rectified the situation. I still need to get them the list of Items I'm missing, but what concerns me more is that they have thousands of lines of code that show me as hacking.

I'm hoping they will have some help for me! I'm not going to play the game until we figure it out, the account is not banned anymore but they assure me that if they see me cheating that they will ban me permanently. So im thinking its best to just stay away.

I have checked my computer for bot programs, spy ware, Trojans and viruses, and have checked for other programs relating to EQ in anyway. Besides Magelo I have not founf any.

Ive asked Sony for help figuring this out, does anyone here have any suggestions?! Is there some way that there is a program running on my computer that I don't know about?

I feel really stupid now, I fought this and now they have shown me evidence that Im cheating...and I have no way to disprove it.

Any suggestions? ill take anything at this point!


Polley
#30 Apr 10 2008 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
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PolleyPauhana wrote:
Is it possible that I was grouped with a cleric that was hacking and was casted on by a bard that was hacking? I know how this must sound, considering that you have confirmed evidence of me hacking, I must sound like a bold face liar.

Im afraid to even play the game now because I don't know what is causing this to happen, if i zone somewhere and start killing theres a chance that this might happen again... and the last thing that I want is to get my account permanently banned.

Im sort of out of options and thoughts. I really need your help to figure this out...I have changed my password on the account, and checked the files on my computer for any botting software, spy ware or viruses and there are none that I found. Is there any specific name that i should search for that you know of?!

PLEASE, help me! Ill take any advice or thoughts that you may have! Something is very wrong here.

Polley
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So Sony has rectified the situation. I still need to get them the list of Items I'm missing, but what concerns me more is that they have thousands of lines of code that show me as hacking.

I'm hoping they will have some help for me! I'm not going to play the game until we figure it out, the account is not banned anymore but they assure me that if they see me cheating that they will ban me permanently. So im thinking its best to just stay away.

I have checked my computer for bot programs, spy ware, Trojans and viruses, and have checked for other programs relating to EQ in anyway. Besides Magelo I have not founf any.

Ive asked Sony for help figuring this out, does anyone here have any suggestions?! Is there some way that there is a program running on my computer that I don't know about?

I feel really stupid now, I fought this and now they have shown me evidence that Im cheating...and I have no way to disprove it.

Any suggestions? ill take anything at this point!


Polley
Well you've certainly taken the time to inform us and it is an eye opening story. I apologize for any rightousness I might have thrown at ya earlier, it just seemed to me that this time (and I have no love for SoE) the blame, if there was to be blame, was misplaced. Hackers piss me off.

Thanks for the info. If nothing else, we've learned we need to be more aware of what's going on when we're grouped with strangers.

What you do now?

I'd just play. If you don't you might as well be banned - as the outcome is still no EQ.

(You start Polley's Crusade Against Hackers...lawl)
****

<3 Joph.

I'll read, maybe respond to your most recent post here later. Smiley: grin My heads realing from cost-benefit analysis atm.

Edited as I didn't mean to quote all that:/ ...and typos





Edited, Apr 11th 2008 4:39am by Elinda
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#31 Apr 10 2008 at 11:35 PM Rating: Default
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To be honest my bullsh*t meter went off when groogle posted. Not about groogle but about what he said. I cannot imagine sending any emails this nice to sony if my account had been "incorrectly tagged" a hacker. Maybe you are just a better person then me I know one person who never gets pissed. To be frank his lack pisses me off but =P. But after about reply 4 from them of me trying to be nice and them giving me the same old answer I would have hit the roof.

If your story is true then sorry maybe you are one of the 1 in a 1000 saint types who no matter how agreived can act like Ghandi. Personally I doubt it.
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#32 Apr 11 2008 at 3:45 AM Rating: Decent
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I just had to wonder, as someone who had their accounts hacked recently, if you were keylogged and someone was useing your account for profit when you were not online.
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George Carlin.

#33 Apr 11 2008 at 6:30 AM Rating: Decent
flishtaco wrote:
To be honest my bullsh*t meter went off when groogle posted. Not about groogle but about what he said. I cannot imagine sending any emails this nice to sony if my account had been "incorrectly tagged" a hacker. Maybe you are just a better person then me I know one person who never gets pissed. To be frank his lack pisses me off but =P. But after about reply 4 from them of me trying to be nice and them giving me the same old answer I would have hit the roof.


What is the old saying...you get more flies with honey etc...

This whole situation worries me. If Polley's story is 100% accurate, I could, without knowing, be running some background software that could be considered a hack. I wouldn't want SOE to ban my account after all of the hard work I put into my characters.

BTW, this was hypothetical and not extreme paranoia.
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#34 Apr 11 2008 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
It was stupid of the devs to say you hacked the Takhish seasons mobs. They are stupid easy mobs that are ALWAYS up. The only minor minor inconvience is that you may have to kill summer and fall several times before the spring one pops. But, they are always up!!!!

When I melee solo them with my bard I ocassionally hit 99% health but then immediately regen to 100. They are stupid easy mobs. I took my 65 monk with zero AA there and soloed them also. Its just a longer fight with a lvl 65 toon.

IRIDIUM ORE!!!! OMG!!! what uber loot that a hacker will always go after!!!!

18000 lines of hacking in LGUK? what the heck? Anybody who spends a couple hours there spawning fabled by killing the PH's will get a couple scrappy items, but is this what a hacker is going after? Years old almost-useless junk? They are being stupid on this. Why bother laying the hammer down on what is obviously not hacking.

If they suspected Polley to be 'testing' out new hacking software by going to innoculous zones, then, well, keep watching and seeing if he actively hacks something that hackers go after like TSS boss mobs or Frostcrypt armors. That is the stuff ghosts were after.

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#35 Apr 11 2008 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
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187 posts
Interesting to say the least,

and flat out frightening.

What is "Ghosting"? How would I know if my computers have a third party hacking program running?

Is this another GOOD reason to not group?

I have AVG, Spybot, Anti-Spy, AD-Ware and Black Ice firewall on all of my machines, although I have not experienced any problems with them, game related or not, I am concerned, am I protected?

For the past several months I have experienced some weird warping thing, where I seem to jump back to a place I was minutes before (I keep the connection bar up now constantly and oddly it never seems to jolt down when this happens).

I also have been experiencing a weird problem when my Cleric rezz's, she more often than not now goes LD with in seconds after the person being rezz'd clicks on the "yes".

This problem occurs when I am grouped and ungrouped and happens more often in the Guild Lobby, but has occurred out in the zones as well. Honestly, I've got a better chance of not going LD when I'm not in GL doing rezz's which is why she no longer accepts donations, rezz's are free and something of a lottery for me.

I do however: receive at least 3 or more "plat/PL" spams per hour when I am logged in, even when annon, or sitting silently in the Baz.

God I miss the days of Duke Nukem'

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#36 Apr 11 2008 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Hey,

Was the axe actually "Messenger of the Queen"?

My pali "Hakuna Matata" had that happen to her in the EC tunnels once.
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Al Einstien

"Where in the bloody hell is all this water coming from?"

R. Smith, Capt. RMS Titanic
#37 Apr 11 2008 at 7:32 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
Well SoE makes me feel bad when they pull out the Holier than Thow card after all the stuff they do wrong. Like advertise for EQPLAYERS when they know it has been busted since July of 2007 and they continue to offer money back to folks who subscribe for advanced features.

I don't like folks who hack, but I don't like SoE to cheat either. I think if SoE wants to clean up Everquest, they should start with themselves and then proceed.
#38 Apr 13 2008 at 4:57 AM Rating: Good
26 posts
Well thanks for the feedback folks. And No worries Elinda, I didn't think you had a holier that though attitude, just that you were skeptical, which I would have been too.

I still haven't played yet, and I haven't called tech support yet either to see if they can help.

But I did want to say THANK YOU to Fishtaco and his Bullsh*t meter, you compared me to Ghandi! Thats pretty freakin awesome!! LOL

Polley

#39 Apr 14 2008 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
There are a lot of detailed descriptions of Ghosting. I will give a very short simple one here. keep in mind that now Sony can track this and will kill you if you do this.

1. enter a zone with a boss mob
2. move to a spot far away from the boss mob
3. turn on ghost 3rd party software to start your ghost and no-delay wpns.
4. run your ghost, (kind of like the 'eye' ppl use to scout), over to the boss
5. kill the boss with your ghost since he cant be hit and does 32000 dps instead of 500-1000 like normal. Kill all adds and all mobs that could hurt your normal toon.
6. turn off your ghost and run your normal toon over to the boss and loot whatever he dropped
7. (get a msg from a GM that your account is being terminated)

What is happening is you are forcing your toon to shadowstep from your current location back to the starting location 10 times a second. This way a mob can never hit you because you always shadow step faster than he can catch you, but you can swing and hit them because you are in two places at once almost. Nodelay puts your wpns at 40/0 instead of 40/30 or whatever. You actually hit as fast as you would double attack or triple attack but continuously.
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#40 Apr 15 2008 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It's unfortunate to you, the individual, that gets caught in the cross-fire perhaps, but from a communtity stand point, I'd say 'better safe than sorry'. An MMO community is owned by the game, they can make whatever decisions they want...they don't have to follow a bill-of-rights, or a constitution. They may decide that if a few innocents get banned it's still worth it if they can root out the problem.


Just an observation, but I am not sure you would be saying better safe than sorry if you were on receiving end of this kafkaesque comedy.

#41 Apr 15 2008 at 12:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I have no idea if this may or may not have applied to you, butlast night something strange happened to me.

I was on my warhorse from the expansion gift, you know the one that is as slow as run0 i think, anyway, i alt tabbed out and back and noticed that we were heading to get a new task. I promptly caught up with a pally on her unicorn and passed her. I clicked off of the horse and i moved even faster.

Additionally, on my screen it looked like everything was moving faster, but the mobs would lag, and pop back a distance and come runing again.

Now, the interesting thing, is that the Paladin saw me pass her. so i was really moving this fast in the game, and when i stopped, i turned so fast i spun completely around,

So, what i am getting to, is did your movement seem any faster than normal? could this be what they saw and thought it was you hacking?

In any case, i /bugged it incase someone saw and thought i was cheating. Rebooting seemed to fix it.
#42 Apr 15 2008 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
Maybe your diety blessed you with Bard speed, because you have been such a good girl, putting up with that slow nag and all.
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#43 Apr 15 2008 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
26 posts
Interesting point Kasandra,

But no, during the time they have me as hacking I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary.

I did notice however that when they originally banned the account they said they had evidence of me hacking in "Dreadlands, Bastion of Thunder, Muramite Proving Grounds and Crushbone" but when i asked for more info about it they gave me logs from two weeks earlier in Takish Hiz and Lower Guk.

Kirbyramz gave a description of how ghosting is done. I can only assume that the ghost killing programs take advantage of flaws in game stability that already exist. So I suppose it it possible that when someone has a bad connection, or is losing packets from the server, that it could look like some sort of warping effect. Id guess thats what happened to you Kasandra. Sony does not want to discuss the matter anymore so we'll never know if that is the case.

Polley
#44 Apr 15 2008 at 9:37 PM Rating: Decent
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3,937 posts
Quote:
So I suppose it it possible that when someone has a bad connection, or is losing packets from the server, that it could look like some sort of warping effect.

Nope, it's not.

There are a lot of weird bugs with speed though, that especially afflict AMD dual core processors.
#45 Apr 15 2008 at 11:15 PM Rating: Decent
26 posts
Well at least It's easy to tell the difference between the two. And as for Kasandra well if your running an AMD DC, looks like that might be your answer.


Polley
#46 Apr 16 2008 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
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It's all 1's and 0's. SOE can tell who is really hacking and who isn't. It's a matter of them not caring enough to fully investigate unless pushed otherwise. I know a person who was banned for "hacking". After weeks of emails and calls my friend got his account back with a half ass apology. The fact of the matter is the reason they don't want to share the information of what you were doing is because they would have to invest the time into actually researching it. They gave the exact copy and pasted reason to my friend who I know for a fact doesn't cheat/hack.

1) Active hacking - Server logs and/or visual GM confirmation showed the character using third party programs to hack the game.
2) Group participation - You were part of a group that had one or more members actively hacking. Your character gained experience, items and/or flags for being part of the group.


Canned response, and unfortunately enough people don't call them on it.

I don't think that 1 innocent person is worth getting rid of 100 hackers. It's all fine and dandy until they come after you.

It's funny though, they are dropping flags for past expansions and upping AA exp to appeal to new people, but at the same time now you have to be worried who you group with or you'll get banned for something they do. I wouldn't want to pay for a game where the main emphasis is on grouping, but you could get banned for grouping with random person_01 because they hack and you don't know it.
#47 Apr 16 2008 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Groogle wrote:
Quote:
So I suppose it it possible that when someone has a bad connection, or is losing packets from the server, that it could look like some sort of warping effect.

Nope, it's not.

There are a lot of weird bugs with speed though, that especially afflict AMD dual core processors.


AMD Dual core processors, hmmmm, that would be me, know if a workaround?
#48 Apr 22 2008 at 7:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Man, that's freakin' scary.

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#49 Apr 22 2008 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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muck around with processor affinity and it should help.
#50 Apr 22 2008 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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kasandra wrote:
AMD Dual core processors, hmmmm, that would be me, know if a workaround?


Their's a link to a program somewhere on the SOE forums. I believe it's also on the AMD website.

Or, as groogle said, adjust the affinity so EQ runs on a single core. Thats what I did until I found the sync program for AMDs.

Groogle, no more admin?
#51 Apr 23 2008 at 7:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
AMD Dual core processors, hmmmm, that would be me, know if a workaround?


Try disabling SpeedStep in the BIOS. The Dual-Core Optimizer helped, but EQ still acted really weird.
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