Forum Settings
       
1 2 Next »
Reply To Thread

Coming Soon: Virtual DebtFollow

#27 Nov 17 2005 at 7:25 PM Rating: Decent
**
642 posts
maybe he's looking at the entire industry and converting to dollars.

is it so impossible to state "for EQ, IGE states 1million USD were exchanged for 2million platinum" and not be correct based upon IGE's numbers? *note: just for ,y own safety, those figures i used were made up.

regulation: i think the implied is outside regulation from whoever makes the game. rather like if the situation were in *EQ or *SWG and folks started petitioning SOE to do something.

*edited b/c of acronymitis =)

Edited, Thu Nov 17 19:46:31 2005 by joev
#28 Nov 17 2005 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
**
642 posts
.. yes i know and considering todays massively diverse radio programming as well as 2 fully operational satelite radio companies NPR is an outdated idea.


er, ok.
#29 Nov 17 2005 at 7:31 PM Rating: Decent
**
642 posts
Reyla wrote:

To Professor Galthran.

You point out something that makes more sense than most people discussing this have. Companies like IGE already pay taxes. Individual transactions can't be taxed.

Try this one for example. I am a US citizen living in Japan and I buy virtual plat from a Chinese citizen living in Denmark playing Lineage, a Korean game. Silly.
Regulation is just double-speak for getting in on the action. Everyone wants to make money, governments are no exception.

Edited, Thu Nov 17 19:28:38 2005 by Reyla


decided to try the anecdotal approach and threw out a post on another board i caught answer:

When I buy something from the USA I am not charged any US state sales tax because I don't live in the state where the seller is located.

When the package arrives in Denmark the Danish customs department may or may not grab the package and charge customes and VAT (sales tax). It's a bit of a lottery. If the seller is a private person, for example something I buy on eBay, then often it slips through because the packing looks amateurish and they assume it's a gift from a family member or something. But if it looks like something from a company, and certainly if it says Amazon on the package, then it gets nabbed.

The amount one has to pay for customs and VAT depends on the goods. Most goods are actually customs-free, for example software. VAT is always 25% for Denmark. For the UK I think it's 18%.

Hope this helps.
#30 Nov 17 2005 at 7:39 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
is it so impossible to state "for EQ, IGE states 1million USD were exchanged for 2million platinum" and not be correct based upon IGE's numbers? *note: just for ,y own safety, those figures i used were made up.


... if that is what he said I would tke his word for it. What he said was that the in game exchange of gold for services is a 20 billion dollar market. This is not the same thing as saying IGE sells this much gold, site 2 sells this much and site 3 sells this much so it all adds to 20 billion. Unless I am mistaken he is talking about every transaction that takes place in all mmo's.

Lets pretend he was talking about the total amount of all the plat all the known sites were selling. Again which exchange rate is he using? IS eq plat equal to WoW gold or silve or what? also what is the rate of exchange between ff gils and eq plat and wow gold etc etc. The very premise is just plain flawed. Not to mention you still have not converted it into rl cash.

Quote:
is something purchased in game, really a service? furthermore, is it possible in the future, in-game currency would be seen as foriegn currency, and thus, subject to whatever laws govern such thing?


... always like a devils advocate it keeps u in perspective. IS it a service yes it is just as much as tipping or anything else. People pay consultants huge salaries and fees isnt that the same? I dont even see the difference between buying an intangible product and a tangible one. The currenncy exchange stays the same. IF I buy shoes from china or plat from a guy in china running a website the currency exchange is still the same.

Quote:
is it so impossible to state "for EQ, IGE states 1million USD were exchanged for 2million platinum" and not be correct based upon IGE's numbers? *note: just for ,y own safety, those figures i used were made up.


.. Yes he can definately add up there sales but this is the 100 million dollar number he mentioned earlier. The 20 billion dollar number is total folly and has no basis in reality.

Quote:
regulation: i think the implied is outside regulation from whoever makes the game. rather like if the situation were in SOE and folks started petitioning SOE to do something.


.. if the people who make the game regulate it that is by definition inside regulation. In your example why would SOE petition itself? But if it did again that is inside regulation.

#31 Nov 17 2005 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
**
642 posts
". if the people who make the game regulate it that is by definition inside regulation. In your example why would SOE petition itself? But if it did again that is inside regulation."

sorry,i got a case of brain faster than fingers + a deadly dose of acronymitis. i edited the post, but see i should have stated "player" gah. lemme rephrase:

i think he's suggesting players of the game petition the maker of the game to do something about the counterfeiters. i don't know how sensitive the EQ economy is to dupers--i'm sure like any economy it can only handle so much but what number or amounts are involved i have no clue--but, the sake of illustrating the comment of players demanding regulation, if EQ players started petitioning SOE b/c such a thing happened and was noticable.

i listened again, and i agree--he does pull the 20b number ut of the rectal database with no backing.

however, i'm still chewing on the service vs product. lemme keep my horns on a little longer and see if ican find somoething betterillustrative. =)
#32 Nov 17 2005 at 8:28 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
NPR is an outdated idea.

Quote:
Lets pretend he was talking about the total amount of all the plat all the known sites were selling. Again which exchange rate is he using? IS eq plat equal to WoW gold or silve or what? also what is the rate of exchange between ff gils and eq plat and wow gold etc etc. The very premise is just plain flawed. Not to mention you still have not converted it into rl cash.

draco, please just stop talking.

Edited, Thu Nov 17 20:38:54 2005 by Groogle
#33 Nov 17 2005 at 9:52 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
draco, please just stop talking.


... wow what a great comeback that was. Any facts or theories you want to share? Any contradictions you have to something I said? Or is this one of you classic czaemon "lake of ill omens highway for powerleveling posts.

If you had some thoughts you wanted to discuss then post them otherwise maybe you should stop talking and leave the friendly debating to the adults.

Just out of curiosity how much plat you sell this week czaemon? You list any toons for sale on PA or ebay?

You know that when people talk about how they hate people who buy/sell plat and toons they are talking about you right?

Looking forward to your reply
#34 Nov 17 2005 at 11:52 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
wow what a great comeback that was. Any facts or theories you want to share? Any contradictions you have to something I said?

the first thing I quoted from you was just plain idiotic. the second was based off of a failure to understand plain and simple english, which was corrected and explained to you.. that you ignored.

Quote:
You know that when people talk about how they hate people who buy/sell plat and toons they are talking about you right?

you may have noticed I dont really care what people think of me =)

Quote:
If you had some thoughts you wanted to discuss then post them otherwise maybe you should stop talking and leave the friendly debating to the adults.

I wouldn't call anything you've posted a debate. It's mostly you throwing names at NPR without giving justification, or failing to speak english.

Quote:
"lake of ill omens highway for powerleveling posts.

I'm greatly amused that you remember posts I made months ago. I don't memorize my posts, so please refresh my memory.
#35 Nov 18 2005 at 12:37 AM Rating: Default
Quote:
the first thing I quoted from you was just plain idiotic. the second was based off of a failure to understand plain and simple english, which was corrected and explained to you.. that you ignored.


The first thing wa me saying NPR was outdated.

When npr was created we did not have nearly the nuber of raido stations or programs. Nor did we have 2 satelite radio companies. Currently millions of tax dollars go to support NPR even though it has slipped to almost total irrelevence ratings wise. These tidbits are called FACTS. If you choose to refute them thats fine but how about offering some.

The second was my calling out the announcer for a totally bogus number of 20 billion dollard.

You claim I misunderstood, then fine explain what I misunderstood, dont just make the statement w/o backing it up. I made several points about the games being entirely different universes and translating the day to day commerce on all the games on all the servers would be absolutely impossible. Even a person that disagreed with me said ...

Quote:
i listened again, and i agree--he does pull the 20b number ut of the rectal database with no backing.


... So please explain what I misunderstood. Try to come up with some facts or atleast a well thought out point of view so as not to embarass yourself.
Good Luck
#36 Nov 18 2005 at 12:55 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
... So please explain what I misunderstood. Try to come up with some facts or atleast a well thought out point of view so as not to embarass yourself.

Quote:
Also when he says trading in game gold for in game items is a 20 billion dollar a year market. This is single handedly the dunmest f'ing thing ive ever heard. What exchange rate is he using to translate the hundreds of in game currencies to rl dollars? which server is he going off of? The price on stromm is much different then the price on prexus. Then again since we are talking about totally different game universes the whole concept of even trying is stupid.

Quote:
Lets pretend he was talking about the total amount of all the plat all the known sites were selling. Again which exchange rate is he using? IS eq plat equal to WoW gold or silve or what? also what is the rate of exchange between ff gils and eq plat and wow gold etc etc. The very premise is just plain flawed. Not to mention you still have not converted it into rl cash.


then, as to your other gripe:

Quote:
When npr was created we did not have nearly the nuber of raido stations or programs. Nor did we have 2 satelite radio companies. Currently millions of tax dollars go to support NPR even though it has slipped to almost total irrelevence ratings wise. These tidbits are called FACTS. If you choose to refute them thats fine but how about offering some.

making up numbers != facts.
Quote:
Now that all the fall 2004 ratings have been crunched, the country's top morning radio show remains National Public Radio's "Morning Edition," heard here mostly on WNYC (93.9 FM, 820 AM).

Quote:
Its flagship programs are two drive time news broadcasts, Morning Edition, and the afternoon All Things Considered; both are carried by nearly all NPR affiliates and in 2002 were the second- and third-most popular radio programs in the country.


oh. and the satelite stations are currently irrelevant.

Quote:
Jim Collins, Sirius Radio spokesman, said with only about 4 million subscribers between Sirius and XM, satellite radio is in its infancy.
(march 20, '05 quote.)
oh. btw. that set of combined sirius and XM is less than just the number of people that traditional radio stations reach in atlanta in a week. morning edition has a listenership of 13 million, give or take a million or so.

now, draco.. can you stop making up stuff? please?

Edited, Fri Nov 18 01:05:49 2005 by Groogle
#37 Nov 18 2005 at 1:08 AM Rating: Default
I thought you said something about misunderstanding the quaote on the guy in the npr interview ... hmm still havent seen you mention a damn thing about it....

Where are these bs quotes about npr's ratings coming from?
Funny how these alleged quotes contradict every ratings chart in the trade magazines.

The number of stations and broadcasts being dramatically larger then before NPR started is true.

Their are 2 satelite radio stations are there not?
etc etc

Tell you what czaemon forget npr because that is secondary what about my "misunderstanding"? Can you justify the 20 billion dollar coment the guest made on the show?



#38 Nov 18 2005 at 1:51 AM Rating: Default
hmmm went to both arbitron and radio/recors sites. Neither listed any major NPR station in the top 30 for ratings in their market. Even the ones listed in your quotes had embarassing ratings.

Bottom line is NPR has zero rating. NPR does have some decent overall audience numbers because of the hundreds of stations that carry there free contentand get miniscule ratings. BTW that listenership seems totally confined to the mornings.

SO you said something about me not knowing what i was talking about when the guy spoke about the 20 billion?

Edited, Fri Nov 18 01:56:45 2005 by dracoboars
#39 Nov 18 2005 at 8:55 AM Rating: Decent
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,781 posts
dracoboars wrote:
hmmm went to both arbitron and radio/recors sites. Neither listed any major NPR station in the top 30 for ratings in their market. Even the ones listed in your quotes had embarassing ratings.

Bottom line is NPR has zero rating.
Edited, Fri Nov 18 01:56:45 2005 by dracoboars
I would guess NPR has no ratings because it doesn't broadcast it's programs itself. I listen to NPR programming through my local public radio station. I believe most of their programming is aired through local public radio....and just a guess but I'm betting most people still listen to NPR programs via a radio and not streamed from their website.

Yep, I mostly listen in the morning, but not exclusively.

Debate about the relevancy of NPR and it's programming aside, I find it disturbing that the sales of virtual money and items has grown enough that it has attracted the attention of the economists.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#40 Nov 18 2005 at 10:14 AM Rating: Default
When I did the arbitron and R/R search I specificaly looked for the public radio stations that carry NPR content. YOu can find them but there ratings are almost non existent. The audience they apparently reach is due to the fact that they are broadcast in literally thousands of morkets.


What I find disturbing is that 20 billion dollar comment going un questioned by the moderator.
#41 Nov 18 2005 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
Who would've thought that radio commentators would make up numbers on the spot to support their point!?!?!?!
#42 Nov 18 2005 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
Skelly Poker Since 2008
*****
16,781 posts
dracoboars wrote:

What I find disturbing is that 20 billion dollar comment going un questioned by the moderator.
The comment was "between 2 and 20 Billion" that's a huge range. It would be nice to know how that range was determined, but typically on radio reports they don't go into how data was obtained.
____________________________
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
#43 Nov 18 2005 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,015 posts
As to the need for regulation, I think the only regulating needed is from the game designers. If the economy of a game gets screwed up, no one will want to play, so it would behoove the designers to keep control i. e. kick cheaters out.

As to goverment taxation of this service, they already have their had in it as (at least in my state) where there is 6% sales tax, if you purchase something online and do not pay sales tax, you are supposed to declare this on your state income tax and pony up what is due. One nice thing they do have though is a calculated tax depending on your income so you can just pay this and you are safe. I think for me it is around $30-60 which is cheap insurance against being audited for not paying sales tax.

What other counties do? ***** them hehe..
#44 Nov 18 2005 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
... So please explain what I misunderstood. Try to come up with some facts or atleast a well thought out point of view so as not to embarass yourself.

Quote:
Also when he says trading in game gold for in game items is a 20 billion dollar a year market. This is single handedly the dunmest f'ing thing ive ever heard. What exchange rate is he using to translate the hundreds of in game currencies to rl dollars? which server is he going off of? The price on stromm is much different then the price on prexus. Then again since we are talking about totally different game universes the whole concept of even trying is stupid.

Quote:
Lets pretend he was talking about the total amount of all the plat all the known sites were selling. Again which exchange rate is he using? IS eq plat equal to WoW gold or silve or what? also what is the rate of exchange between ff gils and eq plat and wow gold etc etc. The very premise is just plain flawed. Not to mention you still have not converted it into rl cash.

gg reading comprehension.

oh well, I'm headed down for the stanford game, be back on monday.
#45 Nov 19 2005 at 3:51 AM Rating: Decent
Still waiting for you to tell me what I misunderstood about the 20 billion dollar statement. You have posted several times since making the statement. Each time Ive called you out and each time you have failed.

Still waiting .......
1 2 Next »
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 148 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (148)