in which class is a casual player closest to a hardcore raiding player? Which class has the biggest gap?
My guess would be tanks have the biggest gap because they are so gear dependent and bards are probably the least gear dependent.
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most? warrior, definitely.
least? I dunno, but I'm leaning towards beastlords. Beastlords can tank a lot better with gear admittedly, but there's not a tremendous dps difference due to how badly they scale.
least? I dunno, but I'm leaning towards beastlords. Beastlords can tank a lot better with gear admittedly, but there's not a tremendous dps difference due to how badly they scale.
I would say Tanks for sure. I am glad I didn't make a tank for my main because without raid gear you simply can't perform in certain groups. Usually people just look for certain classes based on level, but when it comes to tanks they will often times make sure they are capable to tank creator, Rss, etc.
Hi
Casters can have a fairly big gap as well(and I would think chanters have the biggest gap out of the casters)
But not as bad as a tank(as long as we have access to spells)
Edited, Mon Oct 17 22:03:22 2005 by elorianBLAH
But not as bad as a tank(as long as we have access to spells)
Edited, Mon Oct 17 22:03:22 2005 by elorianBLAH
Yeah i'd have to agree with the tank. They are the only classthat has the job of keeping the group alive by staying alive if they die it's likely that at least one other group member will. Though an ungeared cleric might be a bad idea.
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Though an ungeared cleric might be a bad idea.
a level 39 cleric could keep me alive in RSS, if they could zone in, heh.
Although low level aggro would get them eaten.
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Although low level aggro would get them eaten.
low level aggro's less substantial than I used to think it was.
just have a baby cleric heal you in wos, or something if you want to see.
The biggest gap is warriors. From HP to DPS to tanking, a casual player can only really hope to be half a raiding tank.
A close second would be rogues. Strictly from a DPS standpoint. The large gap found in piercer damage is absurd. Casual players can hope for the DoN dagger with a damage aug, and then you are takling about what an 18 damage piercer. Now a hardcore raider has what? A 29 damage piercer? Couple that with the haste and attack boosts that raiders get from gear.
Lumped together in third is anyone with mana. The mana pool of a raider and substantially larger than a casual player. Sure for a slow paced camp this may not matter, but in a "pushing the end game" camp, this will make all the difference.
The smallest gap would have to be the cleric. Cheal is still an overpowered spell.
A close second would be rogues. Strictly from a DPS standpoint. The large gap found in piercer damage is absurd. Casual players can hope for the DoN dagger with a damage aug, and then you are takling about what an 18 damage piercer. Now a hardcore raider has what? A 29 damage piercer? Couple that with the haste and attack boosts that raiders get from gear.
Lumped together in third is anyone with mana. The mana pool of a raider and substantially larger than a casual player. Sure for a slow paced camp this may not matter, but in a "pushing the end game" camp, this will make all the difference.
The smallest gap would have to be the cleric. Cheal is still an overpowered spell.
Zerkers are probably the largest now that I think about it..........They are by far the most item dependent class there is.............
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They are by far the most item dependent class there is
Wayen wrote:
{snip}Lumped together in third is anyone with mana. The mana pool of a raider and substantially larger than a casual player. Sure for a slow paced camp this may not matter, but in a "pushing the end game" camp, this will make all the difference.
Mana pool size only figures in large encounters and overpull OMGs. 20,000 mana or 2,000 doesn't matter over a multi-hour chain pulling session where you would empty that pool many times over. All the matters is mana regen.
Of my current standing mana regen of 93 a tick, only 15 comes from gear. Assuming tribute (which is pretty darn easy to farm.. current balance >100k pts) for a few essential foci (and allowing that my health regen would be down the 45 I am wearing so I would have to use a less mana efficient lifetap DoT now and then) the loss of 150 mana a minute from my gear would not signicantly change the volume or speed of my solo kills (one less DoT every two minutes).
Yes, my mana buffer for crisis would be less.. and my ability to take a shot (HPs) less. But.. it could be done, not seeing a huge gear dependency.
The portion of total mana regen that is worn FT is higher for other caster classes.. but even max worn of 20 is still only 200 mana a minute (like half a CHeal.. before Spec, Mana Pres, etc).
Ok.. cliky mana regen from gear would change the ratios.. but none of my gimp me's have any.
5 posts
Classes that rely on spells only need gear for focii and mana pool/regen. Classes that tank are far more gear dependent and thus need higher powered gear to be more effective.
I would have to go with cleric for least gap, warrior with most gap.
As an additional note, I've said this before on a different forum: Your AAs and skill will determine how well you can do stuff, your gear only determines how long you can keep going. As an example, I could tank Overlord Mata Muram with my AAs and skill (as a druid), but my gear says I can tank him for about 3/4ths of a round of combat ^,^
I would have to go with cleric for least gap, warrior with most gap.
As an additional note, I've said this before on a different forum: Your AAs and skill will determine how well you can do stuff, your gear only determines how long you can keep going. As an example, I could tank Overlord Mata Muram with my AAs and skill (as a druid), but my gear says I can tank him for about 3/4ths of a round of combat ^,^
The DoN dagger (with damage aug) is 17/18. While I definitely agree that there's a huge potential itemization gap for casual vs raid rogue daggers, I don't think it matters that much. If I'm level 70 with a crappy dagger the group is still going to live. I may not do as much damage as I hypothetically could, I'm still gonna do alot of damage and the mob will eventually die as long as the tank stays standing up.
A poorly geared tank, however, will directly limit the type of encounter the group will be able to manage. All melee can easily say they don't do as much dps as they would if they were raid geared; that still doesn't put them anywhere near the itemization gap of tanks.
A poorly geared tank, however, will directly limit the type of encounter the group will be able to manage. All melee can easily say they don't do as much dps as they would if they were raid geared; that still doesn't put them anywhere near the itemization gap of tanks.
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As an additional note, I've said this before on a different forum: Your AAs and skill will determine how well you can do stuff, your gear only determines how long you can keep going. As an example, I could tank Overlord Mata Muram with my AAs and skill (as a druid), but my gear says I can tank him for about 3/4ths of a round of combat ^,^
after raiding with you for several weeks, I'm pretty sure you could tank omm ALL NIGHT LONG
~tehlar
In terms of effectiveness for raids, the greatest would be warriors, least difference would be necromancer. In comparing bards and necromancers, think bards see more relative benefit from instrument mods than necros see from foci, at least in terms of raid benefits. For me telling a bard what to do, really want them to have a 3.4 drums mod, but necro could be buck naked and keep a cleric team going indefinitely in a situation where we'd wipe otherwise.
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