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heal or succor?Follow

#1 Oct 05 2005 at 9:13 PM Rating: Decent
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I wonder what others think on this point:

as a healer what do you do when things get iffy and tank is about the keel over.
Do you heal him and risk not being able to succor or do you succor and hope tank makes it?

#2 Oct 05 2005 at 9:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I generally use exodus if I know a heal wont land in time. It all depends on the amount of downtime. If my group will wipe I will exodus or succor(if exodus is not up) to minimize deaths.

It also depends on who is going to die. Dps classes who should not have agro I will usually let them die if I am main healer in the group and only heal them if there are no mobs in camp or if I am in the backup healer role. Clerics(or me if I am MH)/slower/tank is required for most groups I am in so u need them and should try to protect them at all costs.

There are certain times u must never evac and it is best to risk it all. Raids are one of these times. Another time is when u r fighting a named and would have to clear mobs again to get to it.

It all depends on the amount of downtime. If it's an ldon or a don with no respawn I will evac whenever since it takes a minute to run back. Dungeons with respawn...better to let them learn to pull better.



Edited, Wed Oct 5 22:36:12 2005 by TheGreatSieg
#3 Oct 05 2005 at 11:02 PM Rating: Good
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better to let them learn to pull better.


The reason I retired my Monk.

It has to be the pullers fault, it cannot possibly be an unskilled healer, CCer or tank.
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#4 Oct 05 2005 at 11:09 PM Rating: Decent
what is the group make up??? is there a char who can tank the last 30% of a mob or so???
#5 Oct 06 2005 at 4:22 AM Rating: Default
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The reason I retired my Monk.

It has to be the pullers fault, it cannot possibly be an unskilled healer, CCer or tank.


A decent puller would have gauged the effectiveness of the group and would pull accordingly ).
#6 Oct 06 2005 at 7:30 AM Rating: Decent
While I agree that to use exodus or succour depends on the situation you are in, I can't believe any healer would not heal people "because they shouldn't have the agro". I take it a personal failure if anyone dies when I am healer, not just the tank. I've been in groups where the healer doesn't heal me. I've usually left the group if still alive after the first real action. Every member of a group should try and work to the benefit of the group, not look out for themselves. People make mistakes, the rest of the group should cover for them, not let them die as a result.

Inchy
Yewson (63 druid)
#7 Oct 06 2005 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks all for replies but my question was a simple:
1- Do you heal tank knowing if you fail to cast in time all die
2- You succor hoping tank comes with you

It's not about bad pullers or bad healers, or bad groups.This is also not about me dying, it happens often and I am getting used to running nude through POK. Nor is it about my trying to safe my cute lil druid bum from aggro when the tank dies.

Just a simple "What do you do?".

We have all been in situations where you might be jumped unexpectedly by a whole bunch (someone who trains past your group for example) of mobs and where as a MH you know you not going be able to keep all alive, in a situation like that what do you do?

The tank I mostly group with has a policy "whatever happens get everyone out, don't worry about me, just save the others" (not that I listen too much to that and always try to fire off a quick heal anyways and then succor the group)

I was just wondering what other healers do. If there is a 'unspoken rule' between tanks and healers on how to deal with this?

Edited, Thu Oct 6 09:56:58 2005 by Maktub
#8 Oct 06 2005 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
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What level are you?

Druid is really limited as MH high 40s until you get your partial CH spell (level 58 iirc), and even then depending on the mobs. Best to have a Cleric if you can get one.

I tend to succor late only because I don't want to spoil all the hard work getting to a spot.

Get that mana-free succor item: Crucible of Escape (for druids/wizards only) Then you can go OOM and still succor.

I have been known to /gsay If the tank dies, the next spell I cast is succor.

or /gsay OOM, casting succor instead of next heal.
#9 Oct 06 2005 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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I play with my wife as the cleric. When she tells me that she is oom and can,t heal my tank anymore, I click exodus. If I wait to see if my tank will prevail the usual result is a complete wipe - not good. Quite often the tank does get left behind, but that's better than all dieing. Of course, we are causual players, not involved in raids, or for that matter, any high level named characters.

The time it requires to get back to where we where is never a factor for us - it just repesents more loot and XP.

Our usual group consists of 2 level 66 Druids, a 66 cleric, a 67 Rangers (I know, he is supposed to die a lot, and he does) and a 63 enchanter. WE have fun and do pretty good as long as we stay out of the planes - haven't figures out how to handle those yet.

Oh, it also helps that we all have veterans reward complete rez, as well as the cleric having the AA for 100% rez. Still, I think it's best in casual play to succor when it looks like a wipe is inevitable - and I think most folks know when that is coming if they play with the sme group on a regular basis.
#10 Oct 06 2005 at 11:04 AM Rating: Decent
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With the addition of the instant cast healing potions every tank should carry a couple for emergency heals. An instant 2k (65+) heal is well worth the 40p vendor cost. If your out of mana is one thing but not sure on time, the MT should take a bit of responsiblity to heal himself, its all a matter of communication. Being an SK I save my Leech Touch and healing disiplines for emergencies plus I carry a stack of potions, I have a seperate chat window for group. I also tell the healer if he is questionable on the heal to land to say so. Warriors have a disipline for a 10 sec reposite which can be used. A little preperation and good group communication should keep the MT going. As for healing others during a fight it depends on how fast the MT is taking damage and weather they can back off the mob. Now this is for normal actions when Adds, via pops or just a bad pull you use quick heals, group heals or evac if the sistuation calls for it
#11 Oct 06 2005 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
As a tank, my job is to kill and keep my party from being killed.

If there is good communication between tank and healer, then sometimes by all means we might make it, if not crap happens get everyone one out.

If I am left behind and die, that's what rez is for. I have saved my group of pasty, tasty casters from a splattering, they get to bring me back from the dead.

If I live, hunker down and figure out how to rejoin with the rest of the party, that way the killing can continue.

By all means though the key here is communication. Without it, everyone dies!
#12 Oct 06 2005 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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The answer so depends on many variables.

I would ask the Leader ahead of time if he/she wants some Evac available.

Most of the time I want to die in place.. because we have 2-4 Necros that can both personally escape and rez the cleric. So.. why do I want all the live people halfway across the zone from the bodies?

If you evac me from a camp that took an hour to get to while I am already feigned and ready to recover the group.. I am pissed.

But there are times when (as the previous poster mentioned) nothing respawns, or you are a short run from the Succor point that Evac is saving time, not costing it. So, sure, I expect to be able to call for it.

In general, any fight I am in that has a Druid questioning if your heal will land in time or matter, and Evac is an option at all, bug out at the first sign of trouble.

If evac is not an option, try and root and/or kite the thing and die with the rest of them.
#13 Oct 06 2005 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Raid - never, unless RAID LEADER tells me to.

Grouped, as long as I am not one room away from the 2 hour dungeon crawl I just did, I will normally succor.
#14 Oct 06 2005 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
I guess this tread is getting high jacked so here I go. I was in an LDoN I was tanking and Cleric and Chanter forgot or didn't know about my Lay of Hands I had let two of the group take some damage because they kept taking agro but everything is going pretty well I am down to like 25% the mob had expended his Mana. I got the OOM 2 seconds later everyone but me and puller are gone I lay hands and me and the druid are sitting there when everyone else get back I announce that me and the druid are rolling for the Mana AUG on the mob and Cleric and Chanter are pissed. I think I was right. I guess It all depends on the specifics of your group and shows how important knowing other classes skills are. To answer the original question I think Sieg had it right
Quote:
I generally use exodus if I know a heal wont land in time. It all depends on the amount of downtime. If my group will wipe I will exodus or succor(if exodus is not up) to minimize deaths.

It also depends on who is going to die. Dps classes who should not have agro I will usually let them die if I am main healer in the group and only heal them if there are no mobs in camp or if I am in the backup healer role. Clerics(or me if I am MH)/slower/tank is required for most groups I am in so u need them and should try to protect them at all costs.

There are certain times u must never evac and it is best to risk it all. Raids are one of these times. Another time is when u r fighting a named and would have to clear mobs again to get to it.

It all depends on the amount of downtime. If it's an ldon or a don with no respawn I will evac whenever since it takes a minute to run back. Dungeons with respawn...better to let them learn to pull better.
#15 Oct 06 2005 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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I guess this tread is getting high jacked so here I go. I was in an LDoN I was tanking and Cleric and Chanter forgot or didn't know about my Lay of Hands I had let two of the group take some damage because they kept taking agro but everything is going pretty well I am down to like 25% the mob had expended his Mana. I got the OOM 2 seconds later everyone but me and puller are gone I lay hands and me and the druid are sitting there when everyone else get back I announce that me and the druid are rolling for the Mana AUG on the mob and Cleric and Chanter are pissed. I think I was right. I guess It all depends on the specifics of your group and shows how important knowing other classes skills are. To answer the original question I think Sieg had it right


wow, I actually read and understood majority of what happened without much help from . , : ; ? !.. I think.
#16 Oct 06 2005 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Being as how I have exodus (if it is up) I wait til I know for sure that we will not make it and then I exodus us out. If I think there is a chance I will heal my little butt off. If the cleric and tank die I am casting exodus. If I am MH then the tank dies and I know I am next on the aggro list, I cast exodus. Like others said it is truly depending on the situation.
But if I understood the question correctly: if I know we will not make it I exodus.

Guv
lv 70 druid
#17 Oct 06 2005 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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thank you Guv :-) nice and concise answer
#18 Oct 07 2005 at 12:11 AM Rating: Decent
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I 2 boxed a Druid to heal, port, and buff my Ranger butt for something like 20+ levels, starting at level 46, pre Druid Cheal.

With the proviso that succor must be an option, I would succor instead of heal when I was certain the situation was out of hand, this was usually an overpull. At times I had to kite the mobs while the Druid cast, and time being in range of the succor. Hehe, I remember one time missing and having to kite a mess of Cyclops around their island while running the Druid back to try and succor again, with SoW dropping in the middle of the kite. Thank Tunare I had RS2 by that time. LOL.
#19 Nov 19 2005 at 6:29 AM Rating: Decent
One of my good friends i played early on with was a druid and was sometimes mhealer. He dealt succor vs heal like this: if the tanks going down so fast that the amount of mana thats gonna be needed to keep him/her alive during fight is more than he has and more than likely we'll wipe ,he evacs us right off the bat. Sometimes it suxxorz ballsack becouse certain spots really suk to get to(fungi king comes to mind) but he rather have the whole grp miss the mob/run back and be alive than us MAYBE getting the kill or MAYBE wiping.
#20 Nov 20 2005 at 11:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason I retired my Monk.

It has to be the pullers fault, it cannot possibly be an unskilled healer, CCer or tank.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



A decent puller would have gauged the effectiveness of the group and would pull accordingly ).


You missed my point. I can pull for an uber, fast killing Riftseekers group for 2 hours and suddenly the Cleric dies and it has to be the pullers fault.
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#21 Nov 21 2005 at 12:22 AM Rating: Default
back onto the topic..........succor........if someone ******* about you porting out safely tell them to run back to your camp spot and die...........
#22 Nov 21 2005 at 1:04 AM Rating: Decent
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back onto the topic..........succor........if someone ******* about you porting out safely tell them to run back to your camp spot and die...........
Remind me never to group with you.
#23 Nov 21 2005 at 1:13 AM Rating: Decent
Evac and Succor usually **** me off to be honest if I am in the group there is a better chance that I am gonna be able to live and rez the cleric then the Evac/Succor is going to save anyone critical to the group unless he/she has godlike timing like spiderman's "spidey sense". This is especially frustrating in mission trials where stuff repops as you move forward. Tipt is a prime example, evac means you start the mission over and 1-2 peoples bodies are now seperated by 10-50 mobs. Take the death let the necro rez in place all 6 bodies now in same place and we are not having to restart the mission.

Btw if by some odd thing you see me go down early wiz/druid feel free to ignore the above cause it is then a moot point.
#24 Nov 21 2005 at 1:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Remind me never to group with you


....that is assuming you could get into a group with me in the first place..........

Flishtaco I agree with you completely on missions(and if there is a necro in my group I wont succor.....which is why I asked what classes were in the group =p) If there is a necro in the group then forget it........

Also I care more about the CC than the tank when it comes to evac.......if the tank is down and we have a bard in the group and the healer is fine then i wont evac(hell i'll tank the mob if the healer's up =p)...But if the tank is falling and the CC is dead(which means adds......I don't think I would ever evac a single pull.......) then hell yes I'mma evac(unless there is a a slower and another pet class alive in the group....).........

Getting back to a camp is easy CRs are a waste of time and EXP.........
#25 Nov 21 2005 at 5:21 AM Rating: Decent
Ya I prolly should have qualified if its some real easy place to get to like say yall are biting it on a creator mission for whatever bad luck you have encountered ( ya no matter how good you are **** happens...or in latin ... escritis occurus=P) Then evac away me blowin a EE to rez the cleric prolly aint gonna happen anyway unless we are like real close on time or something.

(no except when soloing I have never seen a creator mission get blown that bad that I wish I had an evac but it could happen I spose but you would prolly have to really work hard and have all the wrong people for it to happen. As for soloing them 1 resist snare is darn, and a fd usually if I can pull it. But if fd is interupted and snare resists a second time its a oh ****, if fd is interupted again snare resisted a third time is a oh F$%K usually followed by me gettin pasted. Ya ok sometimes a stun or two can move the oh F&*k up a bit =P)
#26 Nov 21 2005 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
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....that is assuming you could get into a group with me in the first place..........


LOL right back at ya.

My groups don't need evac unless I'm dead. Than I don't care what you do.
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