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Building the perfect group?Follow

#1 Jan 21 2005 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
7 posts
Ok, Ok, I've been puzzling over this question for days when it was brought to me as an "expert" on EQ simply because I've played since the release of EQ, and have a couple of high level characters. What is the best composition of a group to make it mostly self sufficent. And I'm posed with the problem of ....

one player has a monk they want to play more than anything else but has a cleric main and would be willing to 2 box a cleric/healer type.
one player has a mage they want to play
one player has an SK they want to play
one player doesn't even have an account yet, but has decided they want to play a bard
and one player doesn't really care what he plays as long as it's something he's already got started

Now I've heard that monk/shaman make an excellent duo ... but a shaman as a primary healer I just don't see flying .... nor a druid as primary healer, however a druid would give the group transportability ... which is nice but is it really needed with the books ... of course there is always the plus with a druid of evac.....

so here's my quandry .. maybe some one can help me out with it ?

Edited, Fri Jan 21 12:47:19 2005 by Catrena
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#2 Jan 21 2005 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
161 posts
We have a small regular group of 4 ... 1 SK, 1 Ranger, 2 Shaman ... works great for us for the golems in PoV and the Pit in Tactics.

At times we also have a cleric and a druid. We can do the instanced zones from Dranik Scar without any deaths and moving along quite nicely.
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#3 Jan 23 2005 at 3:15 AM Rating: Default
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20,547 posts
For a "perfect" group, you need tank, healer, crowd control/slower, and DPS.

You would do fine with a Shaman as healer in most cases, as he can slow. The Bard can do crowd control and also slow.

Druids can also heal well enough and add DPS and transportability.

As long as you have all those bases covered to some extent you'll be fine.
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#4 Feb 02 2005 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
54 posts
You either need a puller or crowd control.
You need a tank.
You need a slower.
You need a healer.

The guy that has the monk is willing to 2-box a cleric so you've got your puller(monk) and healer.
You have your tank, the sk.
The mage is mainly dps.
The bard kind of duplicates the monk but can do some slowing and some crowd control. I like bards.
What you are missing is your slower. You need a chanter or shaman or beastlord. There are advantages to all of those.
#5 Mar 11 2005 at 8:58 AM Rating: Decent
4 posts
The best LDOn gorup i had been in....mid lvls like 20 to 30 we had 3 bsts,1mage,1cleric and an ench. Talk about DPS. Holy crap. We had the highest lvl bst tank. Rest of us just assisted with pets/nukes. Ench was crowd control. I am 45 and still remember that group. That group was the best.
#6 Jul 01 2005 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
49 posts
best group:
BARD - puller
CLERIC - main healer
SHAMAN - main slower / off healer
PALDYAN or shadow knight - main tank
enchanter - mezzes add & makes easyer for spells to land on mob

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#7 Jul 10 2005 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
1,638 posts
Warrior or Zerker(tank)
Cleric(main healer)
Bard(Puller Utility CC)
Wizard(DPS Utility/OT)

That's my favorite go for anything group
#8 Jul 10 2005 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
49 posts
my favorite group is:
cleric( healer)
shaman( slower)
magichan( dps)
enchnter( mezzer)
ranger( puller)

down ask me i have played in a while i lost a few billon brain cell form then hehe stupid rubber ducky brain....
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#9 Jul 16 2005 at 7:34 PM Rating: Decent
9 posts
This is a question that has many answers.

The best answer is 'it depends on where you want to fight'.

At level 70, the big thing right now is the DoN instanced "The Creator" mission.

I have done over a hundred of these, and the best combination I have seen is Druid, Cleric, Paladin, Enchanter, Rogue, Rogue. Druids give you the portability, pulls and backup heals along with decent DPS. I have healed with my druid in many missions with great success, but if someone dies, you need a rezzer and zero percent rezzes suck *8-P. Also, druids can only pull in outdoor zones like Creator(gawd, we suck indoors LOL). Warriors are the best tanks, but they can't buff the group. BBB over a whole group makes everyone better, last a little longer and help the cleric's DA. I go with chanters over shammies only because they combine slows and CC. Bards are great, but their slows/haste aren't as strong as shammie/chanter love. I go with rogues for the 2 DPS slots because I've found their DPS to be the best in the game, plus they can tank if necessary, where monks aren't so good at it and wizzies just can't. It's close though... and a 200AA monk or wizzie will blow away a similarly-equipped 100AA rogue.

If you want to do the indoor missions in places like LDoN, Dranik's Scar and RCoD, you need a monk or bard. Indoor dungeons are best done with Paladin, Cleric, Monk OR Bard, Wizzie, Shammie and Rogue. If you go with a monk, you might want to use a chanter instead of a shammie, 'cause you need crowd control.

As I see it, the biggest problem you have is that you are trying to accommodate a bard and a monk. The best groups have one or the other, not both.

Remember though... it's all about having fun, and having double pullers ROCKS for relaxing the healers and CC folks. It's also great if you're in a guild, to group your monks, bards and SKs. you can practise your sequence pulling (long distance pulling often uses multiple pullers, and when you're used to playing with certain people, it's MUCH smoother on raids.)

That's my two cents, anyhow. *8-P

Edited, Sat Jul 16 20:42:57 2005 by Healerfrog
#10 Aug 14 2005 at 12:05 PM Rating: Decent
4 posts
As a main bard myself, the BEST group you could POSSIBLY get IMO would be the following:

Bard - Puller, and emergency CC
Warrior - Tank TANK Tank. Remember: a warrior is NOT sufficient DPS (I SOMETIMES prefer a SK or a Pally in sole regard to all available warrior hp, If there is a hybrid on the loose and can tank better than a warrior, so be it! But usually the warrior comes through and has more damage mitigation than the others)
Enchanter - Full CC so bard can pull adds safely for quick kills, Can haste dps and slow mobs (SLOW IS A MUST) and can also provide mana to casters.
Druid - HEALER. I know some of you are asking, but why a druid over a cleric? 1)They have very nice DPS and nukes 2)THEY SNARE! 3) They can evacuate the group in time of emergency 4) They can 0% rez to allow you to continue battle until a passer-by cleric has the opportunity to rez for xp. 4) They can invis the group quickly 5) SOE/SOW 6) Did I mention their highest heal is so low mana cost and only a few hundred points under the highest cleric heal? What a bargain!
Rogue - DPS, rapes all mobs. End of story.
Beastlord! I prefer a beastlord over a wizard for the sole reason that they can paragon mana/hp to the group, and also they can pre-slow the mob before the enchanter gets to it so they can CC the adds and then prepare the final slow. Great DPS imo and can even heal in emergency.
#11 Aug 23 2005 at 12:32 PM Rating: Decent
245 posts
My wife and I play a bard, paladin and shaman with me 2-boxing the paladin/shaman. The only thing we don't have is corpse summoning, which is moot with the guild lobby.

We don't have the BEST of any particular ability. I can't tank like a warrior or slow like a chanter or buff like a cleric, but we have all the bases mostly covered:

Paladin: HP buffs, tank, can hold agro, moderate DPS
Bard: Clarity, pulling, CC, slow, snare, resist buffs, overcap haste. (Actually bard CC rocks, she can perma hold up to 4 enemies providing they can be mezzed)
Shaman: Stat/Resist buffs, haste, slow, DPS via dog + dots.

That group of three means aside from certain named mobs we can fill the other 3 group slots with pretty much anything and be good to go.
#12 Aug 30 2005 at 2:44 AM Rating: Decent
34 posts
Why is it that people always over look Necromancers?

How many times have you grouped with a necro with the spell "Mind Wrack" and said to yourself, gee it's nice having all this mana.

Necromancers can do group str, atk, and ac buffs. Heal the entire party. Kite adds and usually have them down low enough so they die quickly when the party has time. Necromancers can FD pull almost as good as a monk. Necros even get a 3 tick ghetto mezz. And if you're fighting undead a necro is a must with undead slows.

Hrmmm, why did nobody mention Necromancers? No wonder Necromancers solo so much.
#13 Aug 31 2005 at 5:40 AM Rating: Decent
4 posts
had a great group the other night with a ranger as the main tank :) druid / shammy for heals enchanter for CC and mage / rogue for dps was a great group but must say ranger had 14k hp which made it easy to heal him also dps
#14 Sep 07 2005 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
77 posts
AS I was reading these posts, I was thinking about the lack of mention of necros myself. My main is a cleric, and Necros are very helpful in creator missions. A Necro can provide much needed mana with Mind Wrack and mana dumps if necessary. Don't forget Wake the Dead when facing Furious Sentry, Creator, or any situation in which you need to kill quickly. They have good spells and a pet, can kite, etc.

My perfect group would be
Bard (pulls, mezzes, etc, etc) * a great bard can do a lot of things
Cleric (heals)
Shadowknight/Paladin (tank)
Shaman (slows,hastes,buffs)

But again like said above a toon with lots of aa's can be preferable to any. If adds are a problem, chanter is preferable to shammy.

Edited, Wed Sep 7 12:29:38 2005 by mtaylor
#15 Sep 09 2005 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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19,369 posts
Hrmmm, why did nobody mention Necromancers? No wonder Necromancers solo so much.
Have you ever thought that the reason they don't mention necros is because they mostly solo?

My perfect group would consist of:

1. Chanter
2. Cleric
3. Warrior/Shadow Knight
4. Necro
5. Rogue
6. Mage

You've got some good DPS, CC, slows, necro, sk, or chanter can pull.

Edited, Fri Sep 9 15:07:11 2005 by MentalFrog
#16 Sep 14 2005 at 7:20 AM Rating: Default
There is no ideal group really, it depends where you are. In the grp you theorise, tell your friend to make a necro (have your monk buy gate potions from the shaman.)

Necro = snare, FD split pulls, rezz if the worst comes to the worst, mezz and charm and slow if it's undead, screaming terror and fear (works well in PoN Hedge Trial for example), mindwrack if the mob has got mana, feeds to healers if it hasn't got mana, insane dot damage from spells that have huge negative resist checks and thus are almost never resisted unless a mob is flagged as immune to that line of damage, moderate nukes, and life tap self heals which make it almost never necessary to heal the necro. We can FD to lose aggro if we accidentally pull aggro away from the tank, and if you still need them, debuffs on the mob that give you +30 to STR and STA, +30 to all resists, crippling claudication to add +30 to your attack speed and strip it off the mob, and grp heal recourses, and in the worst case scenario we can heal you from our own HP. In the final washup, our rezz is 93% if the cleric dies so we are better than paladins, and we can even give you a buff that makes you levi, see invis, have eternal breath and adds about +80 to your poison resists.

Basically if your group doesn't have a necro it is not an optimal group regarding mana usage! Also, the reason so many necros solo, apart from personal preference, is the general prejudices displayed here, where people do not know about what we do so they never invite us. Since we don't NEED a group often times, we solo, but unbeknownst to them, many groups need us.

Edited, Wed Sep 14 08:27:00 2005 by Rathenecro
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#17 Oct 31 2005 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
25 posts
PSSHH! I say you can make a great group with all of the above recommendations BUT if a person doesn't know how to play their character it doesn't matter WHAT combo you use! Try playing with a 70 sk that doesn't know how to play their char and wipes raids but HE can FD and pull bodies for rezzes. Try playing with a 50 ranger that has NEVER used a bow and doesn't know what fletching is. Try playing with a 65 cleric that is meleeing their heart out and goes *whoops sorry you are dead, didn't see that*. Level means nothing, knowing your character does. I would rather play with a level 63 character that has been playing the same critter for 3 years over some dOOd that leveled to 70 "in like a week MAN aintplinggreat, MORE SUGAR!". It is all about having fun but you gotta admit, being raid buffed, sitting for an hour waiting for people to get their act together and biting it after 2 minutes of play (rinse and repeat) because some newbe things he is superman is NOT fun...
I personally like cleric, pallie, druid, shammie, rogue and mage. This is our core group, but then again we are all friends and play together a lot! Trust, knowing each others strengths and weaknesses, THAT makes an awesome group. IMO
#18 Nov 05 2005 at 2:21 AM Rating: Decent
1,122 posts
Heh this necro solos so much cause I say to guild, lfg, no answer, alliance 1, lfg, no answer, alliance 2, lfg, no answer.

Then I say farg it I tried and go on. I found if I am a lil persistant on a night I really want to group I get one but most of the time you get one shot otherwise I am off playing. If you say you are lookin for help to do something I will usually look to see if I wanna afore I answer, after all some people I just dont like enough to want to help, and others will want me to go to **** and gone for lil reward if any.

Sides group exp generally unless its MPG or greater is usually less then my solo exp and I get all the loots.

Sorta like the why whackin off is better then havin a partner arguement when you get down to it. I never have to worry bout anyone elses feelins, if they got mana, if they are afk, if I need go afk, when I am done, I am done and dont have to apologize for bein done and not helpin them get done =P.

Course sometimes you feel the need to be around people, or need people to at least start your creator for ya.

Oh ya and as to OP best group 1 tank, 1 cleric, 1 shaman/chanter 3 necros will pretty much own anyplace they wanna go. 6 necros would probably be good too but I am way to lazy to wanna have to be MT in that set up and I just know they would be like hey Larks you MT=P One of the two reasons I avoid Fire tables, groups always wanna make me do all the work, that and too many buttheads fighting over the good exp spot which means I get more grief then its worth in experience.
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#19 May 17 2006 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
21 posts
One of the most successful groups I've been in was, Paladin (tank), Ranger (off-tank/kiter/DPS), Bard (CC, mana regen, haste, etc), Shaman (me, Slower, assist heals, buffs), Necro (snare, DPS, can pull), Cleric (Heals, buffs, rezzes). Now these are all level 70 and well equipped (necro and myself were worst equipped but still not bad off) and we dominated the Arena Champion Badge quest with NO wipes. People knowing what they are doing has a huge impact on that though, but we have seen almost every group that tries the hardest wave fail at least once and we survived our first try. Just my experience.
#20 May 24 2006 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
8,619 posts
There is no such thing as a "perfect group", amount of searching for the perfect mix of classes will compensate for "thinking outside the box".

All pet groups, Ranger tanking, Bst slowers, Druid healers all would not feature in any perfect groups but they can and do work if you get the right people.

The skill of players can more than compensate for perceived shortfalls in classes.

The "Holy Trinity" of Tank/Healer/Slower can be bypassed if you know how, and elitest attitudes towards classes possition is the major shortfall in FFXI from what my friends who play tell me, thankfully it's not as bad in EQ.

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#21 Jun 19 2006 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
64 posts
My personal fav:

Warrior (Tank)
Shaman (Slows/Debuffs/Patch Heals)
Cleric (Main Heals)
Magician (DPS and CotHs)
Bard (Resists, Mezzes etc)
Shadow Knight (Pulls, Secondary Tank)
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#22 Jun 19 2006 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
To those that think they can tank without a "tank" in there groups, I have to disagree...ya need a tank with some ac and an "attention getter" (read hate producer) warriors do it with discs, and weapons procs, palys with stuns and weapons procs, and sk's (though I've never played one) do the same with their life sucking procs and spells and hate producing procs.....the advantage is....armor/mellee classes dont care if they get summoned, and absorb dmg better, which allows all other classes to nuke and heal away...and keeps the lesser (dont be offended, please) classes from getting summoned and killed and eventually wiping alot at higher levels....there is a reason why raids use these classes as tanks...thanks for reading/salute

Edited, Jun 19th 2006 at 5:08pm EDT by truebeliever
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#23 Jun 28 2006 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
12 posts
my normal group consists of me boxing a 70 clr and 70 necro and a friend that boxes a 70 ench and 70 bst...then we fill in last 2 spots with a war/knight and 1 other dps

ench=c6 for the group,slows,saliks(haste),crowd control and even a little dps
bst =buffs,slow,bst crack, paragon (for those long fights) and dps!...offtank also
clr =heals and buffs
necro= huge group help
-pulls if needed (bst normally pulls and paci's mobs with ench if required)
-mana regen from mind flay(wrack---my cleric never sits down and 80m+ usually
-FD and rezz in the cleric if a wipe
-twitchin cleric if running lom or twitching the guy that just died
-draggin corpses

and to the previous poster this bst usually does the tank job. only get a tank if we are doing a really tough mission or just happens to be one available, as a real tank is always preferable...mind you the average bst would not be a preferred tank hehe

one comment i read in this post from the bard that liked ench for cc and slow and a bst for preslow...(this is just a question and not an attack btw) why would you reslow mob with ench 70% slow when preslowed at 65% already from the bst? i say nuke and save the time/little bit of mana slow spell takes for the 5%...only time id ever reslow is with a shammy 75%...10% is small but does help a small small bit whereas i think 5% is not worthwhile, just my 2 cents.

one age old arguement is the shammy vs ench for a group...i prefer the ench cause they have a way better haste, mana regen, and CC ...dps is low though
shaman once they buff are ????? hmmm well they can spot heal and dot? lol..mind you some zones you have to have that spot healer, but id prefer a druid anyways

so ultimate grp to me is

sub in bard for druid if puller is required for the particular zone your in
#24 Jun 28 2006 at 3:02 PM Rating: Decent
8,619 posts
To those that think they can tank without a "tank" in there groups, I have to disagree, ya need a tank with some ac and an "attention getter"
Utter rubbish, i have seen a druid main tank in RSS and there was little or no loss of aggro at all.

Snares get aggro, Mezz gets aggro, Clerics get stun, almost every class gets aggro producing spells and if you have the Hp and mitagation enough that the Cleric/Druid can kep you upright with a measure of comfort then you can tank.

Think outside the box once in a while.
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#25 Jun 30 2006 at 7:41 AM Rating: Decent
317 posts
I have been grouping up recently with another officer in my guild who regularly boxxes a Warrior, Shaman, and a Necro, and I am on my ranger here.

In many of the regular zones from DoD and OoW, we can do just fine with me pulling mostly with the necro splitting harder pulls; warrior tanking; shaman slowing and healing;and me and necro doing dps.

If we get into trouble with repops or roamers (3+ mobs, we can kite 2 at once), shaman has an aa root that sticks well with most mobs so she can lock down a 3rd. We just root them all off from group til we're ready to kill em.

And if all else fails the necro can do a 93% rez.

This combo sems to work well for us. There is a good combination of buffs between the shammy and ranger; you have tank, healer, and slower; have dps; have a puller; and even have rezzes. And we always snatch up 2 guildees to bring along when they are available, not really mattering what classes they are, unless we are trying something where a cleric, tank or chanter is needed.

The key is versatility. Less toons doing more. Many, many good combinations of classes in EQ. Play what you like =-)

Edited, Jun 30th 2006 at 8:49am EDT by GreenShag
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