I won't be too wordy about this, but basically I have a minor situation that I'm not sure how I should handle. Some of the GoD raids we do have extremely small, class specific loot tables that are equal to -very- slightly superior to top end Time gear. This is resulting in massive amounts of rot, as we exhausted the number of people that could use the items extremely quickly, but because there are still good items in the raids, we probably won't stop doing them (and getting rot drops) anytime soon.
Now here's the question, is it -right- for me to give away or even sell these drops to other guilds? I can get in anyone to loot as long as they are kod'taz flagged (attainable, with some difficulty, by Vex/mid-PoP level characters). And I've already had quite a few Bloodlink Chainmails, Aegises of Blackscales and so on rot or be given away to friendly guilds. Probably about 15 or so items, and the number will become substatnially higher in coming weeks. But should I start giving them away to total strangers or selling them? That I'm not sure of.
editted for typos
Edited, Thu Mar 11 12:16:44 2004 by Calimyr
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- So I can twink entire guilds, but should I?
So I can twink entire guilds, but should I?Follow
I'd say it is fine. The question is would you feel worse to give the items up or to see them rot?
It is always good to help out friends because you never know when that friend might remember your name if the shoe is on his foot instead.
It is always good to help out friends because you never know when that friend might remember your name if the shoe is on his foot instead.
Surely this is one for the guild to decide, rather than us gimnps at Alla's?
Patrician wrote:
Surely this is one for the guild to decide, rather than us gimnps at Alla's?
Nah, I (well, we) rule with an iron fist, and it helps to hear unbiased opinions once in a while.
Fair enough. In my opinion, the option for least drama potential is to let it rot. Getting loot from the stuff you are capable of killing should be a guild membership perk. Full stop.
One possibility is to have limited guests on raids, and /random rot drops off. Don't give it away to people who didn't work for it.
One possibility is to have limited guests on raids, and /random rot drops off. Don't give it away to people who didn't work for it.
As long as the plat you get for selling the loot doesnt end up on ebay....
The question may be rephrased as "Will letting other guilds take the loot interfere with my guilds goals or the "integrity of the game" as I/guild see it? Is this the real problem?
My view: Who get helped? Who gets hurt?
If the guilds or people you let loot the gear are capable of killing the mobs that drop it, and it would otherwise go to rot then by all means give or sell it. Especially if your presence in the GoD zones lessen the others chances to kill the mobs. If they are not capable of doing the zone then my question again goes to why should they? Yes its a nice thing to do. Will doing it help them enjoy the game more? Lessen your enjoyment?
Let me know if you want a more detailed Gbaji like answer.
The question may be rephrased as "Will letting other guilds take the loot interfere with my guilds goals or the "integrity of the game" as I/guild see it? Is this the real problem?
My view: Who get helped? Who gets hurt?
If the guilds or people you let loot the gear are capable of killing the mobs that drop it, and it would otherwise go to rot then by all means give or sell it. Especially if your presence in the GoD zones lessen the others chances to kill the mobs. If they are not capable of doing the zone then my question again goes to why should they? Yes its a nice thing to do. Will doing it help them enjoy the game more? Lessen your enjoyment?
Let me know if you want a more detailed Gbaji like answer.
Calimyr
From what I understand your guild is anything but hurting for plat. Between that and the number of twinked jackasses and idiots floating around the game imo you should not sell these things. IGE/Yantis has a pretty good business selling plat online. If you sell the Bloodlink Chainmails to <random toon> for say 100k you will do nothing more than indirectly supporting IGE/Yantis activities. Also, the last thing any server needs it to see some guild out there plow through the planes with some nice gear and have the elemental planes turn into Bastion of Thunder v2.
As for giving them away to friends, I'll say the opposite. Go for it. Keep a small list of /friends and when some of them are around let them know about it. I say this because you really don't come across as a person with a bad judge of character or somebody that would have idiot friends. Giving friends a leg up strengthens (in the short run at least) friendship.
From what I understand your guild is anything but hurting for plat. Between that and the number of twinked jackasses and idiots floating around the game imo you should not sell these things. IGE/Yantis has a pretty good business selling plat online. If you sell the Bloodlink Chainmails to <random toon> for say 100k you will do nothing more than indirectly supporting IGE/Yantis activities. Also, the last thing any server needs it to see some guild out there plow through the planes with some nice gear and have the elemental planes turn into Bastion of Thunder v2.
As for giving them away to friends, I'll say the opposite. Go for it. Keep a small list of /friends and when some of them are around let them know about it. I say this because you really don't come across as a person with a bad judge of character or somebody that would have idiot friends. Giving friends a leg up strengthens (in the short run at least) friendship.
No you should not Calimyr.
As with every one of these "ethical" or "moral" type questions, there is always the exception that can be argued to rationalise an unethical or immoral choice.
But if you believe in the spirit of what Everquest is about, you will see why it is wrong.
You know that the intention behind the spirit of the game is that it is all about gaining reward for you own personal effort. Developing your character to make him/her the best you can by taking risk and facing down challenge.
Everytime that principle is subverted the game is harmed, it is harmed for the person taking, or being given the shortcut and it is harmed for those that associate with that person.
I have witnessed this first hand in a large scale. I cannot be too detailed as I am talking about some good friends here, but there is a guild that made the decision to rebuild by recruiting new players. And to powerlevel and outfit these players to accelerate their progress.
The foundation members were a group of people in the 62 - 65 range and capable of severely twinking these new players. In my opinion this has been disasterous on many fronts.
This guild now has many members who are reaching high levels and have little understanding of the game. Many members are demanding in the extreme, expecting guild officers to run around after them, doing their CR's and generally hand holding as a matter of course.
I have seen some of these players in action in pick up groups and I am bewildered at the lack of tactical knowlege combined with an air of arogance that seems to go with this type of player.
Now, I know you are not proposing to twink newbies here. But I believe the principle applies in full. At the least I suggest that you are one of the icons of the game and any course of action you choose to take, will be viewed by the majority as a validation for them to follow suit.
As with every one of these "ethical" or "moral" type questions, there is always the exception that can be argued to rationalise an unethical or immoral choice.
But if you believe in the spirit of what Everquest is about, you will see why it is wrong.
You know that the intention behind the spirit of the game is that it is all about gaining reward for you own personal effort. Developing your character to make him/her the best you can by taking risk and facing down challenge.
Everytime that principle is subverted the game is harmed, it is harmed for the person taking, or being given the shortcut and it is harmed for those that associate with that person.
I have witnessed this first hand in a large scale. I cannot be too detailed as I am talking about some good friends here, but there is a guild that made the decision to rebuild by recruiting new players. And to powerlevel and outfit these players to accelerate their progress.
The foundation members were a group of people in the 62 - 65 range and capable of severely twinking these new players. In my opinion this has been disasterous on many fronts.
This guild now has many members who are reaching high levels and have little understanding of the game. Many members are demanding in the extreme, expecting guild officers to run around after them, doing their CR's and generally hand holding as a matter of course.
I have seen some of these players in action in pick up groups and I am bewildered at the lack of tactical knowlege combined with an air of arogance that seems to go with this type of player.
Now, I know you are not proposing to twink newbies here. But I believe the principle applies in full. At the least I suggest that you are one of the icons of the game and any course of action you choose to take, will be viewed by the majority as a validation for them to follow suit.
I doubt that anyone who's a candidate for these items is any less knowledgeable than anyone else about the mechanics of the game. We're not talking about level 4 twinks looting them. They're going to be members of guilds capable of getting them into KT, they're going to be level 60-65, they've proven a certain level of competence just getting there.
I say go ahead, if you're so inclined and if you want to build up some goodwill on the server. The people who remember you well are more likely to join you later when attrition thins your ranks - plus they'll be that much better equipped.
As to give away vs. sell, I'd be more inclined to give, assuming your guild is doing okay financially.
I say go ahead, if you're so inclined and if you want to build up some goodwill on the server. The people who remember you well are more likely to join you later when attrition thins your ranks - plus they'll be that much better equipped.
As to give away vs. sell, I'd be more inclined to give, assuming your guild is doing okay financially.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
As I said in my post Samira, its the principle at play that is important, not the specifics of competence or level.
hail Calimyr,
your knowledge of this game far surpasses mine. so does the knowledge of most of the posters.
I would like to say in my opinion that you get more out of game earning item than being handed it.
to a certain extent i even object to the bazaar.
your knowledge of this game far surpasses mine. so does the knowledge of most of the posters.
I would like to say in my opinion that you get more out of game earning item than being handed it.
to a certain extent i even object to the bazaar.
This is tough.
I'd say let it rot. From a guild point of view, letting some people benefit will eventually bring drama. I pretty much agree with Iluien here.
Personally, I value the items I've helped to obtain more than items I've been given. Yes I've been given items by higher level friends who no longer use them. I very much apreciate what they've done to advance my gear, but I would never expect anything more, and would hand it back in a heartbeat if asked...and my friends know this. Many peeps out there are all about the gear though(gasp) and would whine at you to twink them.
Hhmmm.. wonder if my friends gave me gear out of embarrassment. I was pretty gimp by comparison...
I'd say let it rot. From a guild point of view, letting some people benefit will eventually bring drama. I pretty much agree with Iluien here.
Personally, I value the items I've helped to obtain more than items I've been given. Yes I've been given items by higher level friends who no longer use them. I very much apreciate what they've done to advance my gear, but I would never expect anything more, and would hand it back in a heartbeat if asked...and my friends know this. Many peeps out there are all about the gear though(gasp) and would whine at you to twink them.
Hhmmm.. wonder if my friends gave me gear out of embarrassment. I was pretty gimp by comparison...
I belong to a family guild on E'ci .....My take on the rot/give/sell question is if there is a Toon in KT that can use the item that will rot, or would benefit tremendously from it and can safely get to where you are at why not give it to that Toon? You are never going to hurt or take anything away from the game by doing so. The integrity of EQ and the driving force behind it are 2 totally different things and they depend solely on the individuals perspective. The driving force behind the game is advancement...the integrity....hell there is no integrity anymore if people are willing to rot items just to be spared seeing the Elem PoP zones turn into BoT. Hey take a look at who's in the zone....measure the person as best as you can and decide whether or not to give him an item that you as a guild don't need. PERIOD. don't ask the meatheads in here if you'll dmg the value of EQ if you give something away..just my 2cp.FLAME AAWAY
Edited, Sat Mar 13 15:13:44 2004 by Verax
Edited, Sat Mar 13 15:13:44 2004 by Verax
Quote:
is it -right- for me to give away or even sell these drops to other guilds? I can get in anyone to loot as long as they are kod'taz flagged (attainable, with some difficulty, by Vex/mid-PoP level characters). And I've already had quite a few Bloodlink Chainmails, Aegises of Blackscales and so on rot or be given away to friendly guilds. Probably about 15 or so items, and the number will become substantially higher in coming weeks. But should I start giving them away to total strangers or selling them?
Do as you are pleased. give away, or sell, or let rot. although one can't have enough money
(as long as Guild is ok with it). http://www.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=1&mid=1077406432551308307&num=9
similar thread, as to how one may give away items (newbie lvl though). and, there is no difference between giving away low lvl items to newbies or high lvl items to high level players.
some here say, that giving is something like cheating. well, they might be jealous? cause it took them x hours to obtain it? or they probably don't even have it yet? so what? I' ve been given a good few items (e.g. shissars knights sword https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=10182 or a massive dragon claw shard https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4931 - only realised few hours after what i've been given...) but I still love playing the game, "peridot"
there is nothing like a general rule, if giving away should be allowed or not. and to the people, who say that it destroys the balance:
1 - Did you ever get a buff which was too high lvl for you? HP buffs, thistle shields, manan/HP regeneration , i.e. Temp at lvl 20, KEI at lvl 25...etc.?
2 - Did you ever request the help of someone, to help you in certain circumstances (get a high lvl necro to summon corpse, ask a high level cleric to reanimate your corpse with 90% exp. restore) while being at least 15 to 20 lvls below that person?
3 - did you ever give away an item to a newbie?
If you can answer one Q with yes, than wasn't that cheating too?
oh yes, all three questions above would be a yes for me...
PS: its funny, when I try to cast center on a lvl 2 player in GF and the spell won't take hold, hehe.
PPS: I even prefer to group with an experienced (!) twink, knowing he lasts longer in battle...
Still a noob. :-P
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