Pacify stealth nerfed??Follow

I'm an Enchanter(mostly) and LOVE LDoN. I'm normally a room ahead of my group pacifying the critters for easier pulls. I took a little time off from playing (month or two) and did some adventures recently and pacify really isn't near as good as it was. Either the duration is shorter than it was or it now randomly drops like root but without warning!

It's definately made me a little less effective, but my other spells compensate enough to have not gotten anyone killed.

Anyone know off-hand? Any info would be great, also if Wake of Tranquility(and even Pacification) was hit by this too would be good to know as well.

I do know SOMETHING has been changed with Pacify, just not 100% sure what it is. Someone said the duration was shortened in an attempt to make monks seem more needed. FD pulling isn't effective in LDoN though so that would bite the big one if that's the reason behind it.

Thanks in advance for any helpful info!

Pacify pulling has changed since they made it 42 secs duration but it still works it just takes more skill and in the case of a chanter pac and tank pulling a little more teamwork.

You no longer have the luxuary of pac the entire room and pulling them off one at a time, you now have to chose the mob you want and pac those in aggro range. It makes it kinda fun IMHO.

If you have a tank pulling after chanter pac he has to be Jonny on the ball and when you say 'Assist and pull %t' he needs to do it NOW not in 10 seconds. I like to have the tank stood with me when i Pac like this then he can see which i am pac'in and which i have left for him.

I also try to pull the same way in each room <Right to left/ front to back> so the tank can anticipate which to pull.

Pacify has not been nerfed. Pacify was broken for a very long time and SOE has just gotten around to fixing it. Pacify was only suppose to last 42 sec. Now SOE fixed it.

And yes it takes more skill to paci/pull then it has in the past.

Since we've moved to technique, I'll put in my 2cp's.. :)

Firstly, If there is an Enchanter in the group, and in LDoN I certainly recommend one, HE/SHE should be the one pacifying for a few reasons.....

1) Pacify resists check CHA and if the check is made the critter doesn't aggro! Enchanters should all have high CHA for the sake of all our control based spells so is also the best person to Pac for the sake of resists.

2) For time it's better that the Chanter pacify. In LDoN I'm usually a room ahead of the group checking out the mobs(looking for healers and/or critters we can avoid to save time if we're trying to get to a named fast, ect....). Doing this makes pulling faster which greatly adds to successes in Dungeons.

3) For mana it's best for everyone, especially the cleric! Haste is the most demanding spell we have. After that though we shouldn't be doing too much more than debuffing and slowing. I generally try to have a Shaman or even a BL to slow. BL is better than nothing and better than using my mana. :D Critters tend to go down fast enough that you can even live without slows, definately debuff the magic resist though. With a good chanter you should be getting single pulls at a fast rate and THAT right there usually makes the clerics life a lot easier. Especially if the MT is keeping aggro as they should.


Anyway, while Enchanter's pacify is the same as Clerics and Paladins, ours is better just due to the nature of our higher CHA lowering resists. I guess I just got spoiled in the past because it last so long and I assumed it was meant to. It's still very useful, but timing is more important an you really need to keep on your toes.

Rickea, Personally, even though we Enchanters go down faster than any other class that can Pacify I still recommend we do it. First, I always try to keep Rune 3 up. (I'm too cheap to spend on the dots and 1 cast usually covers me pretty well, 10 casts for the same cost of 1 Rune V and Rune V doesn't save you 10 times as much damage. Plus you don't make enough cash off adventures to cover using a lot of dots.) Second, I have my pet up and he usually stops a mob or two from hitting me, then I AoE mez, then use a better mez to keep them out of the fight. When the pet doesn't stop them we have our color series of spells to get them off us long enough to mez. In the end it's really VERY easy to get aggro'd mobs off you in LDoN, and as I said, I'm usually a room away from everyone else.

GoD note: I think as an Enchanter we should try to get the GoD group leader abilities. Mark being the most important. Enchanters are natural group leaders in most cases and should try to be as effective as possible and these new tools are a great help so I say take advantage of them!

Good hunting. :)

Charisma does have an effect on pacify-type spells. When you cast Pacify or one of its ilk, the game performs a normal resist check. This can fail rarely. When it does fail, the game performs a second check, this time against the caster's charisma. If that check passes, the mob doesn't aggro. If that check fails, the mob aggros.

Hence, having high charisma won't affect the resist rate on the spell, but it will lower the number of mobs that aggro due to resists.

Hmmm... That may be (first I've heard of it, but then I don't go reading the dev boards all the time), but I put it firmly in the arena of "mostly irrelevant info". I have used pacify to pull for literally hundreds of groups as main puller, against hundreds of mobs in each group, over and over, for hours at a time, for many many levels. I can literally count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've had pacify resisted, let alone have a mob agro as a result (in fact, I can only remember that happening once).

I've had pacify not work because the level of the mob is too high, but failures happen so incredibly rarely that worrying about a slight increase in chance of agro in the case that pacify should fail would seem to be about the most insignificant factor to consider.

I play a dwarven paladin. My charisma naturally is a 55. I don't wear +cha gear (cept for pieces that just happen to have it). I am called on to paci-pull virtually every time I group (which is pretty much always). I can assure you that whatever effect charisma has on your ability to pacify is so insignificant as to really not matter. It's certainly not significant enough to make using a caster to pull a more desirable method on its own.

Here's the deal: In the hour you spent completing that LDoN (insert your own time if you want), if you'd been sitting on your butt medding instead of running ahead pacifying rooms you aren't pulling from yet, a level 50 chanter could have gained 9000 mana (about the same as what you'd get from KEI during that same time period, effectively doubling your mana for the adventure). How much more could you do with that? Even if all you did was nuke, you'd be more effective to your group that way.

I'm not saying that pacifying the room ahead isn't a viable tactic. I'm not even saying that a chanter shouldn't pull in some situations. I am saying that doing it as a matter of course is probably a bad idea. And insisting on doing it purely because you've got a higher charisma is a *really* bad idea. When you've got a paladin sitting there who almost *can't* spend mana faster then he gets it back with KEI, doesn't it make send to have him spend his mana pacifying rooms? Doubly so if you're having him pull, since that decreases the time spent communicating pull info back and forth.

There are in fact only a very few situations in which a chanter should be pacifying rooms instead of a paladin. Um... And their difference in charisma isn't one of them. If you don't have a better reason then that, keep your chanter back and have your pally do the pacifying and pulling. Your group will be better off for it.

Personally, I find that the biggest limiting factor in how fast you complete LDoN missions is time spent pulling. When my groups have an Enchanter, we don't pacify at all, preferring to pull multiple mobs.

Single pulling is boring and slower. Safer maybe, but then I haven't lost a LDoN since the first week it came out.

Gbaji,

As you see, CHA is a factor, but I'm not going to argue about that, I already see your thoughts on it so I'll leave that alone and we'll agree to disagree on our personal thoughts of the matter. You are right that CHA has nothing to do with the initial check though, but there is indeed a second check. I've personally only gotten aggro from a resist once, I've seen it happen to others more often though.

On to point 2)
No, I don't just sit there casting Pacify over and over, generally I'm medding, and toss in the occasional MR debuff. I'd have to say that most of my mana goes to haste. I just had an adventure and I had to keep haste on 6 characters, 4 pets (Mine, BL, Shaman and mage) and 2 players (the BL and SK). Since the spell has to be cast about every 20 minutes and costs a fair amount of mana I have to say it's the most demanding spell I cast. I NEVER let myself get below 50% mana and am at my lowest after casting Hastes. I toss in the ocassional nuke when mana allows and I know we're down to maybe 1 mob left after the one we're killing and feel we're pretty safe from adds. Generally we're killing monsters at a fast enough pace that if I tossed just 1 nuke at each mob I'd be draining my mana too fast.

I'm usually highly complemented on my skills as an Enchanter and like to think I play the class very well. Usually I try not to pacify more than 2-3 mobs and not cast it on the mob being pulled, just the ones near it that might agrro just for the sake of preserving mana.


Point 3)
When I said <Anyway, while Enchanter's pacify is the same as Clerics and Paladins, ours is better just due to the nature of our higher CHA lowering resists.>

I said it's the same spell in the first part of the sentence, but my point is that of the three classes we use it best because of the nature of the Enchanter's higher CHA we get less resists on failures so get less agrro even when resist, that's all I'm saying.

Even with a Paladin in the group, it's more time efficient that he keep pulling instead of stopping to pacify. If the job is already done everything goes that much faster and in LDoN I find it rare to be down on time, but crap DOES happen and every time buffer you can get is a GOOD thing. Not all Paladins use Pacify to pull and much like any other class, not everyone plays their class well(that's really an entirely different thread though). I was with a Paladin that was so awesome at pulling I had little to do but enjoy the ride and add what DPS I could, but that is a VERY rare thing.

btw, I don't read develpoer boards either, I just happened to see that I wasn't getting aggro on resists and was just amazed and someone told me about the link of CHA and the lull/pacify spells.

As you noted, mobs that are too high show the message that they can't be effected and you don't even get to cast the spell or spend the mana. Learned that today when mobs were white to me at lvl 56 and I tried it. They I either mez'd them or had them be the first too pull. I was the lowest level on the Adventure.

As long as you're counting my mana, of that 9000 mana, figure out how much of it goes to haste! I really don't get a great deal of med time, but I'm lucky enough not to need it. At lvl 56 (though I've had the item since 55) I've been able to cast Tranquility(lvl 63 spell (+16 mana per tic, better than KEI in all ways except it doesn't last as long)) and I have FT 15 so even standing I'm getting back 31 mana per tic. I'm generally smart about how I spend my mana and mana is usually never a problem for me, haste are the only killer. Once I get my Epic, haste will be a mana-free click so I'll REALLY be able to do it all then.

Patrician,

Yes, single pulls are more boring, and I'll assume you group with either your guild-mates or people you know to be good, but I'm often stuck with people I don't know and I'd rather keep things safe and steady. There are too many idiots out there who can't play their characters right and I meet plenty of them. When you're with people who know what they're doing a lot more is possible, but I think we all know how that is. Honestly the action is usually non-stop my way too and I'm not wasting mana keeping things mez'd that never had to be aggro's in the first place. Each to their own styles, and long as you're having fun and winning, it's the end result that is more important than the means.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. :)

Single pulls are also less efficient was my argument. I multiple pull even with people I don't know when there is an Enchanter or Bard.

I'd rather do three adventures every 3 hours instead of two, regardless of if I know the people I am adventuring with. It only takes the first multiple pull to find out if the Enchanter is up to their job