Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Ldon lootingFollow

#1 Feb 18 2004 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
Ok I have a few questions about ldon as I haven't done many but am now getting very much into them. First off I did a couple when they came out and got good xp and decent pp. The last couple I ended up with only 27pp and 86pp as my split and as a 57 pally that will barely pay for my food. Get kei and temperance or virtue and you lose money for not very good loot, hardly any xp but in my opinion its worth it to me because they are actually fun. Also some of the items that cost a ton of points are very nice , haste , flowing thought, royal attendant armor , etc. Ok first off I heard alot of ldon has been nerfed for xp but what about loot and augs. I used to get about 2 augs dropping a dungeon when it came out now if I get 2 in 10 dungeons its a lot, although resist poison seems to drop like crazy. Second what loot system do people use. My system is of course need before greed but when I see the needy auctioning the item in nexus 10 minutes after ldon I think I was just as needy as they were. The system I came up with is if you claim need before greed then you give the item you are currently wearing to the group to roll on, seems fair only problem is if they have no drop items. Seems to me at 57 you shouldn't be getting much of an upgrade in ldon but it can happen. Well the last two times I have shared my system I get the person claiming need before greed all pissed off. To me you get a nice drop then you get the pp for selling the old item seems kind of crappy to me or you sell the item that dropped because you want the pp more than a small upgrade. As far as augs go those are more common sense and not as big a deal. Am I getting in with shady customers and getting ripped in loot split and has anyone come up with a better loot system than that one because mine seems to rub people the wrong way. Also when rolling on augs have a little love for the pally that is pulling and main tanking and try to let them finish the fight before you all start rolling like lunatics thanks, that to me is almost as rude as looting while people are still fighting.
#2 Feb 18 2004 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
*
54 posts
I'm level 52 wizard on Povar.
On average I probably see 1 augmentation per ldon.
The splits I'm seeing are in the 60-80PP range. If people are willing to stay until we get kicked out of the dungeon of course the split is going to be more.
My expenses are in the 30PP range per ldon (15PP for C3, 10-20PP for the dot(s) I give the cleric to temperance me. Usually I give the cleric 2 dots since I know others are not giving the cleric anything.) I usually ask that all runes we find go to me.
We always do NBG and NBG is just defined as you can only roll if you *could* use it. I don't want to get into whether or not you actually will use it. I'm not a mind reader. That's a fair enough way and it means if it is something you would use you at least don't have to roll against people that couldn't possibly use it. Personally I'm new to this game and I have 6 alts that have zero, zip, nada so I need everything. I still only roll on the WIZ stuff. People that sell stuff in bazaar are only doing it to get money to get something else they need. That's need too.
#3 Feb 18 2004 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
**
329 posts
LOL @ rolling/looting during a fight...I hate that!

All the groups I have been in have been NBG. If its a strength aug and a Druid rolls for it, I call BS. Likewise with a warrior rolling on a Wis aug, etc. People have been generally good. On one, everyone passed but me and a rogue. I rolled high, but since I had already gotten an aug in that dungeon, I deferred to him. I try to play with people I know, so I don't worry about the ML splits. They've been pretty good for long adventures (50 range) but nothing to write home about. Best was 89, worst was 30.

I would probably balk at the "roll what you're wearing" proposition as well. If you bought/looted the item you're wearing, it should be yours to do with as you will even if you can use a better/different roll item found in LDoN.
#4 Feb 18 2004 at 8:34 PM Rating: Excellent
Encyclopedia
******
35,568 posts
I've got to second the "roll what you're wearing" is crap idea. That will work about .0001% of the time, and make sense about never.

Sure. If everyone's low level and running around in patchwork, then giving up that cheapo item to get an upgrade makes sense I guess (but really, how valuable is the patchwork to anyone else?). As you get higher level and the loot gets more diverse, the idea of giving up an item to get an upgrade is just silly. You worked hard for the gear you have (in one way or another). In some cases, the gear I'd be giving up might have taken me more time to earn then the gear I'm getting. That's silly.

Also. Once you get past the "I'm just getting an armor piece with more AC" level of gear, you'll find that most gear pieces are "side grades". Maybe I want that drop because it's got nice resists on it? Maybe it's got some stats that I might want for tradeskilling? Maybe it's got an effect on it that I'll want/need some of the time, but the piece I'm wearing will still be needed as well?

This is doubly silly in LDoN, where most of what drops in those dungeons that's worth looting (as opposed to just vendoring), is augmentations and "rare" loot. How exactly do I give you the aug I have to get the new aug? How will I ever gain augments if I always have to give one up to get one? As to the rares, maybe that piece of gear isn't as good as what I've got, but it's got 3 times as many aug slots (and slots that my armor doesn't have). That makes it potentially more valuable, but not actually as valuable.


There are just far too many variables in gear to do that. This is not a guild group (presumably). I have no obligation towards improving your gear. The "give up what you replaced" idea is fundamentally geared towards ensuring that folks that have really crappy gear get more upgrades (since no one else would be willing to use the system). If this was a guild group, I'd certainly look at how significant an upgrade an item was when determining who should get it. Also, it's not uncommon at all for us to have folks hand down their previous raid gear for the upgrade (but it's never a requirement, more of a consideration. If someone says: "Hey. Award me that cloak of flames, and I'll toss my RBG into the pot for someone else", that's usually a good deal for everyone involved. For a guild, that is. Where the overall strength of the whole is important. On a pickup group in LDoN? That's just not an issue.


I tend towards "class appropirateness" when awarding augs, as well as "rare" loot in LDoN. Everything else gets vendored (unless someone really wants something cheap in which case they can have it as far as I'm concerned). Melee stat augs go to melee characters. int/wis augs go to the appropriate caster classes. Cha augs go to whoever wants them for tradeskilling (or chanters/bards if they wish). Resist augs go to anyone who wants them. Most of the stuff in LDoN is pretty obvious, honestly. However, I always think that first consideration should be the class that's present. Rolling for an item because you have an alt that can use it is bogus. Umm... Take that alt on an adventure and get the item. For the most part though, I haven't found that item drops in LDoN have been that big of an issue.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#5 Feb 18 2004 at 11:02 PM Rating: Good
***
1,087 posts
Sorry but after a few beers, big chuck of text without line breaks gives me headach. Here is what I've gotten out of your text from looking at it for, oh, maybe 10 seconds.

As for loot rule, forget about NBG. NBG is for friends only, or guild only groups. NBG in a random pick up group is the MOST UNFAIR loot rule. EVERYTHING TRADABLE SHOULD BE ROLLED /ran 100. I have a ton of alts ranging from level 40 - 64. I twink them as I get loot but I never go to bazaar and buy them full suit of armor + uber weapons. So, some of my alts are naked in some armor slots or having cloth armor (my magician, level 56 is still wearing 1 or 2 pieces of cloth armor). If I were to link those cloth armor to claim NBG, I would be cheating everyone in my group. I am being honest to my group doesn't mean everyone is honest to groups, thus I never do NBG in pick up groups.

And as for you are spending all your money on buying buffs, why? Why can't you just accept whatever buff your group can provide? Why spend 50pp to buy temp or vritue or focus or kei whatever before you join every group? Has it become a requirment to lfg that one should never leave PoK without KFV (kei focus virtue)? Do you really need 5k hp to tank ldon mobs that hit for 150, and make cleric feel useless that he/she only need to CH you every other 5 mobs?

And lastly, LDoN exp is pretty bad after level 45 or so. Go to PoP, Seb, Velk etc etc if you are looking for exp.

Sorry if I sound gumpy, few beers go in and all emotions come out, haa


Edited, Wed Feb 18 23:08:32 2004 by Assailant

Edited, Wed Feb 18 23:12:37 2004 by Assailant
#6 Feb 19 2004 at 5:03 AM Rating: Decent
*
136 posts


50p for temp?!?! I'm lucky peeps cover the dot...most try to hand me 5p

Roll what you're wearing? I'd get pissed at that one too. I perfectly agree with NBG on my toons that are under 50...but after that...whether I can use the item or not I'm rolling... Even my cleric could farm acrylia at 50 solo to earn her plat and gear... but there's no way you get to have what I spent 8k on so I can win a shot to roll at an item I helped drop.

Edited, Thu Feb 19 05:14:18 2004 by plick
#7 Feb 19 2004 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
**
320 posts
I haven't done any LDoN in the last few weeks, so haven't experienced the nerf myself... but a couple of weeks back a LDoN adventure with decent loot (because e.g. Deepest Guk doesn't really drop any vendor stuff worth noting) at level 60-65 gave a split of 200-300 pp average.

I guess SoE found this a bit too much and took the bat out of the cupboard again.
#8 Feb 19 2004 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
****
8,619 posts
Seems that Punctuation and Paragraphs where skiped in Grumpass's education but i trawled through anyway and i have a few comments.

1. Loot of the vendor trash varity has indeed been nerfed and Pp from LDoN is not what it was 2 months ago, why they had to do this is beyond me.
i mean are they trying to force people to buy pp or something <Prices in bazaar goes up and money from loot goes down......> I am in the lucky position of having all my Main 3 toons pretty much kitted out to the point that upgrades are No Drop now so LDoN money is for farming vendors for tradeskill bits or sundries like PDot's etc.

2. Buying Kei /Virt etc , i have to be honest i have never paid for either ever, not once in 3 tears of playing. If my group cannot provide then i will do without.
I did have a cleric insist that i re-emburse him for the temp he casted on me once though but i just pointed out that the only thing standing between him and an angry mob was me so if he wanted and easy life he could temp me, if not then i hope his healing can cope with my <comparitive> lack of hit points as he would more than likely drop second.

3. Drops in LDoN pre 60+ are not so great that i am going to lose sleep over a Wizzy rolling on that not so great 'Gaurd II' wand for instance, they helped drop the mob they earned the right to roll.
I do find that most people will not roll one everything but if something really nice drops expect a 1 in 6 chance of getting it.
Augs are slightly different since they are no drop and common sence should prevail and generally does.

4. /agree with holding on rolls but please loot away during fights if you are ML, i tend to be pulling so fast that thier is no gap between mobs unless there is a roll.

all in all good points raised Grumpass just please please please work on your punctuation thanks.
#9 Feb 19 2004 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
**
500 posts
I often end up looting in LDON (prefer not to since it interferes with med for chanter or clc) and I would have to agree that some items do not sell for what they did to vendors - I have not seen any drop however in coins. Jewels seems to vary greatly in my experience, as well as loot depending on mobs (shadows and bats in MM for example often drop nothing or little compared to vamps who almost always drop more coins or items) - also if group leaves right after success instead of staying for extra 30 mins, it lowers loot. On the other hand, I can only think of one split below 30 plat plus gold for my 45 chanter's group (bats & shadows one where group left right after success) and most are 40s to maybe 50. Augs drops seem lower overall, but I have had 4 drop one adv and next one only 1. Finally on looting, NBG on augs and no drops only makes sense, but I dont have a problem with greed rolls on named drops unless item is a major upgrade for one of the group. I have been in several groups where no one could use a drop (blood encrusted flute or garland of gore for example) or recently where no one wanted drop - got 2 fallen frog scepters in a row on Sunday from nameds in same dungeon and we rolled for fun to make the low roller take it LOL. Best bet is to ask about NBG when forming group rather than when drop happens. Oh forgot about tanks pulling a new mob while everyone else is rolling, this can be annoying but tanks often miss posts on augs and just tell them to stop pulling after the current one while people who are interested roll.
#10 Feb 19 2004 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
if youre level 57, go to a camp and use the lfg tool. build your group out of players 4 to 5 levels higher than you. this will make the level of the dungeon higher and give you better xp for each dungeon. since it should only take your *** 30 min to an hour to finish one, kei should last for at least 2 dungeons and you should have a cleric to temp you anyway. as far as 86 pp goes, thats for one hour of xp, do two or three and it adds up, especially if you use it wisely like not spending 60pp for a fookin kei.
#11 Feb 19 2004 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
The looter should cover the cost of a clerics peris before he splits the p with the group. Why should a cleric constantly eat the cost? By not cover peris before split, the pp equal 100p for five members and 88 p for the cleric who just casted HoV. If you are a cleric that does not have group temperance then you just spent 66p on peris. After a split, the cleric ends up in the whole. It is the group and especially the MLooters responsibilty to cover peris before split. I have seen way to many greedy folks in this game.

Its amazing to hear chars say wow i just donated 20p for C3. Yet you donate 20 (20 being high end - most donate a peri if you are lucky) for your temp/vir and the cleric ends up with 8.5p profit while the chantie ends up with 20p profit. Is it no wonder that for every one cleric you find casting in Pok you can find 3 chanters.

Honestly the master looter should split the tradeskills items he looted from LDoN. Those in itself sell an avg of 50-100p each. I am a tradeskiller and it does bother me that the looter walks away with at least 300 plus worth of tradeskill items on a 45 min adventure.

#12 Feb 19 2004 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
The looter should cover the cost of a clerics peris before he splits the p with the group.

I have to call BS here. Everyone pays to play. It costs me between 60 and 80 pp everytime I get KEI and Virtue. If I want to bug a shammy for Fo7th, maybe a little more. I haven't made a profit from doing an LDoN adventure in weeks. Do I pay too much for my buffs? Says you, maybe. But I never have trouble finding them.

Why should I care if a cleric has to spend some cash on buffing people? If the cleric didn't buff, he or she would have less of a chance of success. Just as I am spending plat to increase my chances, so are they. On the other hand, dots do usually default to the cleric. I have been highly annoyed before by a cleric who didn't even have Temperence yet suggesting that they should get the dot because they could bank it for when they got the spell.
Quote:
Honestly the master looter should split the tradeskills items he looted from LDoN.

This is simply impracticle. Unless you are the only one interested in TS items, a roll would have to take place. Rolling on every TS componant that drops would take way too much time, even if you waited till the end of the adventure. It sounds like you don't trust your ML when you suggest that they would be keeping all of the TS items, rather than sell them. As a rule, the ML should be selling everything that hasn't been assigned to someone. If you don't trust that this is happening, don't group with the ML.
#13 Feb 19 2004 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
****
8,619 posts
Quote:
The looter should cover the cost of a clerics peris before he splits the p with the group. Why should a cleric constantly eat the cost? By not cover peris before split, the pp equal 100p for five members and 88 p for the cleric who just casted HoV. If you are a cleric that does not have group temperance then you just spent 66p on peris. After a split, the cleric ends up in the whole. It is the group and especially the MLooters


My heart fooking bleeds for you, damn you'll have to go sit in PoK for an hour and make some more pp, a option i as a Pally do not have.

get a grip and eat the cost of a Pdot, if you don't want to buff me no problems i'll just take you off my 'people to group with' list and move on to one of the Gazillion other clerics that unlike you don't have a chip on thier shoulder.
#14 Feb 19 2004 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
*
170 posts
Whenever I am ML and I loot the Sand Verbena or Gargoyle Granite or whatever, I say to my group when selling, "This item sells in the bazaar for 40-50 pp, but the vendor will only buy it for 2 gold [or however much it really is, but very small]. Who wants to roll on it?" In general there are only 2 or 3 items that are worth this much in the bazaar per adventure, if any. Sometimes people want to roll on them, sometimes one person who is a tradeskiller offers to put 30 pp (or so) into the group loot for each item, most often the group doesn't want to bother so they tell me to keep them. I certainly don't complain, since I was completely honest about it.

Also, in general we don't roll on gems or anything like that, although some groups do. Once our chanter was also doing Jewelcraft, so I sold the Blue Diamond that dropped to her at the same price the vendor would have bought it at, and then added that to the group loot and did the split like normal. The only time I've had a complaint about my MLing was a recent Tak where the drops were horrible, and the split was only 60 pp or so. The warrior made a comment but everyone else came to my defense, and he let it drop.

Game on,

The Oneiromancer
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 181 All times are in CST
Evilel, Anonymous Guests (180)