Not sure if the question has been addressed but---
How is it that a 200+ skill with a 30 DMG wpn or whatever your wpn is doesn't do the minimum stated??? I can understand missing. But an arrow with +5 should always do 5. I am just confused.
Thoughts? Oh, My furnace works so please keep the flames low.LOL
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Think of it as the max damage you can do with a 30 dmg weapon is 0 to 200 (no idea what the actually number is, guessing about 200 at your level).
Each swing of that weapon, a magical dice rolls on the EQ server somewhere in san diego generates a number between 0 and 200. The resulting number + damage bouns (if weapon is in main hand) = damage you do.
This is just my guess, the server game engine may or may not work like this but that's the idea. Well, and there are a number of other factors like target's AC, your attk rating etc all affect how many pts of dmg you do.
As for archery dmg, there is no damage bouns for bow/arrow so there is no min damage you do on each hit.
Edited, Wed Feb 18 07:24:24 2004 by Assailant
Each swing of that weapon, a magical dice rolls on the EQ server somewhere in san diego generates a number between 0 and 200. The resulting number + damage bouns (if weapon is in main hand) = damage you do.
This is just my guess, the server game engine may or may not work like this but that's the idea. Well, and there are a number of other factors like target's AC, your attk rating etc all affect how many pts of dmg you do.
As for archery dmg, there is no damage bouns for bow/arrow so there is no min damage you do on each hit.
Edited, Wed Feb 18 07:24:24 2004 by Assailant
you are forgetting about mitigation.
yes min. damage on a weapon with +5 to dmg bonus will do a min of 5 poitns, but if your target is mitigating 10 points, then you did no damage to the mob.
yes min. damage on a weapon with +5 to dmg bonus will do a min of 5 poitns, but if your target is mitigating 10 points, then you did no damage to the mob.
Keep AC in mind too. AC absorbs damage and many hits appear as misses it all the damage done is absorbed. You might make 4 hits say for 200, 15, 79 and 21. If the creature's AC absorbs 20 points of damage you will end up reading damage of 180, miss, 74, 1.
Keeping that in mind you realize how you get the numbers you end up with.
Keeping that in mind you realize how you get the numbers you end up with.
There's no damage bonus for bows and arrows? I'm not saying you're wrong or flaming, just asking for clarification, b/c I always assumed that since my bow and arrows "say" +10 damage bonus (or whatever at the current level) that they did have it. I know it does the same thing for weapons in secondary and you don't get the bonus on them though. I guess I just assumed you got them on the bows and arrows b/c I had never heard otherwise. If you're correct, thanks for the info and you learn something new eveyday. If any one has any information to the contrary, please reply.
Singdall wrote:
you are forgetting about mitigation.
yes min. damage on a weapon with +5 to dmg bonus will do a min of 5 poitns, but if your target is mitigating 10 points, then you did no damage to the mob.
yes min. damage on a weapon with +5 to dmg bonus will do a min of 5 poitns, but if your target is mitigating 10 points, then you did no damage to the mob.
I don't think mitigation works that way. My understanding is that combat works something like this:
First, your weapon skill + offense is compared against the opponents avoidance AC value. Some random value is applied, and a result is calculated. If it's negative or zero, you missed. If it's possitive, you hit (with a "better" hit based on how high the result is). That carried over number is then applied to the mitigation AC (so a better hit will have a better chance of doing more damage, everything else being equal). Another random number is generated and another result comes out. Again. If it's negative or zero, you did nothing (comes up as a miss). If positive, it's applied as a multiplier to your base damage, up to your max multiplier (determined by the whole ((str+skill)/100) equation). That then determines your damage.
Um... That's why avoidance AC is considered more valuable then mitigation AC. It's applied in the first calculation and carries through the second, effectively making avoidance AC worth twice the equivalent amount of mitigation AC (which matches up with parses).
Here's the part where I'm not too clear on, but I'll stumble through. Different types of bonus damage work differently. The bonus due to level (lvl-25/3 for 1h for example) is going to end up being a minimum damage. I've heard of people getting lower then that, but generally, you can expect to always get at least that much damage out of each hit. This is why fast weapons are often preferred against really high AC mobs. You'll pretty much always hit for minimum, so why not hit for minimum more often?
I don't remember which is which, but I know that some of the "magic, disease, fire, etc" type damages are applied to the base, not the bonus. So, for example, a fungus coated tarmak staff has a 30/45 rate with a +7 disease damage. That means that if the disease resist is failed by the target, the weapon effectively becomes a 37/45. It was not a 30 + 7 weapon. Thus, the +7 did not change the minimum damage component.
I *think* bane weapons work the same way (there's just no resist for it, if the mob is of the right type, they take the higher damage amount), but I'm not sure. Bane damage might be a bonus instead (which would mean it applies to minimum).
Again. I'm pretty hazy on that, but I think I remember that being how they worked. So your "+5" arrows or whatever don't actually add +5 to the minimum damage done. They just add a higher base damage (which the roll multiple is applied to). Thus, you can, with a really crappy roll, do 1 point of damage with it.
Edited, Wed Feb 18 21:44:57 2004 by gbaji
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
First of all you can not compare archery and melee damage, although no one knows for sure how achery works, one thing everyone who has analysed archery do agree upon is that it works differently and to some extent or other does not work as originally intended.
Secondly, if you really are interested in melee combat mechanics there is a great study over on the Steel Warrior board that delves into some extensive analysis over a long period of time, it was stickied last time I looked at it, so should be easy to find.
There is no "first hand" knowlege about the melee damage calculations but a lot can be surmised from the many logs and experiements and the clever use of some maths to try to re-produce the data that has been parsed.
The first thing to note when looking at this is that mob type and relative level make an enormous difference and if you are not aware of how significant this is you can mislead yourself very easily.
What I mean is that a mob that is considerably lower level than the melee, cannot defend itself and a mob that is significantly higher in level has impenaterable defense, clearly parsing and analysing these could a give very distorted picture.
So if you are whacking away at a significantly higher level mob with your 30 damage weapon, most of the time you will completely miss the mob (for a variety of reasons) and on the odd occasion where you actually land a blow, it will be severely mitigated, again for several reasons. So the chances are that you would never land a blow for 30 damage. But you should, on the occasion when you do manage a hit, hit for the main hand damage bonus.
Mob avoidance ability is made up of their defense skill, dodge skill, parry skill, block skill and a component of the AC number that everyone refers to as avoidance AC, (we presume). Different mobs have differing levels of these skills, obviously a mob with high defense, high dodge, parry and block is going to cause you to miss a lot.
If the mob also has high AC chances are you will both miss a lot and have a lot of low damage hits, because the other component of the AC number is a mitigation number. So the melee combat calculation goes through its series of checks to see if you have hit the mob, if you have it then does the calculation to see how much damage you have done (as Gbaji said) in this part of the calcualtion it is looking up your weapon skill level, your offense skill, your attack rating and weapon specs and checking the mob's mitigation AC, plus a random effect and produces the resulting damage number.
One place where you can get a feel for this is in Burning Woods, where you can parse fights with shaman, monk types and warriors and you do see a significant difference in the mob's avoidance and mitigation at the same mob level.
According to the work done by the guys over at Steel Warriors, it is most unlikely that hit values get mitigated to zero, therefor become a miss. All of the various ways of producing the algorithm suggest that any hit value less than one is rounded up to one. So all successful hits have a damage from 1 to ~.
Now, having said all of that, I wonder if the OP is talking about a 2hand weapon? Which is a very different kettle of fish.
Secondly, if you really are interested in melee combat mechanics there is a great study over on the Steel Warrior board that delves into some extensive analysis over a long period of time, it was stickied last time I looked at it, so should be easy to find.
There is no "first hand" knowlege about the melee damage calculations but a lot can be surmised from the many logs and experiements and the clever use of some maths to try to re-produce the data that has been parsed.
The first thing to note when looking at this is that mob type and relative level make an enormous difference and if you are not aware of how significant this is you can mislead yourself very easily.
What I mean is that a mob that is considerably lower level than the melee, cannot defend itself and a mob that is significantly higher in level has impenaterable defense, clearly parsing and analysing these could a give very distorted picture.
So if you are whacking away at a significantly higher level mob with your 30 damage weapon, most of the time you will completely miss the mob (for a variety of reasons) and on the odd occasion where you actually land a blow, it will be severely mitigated, again for several reasons. So the chances are that you would never land a blow for 30 damage. But you should, on the occasion when you do manage a hit, hit for the main hand damage bonus.
Mob avoidance ability is made up of their defense skill, dodge skill, parry skill, block skill and a component of the AC number that everyone refers to as avoidance AC, (we presume). Different mobs have differing levels of these skills, obviously a mob with high defense, high dodge, parry and block is going to cause you to miss a lot.
If the mob also has high AC chances are you will both miss a lot and have a lot of low damage hits, because the other component of the AC number is a mitigation number. So the melee combat calculation goes through its series of checks to see if you have hit the mob, if you have it then does the calculation to see how much damage you have done (as Gbaji said) in this part of the calcualtion it is looking up your weapon skill level, your offense skill, your attack rating and weapon specs and checking the mob's mitigation AC, plus a random effect and produces the resulting damage number.
One place where you can get a feel for this is in Burning Woods, where you can parse fights with shaman, monk types and warriors and you do see a significant difference in the mob's avoidance and mitigation at the same mob level.
According to the work done by the guys over at Steel Warriors, it is most unlikely that hit values get mitigated to zero, therefor become a miss. All of the various ways of producing the algorithm suggest that any hit value less than one is rounded up to one. So all successful hits have a damage from 1 to ~.
Now, having said all of that, I wonder if the OP is talking about a 2hand weapon? Which is a very different kettle of fish.
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