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Gates of Discord is looking disappointingFollow

#1 Feb 04 2004 at 4:00 AM Rating: Decent
The new zones are oriented towards time and elemental equipped guilds. Nothing here for the casual gamers or family guilds.

The berserker class has been totally screwed up. The really neat rage ability has been replaced by a glorified kick like maneuver called frenzy. The throwing axes do minimal damage. You are left with a chain wearing, non taunting warrior, with a few minor buffs. I was looking forward to running a berseker, but that interest is being leached away.
#2 Feb 04 2004 at 4:17 AM Rating: Decent
Just look at the graphics and art !!!!

sucks ...looks like something put togheter in a very short time ..thats one of the reasons I'm not going to expand to GOD.

new class , ***K that fix the current MAIN TANKS!!!

This is really crap !! Expantion sucks , probably the items will not suck but the overall expantions is crap crap crap ..

I prefer to see old world and kunark zones revised with new exp mods and some mini bosses kind of stuff for players 20 to 55
than a new class and new uper zone. And to see more lore and no drop items like the ones you get from LDON. Is sad to see that some players are new to game and only places to go is either PC and HHK to get some nice exp and since they are just 2 camps on PC and goblins and nobles for like 20+ people it gets very hard to get into a teams..and not all class are made to solo ...

warriors rogues and wizzards need new revision also ...They have to much to add in current world!!!!


#3 Feb 04 2004 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
Just what, pray tell, would you have them do to Rogues and Wizards? From what I have seen they do quite well at their jobs as it is. Warriors will never be what people want them to be. That's a given. With all the work they did, nothing's coming soon. Try complaining about something broken, apparantly, since day one. Ranger Lind of Sight for bow shots. If they fix that, I would spend twice the cash on this expansion.
#4 Feb 04 2004 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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I haven't been a part of the Beta, but from what I've seen on the SOE site, there just doesn't seem to be that much to be excited about. If its filled with good quests, or there is something else not mentioned I might give it a go.
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#5 Feb 04 2004 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
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This will be the first expansion I haven't bothered to buy on release day. I can't say I'll never buy it, but nothing about it excites me at all. Not interested in playing a Berzerker, I have enough pre-Gates AA to get for now, the new bard songs completely fail to impress, etc. Yeah, yeah.. six new zones, six new instanced zones.. blah blah. The zones will still be there if and when I decide to get the expansion. I'll wait until I hear that the zones are worth playing in first.

So far it really sounds like this expansion is geared for the high end raiding set. Which is completely fine with me because we all know they need more content. But it also means I have as much reason to buy it as a pure soloer has to buy LDoN.
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#6 Feb 04 2004 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
For once i would like to see wizzards spells less mana intensive casue thats seems to be a problem to most groups , they see they nuke once or 2 times and regaining that mana with no clarity FT items is slow and we all know that mob killing is fast , second I prfer to see some beneficial spells for wizards that help the group at early levels or all levels like some kind of group shield that gives some ac bonus not hp to all group memebers and last redude the amount time mana harvest spell can be cast and make it incremental so at level 65 that spell gives more mana when used or just reduce the times that can be used bout dont make it more than 20 % of full mana.

Rogues if they can some how get criticals on bacstab, and really can all rogue races hide and sneak since level one would be better, and get rid of pick poketing is really no use eccept for epic and makes teams uneasy to get them in teams over other classes that dont have PP,also along with warriors and other malee reduce the time they use their diciplines.

Cant think much I had a list in my desk ..but is a mess lol..


and yes fix line of sight for rangers also ..lol..most changes are needed pre level 50 post 50 with aa's is better AA really change the way you play. but under 50 ..thats a big room for improvement ..

Edited, Wed Feb 4 16:17:48 2004 by drinalsk
#7 Feb 04 2004 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
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heh sounds like your trying to create a druzzard :D

You would be surprised how much use pickpocket can have, especially when you get in a group with a lootwhore of a MT. It allows you to sit back and help compensate the casters at the end of the group session.
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#8 Feb 04 2004 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Without having been in beta, and just from what info we have, GoD seems disappointing to me as well. I'm 99% sure I'll be getting it for my 65 warrior, if the proc AA ends up being good (curse relying on the rng for agro). But it doesn't sound like it's going to be that good of a release. Here's how I see it:

It's an expansion for the 55+ crowd. That to me sounds like Velious 2.0. Velious is a great expansion in my mind, but as I understand it, it was disappointing on release. The dungeons are well thought out and look very nice, with tons of atmosphere. The non-raid content is pretty poor, but if you were in a high end raiding guild it presented lots of challenges and entertainment (3 raid worthy factioned zones, lots of important gear upgrades, very high end raid targets, an important keyed zone, and plenty of dragons to kill). Basicially if you were high end at the release, sounds like it was a playground o' fun. If you weren't, then you missed out on the fun.

GoD is sounding an awful lot like this. Sounds like the 50's crowd gets to play in the sandbox of trash mobs, while the real zones are for Elemental and Time strength guilds. Once these guilds tear through their half-dozen raid zones they'll still be crying for content, while guilds who aren't EP or better are forced to stand on the sidelines wishing they had more useable content in the expansion too.

Let's talk non-raid content a second. Right now, for 55+ folks, there really are only two options. One is PoP, king of XP. Other is LDoN, which is less xp but yields AP for upgrades. How does SoE encourage people moving to GoD then? If you make the xp better than PoP, there is zero reason to be in PoP then. If you make it less xp, there has to be a reason for people to take a hit in XP. Without a system like LDoN to reward people for taking the less xp route, the only other possible solution I can see is gear. Seeing what kind of gear pre-elemental PoP offers (ornate for example) and LDoN gear available (better than ornate plate armors and great augments for example) it would take a significant jump in gear, obtainable in single groups, for people to migrate to GoD. Honestly, I don't see either of these happening, which doesn't bode well for this expansion.

Then, there is the berserker class. Everything I've heard so far is bad, bad, bad. Bringing a new class into what is currently considered the most out-of-balance subset of classes (melee) is a terrible idea. Either the class is balanced the way melee should be right from the gate (causing a glaring difference between the melee classes) or it's broken right out of the gate. You can imagine which one it is.

I'm still reserving judgement on the new Leadership abilities, but to me this again seems like a pain. I can already imagine the "key" classes for groups (especially clerics) refusing groups unless they get to be the leader and earn points. I have a feeling it's going to cause many problems.

GoD seems a new LoY without handy tools (ie in-game maps) and a versitile new PC change (Frogs have tons of class choices, including the only ones who can be SHM or CLR). And since GoD is likely going to be the last EQ expansion before EQ2, maybe SoE's releasing a half-hearted effort in hopes of pushing more people to EQ2.
#9 Feb 04 2004 at 1:29 PM Rating: Excellent
Drin, the problems you mentioned are not really problems. They are constraints to a class. By your logic, they should make every thing insta-cast and manaless. Wizard nukes take a lot of mana. They also do a SH1TLOAD of damage. It's burst DPS. Faster mana regen on a wizzy, be it FT, Med, mana harvest, what ever, would over power the class as it would cease to be burst DPS, rather becoming sustained massive blow stuff up DPS.

Rogues are a little different. They are already huge sustained DPS machines. Do they need a crit backstab? Dunno. Am I gonna get a crit kick? As to pick pocketing, it is a nice tool sometimes. Personally I won't group with a rogue I don't know, and some I do, but that's because I have issues with people who think it's ok not to shell out a split of stuff they wouldn't get if I wasn't there to distract a mob.

LOS for Rangers effects all levels of play. Bow kiting from the young age is fubar. post 59 and AAs just make it more noticeable.

And by the way, I am not flaming you here at all, but please, for the love of god, sentences are your friend. More than one per paragraph would help me understand you a whole lot more. :)
#10 Feb 04 2004 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
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i pre-ordered..can't help it. i am sure i wil be disappointed for reasons everyone has covered already, but I want to have the new content at least available to me. I would like to see them fix issues as well, however...like the ranger LOS as is mentioned. Also I've noticed my mages' fireballs have the same issue...any change in elevation or ANYTHING between me and target and the fireball never hits..thats a ton of wasted mana.

the chat last night was not very helpful at all..all the questions people wanted answered were answered "no comment". good one sony.

they want people to be happy, don't release an expansion..fix whats broke. and add more service. I waited ALL FREAKING NIGHT and ALL DAY YESTERDAY for an answer to a petition when Vira consumed 2 sets of components for my mage focus gear when one piece was wrong (shovel instead of a shovel and griffawn feather instead of griffon feather). and not only did I not get an answer, but i never even saw a GM or guide come online.

they aren't making it any easier for people to decide to move to EQ2.
#11 Feb 04 2004 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
I was already leaning towards not bothering with GoD, and the above assessment has pretty much made that decision definite. As my highest lvl character is currently a 35 paladin, I don't see any real benefit to this expansion.

Note that this is more or less the same logic that led to my decision not to get PoP. I took one look at that expansion, and decided that there was not enough in it that would benefit my characters to justify spending the money.

I personally feel that, instead of continuing to release more crap that they'll have to spend the next year debugging, SOE should make a sincere effort to fix the existing problems with the game. Given the way EQ is currently being run, I have long since decided that there is absolutely no chance of me even looking at EQ2 when it comes out. I'm not certain I stay with EQ the way things are going (D&D Online sounds very appealing).

Edited, Wed Feb 4 18:50:11 2004 by Baratheon

Edited, Wed Feb 4 13:51:54 2004 by Baratheon
#12 Feb 04 2004 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
Is ok lord I'm not offended is hard to me to write in a language that is not my main language lol. But I try better next time. LOL.
Also there is the need of more GM's. But I'm sure that is also not happening. An ever since the lack of GM's on servers people have been more rude and just plain bad on camps and lots of KS is going on, or mob hogging, is bad. But I guess EQ2 will have lots of GM's lol.. so why more expantions?? Fix the problems you have then move on to introduce new stuff, warriors where crying to get new agro modifiers for years, untill recently. Then they introduce berzerkers with abilities that can serve better on warriors in my opinion. Why another tank?? ..we have to many, just fix them so they can do the tanking better and hold agro better. I feel bad when my sk gets agro from warrior and I'm not casting any agro spells just hitting the mob and bashing it. Also teams want me to be main tank over warriors ?? Hello ..sk's are not main tanks. Yes, we can hold agro we can do crap of damage but if there is a warrior in team why me?? I think people need to realize that warriors are the shield of the group all else is just the dps.





Edited, Wed Feb 4 14:47:59 2004 by drinalsk
#13 Feb 04 2004 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
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I looked over GoD, scoured the net to get info and have really thought this out. I am level 65 in a guild that has just begun raiding. From what I can see there is little to no incentive whatsoever for me to get this expansion. The new AA's suck, they are expensive and they are not half as good as the AA's we already have so until I max out my AA's then there will be no reason at all to get this expansion. From what I am reading many will not be getting this expansion so getting a instanced group in GoD might just be a big hassle.

I almost get the feeling that SoE is trying to kill EQ to get people to make the jump to EQ2. Depending one when EQ2 comes out this may very well backfire. I am tired of SoE and the way they work and I really am hoping that World of Warcraft comes out before EQ2. There is a very good chance I will be heading there. I doubt I am the only one.
#14 Feb 04 2004 at 4:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Rogues if they can some how get criticals on bacstab



Rogues can already get crits on their backstabs after acquiring the Combat Fury line of AA; just saying is all....
#15 Feb 04 2004 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
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Rogues and wizards need nothing done to them at all lol. Main tanks (warriors I assume?) just had some improvements go live, and more melee changes are on the way.

The current class balance is as good as it can be. Sorry but forgoing new content to work on old content would be stupid.
#16 Feb 04 2004 at 7:32 PM Rating: Good
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I almost get the feeling that SoE is trying to kill EQ to get people to make the jump to EQ2
I never really understood that line of thought. If people get fed up with EQ and leave thinking "Wow, SOE drove EQ into the ground and made it suck ***" what makes you think they'd be inclined to think "But I bet SOE made EQ2 just dandy!" They'd be more likely (I'd think) to try FFXI, Horizons, WoW (when it comes out), etc.
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#17 Feb 04 2004 at 9:12 PM Rating: Good
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paladiin wrote:

GoD is sounding an awful lot like this. Sounds like the 50's crowd gets to play in the sandbox of trash mobs, while the real zones are for Elemental and Time strength guilds. Once these guilds tear through their half-dozen raid zones they'll still be crying for content, while guilds who aren't EP or better are forced to stand on the sidelines wishing they had more useable content in the expansion too.


I don't really wanna cross the line with the NDA, so I'll be intentionally vague. If I was a Velious guild, on the first day of the expansion I'd organize several groups, go a couple zones deep, and plow nonstop for random drops from xp mobs until it was nerfed. Frankly, if I was a vex guild, I probably would too.

The weakness of high end expansions has generally been the lack of 'raid trash' that you farm ala drops, like Ornate in Sol ro or velious armor in ToV. I think a couple of the zones have quality enough where it is very reiminiscient of that, even if they aren't true raid zones.
#18 Feb 04 2004 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good
Thank's for the heads up.

Now, just to get all the buggers on line at the same time Smiley: smile
#19 Feb 04 2004 at 9:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree 100% Joph. The initial EQ2 population will be almost exclusively made up of people who play EQ right now, but want to see what the new game has to offer, and people who have heard EQ is a great game, but didn't want to get in on the tail end and have to catch up so to speak.

If SOE "drives EQ into the dirt", that will reduce both of those numbers. No one's going to see a crappy game as an incentive to buy the sequel.

As to the content level in GoD, I agree with ON to a point. I do feel there is suffient mid level content (by mid level, I'm talking about raid levels, not character levels). However, as pointed out by Paladin, they are not "equal" by any means. Not equal in reward, and certainly not equal in *type* of reward. LDoN actually kinda makes things worse IMO. By providing an entirely different sort of reward, they force players to effectively choose a path of advancement. Instead of increasing the options for a character, that actually decreases them. So. Will the mid-content reward with high exp? Or with high standard loot? Or will you get AP? Or something completely new?


The problem with the mid game is that there's typically only a very small number of "best" places to go for exp, and a very small number of "best" places to go for loot (and only one place to go for AP really). Old "top" content from an expansion or two ago often doesn't compete loot-wise with buyable and tradeskill makeable gear from the new expansion. That makes it almost pointless to bother with that content. You don't see this dynamic if you're in a top guild becuase you're always looking at the top content of the newest expansion. But when you're picking and choosing between mid content in the new expansion, semi-top content in the previous expansion, and top content from 2 or 3 expansions ago (assuming roughly equal difficulty), you'll find that the older stuff simply doesn't have the rewards to justfy them. If you think it's crowded because the top 5 or 6 guilds on a server are all competing for the handful of brand new top end content zones in a new expansion, realize that there's like 100 times as many people competing for a roughly equal number of zones worth of "new" mid level content that for those guilds give them the best reward for the difficulty.

That's the problem with that range in the game. SOE gives little to no thought to how to balance the new stuff they throw in with the old expansions. They either need to balance that on release, or go back at some point and revamp that old content to put things back in balance.

Oddly, they instead seem to do revamps in the wrong direction though. I realized this when I realized that NToV loot was roughly equivalent to the loot you can get one-grouping (easily I might add) named mobs in the revamped PoH and Veksar. So, why the hell should a guild raid NToV, when they could take that exact same raid force, split them into single groups, and scatter then around PoH and Veksar and get more loot over time with less risk and less cost? Answer: There's no reason at all...


That's what needs to be fixed IMO.
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#20 Feb 05 2004 at 2:50 AM Rating: Decent
Couldn't disagree more.

Lots of new AA to get for each class, new zones to play in, A new class if you want to try it out. My only major concern is their introduction of a caste system into the game with the leadership AA stuff. Hopefully they will wise up and change it though.

And no I am sorry to say if you really take a big picture objective view. All classes mellee, caster, hybrid are pretty much in balance. There is some minor and I mean very minor tweaking they can do to improve things.

For the most part people who say classes are not in balance either don't know how to properly play their class (or think they do but really don't) Don't know how their abilites and skills interact with the other classes, Or are just plain narrowminded in their playstyle. I.E. skilled player so long as they use Group_01 formula playing with Strategy_01. Get oustide of either of those and the don't know how to function or won't even try to go outside of those "norms".

The last is the most common I come accross. I don't know how many times I have been told you can't do that that way or I won't go here without a slower,cleric, insert class_01 here. When I know for a fact you can cause I have done it many times with other people. And any time SOE changes something that makes their playstyle more difficult they can't adapt or play the game so one dimensionally that whatever it is that got fixed/nerfed was their only enjoyment out of the game.

None of that is a lack of balance.


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#21 Feb 08 2004 at 2:21 AM Rating: Decent
I preordered it only because the "new" expansion traditionally had a very nice ZEM (zone experence modifier) that will usually get nerfed after about 6 weeks. So I'm gonna suck up the good exp and then go back to the POP zones when the ZEM drops.
I am a beta player and I agree nothing is too impressive on the new zones. if you are a strong solo class you might be able to exp on the fringe but expect to have a solid group or a raid force to explore deeper.
#22 Feb 08 2004 at 4:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Lots of new AA to get for each class, new zones to play in, A new class if you want to try it out.


Well the AA is irrelevant to me.

Because the ones for my classes are not an improvement worth exping for and there are lots of existing ones I don't have which seem much more useful.

The new zones are apparently for people equipped in a fashion I will never be.

I already have a warrior on the shelf - why do I want another melee that nobody wants once the novelty wears off?

A flat NO to this silly excuse to farm the playerbase.

Buying the expansion for all accounts is a significant cost and unlike earlier expansions which had generally useful features like maps, bank slots, LDoN adventures etc which everyone benefitted from, this has no such benefit that anyone has explained to me yet.
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#23 Feb 08 2004 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
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Rogues and wizards need nothing done to them at all lol. Main tanks (warriors I assume?) just had some improvements go live, and more melee changes are on the way.


Buying GoD opens up Triple Backstab. A tasty DPS increaser for the rogue crowd who do not dual wield Gold Runes knives, Ifirs or JTB's, Outcast :) I wouldn't mind a little push in my damage output.

Then again, buying a whole expansion for one character (bleh FV) just for a few AA's is a no-go for me. It seems like a cunning marketing trick from SoE, but maybe that's just me.

A few guildies have ordered GoD and I'll even admit I was tempted myself when I saw the AA's. The new zones don't interest me much yet so I'm going to keep a close eye on our boards and the Safehouse before I fork out 30$ plus VAT (bleh Europe).

With <1000 LDoN points I still have enough to see, anyway.
#24 Feb 09 2004 at 10:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think a lot of people really have the wrong idea about what starting content might be like, so I'm going to try to in a round about way give a better idea, though when the NDA is off tomorrow, I'll probably just come right out and say it.

Think of the elemental planes, how there is 1 grouppable nameds that spawn from regular mobs (xp nameds) with some good vex-quality type drops. Haste cloaks, ft3 belts, good weapons, and so on and so forth. Those are basically raid zones, but they have enough content there for xp groups to basically entertain themselves too, right? Now, what if those zones weren't flagged. Would they be worth it for velious level characters to go and 'raid' the xp mobs, and farm ft3 belts?

If the answer for you is 'yes', then you should probably strongly think about getting GoD and going there early. People saying GoD is a raid expansion are totally correct... but that doesn't mean that the only reason BoT exists is a raid zone to flag off of Agnarr, either.
#25 Feb 09 2004 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Interesting thread... almost deja vu ish.

I remember reading similar things when LDoN was released just a few months ago... things like the time limits ***** up the whole adventure, it's impossible to do without the "perfect" group, so some classes will be left in the cold.

Also, the conspiracy theorists who think that this is the end of EQ and that this is SOE's great plan to end EQ... that is just plain stupid... why would they spend money and resources upgrading the engine if that were the case?

I preordered GoD and I expect that I'll enjoy the new stuff in it, and I also expect that the vast majority of people will get it as well, in order to keep up with the Jones'

Just my 2 cents worth.
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