My level 52 Beastlord has a maxed Alteration skill of 235. All her other spell skills are hovering right around 165. Last night, through about 5 hours of occasionally pressing my spell casting hotbuttons (each one casts 1 spell of a particular spell school 5 times in a row), I got them from ~ 155 to the current ~ 165. I went through 2 KEIs, fortunately both of them were free. (I was doing work that I had taken home while doing this, not just sitting there hitting the button and doing nothing else.) This is starting to get a bit pointless. There are some nice spells I would like to cast at higher levels that aren't Alteration -- not many, but there are some -- so I definitely feel the need to keep these skills up. But I have heard that it gets even harder to pull off above 180, although this may have been changed in a patch.
So, my question is: does anyone know of, or have a link to, information regarding any spell skill cutoffs? For example, at a Divination of 150 I used to fizzle Invisibility so much that it took me an average of 25 tries to cast it, but at 165 it's reduced to maybe 5 on average. That's a pretty big drop in fizzle rate. Is there anyone out there who has a level 65 spell in a neglected school, that noticed at what skill level that spell started being able to be cast somewhat efficiently? It would be nice to know that I only need to, say, practice those skills up to around 180 and then be able to reasonably get the rest of the increases through normal usage. But that's probably wishful thinking.
Game on,
The Oneiromancer
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Skill required to cast high level spellsFollow
There's no hard and fast rule (not that I know of anyway). You might get better info posting this on a more caster specific board (Gaffe's maybe? Dunno).
All I've figured out from my experiences is that there is an inate difficulty for every spell in the game. It's based on the level that the "base" class gets the spell at (that should be the class that gets it at the lowest level). There may be some other adjustments as well, since I've certainly noticed that some spells just seem easier/harder to cast then others, even if they are the same type of spell and the same level.
As a general rule of thumb, you should be within about 20 points of the max (5*(level+1) skill that equates to the level of the spell. Unfortunately, that equation doesn't really work at higher levels, but it generally does at lower ones (up to 50, it should work about right. past that it gets dicey). A level 49 spell for example will work best when cast with at least a 230 skill.
Just max your skills out if you can. It's generally worth the time and effort to do so. It's always better to have a higher skill. The equations for casting spells seems to match your skill against the difficulty of the spell, then uses the remainder (if positive) to determine the quality of the result. A negative initial result is a failure (fizzle). Thus, a low skill means that not only will you fizzle alot, but any spells with a variable effect have an increased chance of a lower effect. So your invis spell will fizzle 10 times in a row and only last 30 seconds when they succeed. This effect is one of the big reasons why folks continue to use root spells insteads of the higher level ones in the line. Root is such a low level effect that when you get to a higher level (with a higher skill), you'll pretty much get a maximum effect out of your initial roll every time. Then it's just up to magic resist of the target to determine the final effect. Basically, even though a higher level root may have twice the possible duration, you'll actually average a longe root using the lower level spell.
Nukes work similarly. It's very noticable when moving to a new nuke. With an older nuke, I'll get a max hit virtually every single time. With the new one, I'll get more partial damage hits. Sometimes, it's actually more efficient to continue using an older nuke until you gain a couple levels worth of skill increases (again, this largely goes out the window post 50).
It's also of interest to know that specialization adds into the equation, affecting both fizzle chance and the effect result (more max effects in your specialization area). Um... That doesn't help you as a beastlord, but it's something for pure casters to chew on.
So... Um... Keep working up your skills. It will pay off in the long run. Note that it doesn't matter what level of spell you use to practice. Load up your lowest level spell of the type you want. I remember that beastlords have one type where their first spell is pretty high level and kinda mana intensive. I don't remember which type or what spell, but that's going to be a pain I would think. Unfortunately, there's not much you can do about it. You just need to keep working at it.
All I've figured out from my experiences is that there is an inate difficulty for every spell in the game. It's based on the level that the "base" class gets the spell at (that should be the class that gets it at the lowest level). There may be some other adjustments as well, since I've certainly noticed that some spells just seem easier/harder to cast then others, even if they are the same type of spell and the same level.
As a general rule of thumb, you should be within about 20 points of the max (5*(level+1) skill that equates to the level of the spell. Unfortunately, that equation doesn't really work at higher levels, but it generally does at lower ones (up to 50, it should work about right. past that it gets dicey). A level 49 spell for example will work best when cast with at least a 230 skill.
Just max your skills out if you can. It's generally worth the time and effort to do so. It's always better to have a higher skill. The equations for casting spells seems to match your skill against the difficulty of the spell, then uses the remainder (if positive) to determine the quality of the result. A negative initial result is a failure (fizzle). Thus, a low skill means that not only will you fizzle alot, but any spells with a variable effect have an increased chance of a lower effect. So your invis spell will fizzle 10 times in a row and only last 30 seconds when they succeed. This effect is one of the big reasons why folks continue to use root spells insteads of the higher level ones in the line. Root is such a low level effect that when you get to a higher level (with a higher skill), you'll pretty much get a maximum effect out of your initial roll every time. Then it's just up to magic resist of the target to determine the final effect. Basically, even though a higher level root may have twice the possible duration, you'll actually average a longe root using the lower level spell.
Nukes work similarly. It's very noticable when moving to a new nuke. With an older nuke, I'll get a max hit virtually every single time. With the new one, I'll get more partial damage hits. Sometimes, it's actually more efficient to continue using an older nuke until you gain a couple levels worth of skill increases (again, this largely goes out the window post 50).
It's also of interest to know that specialization adds into the equation, affecting both fizzle chance and the effect result (more max effects in your specialization area). Um... That doesn't help you as a beastlord, but it's something for pure casters to chew on.
So... Um... Keep working up your skills. It will pay off in the long run. Note that it doesn't matter what level of spell you use to practice. Load up your lowest level spell of the type you want. I remember that beastlords have one type where their first spell is pretty high level and kinda mana intensive. I don't remember which type or what spell, but that's going to be a pain I would think. Unfortunately, there's not much you can do about it. You just need to keep working at it.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Thanks for the information. I have my practice spells saved on a Spell Set, and I try to get the ones that are fastest casting as well as low mana. I try to always get a KEI before I practice, because I assume the increased stats also help with getting skill-ups, besides making sure I have basically no downtime. The thing is, for Beastlords, if you look at their spell list...it's practically 80% Alteration, and 5% each the other 4 schools. Sometimes it's really nice to be able to use the other schools, such as when I learned Invisibility (Divination) and Frenzy (Abjuration), but my Evocation and Conjuration are really only used when I'm soloing and letting my pet tank. And in general I don't solo whenever possible, although (again when I have KEI on) I'm impressed at how easy it is. I was keeping at least half of boat 3 in Dulak cleared by myself, which I thought was amazing. If Beastlords got a Snare-type spell before Hobble of Spirits they would be completely broken.
Anyway, thanks again. I'll try to keep practicing when I can, but I think my Beastlord needs to see some actual action tonight.
Game on,
The Oneiromancer
Anyway, thanks again. I'll try to keep practicing when I can, but I think my Beastlord needs to see some actual action tonight.
Game on,
The Oneiromancer
I have never had 25 fizzles on any spell. That would really worry me. 5 is very annoying. I wonder if there is some other problem.
To get your skill up you pick your lowest level spell, like True Noth for divination and cast and cast. You do not need to do practice on higher level spells. I have a practice spell set that is the LOWEST level spell of each type, so I can cast tons of them with no mana problems. I worked on mine at almost every level though, so I never had a really long way to go. But the lower spells will take you all the way to your limits.
To get your skill up you pick your lowest level spell, like True Noth for divination and cast and cast. You do not need to do practice on higher level spells. I have a practice spell set that is the LOWEST level spell of each type, so I can cast tons of them with no mana problems. I worked on mine at almost every level though, so I never had a really long way to go. But the lower spells will take you all the way to your limits.
Although it would be wonderful to cast true north to get your divination skill up, beastlords don't get it. I have personally managed to fizzle on invisibility over 70 times before casting it. I think Spirit Sight (level 19?) is the lowest div spell we get. Note that the 70 fizzles was when my div was ~ 50 or so.
Beastlords seem to fizzle on their spells MUCH more than other classes, and as a 59 beastlord all I can offer is tough through it. Once all of your skills hit ~ 180-195 you'll fizzle little enough to not worry about it too much while still occasionally getting an increase. My main suggestion for practicing your skills, however, would be to make sure you get an Intellectual Superiority along with your KEI (1/5 the duration, you'll need many, but only need a 20 enc for IS) to keep your fizzles to a minimum - skillups don't come with fizz's. Also, boring to do, but max your conjuration as early as possible. Malaria during combat is a good way to do this if you don't want to waste your time summoning drink as it seems to have a low fiz mod. Your evocation will rise naturally as you nuke things, and we have a very low fiz mod on our ice spear line as well. Frenzy will eventually see you through to 235 for abjuration. The only school we're truly hosed in is divination, and all I can say is keep with the KEI self-cast practice. Invis is an amazing asset, and well worth the effort of raising your skills. Until you hit 200+ though (especially in channeling), you're GOING to fizzle a lot.
Hmm, that was a ramble. Hope at least a bit of it helps.
Beastlords seem to fizzle on their spells MUCH more than other classes, and as a 59 beastlord all I can offer is tough through it. Once all of your skills hit ~ 180-195 you'll fizzle little enough to not worry about it too much while still occasionally getting an increase. My main suggestion for practicing your skills, however, would be to make sure you get an Intellectual Superiority along with your KEI (1/5 the duration, you'll need many, but only need a 20 enc for IS) to keep your fizzles to a minimum - skillups don't come with fizz's. Also, boring to do, but max your conjuration as early as possible. Malaria during combat is a good way to do this if you don't want to waste your time summoning drink as it seems to have a low fiz mod. Your evocation will rise naturally as you nuke things, and we have a very low fiz mod on our ice spear line as well. Frenzy will eventually see you through to 235 for abjuration. The only school we're truly hosed in is divination, and all I can say is keep with the KEI self-cast practice. Invis is an amazing asset, and well worth the effort of raising your skills. Until you hit 200+ though (especially in channeling), you're GOING to fizzle a lot.
Hmm, that was a ramble. Hope at least a bit of it helps.
Actually,flash of light is the lowest div spell we beastlords get.....
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