300pp an hour from a trade skill that can be macroed. i'll agree thats too much. and macroing needs to be stoped. but we should make a profit 5-10% at least. why should we spend 2-5 hrs trying to get skill up to 100-150 loosing money. if that is the case fom now on, then make all tradeskill levels buyable. through our GM like we can for the first few levels. we should be able to just buy them, why wait our time making items for the skill points and loosing the money.
i started playing this game in december. i left asheron's call after 4 yrs of playing because i'm sick of killing leveling, kill level. ect. i like trade skills, we shouldn't be forced into killing 95% of the time ,we have down time in this game, a lot of it if you can't heal. i like to do trade skills during that downtime, but not for a loss of money.
what i would like to see. items made with skill level
1-50 - -5% loss 1-10pp loss, all selling to merchant
50-100 - 5% profit 10-30pp / hr
100-150 - 7% 30-50pp / hr
150-200 - 10% 50-70pp / hr
200-250+ - 15% 70-100pp / hr
not sure if this would be too much. my max skill is 80 in alchemy. and 27 tailoring.
this should help 50-100 skill make 20-40pp and hour, that same as killing for lvls 10-40. but the time choosen to put into trade, selling to merchant and factiona and charisma needed, mabe only profit made in your home town only.
i think this would be a good idea. even if the profit needs to be lower, just prevent macroing.
i'm just glad i have a thief. stealing 20-30pp per hr not bad i guess, have to run a lot, or fight the guards.
i will admit when i first tried this game last may for 3 weeks. i hated it. i couldn't make any money 1-10 pp per hour. i died way to much. i quit. i came back knowing i'd still have the same problem. so i like many others who are sick of having no money. i bought 20k. it was worth it. i can play ,kill and not die too often. i agree that there are many who want to make RL cash this this game. that should be prevented. if sony themself was selling the money i would have paid them for it. but buying 20k was a bit much, but i made 6 characters. it helped.
sony should eigther fix the game from macros, and alow some profit to be made. or let us buy skill points. i can honestly say i probly wouln't be enjoying or still playing the game if i didn't buy the money. mabe sony should make newer newbee and other quest we could do for money. like mail delivery. and other items. repeatalbe after a 24hr timer. i look forword to every patch to see improvments. and to see how EQ2 will do this summer.
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- trade skill profit, vs buying platinum, or 4 ever killing?
trade skill profit, vs buying platinum, or 4 ever killing?Follow
The concept of tradeskilling in EQ was never about making profits by selling to merchants.
The idea behind tradeskills, is and always was, an alternative way for you to equip yourself. And, if you choose, to sell to others so that they could equip themselves as an alternative to hunting for equipment.
At various times this idea has been "somewhat broken", in that the tradeskill recipies/product fell way behind what was considered to be an aceptable standard of equipment.
Not so today, some of the best no drop items in the game are player crafted.
Any time you have been able to make something via tradeskill and sell it at a profit to a merchant has been a complete accident and if it remained in the game, it was due to the developers not knowing about it. As soon as they have ever become public knowlege they have been nerfed. The history of this goes back to the beginning of the game.
The developers concept of the EQ economy is that it is player based. The merchants are only there to try and smoothe things out a bit. If you want to make a profit from tradeskills, you have make stuff that other players want to buy from you.
Wanting to make a profit while learning your skill is totally contrary to the principle at work here.
It is your cost to learn your skill, when you are good enough at it you can then begin to make a reasonable profit selling to players who need/want your stuff.
This whole issue of making money is being blown way out of proportion.
Buying and selling, making PP and all that goes with it is a minor part of what EQ is about, a side track.
You do not need a lot of PP to advance. You need good playing skills and a good reputation, that is all.
The idea behind tradeskills, is and always was, an alternative way for you to equip yourself. And, if you choose, to sell to others so that they could equip themselves as an alternative to hunting for equipment.
At various times this idea has been "somewhat broken", in that the tradeskill recipies/product fell way behind what was considered to be an aceptable standard of equipment.
Not so today, some of the best no drop items in the game are player crafted.
Any time you have been able to make something via tradeskill and sell it at a profit to a merchant has been a complete accident and if it remained in the game, it was due to the developers not knowing about it. As soon as they have ever become public knowlege they have been nerfed. The history of this goes back to the beginning of the game.
The developers concept of the EQ economy is that it is player based. The merchants are only there to try and smoothe things out a bit. If you want to make a profit from tradeskills, you have make stuff that other players want to buy from you.
Wanting to make a profit while learning your skill is totally contrary to the principle at work here.
It is your cost to learn your skill, when you are good enough at it you can then begin to make a reasonable profit selling to players who need/want your stuff.
This whole issue of making money is being blown way out of proportion.
Buying and selling, making PP and all that goes with it is a minor part of what EQ is about, a side track.
You do not need a lot of PP to advance. You need good playing skills and a good reputation, that is all.
I still feel only pity for people who have to buy plat most of all Itcommander as he was not even able to raise enough plat himself with ONE twinked character to at least sustain the OTHER 5 himself.
But the point about tradeskilling is right. The system is just a big pile of C**P except maybe for fletching and bakery. You can at least with these produce items till 200+ that are NOT vendor-sold a usually and that you will probably use up urself.
Smithing is just has a complete unlogical system. For excample do you need 1 rusty 2H sword to make 2 metal rings
while you need 3 rusty short swords (at best!) to make 2 studsincluding one process in between (metal bits), which make studs from the point of tradeskilling as double as expensive as metal rings although the vendor-price is just opposite.
Tailoring is just way to SIMPLE. Roughly 20% of all available pelt/hide/skin/silk drops only are usable for a non-cultural/non-class-specific tailoring. If there'd be more versatility and more posiblities to make stat-enhancing armour below a skill of 50(like with shade silk or gnoll fur patch) it would at least be more satisfying to loose money overall while making one or another piece for yourself thats not better and cheaper vendor sold. Adding items to recipes that cant be sold (and therefore bought) at vendors would also make a difference.
And worst of all - regarding that Half-Elfes don't get any cultural tradeskill recipes it's at the moment near to pointless investing a single plat in any tradeskill for that race, which most players realize only after investing a lot of time and money.
But the point about tradeskilling is right. The system is just a big pile of C**P except maybe for fletching and bakery. You can at least with these produce items till 200+ that are NOT vendor-sold a usually and that you will probably use up urself.
Smithing is just has a complete unlogical system. For excample do you need 1 rusty 2H sword to make 2 metal rings
while you need 3 rusty short swords (at best!) to make 2 studsincluding one process in between (metal bits), which make studs from the point of tradeskilling as double as expensive as metal rings although the vendor-price is just opposite.
Tailoring is just way to SIMPLE. Roughly 20% of all available pelt/hide/skin/silk drops only are usable for a non-cultural/non-class-specific tailoring. If there'd be more versatility and more posiblities to make stat-enhancing armour below a skill of 50(like with shade silk or gnoll fur patch) it would at least be more satisfying to loose money overall while making one or another piece for yourself thats not better and cheaper vendor sold. Adding items to recipes that cant be sold (and therefore bought) at vendors would also make a difference.
And worst of all - regarding that Half-Elfes don't get any cultural tradeskill recipes it's at the moment near to pointless investing a single plat in any tradeskill for that race, which most players realize only after investing a lot of time and money.
Quote:
And worst of all - regarding that Half-Elfes don't get any cultural tradeskill recipes it's at the moment near to pointless investing a single plat in any tradeskill for that race, which most players realize only after investing a lot of time and money.
There are plenty of good reasos to do tradeskills other than "cultural" items. Coldain shawls to name but one. Probably the single greatest impetus to tradeskilling in the whole game.
As for tailoring being too simple I think I'll leave it to the tailors to disabuse you of that strange idea.
Wherever I go - there I am.
Cobra101 wrote:
[quote]
As for tailoring being too simple I think I'll leave it to the tailors to disabuse you of that strange idea.
As for tailoring being too simple I think I'll leave it to the tailors to disabuse you of that strange idea.
Simplicity regarding the recipes that force me to hunt for a very small selection of mobs with an even smaller selection of usable drops.
At skill levels around 50-100 what do you get average for tailoring? recipes with 2 components and up to one subrecipe. And to make things worse you are required to either learn smithing or brewing if you want to use more than 5 different recipes different recipes from 36 up.
while smithing does not force you to work up other skills(and waste further money)under 100, baking/brewing offers at least a lot of fun in their versatility of recipes and ingredients (not to mention the obvious advantages of jewelery for enchanters) tailoring is just a boring, time consuming, moneyeating skill.
I worked up to make backpacks now and sell them in the Bazaar for a small profit and I DO make shade silk armor and gnoll fur cloaks (4x4x4 gnoll fur patch - just to mention the versatility of tailoring *lol*) for fun when the prices drop too low to sell the components to give away to newbies.
But while it felt great to make the very first hand-made backpack myself to equip with now its just boring work.
Edited, Fri Jan 23 03:54:14 2004 by Leiany
I suppose I should have expected a different approach from you, Leiany. Most tradeskillers are ecstatically grateful for 2-item combines with no sub-combines. Trust you to be looking for complicated ones.
Personally I cannot bring myself to enjoy tradeskills. I regard them as a means to an end. The repetition of the same actions endlessly while watching for those "You have got better..." messages is not fun for me. The reason I am doing it is so that I can make something useful for which I currently lack the skill. And as a rogue that can be very annoying since WIS/INT tend not to figure highly in your makeup.
One piece of advice to any melee is to get your pottery to 128 so you can make Thurgadin gate potions (Vial of Velium Vapors). When your porter goes LD in some deep dungeon with no way out on foot then you will count those hours at the pottery wheel as time well spent.
Wherever I go - there I am.
A good advice as pottery already is next on my list of exiting things to learn (seriously - the first 20 points in skill always are cheap and funny) but its this means-to-an-end mechanics which make me dislike EQ'S approach to tradeskills.
And don't get me wrong there - I wouldn't like cured silk with 6 components and 2 subcomponents to result in the same as now.
But I would like to have more subcomponents where the ingredients make more difference than just size.
why not have simple subcombines like that:
snake scales (2) = snake scale strip (trivial 22)
snake scale strip (2) + medium quality wolf skin = small snake scale hide (trivial 32)
mask pattern + small snake scale hide + snake fangs (4) = small snake mask (trivial 48) AC: 4, save vs poison +1
Personally I would think more below-200-but-still-usefull-and-not-boring-recipes would make tailoring more popular but maybe I see it just from my personal "24th level and roleplaying freak" view and except from a few dreamers like myself everybody is happy with working up just for the grandmaster.
And don't get me wrong there - I wouldn't like cured silk with 6 components and 2 subcomponents to result in the same as now.
But I would like to have more subcomponents where the ingredients make more difference than just size.
why not have simple subcombines like that:
snake scales (2) = snake scale strip (trivial 22)
snake scale strip (2) + medium quality wolf skin = small snake scale hide (trivial 32)
mask pattern + small snake scale hide + snake fangs (4) = small snake mask (trivial 48) AC: 4, save vs poison +1
Personally I would think more below-200-but-still-usefull-and-not-boring-recipes would make tailoring more popular but maybe I see it just from my personal "24th level and roleplaying freak" view and except from a few dreamers like myself everybody is happy with working up just for the grandmaster.
Perhaps I have a more pragmatic view to Tradeskilling. There are a number of high-end items that will require a range of tradeskills, and at some stage I'm likely to want these, so as I toddle along through Norrath I'll occasionally stop off at an oven, forge, loom etc.
The fact that I can equip my lower alts with decent bows and arrows and the odd forged item is IMHO just a bonus.
Another reason is that while I'm not a 'thee and thou' Role Player, I do like having a toon whose skills are in keeping with his level and his time in Norrath.
As for making a profit from tradeskills, I think the principles apply to all legitimate ways of making plat: Patience is vital, and you need to know the game (e.g. learning what items will sell to other tradeskillers). Right now I make all the plat I need hunting in decent loot zones. I hardly ever 'farm', but take the time to find places where there's decent loot and exp to be had.
The fact that I can equip my lower alts with decent bows and arrows and the odd forged item is IMHO just a bonus.
Another reason is that while I'm not a 'thee and thou' Role Player, I do like having a toon whose skills are in keeping with his level and his time in Norrath.
As for making a profit from tradeskills, I think the principles apply to all legitimate ways of making plat: Patience is vital, and you need to know the game (e.g. learning what items will sell to other tradeskillers). Right now I make all the plat I need hunting in decent loot zones. I hardly ever 'farm', but take the time to find places where there's decent loot and exp to be had.
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Some facts to add:
I play on Firiona Vie so I dont have a bunch of alts to equip. And as the shared bank slots where patched long after the recipes where created the self-second-hand-market was obviously not thought of in the designing process. So the players like you just found SOME advantage in an otherwise badly designed feature.
Speaking of profit is it a fact that I make more plat if I sell the components alone than the combine. I can easily sell silk for 5-10p and low quality pelts for the same whereas leather padding is
1. only between 15-25
2. generally less in demand than just silk and pelts.
Even HM Backpacks go for about 50p on Vie whereas I can EASILY sell HQ Bear skin for 25 so its sheer pride if I make some BP myself for sale.
I play on Firiona Vie so I dont have a bunch of alts to equip. And as the shared bank slots where patched long after the recipes where created the self-second-hand-market was obviously not thought of in the designing process. So the players like you just found SOME advantage in an otherwise badly designed feature.
Speaking of profit is it a fact that I make more plat if I sell the components alone than the combine. I can easily sell silk for 5-10p and low quality pelts for the same whereas leather padding is
1. only between 15-25
2. generally less in demand than just silk and pelts.
Even HM Backpacks go for about 50p on Vie whereas I can EASILY sell HQ Bear skin for 25 so its sheer pride if I make some BP myself for sale.
I think at some stage they may have got inventive with the lower combines - look at baking for example.
However most people just power through those and completely ignore everything except the easiest route to mastery. This must be demoralising as hell for the designers and ultimately mean they quit bothering with anything fancy for low level combines.
Why have three different kinds of rat sandwich when everyone is going to do Batwing Crunchies followed by Fish Rolls.
Like a lot of EQ the options widen significantly at the higher levels which is where they do use some design effort.
However most people just power through those and completely ignore everything except the easiest route to mastery. This must be demoralising as hell for the designers and ultimately mean they quit bothering with anything fancy for low level combines.
Why have three different kinds of rat sandwich when everyone is going to do Batwing Crunchies followed by Fish Rolls.
Like a lot of EQ the options widen significantly at the higher levels which is where they do use some design effort.
Wherever I go - there I am.
That problem of skilling up the fastest/cheapest way comes from the fact the lower trivial products don't pay off. If tradeskilling would not be such a money sink for the first 50-100 skill points people would treat it a different way.
I agree that the tradeskill system needs work, I would like to see more usefull items that can be made at under 250 triv. It seems like you make crap all the way up to 250 in most tradeskills and then make some incredible items at 250. I would like to see that spread out a little so that mid quality items can be made at relativly low levels 75-200. I do see the reason behind the dificulty of progressing in tradeskilling. If it was easy then everyone would be a grand master everything.
I know if I were to have bought 20K PP when I started this game it would have ruined it for me. I hope that this doesn't end up being the case for you.
I know if I were to have bought 20K PP when I started this game it would have ruined it for me. I hope that this doesn't end up being the case for you.
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
As stated in previous posts Tradeskills are in jeopardy because of some retarded drops produced by Verant. Why spend all the time learning blacksmithing to craft fine plate when Netherbian Chitin has the exact same AC, extra stat bonuses, and costs alot less in the Bazaar. Although you can make some uber items once you hit GM or the higher levels in the tradeskills, actually breaking even selling your crafted goods to other players can be quite difficult when there are drops competing in the marketplace at a much lower price. There was a strong market for banded, ornate chain, and fine plate in the original 3 EQ modules, but since Luclin came out (and the other expansions) the demand has been greatly reduced because of so many good drops.
Although I love tradeskills and take great pleasure creating my own items, I must admit that without a player character market (for the goods being produced by leveling the skill) advancing in the skill can be quite a financial burden. I guess the real question is "how can we create a strong player character market for the goods that we are producing at lower levels?" Does Verant need to change the frequency of some of the drops in order to raise the item's price?
Although I love tradeskills and take great pleasure creating my own items, I must admit that without a player character market (for the goods being produced by leveling the skill) advancing in the skill can be quite a financial burden. I guess the real question is "how can we create a strong player character market for the goods that we are producing at lower levels?" Does Verant need to change the frequency of some of the drops in order to raise the item's price?
Tradeskills are what will make me decide for either EQ2, Horizons or WoW.
At the moment I can't imagine if Horizons will make it to 2005 but their tradeskill system(combined with the drops) makes it by far more attractive (if somehow ridiculous unlogic)
At the moment I can't imagine if Horizons will make it to 2005 but their tradeskill system(combined with the drops) makes it by far more attractive (if somehow ridiculous unlogic)
EQ trade skills are some of the worst that i have ever seen, thus the reason i do NONE of the EQ trades.
they cost from 10k-100k to master and sorry i have yet to have my bank account have that kind of coin in it as im always buying things like way over priced spells and such.
as i have not played SWG, i can say of the games i have played DAoC has the best set up for trade skills out there.
if you really love trade skilling, then check that game out. not only is it a great game, but the trade skill system is based much on reality as you can get.
you have a trade skill master that you get 'commisions' from. these are jobs to run around the city making items for a NPC. you make the item (getting better over time with your skills) and get paid a slight proffit for the item by the NPC who 'commisioned' the said item.
you always make a proffit on the item, but just like IRL you have to spend a portion of your proffit on materials.
this is set up much like a real apprentice type system as that is what you are in the trade skills. not only will you increase in the main trade skill, but several supporting skills will also increase. player made items are ALWAYS better then store bought items, and thus increase your proffit margin on 'commisions'. the better the item you make, the more proffit you make on the items.
the only thing EQ has over DAoC atm is amount of content, and that is due to the age of the game. DAoC is faster, better eye candy, smoother and less heavy on the system, better combat system, better trade skills, in all it is a vastly suppiror game, but again the content is greatly limited due to it being much younger of a game then EQ, thus only having 1 or 2 expansions vs EQ 6 current expansions with a 7th to be released soon. oh and DAoC is far more stable too. almost zero LD, and hardly ever a system crash/server crash from DAoC vs EQ nightly LD monster (i think i have narrowed that down to the MP3 player though) and constant zone crashing and server crashing. last night is a perfect example of that. 2 servers crashed last night in EQ.
they cost from 10k-100k to master and sorry i have yet to have my bank account have that kind of coin in it as im always buying things like way over priced spells and such.
as i have not played SWG, i can say of the games i have played DAoC has the best set up for trade skills out there.
if you really love trade skilling, then check that game out. not only is it a great game, but the trade skill system is based much on reality as you can get.
you have a trade skill master that you get 'commisions' from. these are jobs to run around the city making items for a NPC. you make the item (getting better over time with your skills) and get paid a slight proffit for the item by the NPC who 'commisioned' the said item.
you always make a proffit on the item, but just like IRL you have to spend a portion of your proffit on materials.
this is set up much like a real apprentice type system as that is what you are in the trade skills. not only will you increase in the main trade skill, but several supporting skills will also increase. player made items are ALWAYS better then store bought items, and thus increase your proffit margin on 'commisions'. the better the item you make, the more proffit you make on the items.
the only thing EQ has over DAoC atm is amount of content, and that is due to the age of the game. DAoC is faster, better eye candy, smoother and less heavy on the system, better combat system, better trade skills, in all it is a vastly suppiror game, but again the content is greatly limited due to it being much younger of a game then EQ, thus only having 1 or 2 expansions vs EQ 6 current expansions with a 7th to be released soon. oh and DAoC is far more stable too. almost zero LD, and hardly ever a system crash/server crash from DAoC vs EQ nightly LD monster (i think i have narrowed that down to the MP3 player though) and constant zone crashing and server crashing. last night is a perfect example of that. 2 servers crashed last night in EQ.
Since that is not the first time I was pointed to DAoC I just want to ask: including the shrouded Isles expantion - how would you translate the map size to that of EQ? I have to admit I m arather slow explorer and only visited Antonica, Faydwer and Luclin so far.
no clue. sadly shortly after DAoC came out (i only got to play for about 4 or 5 months) my ISP blocked the ports i needed to play DAoC. i was more then alittle upset, but not much i could do about it at the time.
have considered going back to DAoC, but i am for now enjoying my bard and nec in EQ. although SoE is taking steps that if go bad ill drop my 2 accounts and go back to DAoC without a doubt.
the old DAoC pre expansion was about the size of just antonica, but was devided into 3 realms and 1 open battle field area. this made it feel really small compaired to EQ, in fact each realm felt about the same as faydwer. so you have 3 realms about the size of faydwer(maybe a bit bigger, but did not feel that way) and 1 open area about that size again.
with the expansion i have heard some good things about it.
mind you this is not a knock on EQ as a game, but on its trade skill system.
have considered going back to DAoC, but i am for now enjoying my bard and nec in EQ. although SoE is taking steps that if go bad ill drop my 2 accounts and go back to DAoC without a doubt.
the old DAoC pre expansion was about the size of just antonica, but was devided into 3 realms and 1 open battle field area. this made it feel really small compaired to EQ, in fact each realm felt about the same as faydwer. so you have 3 realms about the size of faydwer(maybe a bit bigger, but did not feel that way) and 1 open area about that size again.
with the expansion i have heard some good things about it.
mind you this is not a knock on EQ as a game, but on its trade skill system.
Quote:
they cost from 10k-100k to master
Not true, brewing, cooking and Jewelrycraft can be Gm'd for far less and i made a profit from JC on the way up.
It can also be said that Tailoring is the cheapest to GM if you are patient enough to farm all the things for the combines.
I am a little annoyed that prices for tradeskill items have been nerfed, shouldn't the many hours doing combines entitle you to some margin of return for all the effort?
I have made an overall profit on alchemy. It takes patience and I haven't done it overnight. It is getting more expensive the higher I get, but I will still make a profit (more sow potions sigh). I am sure some of this is true for other tradeskills as well.
First, I will destroy an item or give it to one of my other toons before I sell under cost and nerf my own profession (not counting failures here at low levels-you can't sell a sow potion for 500pp because you failed a lot. I am talking cost, with say a 10% failure rate built in, and that is a fairly high failure rate.) I do not spend money raising my skills when I am so desperate for the plat that I am willing to lose money just to get a small percent back.
Second, if someone is selling sow potions for a reasonalble price, say 90pp, don't set your price lower (that desperate thing again), you are just hurting yourself, and again your trade. They sell well at 90pp, so why undercut. Sell them low enough and people will buy to re-sell them for a decent profit.
As far as baking goes, I've also made some small profit on that too. No one really wants the food vendors sell. Even the best stuff doesn't last as long as a fish roll. Patty melts and fish rolls sell in bazaar.
Look in bazaar and figure out what is selling, make those things, and you will make a profit. This is basic business 101. Sell under cost and you won't be doing it long, or want to do it long.
First, I will destroy an item or give it to one of my other toons before I sell under cost and nerf my own profession (not counting failures here at low levels-you can't sell a sow potion for 500pp because you failed a lot. I am talking cost, with say a 10% failure rate built in, and that is a fairly high failure rate.) I do not spend money raising my skills when I am so desperate for the plat that I am willing to lose money just to get a small percent back.
Second, if someone is selling sow potions for a reasonalble price, say 90pp, don't set your price lower (that desperate thing again), you are just hurting yourself, and again your trade. They sell well at 90pp, so why undercut. Sell them low enough and people will buy to re-sell them for a decent profit.
As far as baking goes, I've also made some small profit on that too. No one really wants the food vendors sell. Even the best stuff doesn't last as long as a fish roll. Patty melts and fish rolls sell in bazaar.
Look in bazaar and figure out what is selling, make those things, and you will make a profit. This is basic business 101. Sell under cost and you won't be doing it long, or want to do it long.
Greetings,
As most of the other posters have stated, tradeskills aren't mainly for profit, but to help equip your characters and maybe make a little money along the way.
I have concentrated on Tailoring, but also have several other tradeskills at or above the 200 mark.
Baking and Brewing are probably the easiest and cheapest to take to 250, as you can advance almost all the way on vendor-bought items in both skills. You'll never make your fortune baking or brewing, but my characters have benefited from stacks of Misty Thicket Picnics and Qeynos Afternoon Tea - and the excess sells pretty well in the Bazaar.
Jewelcraft is a bit more expensive to take up, but can be done. Again, now with the vendors in PoK selling the more expensive gems (Fire opals, star rubies, flame emeralds) you can take this all the way to 250 if you wish. Remember, you don't need enchanted metal just to skill up. Buy normal gold/silver/plat bars and use those. The trivials on the items are just the same as their enchanted cousins, and sell your successes back to the vendor to show minimal losses on the way up.
Pottery I'm not going to comment on, as I've not done any for ages!
Smithing and Tailoring have to be the toughest to push on to top levels. You'll need a bit of tailoring skill if you want to be a smith, and a bit of brewing and smithing skill if you want to be a tailor. Getting up to about 115 in Tailoring isn't too hard - patchwork, raw silk, cured silk, greyhopper and quivers will take you there. After that it gets tougher, with crystalline silk, Wu's, acrylia studded, cultural items, LoY ribbons, Lemming fur backpacks, acrylia reinforced and Velious/PoP items.
You can support your skill by selling items that others use. Leather padding and silks are the favourites, and while they might be 15 - 25pp on FV server, on Mith Marr at the moment you can get 35 - 50pp per padding and around 5pp per silk.
Tailoring has funded all of my equipment upgrades, barring those I've made myself. Fleeting quivers have been my biggest earner - materials costing around 1500 - 2k, selling the quiver for 3 - 4k. Also, there seems to be a large market for Acrylia Studded Sleeves. I can sell 4 sets of these per night at 600pp each, when all 4 sets cost a total of about 600 - 800pp to make. The profit on Velious armour (even buying all the materials for Cobalt Drake or Black Pantherskin) is well worth the effort. I have yet to hit the true top end of the tailoring market, but I currently make a fair bit of dosh, am pretty well equipped, and have a pile of money in the bank that is starting to burn a hole in my pocket!
So I feel tradeskills can make a profit, although I acknowledge that not everyone enjoys them. I do, and will continue to do so - give them a try, pick your skill and set your prices competitively - you'll soon have some cash for those items that are on your wish list!
As most of the other posters have stated, tradeskills aren't mainly for profit, but to help equip your characters and maybe make a little money along the way.
I have concentrated on Tailoring, but also have several other tradeskills at or above the 200 mark.
Baking and Brewing are probably the easiest and cheapest to take to 250, as you can advance almost all the way on vendor-bought items in both skills. You'll never make your fortune baking or brewing, but my characters have benefited from stacks of Misty Thicket Picnics and Qeynos Afternoon Tea - and the excess sells pretty well in the Bazaar.
Jewelcraft is a bit more expensive to take up, but can be done. Again, now with the vendors in PoK selling the more expensive gems (Fire opals, star rubies, flame emeralds) you can take this all the way to 250 if you wish. Remember, you don't need enchanted metal just to skill up. Buy normal gold/silver/plat bars and use those. The trivials on the items are just the same as their enchanted cousins, and sell your successes back to the vendor to show minimal losses on the way up.
Pottery I'm not going to comment on, as I've not done any for ages!
Smithing and Tailoring have to be the toughest to push on to top levels. You'll need a bit of tailoring skill if you want to be a smith, and a bit of brewing and smithing skill if you want to be a tailor. Getting up to about 115 in Tailoring isn't too hard - patchwork, raw silk, cured silk, greyhopper and quivers will take you there. After that it gets tougher, with crystalline silk, Wu's, acrylia studded, cultural items, LoY ribbons, Lemming fur backpacks, acrylia reinforced and Velious/PoP items.
You can support your skill by selling items that others use. Leather padding and silks are the favourites, and while they might be 15 - 25pp on FV server, on Mith Marr at the moment you can get 35 - 50pp per padding and around 5pp per silk.
Tailoring has funded all of my equipment upgrades, barring those I've made myself. Fleeting quivers have been my biggest earner - materials costing around 1500 - 2k, selling the quiver for 3 - 4k. Also, there seems to be a large market for Acrylia Studded Sleeves. I can sell 4 sets of these per night at 600pp each, when all 4 sets cost a total of about 600 - 800pp to make. The profit on Velious armour (even buying all the materials for Cobalt Drake or Black Pantherskin) is well worth the effort. I have yet to hit the true top end of the tailoring market, but I currently make a fair bit of dosh, am pretty well equipped, and have a pile of money in the bank that is starting to burn a hole in my pocket!
So I feel tradeskills can make a profit, although I acknowledge that not everyone enjoys them. I do, and will continue to do so - give them a try, pick your skill and set your prices competitively - you'll soon have some cash for those items that are on your wish list!
i know jew craft can not be mastered for less then 10k, heck there are combine out there that are in the 1-2k range just to start. now add a few failurs on top of that and you will blow though the 10k margin really really fast.
i am talking every coin you drop into buying an item for every combine.
jewl craft will not make you a proffit selling back to merchants, and with the bazar, silver, and most gold or electrum items will not sell in the baz any longer, not when you can buy better items for much less.
why would anyone buy a silver engagement ring that is only +2INT for 5-10p, when you can spend a few more pp and buy something that is far suppior to +2INT...
just not worth the effort IMHO, and that is the key to my posts on this thread. this is MY OPPINION and yes i am very aware of oppinions and A-holes. everyone has one.
i am talking every coin you drop into buying an item for every combine.
jewl craft will not make you a proffit selling back to merchants, and with the bazar, silver, and most gold or electrum items will not sell in the baz any longer, not when you can buy better items for much less.
why would anyone buy a silver engagement ring that is only +2INT for 5-10p, when you can spend a few more pp and buy something that is far suppior to +2INT...
just not worth the effort IMHO, and that is the key to my posts on this thread. this is MY OPPINION and yes i am very aware of oppinions and A-holes. everyone has one.
Leiany wrote:
That problem of skilling up the fastest/cheapest way comes from the fact the lower trivial products don't pay off. If tradeskilling would not be such a money sink for the first 50-100 skill points people would treat it a different way.
Hmmm... I actually think that's what makes tradeskilling valuable in the long run.
If it was profitable to skill up in tradeskills, then everyone would do it. If everyone did it (why not? You make money at it, right?), then who's going to buy the results? No one.
Whether you agree with it or not, EQ has always had a commitment to the "player based" economy. This means that SOE has specifically designed the economy to encourage players to buy and sell from eachother. Everything in the game follows this pattern. Vendors sell stuff for ludcrously high amounts. This encourages players to buy from other players. Vendors buy stuff for ludicrously low amounts. This encourages players to *sell* to other players. Trade skill made items don't sell to vendors for more then it cost to make them. Thus, you either take the time trying to skill up while making stuff that might sell to players for a profit (which you can do in most skills, but is *very* slow), or you simply write it off as the cost to increase the skill.
If they made it so that you could buy tradeskill components, use them to increase you skill, and then sell the results for more then it cost to buy them, the entire tradeskill economy would be broken. Why spend 5k on a GM tradeskill item? Just spend a few hours (probably less time then it takes to make 5k), work your own skill up high enough to make the item yourself, and make money in the process! Um... while that's great in a "eveyone's able to do everything themselves" kind of way, that's not the "vision" of the EQ economy.
The purpose of EQ tradeskills it not to be able to make stuff for yourself cheaper. It really never has been. It's about spending time and money to be able to make stuff that other people will buy. It's critical that you must first pay that initial cost before you can make a profit, or everyone will just make their own stuff (which breaks player interaction).
It's not "broken". It's an active choice (and clearly stated one) by VI and later SOE. The system does work, you just have to understand what its purpose is.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
ok how about no profit from merchants. but no more then a 5% loss.
like alshemy. i just started do it 2 weeks ago, i made some sow poitions cost me 210pp to buy 40 trys worth, made 35 not bad, sold in bazaar made 15pp profit each set of 10. 45pp total profit for 15 min of work. i can kill for more in 5 minutes. but if i tried to sell that and the other potions i made for the skill ups to a merchant. i got offered like 13pp per set of 10 , that would mean 50-55 pp to sel all 40 back to vendor. loosing 158 pp. that does not make sence. my selling price to vendor may be off, all i remember if laughing and thinking these better sell in bazaar for less then a loss then the merchant.
like alshemy. i just started do it 2 weeks ago, i made some sow poitions cost me 210pp to buy 40 trys worth, made 35 not bad, sold in bazaar made 15pp profit each set of 10. 45pp total profit for 15 min of work. i can kill for more in 5 minutes. but if i tried to sell that and the other potions i made for the skill ups to a merchant. i got offered like 13pp per set of 10 , that would mean 50-55 pp to sel all 40 back to vendor. loosing 158 pp. that does not make sence. my selling price to vendor may be off, all i remember if laughing and thinking these better sell in bazaar for less then a loss then the merchant.
To play well with others is to NOT GET THEM KILLED
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1x darkfall "worse game ever"
8x EQ 1 accounts char's lvl 30-52 7 years (3 accounts active)2nd fav
6x Asheron's call lvl 40-99 one lvl 132 (FAV GAME ALL TIME)
2 EQ 2
3 Horizons
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beta's AC2,lotro,eq2,aoc, lineage 2, darkfall, crimecraft, fallen earth, aion, Jade Dynasty
5x eve online (Currently playing 2 accounts)
1x darkfall "worse game ever"
8x EQ 1 accounts char's lvl 30-52 7 years (3 accounts active)2nd fav
6x Asheron's call lvl 40-99 one lvl 132 (FAV GAME ALL TIME)
2 EQ 2
3 Horizons
3 WOW
3 DAOC
1 D&D online
4 FFXI
2 vanguard
4 anarchy
2 SWG
1 lineage 2
2 AOC
1 LOTRO
1 City of H / V
beta's AC2,lotro,eq2,aoc, lineage 2, darkfall, crimecraft, fallen earth, aion, Jade Dynasty
Quote:
know jew craft can not be mastered for less then 10k, heck there are combine out there that are in the 1-2k range just to start. now add a few failurs on top of that and you will blow though the 10k margin really really fast.
i am talking every coin you drop into buying an item for every combine.
jewl craft will not make you a proffit selling back to merchants, and with the bazar, silver, and most gold or electrum items will not sell in the baz any longer, not when you can buy better items for much less.
why would anyone buy a silver engagement ring that is only +2INT for 5-10p, when you can spend a few more pp and buy something that is far suppior to +2INT...
just not worth the effort IMHO, and that is the key to my posts on this thread. this is MY OPPINION and yes i am very aware of oppinions and A-holes. everyone has one.
i am talking every coin you drop into buying an item for every combine.
jewl craft will not make you a proffit selling back to merchants, and with the bazar, silver, and most gold or electrum items will not sell in the baz any longer, not when you can buy better items for much less.
why would anyone buy a silver engagement ring that is only +2INT for 5-10p, when you can spend a few more pp and buy something that is far suppior to +2INT...
just not worth the effort IMHO, and that is the key to my posts on this thread. this is MY OPPINION and yes i am very aware of oppinions and A-holes. everyone has one.
Sorry but you are wrong on 1 small point...
When you enchant the metal you can make a profit on selling back to the vender. However this takes a very LONG time, and you are better off earning money the olf fashion way.
It only cost me 3k net loss to Grandmaster JC and that is without enchanting 90% of the bars and with out selling ANY pieces to players. Granted I had 255 INT when I started tho.
Well regarding that while building up skill one fails about 50% of the time it would even cost enough money if you could sell the whole item back to the vendor at the price of the components.
And I seriously doubt that any smith will ever sell some non-magial weapon to any player as long as you can buy things like an Ornate Blood Dagger
for 10p at a vendor. EQ's economy is just completely screwed up outside the Bazaar.
Speaking of enchanted metals- I bought some enchanted silver onetime at a vendor in FP and it did cost exactlythe same as the none-enchanted one so I doubt that whoever sold it made a profit.
Edited, Sat Jan 24 05:40:35 2004 by Leiany
And I seriously doubt that any smith will ever sell some non-magial weapon to any player as long as you can buy things like an Ornate Blood Dagger
for 10p at a vendor. EQ's economy is just completely screwed up outside the Bazaar.
Speaking of enchanted metals- I bought some enchanted silver onetime at a vendor in FP and it did cost exactlythe same as the none-enchanted one so I doubt that whoever sold it made a profit.
Edited, Sat Jan 24 05:40:35 2004 by Leiany
gbaji wrote:
The purpose of EQ tradeskills it not to be able to make stuff for yourself cheaper. It really never has been. It's about spending time and money to be able to make stuff that other people will buy. It's critical that you must first pay that initial cost before you can make a profit, or everyone will just make their own stuff (which breaks player interaction).It's not "broken". It's an active choice (and clearly stated one) by VI and later SOE. .
I don't doubt that thee is a purpose in every one of the general game mechanics in EQ. But since DAoC and Horizons go a different way it must be allowed to compare or even rank the systems.
gbaji wrote:
The system does work, you just have to understand what its purpose is.
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