Well. What I can see, nearly everyone who are non-paladins think we cant DPS that good as warriors. Im a Paladin with Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros, and do you know what? I outdamage 2hander fury warriors on every raid. in top 10 on damagemeter.
If you outdamage the dps warriors as a paladin, your guild is really really reaaaallly crappy. There is no way that a warrior would be out-dpsed by a pala in any situation unless tha paladin is full epic and the warrior is full green. Warriors are a DPS/Tank class, Paladins are a Heal/Off-tank class, a warrior who knows how to play will out-dps a paladin easily. Sure Paladins CAN do decent dps now with the 2.0.1 patch, but they still do worse dps than ALL OTHER CLASSES, if you claim something else you need to learn to play the game. Paladins strenght is in his survival ability, he can outlast every other class thanks to cheap heals, bubbles, stuns & disorients and a bunch of great blessings & seals.
Videos like that one you linked just start fights because it encourages people to play a class in raids differently than it was designed to be played. Have seen so many bad paladins and druids, doing damage while their group dies or requires healing from people outside the group.
Sure, every single class in this game can swing a weapon but not every class can heal.
As one of the few classes that can heal, wouldn't your raid members appreciated some heals?
So while you are swinging that Dark Edge of Insanity, other raiders are getting hurt and need heals. All you are doing is adding to the healing load of the raid's "real" healers, the "real" stars that work so hard under appreciated and under rated, while you play the wrong class trying to make a point no one but you cares about.
Instead of wasting our time with videos of DPS-adins, why not make of a video of paladins saving the day as a healing class, healing people, showing shots of your total healing done and healing per second?
We(pallys) pay good %**king money to play this game, JUST LIKE YOU. Don't tell us what we should or shouldnt do.
I have my epic healing AND DPS gear and I do very well at both.(When I say well I mean Top 5 healing in NAXX(thru 10 Bosses) and top 5 in BG(*yes, after cross servers too), consistently)
Paladins are not warriors. Agreed. No argument.
But can I kick the CRAP out of an epic prot and/or dps warrior in a duel? Plenty of times.
This is dare I say it, A GAME! And it's supposed to be fun. So SCREW the naysayer(edit: overly psychotic hardcore player who thinks anything less then a 7 day raid period 52 weeks a year is a casual noob, player) telling paladins to just fit "their" role. Our role is a hybrid. And if were pretty damn good at all of it, then more power to us. Just because you chose a class that is overly specific in nature, that's your call, not ours.
I pay $15.00 a month to get the MOST out of WOW, not what YOU think I should be doing.
Beat warriors in a duel...of course. You have this wonderful combo called the "bubble and heal". Go duel something more challenging than a warrior. kkthxbye
He does, but then after the first +250 tick he gets hit by a Judgement, and the palla then goes back to healing (unless he got full hp from the first heal, which is likely in case it critted). The pala also have HoJ which means another 1-2 Heals.
Who ever sayed that paladins cant dps ....it means they have never played the class ... heres proof http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=28321 And about shamans....wel ..they will never receave it ....and i dont think they will bee dps in raids because of the lack of continuecy in huge amounts of damage and the lack of mana :P
Our last 2 went to paladins simply because no other warriors really needed. It isn't worth it to spend any significant amount of AP when you already have an ashkandi, claymore of unholy might, or a few nice 1 handers.
We have looted 2 severance and 2 claymore of unholy might. They went to 2 pallys and 2 prot warriors The dps warriors like me get castigator, servo arm and hatchet and we already have our DEoI or ashkandi.
In lots of fights I can go full dps without bothering about agro : fury DW > fury 2H
for crying out Claven. We paladins don´t do half as much dps as warriors, but we have kick-ass auras and buffs, so if u wanna see even more higher DPS ratings i suggest u don´t anger your guild paladins. and for the record, we have the druid and the priest class for the healing so we r healers ONLY in emergency situations. so we should just stick to healin´... why doesn´t blizzard just eraze paladin, shaman, rogue, mage, warlock and hunter and leave warrior and the "healer" classes so u can just consentrate to doing your oh so high DPS. same should be said that rogues can do some awesome kick-ass DMG, so warriors should just tank, cus´ that´s the thing you have been created to do
Do you know why paladins make raiding that much easier?
Actually there are several..think about them as combat logistics operatives. In a war... you think about the army and the tanks and bombers doing all the damage... however without support divisions... they don't do squat. The game is similar in its effects in a raid....
(these are not listed in any particualar order)
#1 Auras.... additional resistances armor can make the difference and give your group the edge in a tough fight... its subtle but it counts... concentration aura for casters..Fire resistance aura... +60 FR... enough said.
#2. Immediate emergency healing... ever been on your warrior main tanking and almost ready to die and the pally pops a lay on hands on you to keep you alive and increase your armor by 30% while other healers readjust? You have just been supported and the raid potentially savedby a pally.. NO OTHER CLASS CAN DO THIS... read that again.. NO OTHER CLASS can single heal INSTANTLY for as high an amount as a pally lay on hands.... I don't know about you... but raid savers like that work for me.
#3. And possibly the most important aspect of paladins... JUDGEMENTS.... 2 pallys... one for judgement of wisdom... one for judgement of light.. at the same time you fill the raid with mana and hp... if you can't figure out the value of this.... quit wow and play checkers you are too stupid to actually raid well.
#4 So priests and druids are the only healers and pallys are emergency healers only? I can tell you now I have yet to be outhealed by ANY druid....and frequently outheal most of our priests. Nearly full holy speced with a massive mana pool... illumination and an extremely high crit spell %...(6700 hp 9500 armor and 8500 mana for raids in healing gear) means I am still up.. still healing everyone when other classes are out of mana or dead .... WANDING on a pally's judgement to fill up again...
#5. DI so the raid is wiping on a progression.... and soulstones are down.... a pally drops a DI on a rezr.. and the raid gets up and rebuffs and tries again from that spot instead of a reclear/runback.... this saves 30-45 minutes of your REAL LIFE TIME.... if thats not valuable to you.... I don't know what is
If you disagree with this remember...Yeah.... YOU didn't design the game pal.. YOU are a player.. and if you are an alliance raider... you HAVE been the benificiary of a pally's support.... if you are a horde raider... its been a shammy that has been supporting you in a similar fashion The bottom line is this... there is real value to EVERY class in this game...you think you know what you are talking about when in fact you only make it clear to me that I don't play the game with you.
Gl noob... you'll need it on any high end challenge in this game.
Do you know why paladins make raiding that much easier?
Actually there are several..think about them as combat logistics operatives. In a war... you think about the army and the tanks and bombers doing all the damage... however without support divisions... they don't do squat. The game is similar in its effects in a raid....
(these are not listed in any particualar order)
#1 Auras.... additional resistances armor can make the difference and give your group the edge in a tough fight... its subtle but it counts... concentration aura for casters..Fire resistance aura... +60 FR... enough said.
#2. Immediate emergency healing... ever been on your warrior main tanking and almost ready to die and the pally pops a lay on hands on you to keep you alive and increase your armor by 30% while other healers readjust? You have just been supported and the raid potentially savedby a pally.. NO OTHER CLASS CAN DO THIS... read that again.. NO OTHER CLASS can single heal INSTANTLY for as high an amount as a pally lay on hands.... I don't know about you... but raid savers like that work for me.
#3. And possibly the most important aspect of paladins... JUDGEMENTS.... 2 pallys... one for judgement of wisdom... one for judgement of light.. at the same time you fill the raid with mana and hp... if you can't figure out the value of this.... quit wow and play checkers you are too stupid to actually raid well.
#4 So priests and druids are the only healers and pallys are emergency healers only? I can tell you now I have yet to be outhealed by ANY druid....and frequently outheal most of our priests. Nearly full holy speced with a massive mana pool... illumination and an extremely high crit spell %...(6700 hp 9500 armor and 8500 mana for raids in healing gear) means I am still up.. still healing everyone when other classes are out of mana or dead .... WANDING on a pally's judgement to fill up again...
#5. DI so the raid is wiping on a progression.... and soulstonse are down.... a pally drops a DI on a rezr.. and the raid gets up and rebuffs and tries again from that spot instead of a reclear/runback.... this saves 30-45 minutes of your REAL LIFE TIME.... if thats not valuable to you.... I don't know what is
If you disagree with this remember...Yeah.... YOU didn't design the game pal.. YOU are a player.. and if you are an alliance raider... you HAVE been the benificiary of a pally's support.... if you are a horde raider... its been a shammy that has been supporting you in a similar fashion The bottom line is this... there is real value to EVERY class in this game...you think you know what you are talking about when in fact you only make it clear to me that I don't play the game with you.
Gl noob... you'll need it on any high end challenge in this game.
LMAO :P Somehow I think you're being a little sarcastic. I don't know what it is...I can't quite put my finger on it...but I definitely think you are being sarcastic. :P
a Shaman / Paladin thats takes it use it for PVP , whats the difference?
and if you say that you are going to do pve damage with 2hander. dont give me that bullsh*t. if you are going to do serious dmg in pve, it's Fury spec. There's no chance that a 2hander can meet up with dual wield fury spec in pve damage.
first of all, fury isn't ALLWAYS better than arms in pve, depends on what weps u have, if you normally have some bwl/mc/aq 1her this is better for anything (warrior) and it's veeryy good for pvp, alot better than rank 14 weps becouse of the 2% critt instead of 1% and more str and more stamina, even though I'm both hunter and shaman, I'd never take this wepon if a warrior would need it, Herald of voe is good enough for dps shammy... this wepon would make a warrior rly overpowerd.. nothing more to say
about the whole DW fury > 2hander dps, theyre the same
the simple reason being, a warrior cant shed aggro, therefore they can get all the nifty weapons etc, but they will have to hold back, because the tank simply wont generate more aggro
i can do the same dps with severance as somebody using the swords off kelthuzad, simply because he will overaggro if he tries to do more dmg than the tanks aggro can handle, making him die, and me still dpsing :)
there are 2 sides to the story, imo the first 1-2 2handers that are supreme for warriors should be warrior prio, the rest sheer FFA
dual wield = 2h dps, u cant do more dps than the tank can hold aggro :)
hot sh*t axe, and on the topic of warrior pulling agro, stop HSing all 2gether, if ur using a 2h such as this, spec ms couse ur wasting ur time with 2h fury and use whirlwind or abilitys 2 help the raid such as thunder clap and demo shout.
no offense but what tardcake said this where a hunter item...str does nothing for us. and its just 18stamina...go get zink insteed, the 28stamina pwns and 72ap is just a bonus :D
Okay guys let me share a little bit of logic, especially to the warriors who think that the only class that deserves weapons are warriors...
2handers ARE NOT raid progression weapons. If a warrior wants to be a tank, he will spec prot and if a warrior wants to DPS he SHOULD(and will be, as all warriors one day realize) be DW fury. Blizzard made DW fury the supreme warrior DPS spec and they did so intentionally... why would blizzard do this? simple... So hybrid classes (pallies, shaman, and druids) dont get completely reemed on PVP gear. Its that simple, blizzard took away any reason why a warrior would have priority.
There are all kinds of warriors out there, but the smartest ones already know the right build for best PvE - PvP mixup. 31-5-15 brothers, the way to go. U have all the migitation skills needed for tankin (only miss the snap aggro from SS) AND u can do dps in raids and be fairly competitive in PvP. For those warriors who have sacrificed 15 points to prot tree, this axe is kind of a reward. all other warriors besides these and prot tanks are just wannabe rogues in plate, plus dangerous aggroers who have zero aggro reducing abilities (few trinkets out there), and must UNDERplay their class to succeed in raid environment (aka, not to pull aggro). Want melee dps? recruit rogues. Severance is so good also because it "forgives" some lack in your other dps gear. If u have the imba, go for DeoI, nice proc and better max dmg.
You know what makes my guild the best in the world?? We don't let Pali's roll on 2h's hahahhahaha This finally gets the point into theiir head that they can not dps :)
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Lvl 60 Dwarf Warrior 60 Orc Warrior 60 Troll Priest 60 UD rogue 60 Human Mage 51 NE Hunter. 34 Human Paladin 32 Human Rogue 32 NE Priest 28 NE Druid 27 Tauren Shaman
wow, GG buddy - how far has your guild made it in the game so far? And good luck being able to keep paladins in your guild if you have such a stupid rule as to not allow them to get 2handed weapons.
Anyway, this weapon will make a nice addition to my PvP collection, because that's what it truly is. We paladins recognize that warriors should get first dibs on certain weapons (Ashkhandi was warrior priority), but after some of your tanks get some nice killing sticks, it's nice to be able to bid on such an item and have fun with it. Plus, all of the warriors in my guild either have Ashkhandi or Dark Edge of Insanity and don't want to spend their dkp on Severrance, for what amounts to a minor upgrade for them and are holding out for Corrupted Ashbringer and Might of Menethil down the road. Hell, we killed Gluth for the first time today and a fellow paladin won Claymore of Uhholy Might. You know why he won? CAUSE HE HAD THE MOST DKP RETARD AND NONE OF THE WARRIORS WANTED IT.
GO PALLYS GO PALLYS GO PALLYS GO PALLYS im a 60 paladin...sh*t armor...but im still doin pretty good lol, took down a GM fury warrior to half health in a duel that had about 2 naxx items
i guess some of you guys are right, there is no line "warriors only". acctually u can give it even to hunter , since most of the people are greedy. but even hunter is going to make DMG, which is most unknown word or feeling to a paladin. "joke" but dont cry, when a warrior gets some items with heal on it ^^. thats is just game and nothing else. if u have fun with it, get it. its acctually based on a system. if u have ffa u have to live with it.
i really doubt ull see paly with this any time soon unless ur guilds on farm status with naxx which we Know no one is the wep will go to a warrior almost definetly
There is no line that says "Warriors Only." Thus, Pallies could get this weapon too.
But what do you care? The best DPS Warriors in my raids are DW-Fury. In fact, that seems to be a trend in most guilds as well. As a Priest, I rarely (if ever) have to heal the smart DPS Warriors, because they're not spamming HS for 1.5-2k a whack. I let the 2H-Fury Warriors die, because they consistently pull agro off the tanks too often.
Case in point, Warriors and Palladins have a right to this weapon. End of story.
Gotta agree here... Pallies are entitled to the weapon as much as Wars. If Wars want to DPS, they DW Fury. Our DW-Fury Wars beat the crap out of 2H-Fury Wars all the time.
But I have to add something here... I'm really sick of Wars 2H-dps'ing. Yes, it does help the raid out, but at what cost? I see dps wars pulling Agro off our tanks all the time, because they spam HS like it's going out of style. I guess most Wars don't realize that HS is meant for maintaining agro, more-so than just an ability to spam. It's much easier for DW-Fury wars to maintain high dps with little agro-pulling than 2H-Fury wars with comparable gear, because their HS's don't hit for 1-2k.
As a Priest, I wish I could slap some sense into our tanks. I'm trying to do that, by not healing the idiot 2H-Fury wars in our raids. Hopefully the more they die, the more they learn to either sword+board it, or use DW. You all should consider that, before screaming about who this weapon should go to... "If I pull agro, are my priests going to continuously heal my dumb ass?"
Dual-wielding warriors are more likely to pull aggro than 2h warriors for two reasons - They do more damage, and so build more threat, and they use Heroic Strike much more than a warrior using a 2h. A warrior using a 2h doesn't have enough rage to spam HS, they're using MS/BT, WW, OP and whatever is left for occaisional Cleave/HS.
Are you speaking from experience or conjecture? Because I know I pull aggro far more often with an OEB despite doing slightly less DPS. One early crit will send you skyrocketing past the tank, and with 30% crit in Fury (with Feral) this usually happens once or twice a night. (Versus basically never with my Brute + Warblade, as Mobius related...five times =P.) The alternative is to wait beyond the aggro call to let loose, which puts you even further behind where'd you be with DW.
Spamming HS mindlessly is a dumbass thing to do that gets you killed no matter what you're using, once you've geared up. Spending Rage on Cleave makes me cry, but on some bosses it's the only way to stay alive.
Gotta agree here... Pallies are entitled to the weapon as much as Wars. If Wars want to DPS, they DW Fury. Our DW-Fury Wars beat the crap out of 2H-Fury Wars all the time.
But I have to add something here... I'm really sick of Wars 2H-dps'ing. Yes, it does help the raid out, but at what cost? I see dps wars pulling agro off our tanks all the time, because they spam HS like it's going out of style. I guess most Wars don't realize that HS is meant for maintaining agro, more-so than just an ability to spam. It's much easier for DW-Fury wars to maintain high dps with little agro-pulling than 2H-Fury wars with comparable gear, because their HS's don't hit for 1-2k.
As a Priest, I wish I could slap some sense into our tanks. I'm trying to do that, by not healing the idiot 2H-Fury wars in our raids. Hopefully the more they die, the more they learn to either sword+board it, or use DW. You all should consider that, before screaming about who this weapon should go to.
Gotta agree here... Pallies are entitled to the weapon as much as Wars. If Wars want to DPS, they DW Fury. Our DW-Fury Wars beat the crap out of 2H-Fury Wars all the time.
But I have to add something here... I'm really sick of Wars 2H-dps'ing. Yes, it does help the raid out, but at what cost? I see dps wars pulling agro off our tanks all the time, because they spam HS like it's going out of style. I guess most Wars don't realize that HS is meant for maintaining agro, more-so than just an ability to spam. It's much easier for DW-Fury wars to maintain high dps with little agro-pulling than 2H-Fury wars with comparable gear, because their HS's don't hit for 1-2k.
As a Priest, I wish I could slap some sense into our tanks. I'm trying to do that, by not healing the idiot 2H-Fury wars in our raids. Hopefully the more they die, the more they learn to either sword+board it, or use DW. You all should consider that, before screaming about who this weapon should go to... "If I pull agro, are my priests going to continuously heal my dumb ass?"
Gotta agree here... Pallies are entitled to the weapon as much as Wars. If Wars want to DPS, they DW Fury. Our DW-Fury Wars beat the crap out of 2H-Fury Wars all the time.
But I have to add something here... I'm really sick of Wars 2H-dps'ing. Yes, it does help the raid out, but at what cost? I see dps wars pulling Agro off our tanks all the time, because they spam HS like it's going out of style. I guess most Wars don't realize that HS is meant for maintaining agro, more-so than just an ability to spam. It's much easier for DW-Fury wars to maintain high dps with little agro-pulling than 2H-Fury wars with comparable gear, because their HS's don't hit for 1-2k.
As a Priest, I wish I could slap some sense into our tanks. I'm trying to do that, by not healing the idiot 2H-Fury wars in our raids. Hopefully the more they die, the more they learn to either sword+board it, or use DW. You all should consider that, before screaming about who this weapon should go to... "If I pull agro, are my priests going to continuously heal my dumbass?"
Gotta agree here... Pallies are entitled to the weapon as much as Wars. If Wars want to DPS, they DW Fury. Our DW-Fury Wars beat the crap out of 2H-Fury Wars all the time.
But I have to add something here... I'm really sick of Wars 2H-dps'ing. Yes, it does help the raid out, but at what cost? I see dps wars pulling Agro off our tanks all the time, because they spam HS like it's going out of style. I guess most Wars don't realize that HS is meant for maintaining agro, more-so than just an ability to spam. It's much easier for DW-Fury wars to maintain high dps with little agro-pulling than 2H-Fury wars with comparable gear, because their HS's don't hit for 1-2k.
As a Priest, I wish I could slap some sense into our tanks. I'm trying to do that, by not healing the idiot 2H-Fury wars in our raids. Hopefully the more they die, the more they learn to either sword+board it, or use DW. You all should consider that, before screaming about who this weapon should go to... "If I pull agro, are my priests going to continuously heal my dumb ass?"
it's up to each guild to deside who gets or dont gets loot from instances. so to sit here and call eachoter noobs because a pally/warrior looted a blade/axe/mace whatnut is just silly. hopefully if the guild got skills engough to down patchwerk they have enough to distribute loot to the members.
Finally, someone with a more decent mind. It's not gonna help sitting here arguing, it's different from guild to guild. So just focus on your own guild and how you raid. Also, there were a nice post saying that Paladins should sometimes be allowed to roll on neat weapons aswell, not just for DPS, but for the main object of every game ; Have fun. But as I wrote above; It's different from guild to guild.
For a Weapon that's 8-9 item levels higher (MoM, according to its listed 95.3 DPS) the stats of Kel's mace are either unimpressive or, in Severance's case, mighty nice.
Just because it has an higher item level does not mean it has to have double the stats of something with a lower item level, because it is based on all of the items stats: DPS, min/max dmg, proccs, equips bonus etc.
This place has become a breeding ground for retards, just as Thottbot is... Atleast Allakhazam used to be okay for "constructive comments"....
All i really have to say is, I play a warrior, and I dont see the whole "warrior weapon" vs. "pala weapon" discussion here.
If you want to go dps with your warrior, respecc DW fury. It DOES do more dps and you have no reason to whine about Paladins looting this.
If by any other reason you want this over a paladin, it's for PvP - which quite frankly isn't going to help your guild PvE progress anyway.
And last - it's about time we respect the fact that Paladins loot these kind of PvP weapons for the same reason as we warriors do: To have FUN, NOT to DPS. Once again, if you wanna DPS, go fury DW.
All i really have to say is, I play a warrior, and I dont see the whole "warrior weapon" vs. "pala weapon" discussion here.
If you want to go dps with your warrior, respecc DW fury. It DOES do more dps and you have no reason to whine about Paladins looting this.
If by any other reason you want this over a paladin, it's for PvP - which quite frankly isn't going to help your guild PvE progress anyway.
And last - it's about time we respect the fact that Paladins loot these kind of PvP weapons for the same reason as we warriors do: To have FUN, NOT to DPS. Once again, if you wanna DPS, go fury DW.
Chae
thank you chae finally someone gives a damm
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UltimaKnight -70 Human Paldin- aggramar Huzza -54 Troll Warrior- BlackRock
"This place has become a breeding ground for retards, just as Thottbot is... Atleast Allakhazam used to be okay for "constructive comments"....
All i really have to say is, I play a warrior, and I dont see the whole "warrior weapon" vs. "pala weapon" discussion here.
If you want to go dps with your warrior, respecc DW fury. It DOES do more dps and you have no reason to whine about Paladins looting this.
If by any other reason you want this over a paladin, it's for PvP - which quite frankly isn't going to help your guild PvE progress anyway.
And last - it's about time we respect the fact that Paladins loot these kind of PvP weapons for the same reason as we warriors do: To have FUN, NOT to DPS. Once again, if you wanna DPS, go fury DW.
i dunno....In all my naxx gear and this axe i can get to about a 44 crit rate...i can out dps nearly all DW fury warriors...furry is good up to a point but then just a supreme crit rate will be able to surpass DW fury...not that i dont have anything against DW fury...but it can be beaten by MS spec if u got the gear...pshhhhhhhh
So tired of these moron lolladins that keep saying EVERYTHING is a paladin weapon... Warriors need good weapons more than you ffs! They can do ONE thing and that is dps, which they do a hell of a lot better than you. You lolladins can do a lot of things and your dps sucks, so stick to the damn healing.
So tired of these moron lolladins that keep saying EVERYTHING is a paladin weapon... Warriors need good weapons more than you ffs! They can do ONE thing and that is dps, which they do a hell of a lot better than you. You lolladins can do a lot of things and your dps sucks, so stick to the damn healing.
WARRIORS NEED GOOD WEPS?! THEY GET NEARLLY ALL OF THE GOOD DAMM WEPS! WE DONT WANNA @#%^IN JUST HEAL THE WHOLE TIME THATS WHY WE AINT @#%^ING PRIESTS
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UltimaKnight -70 Human Paldin- aggramar Huzza -54 Troll Warrior- BlackRock
...And shepherds we shall be for thee my lord for thee, for power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command, and we shall flow a river forth unto thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be, Inomini Patri, Et Feeli, Espiritu Sancti.
Edited, May 30th 2007 10:19pm by xXSnakeeyesXx
it has really good offensive stats, but for the glimpse of madness proc from the dark edge is just awesome for pvping.
Check this vid and stfu then. PALAS CAN DPS!
http://fpad.filefront.com/?http://files.filefront.com//;5528939;;/
Sure, every single class in this game can swing a weapon but not every class can heal.
As one of the few classes that can heal, wouldn't your raid members appreciated some heals?
So while you are swinging that Dark Edge of Insanity, other raiders are getting hurt and need heals. All you are doing is adding to the healing load of the raid's "real" healers, the "real" stars that work so hard under appreciated and under rated, while you play the wrong class trying to make a point no one but you cares about.
Instead of wasting our time with videos of DPS-adins, why not make of a video of paladins saving the day as a healing class, healing people, showing shots of your total healing done and healing per second?
Night Elf Hunter
Whisperwind (PvE)
We(pallys) pay good %**king money to play this game, JUST LIKE YOU. Don't tell us what we should or shouldnt do.
I have my epic healing AND DPS gear and I do very well at both.(When I say well I mean Top 5 healing in NAXX(thru 10 Bosses) and top 5 in BG(*yes, after cross servers too), consistently)
Paladins are not warriors. Agreed. No argument.
But can I kick the CRAP out of an epic prot and/or dps warrior in a duel? Plenty of times.
This is dare I say it, A GAME! And it's supposed to be fun. So SCREW the naysayer(edit: overly psychotic hardcore player who thinks anything less then a 7 day raid period 52 weeks a year is a casual noob, player) telling paladins to just fit "their" role. Our role is a hybrid. And if were pretty damn good at all of it, then more power to us. Just because you chose a class that is overly specific in nature, that's your call, not ours.
I pay $15.00 a month to get the MOST out of WOW, not what YOU think I should be doing.
The hell I can't DPS.
They went to 2 pallys and 2 prot warriors
The dps warriors like me get castigator, servo arm and hatchet and we already have our DEoI or ashkandi.
In lots of fights I can go full dps without bothering about agro : fury DW > fury 2H
Na.. just a joke. Give this to an orc warrior and watch him going crazy! Well.. As a horde player I don't give a f**** about paladins.
~DRK AF Complete~
~RNG AF Complete~
~BLM AF Complete~
~BS:89.9+2 | GS:31 | WW:29 | CC:50.8+1 | LC:10 | BC:5 | CK:30~
~ZM [Done] // CoP [Done] // ToAU [28]
Dark Knight: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?70884
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Actually there are several..think about them as combat logistics operatives. In a war... you think about the army and the tanks and bombers doing all the damage... however without support divisions... they don't do squat. The game is similar in its effects in a raid....
(these are not listed in any particualar order)
#1 Auras.... additional resistances armor can make the difference and give your group the edge in a tough fight... its subtle but it counts... concentration aura for casters..Fire resistance aura... +60 FR... enough said.
#2. Immediate emergency healing... ever been on your warrior main tanking and almost ready to die and the pally pops a lay on hands on you to keep you alive and increase your armor by 30% while other healers readjust? You have just been supported and the raid potentially savedby a pally.. NO OTHER CLASS CAN DO THIS... read that again.. NO OTHER CLASS can single heal INSTANTLY for as high an amount as a pally lay on hands.... I don't know about you... but raid savers like that work for me.
#3. And possibly the most important aspect of paladins... JUDGEMENTS.... 2 pallys... one for judgement of wisdom... one for judgement of light.. at the same time you fill the raid with mana and hp... if you can't figure out the value of this.... quit wow and play checkers you are too stupid to actually raid well.
#4 So priests and druids are the only healers and pallys are emergency healers only? I can tell you now I have yet to be outhealed by ANY druid....and frequently outheal most of our priests. Nearly full holy speced with a massive mana pool... illumination and an extremely high crit spell %...(6700 hp 9500 armor and 8500 mana for raids in healing gear) means I am still up.. still healing everyone when other classes are out of mana or dead .... WANDING on a pally's judgement to fill up again...
#5. DI so the raid is wiping on a progression.... and soulstones are down.... a pally drops a DI on a rezr.. and the raid gets up and rebuffs and tries again from that spot instead of a reclear/runback.... this saves 30-45 minutes of your REAL LIFE TIME.... if thats not valuable to you.... I don't know what is
If you disagree with this remember...Yeah.... YOU didn't design the game pal.. YOU are a player.. and if you are an alliance raider... you HAVE been the benificiary of a pally's support.... if you are a horde raider... its been a shammy that has been supporting you in a similar fashion The bottom line is this... there is real value to EVERY class in this game...you think you know what you are talking about when in fact you only make it clear to me that I don't play the game with you.
Gl noob... you'll need it on any high end challenge in this game.
Actually there are several..think about them as combat logistics operatives. In a war... you think about the army and the tanks and bombers doing all the damage... however without support divisions... they don't do squat. The game is similar in its effects in a raid....
(these are not listed in any particualar order)
#1 Auras.... additional resistances armor can make the difference and give your group the edge in a tough fight... its subtle but it counts... concentration aura for casters..Fire resistance aura... +60 FR... enough said.
#2. Immediate emergency healing... ever been on your warrior main tanking and almost ready to die and the pally pops a lay on hands on you to keep you alive and increase your armor by 30% while other healers readjust? You have just been supported and the raid potentially savedby a pally.. NO OTHER CLASS CAN DO THIS... read that again.. NO OTHER CLASS can single heal INSTANTLY for as high an amount as a pally lay on hands.... I don't know about you... but raid savers like that work for me.
#3. And possibly the most important aspect of paladins... JUDGEMENTS.... 2 pallys... one for judgement of wisdom... one for judgement of light.. at the same time you fill the raid with mana and hp... if you can't figure out the value of this.... quit wow and play checkers you are too stupid to actually raid well.
#4 So priests and druids are the only healers and pallys are emergency healers only? I can tell you now I have yet to be outhealed by ANY druid....and frequently outheal most of our priests. Nearly full holy speced with a massive mana pool... illumination and an extremely high crit spell %...(6700 hp 9500 armor and 8500 mana for raids in healing gear) means I am still up.. still healing everyone when other classes are out of mana or dead .... WANDING on a pally's judgement to fill up again...
#5. DI so the raid is wiping on a progression.... and soulstonse are down.... a pally drops a DI on a rezr.. and the raid gets up and rebuffs and tries again from that spot instead of a reclear/runback.... this saves 30-45 minutes of your REAL LIFE TIME.... if thats not valuable to you.... I don't know what is
If you disagree with this remember...Yeah.... YOU didn't design the game pal.. YOU are a player.. and if you are an alliance raider... you HAVE been the benificiary of a pally's support.... if you are a horde raider... its been a shammy that has been supporting you in a similar fashion The bottom line is this... there is real value to EVERY class in this game...you think you know what you are talking about when in fact you only make it clear to me that I don't play the game with you.
Gl noob... you'll need it on any high end challenge in this game.
Warriors that takes this weapon takes it for PVP.
a Shaman / Paladin thats takes it use it for PVP , whats the difference?
and if you say that you are going to do pve damage with 2hander. dont give me that bullsh*t. if you are going to do serious dmg in pve, it's Fury spec. There's no chance that a 2hander can meet up with dual wield fury spec in pve damage.
Enough said ? :O
the simple reason being, a warrior cant shed aggro, therefore they can get all the nifty weapons etc, but they will have to hold back, because the tank simply wont generate more aggro
i can do the same dps with severance as somebody using the swords off kelthuzad, simply because he will overaggro if he tries to do more dmg than the tanks aggro can handle, making him die, and me still dpsing :)
there are 2 sides to the story, imo the first 1-2 2handers that are supreme for warriors should be warrior prio, the rest sheer FFA
dual wield = 2h dps, u cant do more dps than the tank can hold aggro :)
nomall
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/9782/severanceep0.jpg
BigTimmy:lvl 54 night elf warrior-kilrogg
BigTimmy:lvl 19 Orc Hunter-windhammer
2handers ARE NOT raid progression weapons. If a warrior wants to be a tank, he will spec prot and if a warrior wants to DPS he SHOULD(and will be, as all warriors one day realize) be DW fury. Blizzard
made DW fury the supreme warrior DPS spec and they did so intentionally... why would blizzard do this? simple... So hybrid classes (pallies, shaman, and druids) dont get completely reemed on PVP gear. Its that simple, blizzard took away any reason why a warrior would have priority.
melee huntar ftw!!1
http://ctprofiles.net/3542401
Anyway, this weapon will make a nice addition to my PvP collection, because that's what it truly is. We paladins recognize that warriors should get first dibs on certain weapons (Ashkhandi was warrior priority), but after some of your tanks get some nice killing sticks, it's nice to be able to bid on such an item and have fun with it. Plus, all of the warriors in my guild either have Ashkhandi or Dark Edge of Insanity and don't want to spend their dkp on Severrance, for what amounts to a minor upgrade for them and are holding out for Corrupted Ashbringer and Might of Menethil down the road. Hell, we killed Gluth for the first time today and a fellow paladin won Claymore of Uhholy Might. You know why he won? CAUSE HE HAD THE MOST DKP RETARD AND NONE OF THE WARRIORS WANTED IT.
im a 60 paladin...sh*t armor...but im still doin pretty good lol, took down a GM fury warrior to half health in a duel that had about 2 naxx items
Nekura, 60 Female Undead Warrior
acctually u can give it even to hunter , since most of the people are greedy. but even hunter is going to make DMG, which is most unknown word or feeling to a paladin. "joke"
but dont cry, when a warrior gets some items with heal on it ^^. thats is just game and nothing else. if u have fun with it, get it.
its acctually based on a system. if u have ffa u have to live with it.
also, i'm pretty sure that any guild good enough for naxx wouldn't let a hunter bid on this...
also, i'm pretty sure that any guild good enough for naxx wouldn't let a hunter bid on this...
Truth. Plain and simple.
Loping- Level 45 Gnome Rogue - Twisting Nether
But what do you care? The best DPS Warriors in my raids are DW-Fury. In fact, that seems to be a trend in most guilds as well. As a Priest, I rarely (if ever) have to heal the smart DPS Warriors, because they're not spamming HS for 1.5-2k a whack. I let the 2H-Fury Warriors die, because they consistently pull agro off the tanks too often.
Case in point, Warriors and Palladins have a right to this weapon. End of story.
But I have to add something here... I'm really sick of Wars 2H-dps'ing. Yes, it does help the raid out, but at what cost? I see dps wars pulling Agro off our tanks all the time, because they spam HS like it's going out of style. I guess most Wars don't realize that HS is meant for maintaining agro, more-so than just an ability to spam. It's much easier for DW-Fury wars to maintain high dps with little agro-pulling than 2H-Fury wars with comparable gear, because their HS's don't hit for 1-2k.
As a Priest, I wish I could slap some sense into our tanks. I'm trying to do that, by not healing the idiot 2H-Fury wars in our raids. Hopefully the more they die, the more they learn to either sword+board it, or use DW. You all should consider that, before screaming about who this weapon should go to... "If I pull agro, are my priests going to continuously heal my dumb ass?"
Spamming HS mindlessly is a dumbass thing to do that gets you killed no matter what you're using, once you've geared up. Spending Rage on Cleave makes me cry, but on some bosses it's the only way to stay alive.
But I have to add something here... I'm really sick of Wars 2H-dps'ing. Yes, it does help the raid out, but at what cost? I see dps wars pulling agro off our tanks all the time, because they spam HS like it's going out of style. I guess most Wars don't realize that HS is meant for maintaining agro, more-so than just an ability to spam. It's much easier for DW-Fury wars to maintain high dps with little agro-pulling than 2H-Fury wars with comparable gear, because their HS's don't hit for 1-2k.
As a Priest, I wish I could slap some sense into our tanks. I'm trying to do that, by not healing the idiot 2H-Fury wars in our raids. Hopefully the more they die, the more they learn to either sword+board it, or use DW. You all should consider that, before screaming about who this weapon should go to.
But I have to add something here... I'm really sick of Wars 2H-dps'ing. Yes, it does help the raid out, but at what cost? I see dps wars pulling agro off our tanks all the time, because they spam HS like it's going out of style. I guess most Wars don't realize that HS is meant for maintaining agro, more-so than just an ability to spam. It's much easier for DW-Fury wars to maintain high dps with little agro-pulling than 2H-Fury wars with comparable gear, because their HS's don't hit for 1-2k.
As a Priest, I wish I could slap some sense into our tanks. I'm trying to do that, by not healing the idiot 2H-Fury wars in our raids. Hopefully the more they die, the more they learn to either sword+board it, or use DW. You all should consider that, before screaming about who this weapon should go to... "If I pull agro, are my priests going to continuously heal my dumb ass?"
But I have to add something here... I'm really sick of Wars 2H-dps'ing. Yes, it does help the raid out, but at what cost? I see dps wars pulling Agro off our tanks all the time, because they spam HS like it's going out of style. I guess most Wars don't realize that HS is meant for maintaining agro, more-so than just an ability to spam. It's much easier for DW-Fury wars to maintain high dps with little agro-pulling than 2H-Fury wars with comparable gear, because their HS's don't hit for 1-2k.
As a Priest, I wish I could slap some sense into our tanks. I'm trying to do that, by not healing the idiot 2H-Fury wars in our raids. Hopefully the more they die, the more they learn to either sword+board it, or use DW. You all should consider that, before screaming about who this weapon should go to... "If I pull agro, are my priests going to continuously heal my dumbass?"
But I have to add something here... I'm really sick of Wars 2H-dps'ing. Yes, it does help the raid out, but at what cost? I see dps wars pulling Agro off our tanks all the time, because they spam HS like it's going out of style. I guess most Wars don't realize that HS is meant for maintaining agro, more-so than just an ability to spam. It's much easier for DW-Fury wars to maintain high dps with little agro-pulling than 2H-Fury wars with comparable gear, because their HS's don't hit for 1-2k.
As a Priest, I wish I could slap some sense into our tanks. I'm trying to do that, by not healing the idiot 2H-Fury wars in our raids. Hopefully the more they die, the more they learn to either sword+board it, or use DW. You all should consider that, before screaming about who this weapon should go to... "If I pull agro, are my priests going to continuously heal my dumb ass?"
they have enough to distribute loot to the members.
It's not gonna help sitting here arguing, it's different from guild to guild.
So just focus on your own guild and how you raid.
Also, there were a nice post saying that Paladins should sometimes be allowed to roll on neat weapons aswell, not just for DPS, but for the main object of every game ; Have fun.
But as I wrote above; It's different from guild to guild.
Regards
- Zerwantes
43 Str
2 Crit
vs.
46 Sta
20 Str
2 Crit
For a Weapon that's 8-9 item levels higher (MoM, according to its listed 95.3 DPS) the stats of Kel's mace are either unimpressive or, in Severance's case, mighty nice.
Nekura, 60 Female Undead Warrior
All i really have to say is, I play a warrior, and I dont see the whole "warrior weapon" vs. "pala weapon" discussion here.
If you want to go dps with your warrior, respecc DW fury. It DOES do more dps and you have no reason to whine about Paladins looting this.
If by any other reason you want this over a paladin, it's for PvP - which quite frankly isn't going to help your guild PvE progress anyway.
And last - it's about time we respect the fact that Paladins loot these kind of PvP weapons for the same reason as we warriors do: To have FUN, NOT to DPS. Once again, if you wanna DPS, go fury DW.
Chae
All i really have to say is, I play a warrior, and I dont see the whole "warrior weapon" vs. "pala weapon" discussion here.
If you want to go dps with your warrior, respecc DW fury. It DOES do more dps and you have no reason to whine about Paladins looting this.
If by any other reason you want this over a paladin, it's for PvP - which quite frankly isn't going to help your guild PvE progress anyway.
And last - it's about time we respect the fact that Paladins loot these kind of PvP weapons for the same reason as we warriors do: To have FUN, NOT to DPS. Once again, if you wanna DPS, go fury DW.
Chae
thank you chae finally someone gives a damm
Huzza -54 Troll Warrior- BlackRock
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/duffman/emicyvgzlx3.jpg
LOL
All i really have to say is, I play a warrior, and I dont see the whole "warrior weapon" vs. "pala weapon" discussion here.
If you want to go dps with your warrior, respecc DW fury. It DOES do more dps and you have no reason to whine about Paladins looting this.
If by any other reason you want this over a paladin, it's for PvP - which quite frankly isn't going to help your guild PvE progress anyway.
And last - it's about time we respect the fact that Paladins loot these kind of PvP weapons for the same reason as we warriors do: To have FUN, NOT to DPS. Once again, if you wanna DPS, go fury DW.
Chae"
Dude you are retarded....end of story
ps. Check my weapon
http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?1606611
Edited, Aug 15th 2006 at 12:25pm EDT by aventoss
WARRIORS NEED GOOD WEPS?! THEY GET NEARLLY ALL OF THE GOOD DAMM WEPS! WE DONT WANNA @#%^IN JUST HEAL THE WHOLE TIME THATS WHY WE AINT @#%^ING PRIESTS
Huzza -54 Troll Warrior- BlackRock
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/duffman/emicyvgzlx3.jpg
LOL
<Avarice>
Albino Tauren Warrior
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