Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
At the risk of stating the obvious, Improper Entry (ie: sneaking across the border) is illegal. No one has to "criminalize" it. It's already a crime.
It's been previously handled as a civil matter.
Oh. I see. You're confused.
"Criminalization" refers to Improper Entry being treated as a criminal offense with jail time.
Not all criminal offenses are punished with jail time. Your problem is you are using the wrong terminology. Or, more accurately, just using the terminology incorrectly.
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This was rarely the case previously because it was treated as a civil matter, handled with a fine. Civil matters against the government are not referred to as a "crime"; you are not a "criminal" for getting a littering fine or failing to mow your lawn or filing your taxes late.
Again. You're the one who used the term "criminalizing". I'm questioning the accuracy of your use of the term.
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There is a reason why we have a criminal justice system as a subset of the overall justice system. This actually make a significant difference since you have the Constitutional right to legal representation in a criminal justice case, but not in a civil trial (even against the government).
Er? That's great, but not relevant here. Criminal justice can have different penalties applied. In this case, the penalty *may* be jail time and/or *may* be a fine (or may be nothing at all, except, you know deportation). That does not make it not a crime.
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Therefore, I said that "Trump decided to implement a 'zero tolerance' policy and criminalize Improper Entry" to which you got all confused and flustered and word vomited a meaningless slurry of whatever you found on National Review Online in the past hour.
Sigh. You're the one putting your own word (criminalize) in Trump's decision. He didn't "criminalize" it. It was already a crime. Whatever decisions were made with regards to tougher enforcement and/or punishment are not the same as making something a crime which was not previously.
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Entering the US illegally is a criminal act. Period. It's a violation of federal statute.
So is violating the Equal Credit Opportunity Act. You do realize that, say, being fined under the Equal Credit Opportunity Act means you committed an unlawful act but it doesn't make you a criminal, right? No? Too complex for you? Ok then.
What does "make you a criminal" mean here? You're mixing terminology. That has zero legal meaning Joph. You're just doing BS rhetoric at this point.
Here. Let me make this really
simple for you:
US statute wrote:
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penaltiesAny alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
Read the bolded bits. The statute applies both a criminal penalty *and* a civil penalty. Either or both of them may be applied. Choosing to apply a given penalty or not does not make it "not a crime" or suddenly "make it a crime". It's already a crime, with a defined penalty, which may include anything from no penalty, to a fine, to jail time.
What you mean to say is that Trump is imposing harsher penalties for those committing the crime, not that he's making it a crime in the first place. But that doesn't sound as sinister, so you say he's criminalizing it instead. Which is BS.
Find me something anywhere that actually says that illegal entry into the US is not a crime, and we can talk. You can't do that though, because it's simply not true. It was a crime long before Trump took office. Stop playing word games.